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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19860211HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 11,1986 i:00P. M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES: ROLL CALL:Georgeann Waggaman, Mona Frost,Marge Riley, Pat O"Bryan,Mary Martin,Nick Pasquarella,new members,Bill Poss as a regular member,and Charles Cunniffee as an altenate. Steve Burstein and Bill Drueding. Excused for the February 25th meeting will be Georgeann Waggaman and Mona Frost. Mary Martin would like to apply for the regular seat on HPC,from the alternate, and advertize for the alternate opening. OLD BUSINESS PUBLIC HEARING-ESPRIT 506 E. Hyman-Harry Teague Georgeann Waggaman opens the Public Hearing: Nick Pasquarella steps down, and takes a seat in the audience. Teague said that since he was doing the bottom of the windows he did not have anything ready in advance for the members. Showing drawings to the members to pass around to see. A color drawing, with the kick plates drawn in,he stated that there are three techical drawings that shown the actually composition,of the base of the window. Basically its a jam,the black thing, the existing cast iron column, and the tratementon either side, so there is two inches,of frame exposed,and then another ich of stoppers,on either side of the existing cast iron window. Geogeann Waggaman said that would make the windows beefie. Going over the drawing: The grades can not be changed,or the design in that portion. Teaque said that it is brick and sandstone,and case iron columns, and the existing ceils, and since the last meeting,Esprit try to lease the restruant under neath , but has been leased to someone else. So the windows below this grade need to be left intacted. Discussion continued. The material will be painted and could be,paneling, with a striped texture ot gruved,, the applicant would made it wood if, please HPC. It was not orgianlly on the building but they will place it if HPC wants,as part of the kick plate. Jon Busch said there is a slight discrepancy between the drawings. Asked to point out the differnce that he sees in the drawings. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 11,1986 l:00P. M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES: Busch said the one shows the ceil below the stone peice. And the other shows above the stone peice. Showing photo's of the building perhaps from 1932 , and many changes had been made to the building by then Teague stated. There was galss below the windows as shown in the photo's. The glass panels below the windows was shown in one photo. Stating that two of the stone ceils were doorways at one time, and the orginal treatment of the building is different than now. The question is if the applicant being Teague for his client Esprit do a complete restortation,or are they dealing with one store that is going in this building. Reviewing the guidelines of BPC. Teague, said if the building has to be restored completely these frames the applicant is putting in now, can be unbolted and taken out. There will not be any stone cut and the applicant is being carefully of the placement of windows there they were orginal. Teague stated that at one time the glass was 1/4 inch 11 by 10 feet, and that is not allowed legally now. It needs to be a 1/2 inch thick,that would wieght a lot more which would be a structure problem, the way the applicant design it you will not be able to tell that it is wood or metal. These are custom made sach and will be painted that have soft edges. These will be steel and can be done in the field. Bill Drueding asked,this is glass here pointing to the drawing, then the applicant has a roll out canopy that folds back in, and then you have galss under neath that? When the canopy is rolled in, this glass will not be broke up at all except that peice,it will be all glass. Teague said there is now 11 feet vertical of glass, and there plan is to have slightly less. Drueding said what is now on the building is partialy painted. Teague said it would be like the orgianl peice of glass but two feet shorter at the top. The kick plate will be slightly higher,these peice of galss will be smaller and broken up,than the existing peice. Drueding said that it looks broken up because of the awning, here and when the awning is roll back in,they do not just fold up. 2 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 11,1986 i:00P.M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES: Georgeann Waggaman said that the awnings will have to have the awnings down on both sides½ Drueding ...not at night. Pat O'Bryan said seating at the Ute City Banque. Dreuding thats where you will see the light. Teague said they probablly will be up at at night. Basically why they are making the awnings roll up is that they do not fair well in the snow. It would be much cheaper for them to make fitted awnings,and happy to do it. Then the awnnings would be there all the time then. and the window would be broken up,it is not the way it is in the plans right now,then the problem is they would have to get an encroachement for that, and with HPC support they might be able to do that,but his point is that fitted awnings, is a different situation, than a rolled up awnings, does not require an encroachement. Mary Martin...what about the frame? Teague...the part the awning rolls up into,is part of the mullian right here, and when the arms fit,flush inset into the mullian inside the window,that they offer the least amount of intrustion. When rolled up the awning is protected is a steel box. There are nowpronblems with fitted awnings,they do not roll up in the snow,so they get saged, when the snow sits on them they belly out with a lot of snow, Mary Martin said that in the winter with the sun is when they need the protection of the awning for the south window. The question it seems ..is how much of the time will the awnings be down and how much up, and what seasons will the awnings be used. Georgeann Waggaman asked? Teague...the only way would can guartee that the awnings stay down all winter is to require that it be a fitted awning. Georgeann Waggaman down. Teague yes... Teague is showning is not a terrible building does have than you are designing it to have the awnings the plans with it down, the line he is showning, important line. When the awnings are down the important feeling. The building does not have 3 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 11,1986 I:00P. M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES: awnings right now. What we are talking about is that the possibility of awnings being down,that is an impovement. They will look better down, and feel better down, but they will go up at night or when there is a heavy snow. The awnings will look better if they are retractable. And allowing the owner to add his discrusion when they are up and down. Drueding said that the applicant will be dealing with an encroachment license anyway,because of the stairs,any changes to the stair will require an encroachement license, and could include those awnings,if the applicant wants to at the same time. The Aspen Block ,Don Seigle owner,was asked from Lillie Garfield about placing awing on the building of the Cos Bar and La Cefe, so that the building would look more uniform. Seigle said they have wanted to do that and in the winter the people need protection from the snow fall. She felt it was important for the awnings to be down in the winter. Jon Busch retractable or otherwise the awnings have a 1/2 pipe or 3/4 pipe for the arms,and that is small, the design that Teague has done on the window frames is nice, that the arms retract into the window frames, you will not know the building has awnings when they are up. Bill Drueding(public) You are having a window up to 18 inches, and at night or 5 o'clock when you roll the awnings up, you have no control of the interior light, that can light the whole corner with the interior lights,and will change the whole area. He believes that the awnings should be fixed so that a mimuim level of light goes on the street. Those are big windows. And it will be to much light. Georgeann Waggaman said that pertictular intersection dies at night, and if it was bright and activy,it would make the intersection more alive and Liveable. Keren,the three corners have express concern,they are going to melt into the sidewalk, and that corner will become much to bright, for the other corners. 4 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 11,1986 i:00P. M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES: Georgeann Waggaman said there is no control what happens in side the building, HPC can make a recommendation. Charels Cunniffee what about the mall committee. What level of lighting are you doing inside as Bill Poss, low voltage? Teague the emit level is seven foot candles,which is barely enough to reach. All the lights are spots and things, they light an object up to 200 foot candles,you will never see the source of the light,bascially the objects will be lite up, but the ambieant foot level, and the light level will be seven foot candels. It will be very dark. Bill Poss said the Chitwood building they had planned on the ambinant lighting comming out, and they used low voltage lighting and there is very little ambinant lighting that comes out through the glass,if they use low voltage then no lighting will come out through the glass. Drueding said the City just finish the sample block to increas the lighting, at the other corner, teague said they are working with the city on that corner on what will happen. Teague said the sample block many people say it is much to bright, and he agrees with them. Drueding,said the applicant is dealing with if the city has ther lights to bright, and the applicant is not dealing with wether theirs will be too bright on their building. The only control would be the break from the fixed awning, for all that light source will not come out tof the buiding. Mary Martin said we are not talking about the business that is inside, which in this case will be a lot of lights on bright clothes,this is an old building that needs to be preserved, in its present state, and Voted against the low kick plate, and against metal windows, and wanted wood windows,and she would vote 5 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 11,1986 l:00P. M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES: now to have a permate awning,to break the light, the Drug store has a differnet kind of lighting. The city might need to have a requirement on how much light comes out of a building. HPC can recommend and give restriction as HPC feels best,for a very fine old building that needs preserving. Stated Mary Martin. Georgeann Waggamn said that perhaps the city should state how many foot candles can come out from a building. Mary Martin said that Best of all Worlds, which is another beautiful right across the street. When the board sees drawings, like that which are contemporairy look, and when see sees the brass poles and awning why was it every allow. She would like to keep things as close to the orgianl state as possible, and materials. Charles Cunniffee said after reading the by laws, that HPc should try and keep as much to the orgianl as possible, but that the light level seems to be exceptable, and thinks the building will be done tastefully. Paul Taddune, illumations is address in the sign code, indirectly Ther is an element in that in the city ordiances, but not as direct as this board is discussing, in terms as the a~ount of light that comes out of the window, Drueding has been active in the town, in making sure there are not fluoence signs, lighting is indirect, there is concern, not in HPC regularation, but in the city sign regualtions. Mona Frost asked if the lighting would be on 24 hours a day? or Will it be less at certain times. The new gallary would be an example of light, and that is over by the Wheeler Opera House, that is the type of illumation that Esprit is going to get. That is the same type of system, with a low voltage spot lights, and so on on paintings,you do not see the light sources, there is no light that comes out of the windows, and fact you might be upset because no light comes out of the windows. Teague stated. It will not look like a supermarket, where 6 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 11,1986 I:00P. M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES: the flourence lights all bank up on the ceiling ,they will have a grid with theathical lights, that come down and shine on objects, the idea is a dark background with a high lighted object. In terms of the light on the street you will not notice that said Teague. Teague said this meeting is about the bottom of the window, every thing else has been approved. Georgeann Waggaman said that lighting had not been talked baout before. Teague, he understands that but every thing else has been approved. Nick Pasqarella - Public, Teague asked that Pasquarella not talk, because of the meeting where in the vote Pasquarells was present ,Pasquarella did leave the room at that point. Jon Busch, it does not seem to be a bad compropmise at all, the question is that the one drawing is slightly differnent, than the detail drawning. In the one drawing its shows the kick plates the glass actually starting at the level of the stone,and the detail drawning it shows the window frame starting at the top of the stone, that would be 4 or 5 inches differences, and will have an effect on the over all appearence,whether it is none this way or that way. 1-exhibit-A 2-exbibit-b (onion skin) Teague said that the existing ones do not line up,with any of the stone band , the current level of the ceil, and does not line up. Georgeann Waggaman asked Teague which one is the one he plans to use? Teaque...the one that is actuall is the larger scale, but the stone is not drawn right, the stone should be drawn higher, so it correspones to the glass in that picture. Georgeann Waggaman clarifies, then the stone would come to the top edge of the mullian. Teague said it does,and both of the drawings are the same. Teague said he was not sure it is the height of the mullian off the sidewalk, what may not be exactual right... 7 MINUTES: HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 11,1986 l:00P. M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS Pat OB'ryan Teague said west side. asked if the height is 26 iches on both sides? it gets higher, it goes up to about four feet on the Teagues said the stone heights are correct,it is 18" from the stone sill, and than 8 inches from the sidewalk. In one place the sidewalk is 8 inches below the stone sill. Busch said that the glass that starts at the top of the stone,in terms of the estic balance he thinks it will look better, to have the window frame which would be a contrasting color to the stone work,it will be set off as trim to the building. It would look at lot better if the frame started at the top of the stone, and consistance around the building. discussion; Steve Bursein asked about a question, if the kick plate should be wood or not, clarifed at the November 12 meeting, HPC wood would be desirbale, but the committee had not insisted on that. Georgeann Wagggaman likes the detailing that Teague has,the height in direction to go with the height in relationship to the sandstone, she has not decided. I would make more since to have wood down there, because it is a more historic material. And the awnings...she does not know. maybe a straw vote should be taken. Charles Cunniffee said that hPC should recommend that the applicant talk to the Mall committee about the lighting, that there concern, then it will not be a issue for HPC anymore. Georgeann Waggaman said that HPc can make a recommendation that the applicant keep the lighting should be keep fairly quite. Georgeann Waggaman said there are three issue to be addressed; Lighting which has never been discussed. Material in the kick plate. Retractable awnings or not. The memebrs said they need the minutes for they can decided of the height level of kickpplate in consideration. Mary Martin moved to accept that the kickplate design of 18