HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19760525RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Regular Meeting
Historical Preservation Committee
May 25, 1976
Meeting was called to order by Chairman Lary Groen at 1:15 p.m. with members
Norm Burns, Mona Frost, Terry End and Jerry Michael present. Also present
was John Stanford of the Planning Department.
Approval of Minutes
Burns made a motion to approve the minutes of May 11, 1976
with the following corrections: page 1, twelfth paragraph,
fifth line, delete "5'~ after the word south and add "10";
page 3, second paragraph, line two, add "site" after
"building". Frost made a second to the motion. All in
favor, motion carried.
Old Business
P&Z Public Hearing
Mesa Store Bakery
and Floradora
Stanford explained the Resolution that HPC has adopted
recommending adoption of the Mesa Store Bakery and the
Floradora to be historically designated; has been referred
to the Planning and Zoning Commission and the Planning and
Zoning has set a public hearing for June 1, at 5:00 p.m.
in the Council Chambers. There has to be a quorum of the
HPC members present at this public hearing. The recommen-
dation for approval will be recommended to Council. Council
will then set a public hearing which will be the latter
part of June or beginning of July.
New Business
Proposed Amendments
to HPC Review Guide-
lines
Stanford feels the Commission has not been as thorough as
it could be in the districts where there is residential
buildings. When the criteria was being developed,
attention was given to the major commercial structures.
The criteria reflected design constraint directions that
are oriented towards making new construction compatible
with the commercial structures. The criteria doesn't
specifically address what happens when a new building is
built adjacent to the residential structures. Stanford
would like to see the low-keyed character maintained in
the residential areas and the proposed Main Stree Historic
District. Thus, Stanford came up with the following
amendment to the guidelines: New construction shall
respect existing rhythms of solids and void along a street
as established by building facades separated by open
spaces. Stanford would like to see the design be sympa-
thetic to the character and environment that is set by
the residential structures.
Stanford also brought another point he would like to see
cleared. That is in reference to the work that HPC and
the Planning Office have done on new developments since
the adoption of the historic district. Stanford suggested
a field trip to see what work has been developed under the
review of the RPC criteria. Stanford explained the
buildings that have been constructed have taken the victor-
ian motiff; but do not promote the historic character of
Aspen because they are not authentic victorian architecture.
Stanford would like to see a contemporary facade that has
some elements that are compatible with the victorian look.
Stanford suggested the following amendment: Architecture
in the Historic District that reflects contemporary design
but that is visually compatible with the scale and visual
impression of nearby Historic structures shall be encourage~
rather than new construction that imitates or copies
authentic historic architecture.
As far as changes on an existing historic structure,
Stanford suggested the following amendment: Exterior
renovations to designated historic buildings shall
maintain the original architectural appearance. In other
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Historical Preservation Committee May 25, 1976
Main Street Historic
District
HPC Review of H-
District Proposal
Pre-application
Review - Schaffer
Building
words, Burns explained that the rennovation of the existing
victorian would be one thing and the addition should be
another. Groen mentioned that from a businessman's stand-
point, the hardest thing to reproduce as far as a victorian
building is the scale of the building.
Tom Wells was asked by the Commission to present his opinion
Wells has had experience in architectural review in other
cities and feels that in order to do a real reproduction
of a victorian building is economically out of the question.
Wells suggested that HPC become an architectural review
committee that can decide whether a building is sensitive
to Aspen or not (such as a new building) but reserve the
old buildings. Wells feels new architecture can be sympa-
thetic to the scale, materials and feeling of Aspen; and
that the HPC should be able to have the power to say the
old victorians can be preserved but new victorians are not
allowed. Wells suggested to have the phrase "to avoid
the capricious use of victorian detail" added in the
criteria. Groen asked Wells if he would like to be an
alternate member for the HPC. Wells said that he would.
Stanford mentioned he would schedule for the June 8 meeting,
a walking tour of the Historic District.
Stanford said he will be bringing in a series of maps
which will identify the direction that will be taken on
the historic district. That is to identify areas that have
more significant historic character than others. So
far on all the victorian structures, except one or two,
the planning department has received documentation on the
historic structures dating from 1911 back, and the middle
period from 1911 to 1940 to present.
Stanford explained the proposal which is by Steve Marcus
for a new building on the corner of Hunter and Hopkins.
The applicant submitted two concepts on the building, the
difference in plan is the form of the building.
Jack Lawler, architect of the building, was present to
explain two different concepts of the building. The
basic concept of the first plan was to orient the facade
of the building toward the corner. In orther words 45°
between Hunter and Hopkins street with important space
by that orientation to the corner itself. Also the site
west of the corner is opened up more because of the 45°
angle of the building and it opens up the corner of the
rear.
Lawler continued to explain the first concept of the
building. It was predominately brick with some arches and
imitation victorian detail; but at the scale Lawler wanted
to achieve. One-half story would be the main level and
one-half story would be below the main level. Lawler
did present this proposal to Stanford to see what Stanford
had in mind for the corner. Stanford wasn't convinced of
putting the facade at a 45° angle. Stanford suggested to
orient the building toward a residential scale rather than
the scale of City Hall.
Lawler then explained the second concept. Lawler felt
because of the scale of the buildings in the area, i.e.
the Church, City Hall, Professional Building etc. the
building should be more oriented to a larger scale rather
than the scale of the residents. Therefore, the building
had the same layout but decreased the appearance size of
it by giving a stronger horizontal element and breaking
up the upper level facade with a victorian residential
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Regular Meeting
Historical Preservation Committee
May 25, 1976
scale details. Also the building had a sloped roof
motiff which keyes to not only the adjoining houses across
the street, but the sloped roof which is on City Hall and
a number of other buildings in the area. The plan gives
more of a one-story effect on the immediate street
elevations. There will be a story-and-a-half scale which
will, Lawler felt, tie in with the victorian houses because
it will tend to accent the height of the victorian
buildings and then by sloping back will minimize the
impact of the upper level. The lower level is oriented
to the court yard.
Groen asked what the plannning department's position was.
Stanford read a memo with the planning department's
suggestions. The planning department is recommending
denial of the proposal because the final design lacks
sufficient compatibility or harmony of the neighboring
historic structures. Also the massing of the building
is not in harmony with the victorian residential structures.
The lower patio of the building eliminates the linear
open space along the streets that separates the adjacent
existing structures from the street. It would be a
severe change in character to have the sunken patio
immediately off the sidewalk. The character of the streets
created by one-story brick and ~lapboard facades with
individual access at grade and separated by open space.
T hes e characteristics of the existing historic
structures are not reflected in the proposed structure.
Also the design of the proposed building expresses a
contemporary character that does not relate to adjacent
roof shapes, set-backs, location of open spaces, or
landscaping. In other words, Stanford feels the proposed
building does nothing to promote the existance and would
probably increase the pressures to eventually turn the
existing residential structures to demolish them. It
would increase pressures to have them removed and put
in another commercial structure. The planning department
is looking for a building in that area to actually
enhance and tend to stabalize the existence of the historic
structures adjacent to the property.
Lawler asked how the HPC weigh the importance of the
residential historic residential elements as opposed to
City Hall, the Church and the larger buildings that are
also neighbors.
Groen replied that what Stanford is encouraging the HPC
to consider is the rhythm of space and voids and mass as
they relate in the downtown area. The resident's structures are
related to City Hall as a relief from the mass and the
scale. The HPC would like to encourage the retention of
some of the buildings to maintain variation and would
prefer not to see the entire downtown area eventually
become like downtown Los Angeles with street to street
and sidewalk to sidewalk masses of masonary. Groen
explained to Lawler that the HPC would like to see some-
thing that didn't have as much mass as the proposed
building has in relation to the houses. Groen felt
the excavated area, a lower court yard, creates a dimens~iol
that is not typical except in one area of downtown Aspe~
which is Mountain Sports.
Burns suggested blocking out the lower level. Groen
thought that was an interesting idea because it changes
the apparent mass and scale of the building.
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Historical Preservation Committee May 25, 1976
Allen Schaffer was present. One of the guildelines that
Schaffer went~by was the Durant Mall. What the architects
have done is: 1) try to make a building that is attractive
for a merchant or the man who is going to put a store in
the building where people will be generated to come into
the shops~ 2) there are 3 lots of 9,000 feet which means
they could have a buildout of 18,000 feet. However, they
are building 13,500 feet so there is not the bulk and
mass there, so the space that could be used economically
is being cut down; 3) if the building was built at grade
level, and took that space that is down below and made a
three-story building out of it, the mass and bulk would
suffer more than it does now. Therefore, the purpose
of the open plaza is to create a park atmosphere, or
a leisurely-feel for the front of the building; thus
keeping the scope of the building down rather than increas-
ing it.
Stanford suggested taking the open space and breaking it
up into three or four smaller, more intimate spaces.
Stanford's feeling on the open plaza is it is too grand
of a space. If the open spaces were smaller it would be
more in keeping of the scale and keeping the open space
extending from the front yard of the house next door.
Groen asked if a restaurant was a proposed use in the
building. Schaffer replied that it was, but if something
better came along they would take that use. Groen asked
if the restaurant could use part of the patio level for
dining outside. Schaffer replied the restaurant has their
own paito above because that is where the restaurant will
be placed.
Schaffer defended the open plaza because he feels people
like setbacks rather than have the lot line buildings.
Schaffer questioned how to accommodate three very different
type buildings with the Lodge on one side, the professional
building on another and victorians on yet another side.
Stanford mentioned the proposal is in line with the
Lodge and the professional building; however, not with
the victorian houses and that is what HPC is concerned with.
Schaffer responded he is making the building attractive for
entrepreneurs and merchants who will be in there to attract
people. Schaffer feels the element of visuality is
important so shoppers will be able to see the shops.
Stanford resnonded that a benefit in Aspen is the saying
"bigger is not be t te r.'~ Part of the experience
is being able to go into small scale shops.
Hecht was present to ask the commission to explain more
thoroughlywhat it is they would like to see on the corner.
So far Hecht understands they wouldn't like to see a
reproduction of victorian houses. The concern is to
preserve the victorian character of the street. The
policy of the HPC is to deny any application to tear any
existing houses. The houses across the street are
designated "historic". Lawler questioned the Committee
if they could picture in their minds a building 2½ stories
that will ever be acceptable. Burns suggested taking
part of the open plaza and separating it thus creating
two smaller elements. Burns liked the idea of a low section
on the front and having it higher in the middle. However,
it might break the scale by having an indentation between
part of the building. Stanford mentioned if the building
was located in a more commercial area, there probably
wouldn't be as much concern. Stanford feels there should
be consideratign given to the house next door and the new
building that is designed next door should foster being a
good neighborhood.
Schaffer asked about the vacant lot next door and if some-
one can build there. Frost mentioned the property has been
sold and they have been before HPC to ~ild.
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Regular Meeting
Historical Preservation Committee
May 25, 1976
Stanford suggested to Lawler to go up to the setback on
the back part of the lot.
Stanford suggested to develop preliminary sketches.
Lawler questioned if the courts did become two or three
smaller courts, what would be the reaction of the basic
idea of going up half a level and down half a level,
rather than go in at street level. There has to be
a certain amount of square footage to make it economically
feasible; thus if it is taken out in the ground the
building would have to go higher or underground. Michael
didn't like the courts because he felt they would become
snow, dirt and paper catchers. Groen felt it is hard
for the HPC to come to a consensus or to give guidelines
except they can follow the guidelines which have been
developed for historic structures. Schaffer felt to
utilize the bulk that the zoning allows, and yet keep
the lines to appear like the victorians it is almost an
impossible task. Groen suggested they do the preliminary
drawings that were suggested, present them at the June
8 meeting to be reviewed and the HPC would comment on them
at that time.
Stanford asked if there would be any problem going down a
full level. The reason is because it would bring the
second level down to street level.
Groen asked if there was any further discussion. It was
decided to have a study session on June 1 at 4:00 p.m.
to discuss the sketches at that time.
Groen asked the Committee members if they had any further
comments. Michael felt the patio is not an element that
fits into the central core, and there are shops in the
town that have an interior access that are doing well,
and doesn't care to approve another patio. Groen mentioned
the reason he questioned if the area was going to be used
for outdoor dining is because when the area is not used
during the winter the tables when not in use or the chairs
will be stored there and piled up. Also the businesses
in the lower level could display merchandise in that area.
Stanford suggested the patio to be completely internalized
such as the Patio Building. Groen asked if the trees and/
or sculptures could be put in the patio space. Stanford
replied they could.
Burns moved to adjourn at 3:00 p.m.; seconded by Michael.
L~D~y M./K~lyf~,'De~ty City Clerk
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