HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19840424RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Historic Preservation Committee Regular Meeting April 24, 1984 Chambers
Present were Terry End, Nick Pasquaretla, Gretchen Greenwood, Zoe Compton,
Colette Penne, excused were Georgeann Waggaman, Mona Frost, and Richard Cicero.
The minutes were moved for approval with the correct of adding
the words, does not, on page 3, Nick Pasquarella made the motion,
Gretchen Greenwood seconded, all in favor, motion carried.
Stan Mathis came to give a report on the r~-~ration/reconstruction
of the Glidden residence at 232 E. Hallam the new owner being
Vigoda.
232
E. Hallam
Glidden
House
Stan Mathis stated that when they started this project, it was
going to be a new exterior siding,windows, trim exactly like the
old structure, how ever after the sheet rock off of the inside
walls, they discovered several things, one, all the interior
walls, are what you call flat frame, that means instead a 2 by 4
the 4" direction being perpendicular to the plate line, flat,
so the walls are on a 2" divide instead of a 4" divide; There
are two bearing walls in the interior of this house, one is
up stairs, and one is down stairs. The 2 by 4 wall that is flat
frame has a tendency to bend, because you are not bearing things
in the way the two-by-four is meant to be working; And on each
side of this flat frame wall was a layer 1 by 10 pine boards,
which was kind of a sheeting underneath, that makes it impossible
to do any new wiring without taking off those boards, and if
you take off the boards though and the structure interity of
the building is really impaired. In addition to all this, when
the siding is off, and the 1 by 10 boards where taken off the inside
they found that about 1/3 of each side of the long side of the
building were starting to kick out; This house is what called
platform frame, they build the walls to a certain point, then
they put the floor joist on, then they build another wall on
top of it, and that works fine when the roof comes all the way
over, but in this case, there was a little 2 by 4 root business
that joined the 2 by 6 mansard slope side roofs, and a pony wall
on south of the second floor, so what happens is a hinge action
and over a period of years, and this house is about 100 years old,
these wall are starting to kick out, and there are some photos
to show this;
Stan Mathis said if they had left the structure the way it was,
and had insulated this whole roof, then they would of start to
maintain more snow level on the roof, and this roof was never
~signed for a heavy snow level, and would buckle.
Showing the committee what they have done to reconstruction the
house, and repair the damage to the house they found as they
tried to restore it. They would of liked to save the whole
structure, but the house was unsafe, and that is why it
became a reconstruction instead of a remodel. He also show the
members a rim joist that was dry rot, one of the worst and
one of the best.
The foundation the old one is a double Y, the exterior bricks
are not in very good shape, and one reason they are not in good
shape, someone either the Gliddens or someone before them,
put inside the brick foundation wall set up some 1 by 10 boards
from the ground level to the bottom of the floor, and filled it
with saw dust for installation, the saw dust whipped the
moisture out of the ground, and over a period of years, of
the freeze thaw conditions turn this to dust. Also the
wiring in the house was dangerous.
The mill work is being built in Carbondale, the exact same knee
braces, same trim, same windows, same siding new, they have
salvaged brick rack around the roof, it was broken and gone
in many places, it can not be reproduced so it might just
be the the major part of the house in front, in the same color
scheme.
Gretchen Greenwood said that a part of restoration is to restore
the house to the way it orginally looked.
Nick Pasquarella said the members should look at the reconstruction
vs restoration, if you drive by and see what has been done,
reconstructing the frame work, putting the building back so
whole again, and it for the benefit of historical preservation
in this community,Stan Mathis has made this building physically
whole, in its restored arrangement, he has made the building
firm and safe and strong structurely.
Stan Mathis said that the wood fence is not going up again, but
there will be a new fence made of iron, picket style, cased iron,
with detailing.
Colette Penne stated that when HPC looked at in the most detail
was the addition, what HPC heard was that the old part of the house
was going to be restored,all the elements were going to be the
same, and HPC did not look at that many details, looking back
at the presentation HPC should of looked closely at ~e older
of the house more than they did at the time. HPC took this
house that was an excellent quality, and took it at face value,
and at the time the members went and looked at the house, when
the roof was falling, and HPC said at that time , that perhaps
Stan Mathis did the right thing, but HPC is asking why the choices
were made, to have a better understanding for later references
and knowledge.
Colette Penne said that after talking to the regional director
of the nation trust in Grand Junction for historic preservation,
and told him some of the information that Stan had remarked on,
like the bay window had no structural support, they only had
1 by 6's in them, and where not going to hold up, and some
of the other problems that the members had seen, and the decision
if you can restore an old house and retain almost all of its
materials then that is preferably to reconstruction. Colette Penne
said the statement she would like to make to the community, that
not every victorian in town is in this bad of shape, and this has
to be the solution, this house should be reconstructed, and in
this case to reconstructed was the only way to go. That HPC
should be allow to have a budget, and in cases like this , when
a architect finds more problems with the house he is planning
to redo, then have a budget, that would allow a second opinion
on the best way to go about it.
Stan Mathis said what happen if HPC had an architect on hand, and
they had a different opinion than the other architect that was
doing the project, if the structure failed, the libel party
being who,he would not want to put his license up for a thing
such as this.
Gretchen Greenwood said she feels this is a lost, that this building
has been taken away, she felt it could be resoted to the way it
use to look,but that there will be something missing from it,
and that being the old materials and the restoration as it is being
done; There should be alternative methods of construction for
restoration vs tearing a building down and starting over.
Nick Pasquarella said for the record he would like Stan Mathis
to state what he did the work and it went on far behond what
HPC exspected, that he did go ahead and do what he felt had to
be done, without advising this board of the problems and decisions
he was making, and that he was in error for at least not
comming and telling this board, that when he gets through all thats
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
HPC April 24, 1984 cont. P.3
you are going to see there is just a minimal frame, no more,
no less,beacuse he can not do any thing more with the building
beacuse of where it is at. HPC should have the decision of
what can and can not be done with the building, and if HPC
still wants the building with just two-by-fours.
Stan Mathis said , okay.
Charles Hopkins, from the public, stated that he felt that a
contractor would want to explore the condition before he
commitment himself even a ball park figure of what it would cost
to renovate this house, and he feels its strange that the house
had to be made into a skeleton before they discovered these things.
Somewhere in the planning stage, crawling in the crawl space
would of been done, and these things would of been discovered,
and he stated he was suprised at the late date the struture
damaged occurred.
~olette Penne said that after this has happen that perhaps HPC
should be educated and a certain group of architects in town
that can be called upon to help advise this board on certain decision,
even a tax consultant on tax advantages, lawyers in terms
preservation activities.
Patty Hopkins said she feels the owner has a responibility
and HPC should be presented with construction plans,architectal
plans;
Stan Mathis did state that Mrs Vigoda does have another architect in
Denver working with them, Harley Reinhart.
Heather Hopkins,said she would like to see a precaution, that
something like this does not happen again;
Colette Penne said that Aspen does have one of the better ordinances,
in the state; The problems with this house, no one anticipated
the amount of demolishion this house was going to under go,
and so there was noone monitoring, HPC did have a site visit,
and perhaps someone from the building department should check on
this places especially the excellent historical designated ones,
every few days, and any thing that is major, will have to reviewed.
Gretchen Greenwood restated how unfortunate this happen to the community
and that a house like this was lost, and that something like this
will not happen again.
Terry End said this has been a learning experince for HPC and
Stan M&this, and there might be a better inspection on the
other excellent and good historical houses;
Gretchen Greenwood said that this house still has to go
through reconstruction, and the community and HPC does want
to be very involved with it and the orginal state as to how it was;
And for the record Stan Mathis said that would be no problem,
and that he will keep in touch with this committee, and have them
review major steps.
Colette Penne had a discussion with Patty about asking for funds
from City Council or the mayor for funding, to have a specialist
in historic presevation, when ever a remodel is apply for, be call
in, or bill the owner who is applying for the restoration; The idea
that the owner, since we do not have abudget, and there is no
application fee either, and most processing that the City or the
County go through do have large application fees. Maybe when some
one purchased one of the structures that is of the top two
categories, which since HPC does not have a budget, then maybe the
owner, when someone purchase of these houses, they would
understand they are going to have to do major restoration
rather than reconstruction, that there will be a fee on a
consultant architect or a varification of the structure if
HPC could get these structures evalated that could be in HPC
files, and when someone buys a structure that information
would be invaluable,It would tell an objective opinion of the
condition of the structure and what it would take to bring
it up to code,or to restore it. Maybe since this type of information
will be dated , that they would have to pay for an undate
on the information.
Stan Mathis said that the front and the apparent side of the
house now, will h~ve to raise and lower the elevation by about
eight inches, for drainage across the side, the east side of
the house.
Patty Hopkins asked about the landscaping, and would there be
the lost of any more cotton woods?
Then the gardens will be lost, on the east side of the house.
Stan Mathis said he was not sure when every one had seen the
gardens,because they are not in the greatest condition, but the
gardens are going to go back in, a full landscaping plan,
And they have applied to cut down one more Cotton wood, the
one furthest back on the lot.
Patty Hopkins said like the Lilly of the Valley can not be
replaced or the myrtle garden.
Discussion continued,
Zoe Compton stated that this body has to consider also the
needs of the applicate, if not these old houses would
there, and one of the main things is to maintain the b~auty
of Aspen, by keeping these old houses and keeping a part of
Aspen historical, and if people put there money into these old
houses, and they find they need more space, and if HPC does
not look at there needs, then they most likely will become
rental units, and not kept up as well.
Gideon Kaufman, said he would like to set the record straight,
that she had the property zoned from commerical to residential;
That property was zoned commerical by mistake, a lot split has
been tabled by there request, the house is the one that is
designate historic, it is not the land, and the issue before
HPC is how to deal with the situation in the future, not to
try and go back and u~do something that was done;
Stan M~this will come back to HPC as this project goes along,
and }{PC will review the photo's of the Glidden house, and return them
to Stan.
Stan Mathis said that the owners of 633 W. Main do not like the
color on the house and wish to change it, showing the members
the color samples of nocturne M3640, and Minute Man Blue D4036,
Stan stated that the whole color of the house is going to
change. This is the corner house, the 627 W, Main will stay
the same as before when painted. Pink as a color was turned
down down by HPC before. The trim will be changing.
Colette Penne said that Joyce H~tton is out of town, but that
she should of been notified that this was to be taken off
the agenda before today when Colette had to call to find out
why Joyce Hatton, was not attending this meeting.
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Awnings
Levi's
Lickety
Split
Ice Cream
HPC CONT. 4/24/84 P.5
New Business:
Consideration for awnings for Levi's Lickety Split Ice Cream
~. in the Ski Service Building across from R. Peas. James
Le Virus.
Showing the members the samples of awnings,this will be a
summer time awnings, the lease runs from May 15, to November 25
of this year, The request is for ice cream cones on his awnings
on the side of it, the awning is similar to the one in Glenwood
Springs,
As far as the signage, the cones are consider part of the sign;
The store front is 18 feet wide,
Zoe Compton said she felt there should be a site visit, and
take the sample of colors for the awnings, and decided when
the members can see the color of the building, and what will
blend;
James Le Vitus said his first choice will be a dark color
with a multi color ribbon around it, but he said he would be
flexible with his choice of colors, his main objection is
to let people know that he has home made ice cream, and is across
from the park.
Th~ members felt that the ice cream cones on an awning were to much,
Colette Penne said she has no problem with the blue awning that
James has a sample of, with a trim color of orange and yellow,
but a raised cone, no.
Gre~hen Greenwood said that an applique is not in keeping with,
the signs of Aspen.
James Le Vitus said that another thing he wanted to mention,
that the bottom part of the awning is not flat material, it
will again be on the puffy side, and the cones on the awnings
will be a good way to advertise.
If James can not have the cones he said he would have "Home Made
Ice Cream" across the awning, which the members agreed would
look much better than the cones,
The signage will have to be worked out with Bill Drueding
The meeting was continued at the site of the future Levi's
Lickety Split Ice Cream Shop,, After reviewing the planned
awning, the members voted for approval of a blue awning with
scallop trim of yellow and orange,.all in favor, motion carried.
Meeting adjourned.