HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19840410RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Historic Preservation Committee regular meeting April 10, 1984 Chambers
Present were Georgeann Waggman, Nick Pasquarella, Terry End, Connie McCrudden,
Gretchen Greenwood, Colette Penne, Bill Drueding.
New
Members
Nick Pasquarella asked that the record show that Mona Frost
has an excused absences.
The meeting opened to roll call.
The new members to the HPC board were introduced to the other
members, Zoe Compton, wh6 will be a regular member and Mary
Martin who will be an alternate to this board, Colette Penne
said that the procedures is that the regular new member can
vote on new business, the alternate can vote when a regular
member is missing from the meeting.
The minutes w~e approved with the spelling of quarry corrected
by Nick ~asquarella, seconded by Connie Mc Crudden, all in favor
of the motion, motion carried.
Marquand
House
Old Business:
Colette Penne said for the Marquand House this is more of a
question of demolishion than to set a precendent and
de designations, being this is just a notibte structure, but
the interior is deterriated and the barn wood would not be
considered historic, and this should be looked at with the goal
in mind for the community is it keeping the structure , because
it is that good, or that the property owner should be able
to say that T know T voluteered designated, but however there
is a changetcircumstance has forced me to demolish it, and
especially concering the shape this house is in, and it
has never been a excellent structure.
The public hearing was opened by Georgeann Waggman,
Gretchen Greenwood said she feels as she did at the last meeting,
because this house has been added on to it, and has been
updated so much, that it has lost its notible building,
because it is no longer a single miners cabin.
Nick Pasquaretla said from his understanding it is to dete~ne
or not if this house, it is historically fixed as it is in
some people minds, HPC is not taking this house of the
designated structures list, HPC has agreed it is a pretty
run down miners cabin, H~C has looked at it, and discussed it
a preliminary vote has been taken, and at the owners request
that they be allowed to take it down, This committee does not make a
effort to keep open spaces, or not to let things to build up
in any particular area, the house is notible but it is not
outstanding;
Mary Martin stated that this is precious building, but that
some portion of it if allowed to be demolished should be
preserved. JP Marquand bought the house in the forty's, and
is a famous author, and the addition was added in the fifty's,
Colette Penne reminded the members that Lydia Marquand does
have a property right, and she is asking this board if this
structure is so important to the City of Aspen, that she can
not change her mind, and remove it. This board has to look
at the exterior of structures, the house is trashed, the miners
cabin is about 800 square feet, its been cover with barn wood,
which is not an historical treatment, one whole side
has been opened up to do extension that has done in the
fifty's. 2/3 of this house is new. Colette Penne exp~.~ the
the way the house became designated and the procedure involved.
Georgeann Waggman remind Mary Martin this was a Public Hearing
and the a noticement was published in the Aspen Times prior
to this meeting.
Gideon Kaufman spoke to the members on behalf of his client
Lydia Marquand, The issue before HPC is not a zoing issue, or
how big of land is, or what is going to happen to it, the
situation is a building that sits on a site, it is a notible
structure, as such the city would not have any authority over
this if Lydia had not sign the card a numbers of years ago
to designated, now looking at this retrospec at the condition
of the building, Lydi~ has decided that it would be best
to no longer keep that property designated, that the examine
the material in the code, why the city designates a building
to start with, and if it should remain historic. Gideon
read to the members parts of the code relating to the critia
for historic designations, al~ giving a list of things that
are wrong with the building, inadequate foundation, all the
floors go in different directions, the kitchen is out dated,
size of the rooms all fail to meet the code, heights, size
of the rooms, and very serious p~blems with the electrical
as builders have stated before, the roof leaks in so many places
that it would have to be replaced completely, and 800 of the
2,000 square feet has any historical sufficent;
Colette Penne said as a staff person that advises this board,
she loo~ at alot of the questions, and that any board with,
historic preservation power, is balancing a person personal
property rights against the rights of the community,
and the discisions this board takes, the board should stand
behind, and s~mDn~enough if have to be;to go to court. If this
was an excellent designated house, but it is not, then the
decision would not to be allowed to be demolished. The condition
of the Marquand house, and that only 800 square feet are
considered historicrare in bad shape.
Mary Martin, speaking as a neighbor against the removal of this
house, restated that the portion that is historic should be
reinstated on the lot else where.
Gretchen Greenwood said there are some solutions to this,
than just tearing it down,the property rights have to be thought
of, even if iris not discussed, whether a building should be
maintain as such for its historical signifances; There
could be a possibility recommend to the owners, that
someone be allowed to take the cabin portion out of that
site, and locate it somewhere else, where that cabin can be
maintain.
Colette Penne said that if that should happen, then she would
like to see the barn wood taken off and a type of orginal
siding be put on. This board has to find with the ha~in~with
the criteria of HPC have been maintained, and the form
in the packet is the standard inventory form, and is a blanket
statement on 200 inventory sheets. An as in this case HPC has
to look at every individual structure, the Hallam lake district is a
protinal historic district, but is not now.
Nick Pasquarella said he hopes this will not be another Koch
Lumber Yard deal, where all that material was safed, yet
who knows if it will ever be used.
Georgeann Waggaman said she had a comment that she would like
the members to keep in mind, that history is not only the 1890's
in a way we have a charm lng building that was adapted,and
shows the way people adapted in the 40's and 50's; It has
had a reasonible historic person who has lived in ~% since,
and we do think we have to consider that history keeps on
going. On a notible structure, the only reason we have any chance
to look at it, is because that person has cDoosen let us have
that chance,that gives us the right to discuss it, gives
it the right to go to a public hearing, gives the right for
all the neighbors to go and voice their thoughts, Gives HPC
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
HPC cont. April 10, 1984 p.3
the right to try and talk this person out of it, if HPC
goes in that direction,but ultim~tel~ that person has the
right to there own choice.
Terry End said she would like to add that maybe HPC can
form some kind of a recommendation with the historical part
of the house,recommending that it might be moved, and
maybe it could be part of the motion, that perhaps with
the new house that the, if it worked out, the design be
part of the new design, but it would have to be moved on the
property.
Gideon Kaufman said there is a real problem with that, the
building code situation, the size of the house, the house is
old.
Gretchen Greenwood said if there is an interested group that
would like to have that structure moved that HPC would
recommend that they be allowed to do so. But that she would
never vote to have that building moved on the same site as it
is now.
M~ry Martin, said their house is listed on the designated
historic inventory, and they had ask that it not be, but they
did not have a choice, she knows it is a different level of
structure, and the reason it was a different level of
structure is the Martin's made it so, and'now to do any thing
to the house, you have to go through this b~ard, even for the
windows.
Georgeann Waggaman suggested that we take everbody's thoughts
into consideration, that we allow this motion to pass,
and in the motion that we say we are really against having
the house a lost to the community, but that we aknowledge
a person property rights, and that we would recommend moving
or what ever form of preservation that is at all possible.
Gretchen Greenwood moved to approve of the demolition of this
building, with a recommendation~hat if there is a local group
that is interested in having th!s buildingtthat the owners
might agree to give this structure to the group, that
the miners cabin might be maintained on another site not on
this site. seconded by Connie Mc Crudden;
Discussion: Terry End brouqht up that the suggestion of
Georgeann Wagg~K~an had notbeenaddress in the motion, that
HPC condon the demo~tion of older buildings, but doing
what we think is the right thing in each case.
Gretchen Greenwood admended her motion to state the approval
of the demolition of the Lydia Marquard residence, and that
the HPC does not encourage the de,ruction of notible
structures, but in this case, HPC feels practical and necess~
and that HPC encourage the owner if approached by a local
group to preserve it on another' site if possible, but it is not
a condition. Seconded by Connie Mc Crudden, all in favor,
motion carried.
Nick Pasquarella said for the record at the historical society
meeting he will bring this item up, and could be available for
moving.
Next on the agenda was the ~inal consideration and review
of the proposed addition to the Nunn residence,at 208 E. Hopkins.
The public hearing was opened, Colette Penne speaking for the
Nunn
208 E.
Hopkins
applicate Shirly Nunn~ Putting the site plan up for the
members to review again. Cole6te Penne said that Sirley
is on the next board of ajustments to see if she can get
her variamce for her car port prosition in line as it is
shown on this drawings now,if not it will be as it is now
which is not quite in line with the side of the house, but
off set a little bit. HPC had asked that we be given
a sample of the roofing material, it is a grey asphalt shingle
and the color scheme HPC had no problem with at the other
meeting. They have added from last time some windows, and
a flat sky light window, that they did not have in the drawings
last time. five windows, but they are sky lights of sorts.
The windows are flat, and instead of doing dormers, this
will add light.
Gretchen Greenwood, said that she thought sky lights on victorians
was a good approach for up dating them, theses sky lights
can not be seen against the grey roofing, and has no problem
with this.
Geor~eann Wag~aman said HPC did not
not to have a sky light;
allow Channel 2
Colette Penne said there is justification for that this house,
there is a lo cation consideration for one thing, but the
nunn house is keeping with its neighborhood, but if some where
else as big as the addition is, the houses around the Nunn house
are all built out., the front facade is being maintained , the
addition is all towards the rear..
Gretchen Greenwood said when the members voted on channel 2's
sky light it was going to be visible from Main Street.
Colette Penne said channel 2 was allowed to put in glass
in the upper peak house to get the light into the attic
where they wanted to use as office space.
Joyce Hatton of channel 2 said this has work out perfectly.
Bill Drueing told the me~bers that on the board of Adjustment
application there is also, they are going to redo an exsisiting
fence, and add some fencing to.
Georgeann Waggaman said she would like to look at it if it is
put in the front only.
Colette Penne said on some research she has done, that some
victorians did have sky lights, Thomas Jefferson place at
Montcello, and in talking to The Old House Journal, and in
talking to them said that sky lights were sometime used of
historic structures, but that they can not use alumimun
sky lights, but they can be flat ones, and no bubbles or
P~ramid but that they were often used over stairways, bathrooms.
Georgeann Waggaman said that if HPC goes along with sky lights
then there should be a major policy decision, we have set it
the policy for the most part the other way;
Colette Penne said that each sky light and placement, and location
has to be considered.
Terry End remind the board from the letter recieved, that the
windows in front will be changed also the window now
is one solid peice, and they are adding the two slender panels
to the side;
Georgeann Waggaman said that she would say that channel two
could have their sky light if this goes to a vote and is
allowed.
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
HPC cont. April 10, 1984 P.5
Terry End moved to approve the final addition to the Nunn
residence at 208 E. Hopkins including the addition of the
glass panels to the front window, including the addition of
the glass windows on the west roof of the addition to the house,
and to the fence on the west side house. Seconded by Nick
Pasquarella. vote called , all in favor, Against Georgeann
Waggaman, motion carried.
New
Business.
Satelite
Dish
Channel 2
Joyce Hatton channel 2 Placement of satelite dish on Main
Street, HPC had request Channel 2, move the satelite dish
eight or nine months ago, and since then found out that
the idea of the placement was not able to be done, They
have come up with another solution now for the placement on
the dish.
The satelite dish was at one time going to be placed on
a pole eighteen feet in the air, in the back of the building.
Joyce Hatton said she has the approval of landlords at
the Ft~ador~ which is right ~cross the street, to put a metalliac
mesh screen dish, on the roof, Channel 2 has found a dish now
that is twelve feet, and the placement will be leased by
Channel 2 in the back, and being the dish is see through will
not show as much as the solid one , and the dish will angle
back, on the second floor on the flat part of the roof, and
there is two peaks on either side, back part of the middle with
the dish angled facing the equador the highest part will be
nine feet.
Bill Drueding said the height limit is 25 feet and 5 feet is
allow for antennas.
Joyce Hatton said she felt they would be under the height limit.
Mary Martin said she felt that the n~ighbors should be notified
a month in advance, that this people live in Houston.
Nick Pasquarella said this is a Public Hearing and has been
published as such.
This is like the dish at Ruthie restaurant and Colette Penne
said a site visit might be needed.
Gretchen Greenwood said that HPC follow a certain procedure
and it does not vary from that,and it is not fair to ask
the applicate to vary from this form of procedure.
Nick Pasquarella asked that a rendering be brought to HPC,
showing the size and placement on the building.
'Georg.eann Waggaman said that letter have been request from the
neighbors in a few cases, where the changes were in the back
and the only people involved where the two houses, and that
applicate was asked to bring in those people saying what he
wish to do with his house, was okay. He took all the r~s(niblity
of sending the letters out, with a form letter they had to
sign, and send it back. This is a special case, and it should
be up to Joyce Hatton to get in contact with the neighbor, and
get permission from them to put the satelite on the roof,
and this could be a possibility of handling this problem.
Zoe Compton said each of the items that have come before the
board today are each individual, and have to be treat that
way,The board should have a drawing, and handle it from there.
Terry End said the dish should of never been put in the
Historic District in the first place.
Terry End asked why the logo has not been painted over at
the request of HP~ along time ago;
Joyce Hatton said that she did not realize the dish is
buffed and buffed with almost like glass that during the
winter,the places where they have a lot of snow, it slips
and if it had been repainted thesnow would stick on it,
and would cause interferences, and the manufacturer put
the logo on, there was nothing that could be done, channel
2 did not want anything on the dish.
Colette Penne said she even would be happy to call the
neighbor in Texas, if the board wishes, and see what they say.
even if these people say they do not want to see the dish
from there house, that might not convence this board, it
should not be there. If this board decided to have the dish
placed somewhere,if the property owner then does not like
the dicision of this board, then it is between Joyce Hatton
and the property owner, and the courts are there outlet.
Joyce Hatton said this solution cuts down on alot of the
wirers, and has a lot of advantages.
Nick Pasquarella said he advises this board that to generate
other methods of advising the public, of the action being brought
before this board, if an applicate wants write letters, to the
neighbors, it is not in the statue of hist~ric, preservation,
it is required to have a public hearing, and it becomes
the reasonibility of the applicate to take action, to
insure the movement of his plan through this board.
Colette Penne said this needs some sort of time schedule,
time has been a problem with this dish, we should know when
this issue is going to come back to HPC for an application.
And when it is going to be moved and that HP~ wants some
commitments.
Joyce Hatton said that she thought she would not have to
come back to HPC, because of not having wirers going
across the street, that this solution was the best, if HPC
wants to instruct her to write the letter to the neighbor,
and in what time frame, within reason she would be very happy
to follow through.
There will be another meeting on this issue on the 24th
of this month, with Joyce Hatton, bring back letters or replies
from the neighbors also.
No vote was taken.
A letter from JP Hunn asking not to tear down the Marquand
residence, and that Colette Penne will keep it for the record.
Georgeann Waggaman welcom~ the new members to the HPC board.
Zoe Compton, and Mary Martin told the members a few comments
about themselves.
Nick Pasquarella said he made a site visit to Mc Donalds, to
see they are keeping with the stated plans,and the gentleman
in charge would be glad to discuss anything with the other
members if they walk by, they are suppose to open in late May.
Terry End asked about the Mesa Store on Main Street, which
a city bus hit the porch, Colette Penne said she would check
on it.
Terry End asked what is happening on the Hub lighting, Bill
Dreuding is suppose to be on it, Colette Penne will check on
that also.
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
HPC cont. April 10, 1984 p. 7
Terry End said where the Country Flower use to be on the
Hyman Street Mall, where seems to be a sun glass store
now, that building definitely got some additions on it,
that HPC has not approved, it has a false front up on front
of the building facing on to the mall, and detailing
painted wood , the members were asked to take a look at the
building, and be discussed next meeting.
Colette Penne said that it would be nice if the past members
would reci~ve a recommendation from City Council for their
pass services. The three old members are Bill Clark,
Steve Marcus and Marjorie Brenner.
Meeting adjourned at 2:50 P.M.