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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19760113 RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves Regular Meeting Historic Preservation Committee January 13, 1976 Meeting was called to order by Chairman Laryl/ Groen. Those members present were John Stanford of the Planning Office, Mona Frost, Florence Glidden and Norm Burns. Special guests present were Ramona Markalunas and Vera Approval of Minutes Motion Old Business New Business Main Street Historic Designation Lary Groen pointed out the misspellings in the minutes. Norm motioned to approve the minutes, and this was seconded by Mona Frost. There was none. Lary brought up the subject of the Sinclair station during the Christmas week. He stated that it looked like the "most god awful rag market in the world". The Mall Commission has asked the City Council to in- vestigate an Ordinance forbidding this kind of peddling on private property. Norm stated that they now have new signs which he feels certainly do not meet the sign code. Lary questioned the historic nature of the rag market, but feels that even if Aspen did have, this type of market looks "tacky". He feels it looks like a Goodwill deposit box. Norm feels that if nothing else is done, at least Clayton Meyring should be consulted as to the conforming to the sign code. Lary~- was curious, because this summer when the people had a plant sale, and they brought in the plants, they collected sales tax, and did not have a valid sales tax permit. This could be a way of finding out exactly what is going on. The law states that you do have to display your Sales Tax Permit. They did not turn in this money, but left town. He wondered if a motion could be made requesting or endorsing the Mall Commission's request to the City Council to consider some type of Ordinance preventing that type of peddling and merchandising. Norm expressed that this letter should be worded so as to show that the HPC is concerned with the visual aspect of this merchandising. Mona Frost stated that you have to have a business license to sell on the street, and was questioned by John Stanford because they were on private property. Lary thought that on private property they can sell, it's just that there is a law against peddling on the streets. Florence stated that everyone in the City is required to get a business license. Lary asked if John Stanford could draft a memo or letter to Council regarding this. He suggested a letter to Council, a copy to Don Fleisher, City Manager and the City Attorney so that we can demonstrate our concern for this thing. This was agreed upon. The Aspen Historical Society presented their data on the historic designations. Ramona Markalunas and Vera were introduced by John. They have done the background work for the Main Street Designation, for which the planning office had drawn a map. Ramona stated that they started their data gathering in October from tax records of the property along main street. Vera has gone through the Assessors Office and tax files verifying the dates when each building was built. Then, we have made some designation as to whether it is historic. The only way we really have to Page determine whether it is really historic is by the construction records. From there on, this will be handed to the HPC, and they can make their designations as to the degree of historical quality. Vera stated that the whole thing is a very long process, having to go through the Assessors Records, the tax on the improvements, the Sanborne and Son Insurance Maps, which has eliminated conflicting dates on the construction of some buildings, when several dates were on several different records. This was used to either support or conflict the dates obtained through the Assessors records. The Sardee's House, the Assessor's card says it was built in 1890, yet looking at the Assessment Tax Record, it appears to have been built around 1893, looking at the Sanborne and Son maps, it does not appear on the 1890 map, and does appear on the 1893 map. We have also written to the library of Congress in hopes that they will be able to provide linking map dates. It seems that the years of discrepancy are 1890-92, if thelibrary of Congress can provide further information from their collection of maps from all over the country, it will really help to clarify some of these dates. I have worked with Warren Connor at the Assessor's office, and he has provided the actual dimensions of the structure that exist today, and we use this as a comparison to make sure the building that exists today is the same building that was erected in 1890 or late 1800's. These are the main sources we have gotten into at this point. Each of the 39 structures that we are talking about will have an individual file and also according to the area, and what history actually occured in the general main street area. Romona stated that one of the determinations needed from the HPC was what should be considered historical structures. There are several buildings that were constructed during what is called the" Ski Renaisance" like the Chalets, which were built after World War II. I think that this would add to the historic aspect, not everything historic has to have been constructed in the 1890's. Larry added that perhaps this can be considered as an added historic importance along with the present concern for down zoning. Mabye it can be added as to the present day uses. Conditional uses must be considered. The only thing concerned about are places like the Copper Horse, used as a room- ing house, and the more people you crowd into these places the harder the building is used. Mona asked if they were going to take the historical period from the ski period also, why aren't they taking the 800 block on Main Street. The Long residence has been there a long time. We've discussed at one time how much we can take, and there are a lot of residences that have been around a long time. Lary added that he did think they would have to take another look at the boundaries. At the corner of 7th on the West Side the Boomerang Lodge, and was corrected that it was on Bleeker. Florence asked about taking in the Agate around the corner, which was questioned by the other members as to whether that would be doing anyone a favor. Mona stated that Mr. Waterman had gotten all the cabins from Camp Hale after the War. He built that house there too and used the stove from the old Washington School. That was built in 1945 or 1946. Ramona stated that the direction from Council for the HPC, if they have a strong feeling on that, to go back around that corner and take in that area. LaryI felt that if there was eventually another historic district on the West End district, it will have to go to Council, but Norm seemed to feel that if anything was extended it would have to be just that additional block. They should just concentrate on Main Street. John seemed to feel, from the planning offices standpoint, that it would really be wise to look at the lodges, beyond the 1890's. We have to be able to relate back to the most historic district. He would also like to include this in the historic district of the downtown area. RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves page 3 There are many historical aspects of the Main Street area to be considered, such as the fact that it has a wider right of way, which indicates that it was, by whoever laid the town out, to be considered as the main street. Back in 1890's, however, it was considered out-of-town. Norm added that Center street was also out-of-town, and if it was really center of town it should have been going the other way. Mona Frost seemed to feel that this was because they had already started Ute City over where the Midland eventually came in then they platted the town. Like so many plans that are drawn up it didn't work that way. Until they put the courthouse here, the business just developed on the other end. Main Street and Center Street were basically surveyors, which John seemed to feel was a very interesting point that could possibly be used in the presentation to Council. T~is would generate some added interest in the general historical aspect. T~ey also used the Sardee house, Mona stated, as a place from which they surveyed. The main entrance into Aspen was mainly over Independence where the railroads were also. McLain Flats was also used as an entrance. The old schools were in the West End, the Washington School. Ramona seemed to feel that the name West End should be renamed as it is very confusing, mabye it was the West end of the Ute City. Mona wants them to give back Garmisch and Center. Lar~ seemed to feel that mabye they could trade Garmisch and West End and go back to Center Street. Norm added that they had tried this once before but that they had gone about it in the wrong way and that it could possibly be approached again sometime in the future with better results. John seemed to feel that if all the points brought out in the above conversation could be incorporated into the presentation on the Main Street Historical Des- ignation, Main Street can be used almost as a vehicle to get a little history of Aspen, and how the entrance was from the East. People then begin to understand the significance of main street. Florence asked if anyone knew when main street became a state highway. Ramona recalled that Castle Creek Bridge was built about 1904 or 1906. It was called the State Bridge. It became a state highway after the Midland went out of business around 1921 or 1922. The state took over the right of way a few years after that. Mona added that the people of this town took their pitchforks and shovels and worked on Independence Pass to keep the road open. They used to have wagons come over the pass with the Highway Commissioner just before the first World War. They were having what they called "good roads day." TSey would take their equipment and horses and wagons up there and shovel all the road. They would take lunches, and the whole community. It was called the Inner - Ocean highway. Possible reason for this was as a connecting link between the Atlantic and the Pacific. The City Government has addressed the fact that we have so many problems with the condition of Main street and the fact that it is a State Highway, why can't we have a better street. The City would like to see the State maintain that street. Mona added that the City can't take much better care of the side streets. John asked Vera and Ramona what the next step would be, to which Ramona replied that they need to go through each Page 4 Tom Mix Building Exterior Stairway file and what their characteristics are. TbJen they can be categorized and we can give you the information as to what these buildings are being used for. Florence asked Ramona if they had gotten far enough to be able to tell about absenteeism ownership. Norm stated that about only four letters were mailed out of town, and he was surprised. Florence added she felt this was a distinct advantage. Norm asked if anyone had answered George Crimson's letter. Lary brought up the subject of the bandstand in Papeke Park. He wanted to know if this was City property and if they had to go to the City. Ramona stated that this was built by the WPA and this led to a deep conversation on the origin of Papeke Park itself and the fact that this has not always been vacant, but there was originally a Church on that corner. Norm suggested that at one of the upcoming meetings, that the committee take a tour around the buildings on Main street to orientate themselves with the historically designated buildings. They can then visually analize these. They may be a historic building, but you might not even recognize it as such. Mona suggested a series of articles in the Aspen Times about the historic aspect of Main Street, and everyone seemed to feel this was a good idea. Mary Hayes is a good candidate for this, and mabye she could keep it on every other week, and very short articles so that more people would read them, and prepare the way for the historical designation. She could possibly tie this in with Bi-Centennial year. If this can be put before Council before the Fourth of July, mabye they will be more receptive. Ramona also brought up that Preservation Week was in May. It was agreed that Mary Hayes should be approached on the advertising subject. The next item of business was a presentation by David Hauter on the proposed exterior stairway to be built between the Tom Mix Building and the building that houses A1 Aban and Betsy's Barbeque. David presented a proposed drawing for the Committee to view. This stairway will come out of the rear at the recess. There are some stairs at the rear that only go up 4 ft, and then there some stairs that go up to the Apartment level. The finger mall will be paved with paving, instead of the boardwalk. There is a 10 ft. set back, and what the stairs provide is to break up the alley way which is rather trashy. At the end of the mall will be a planter instead of the stairs going up to the apartment level with the door to the left of what is now the Fine Art Gallery. This remodeling does not really effect anything exterior. These proposed stairs will be in two levels, instead of the original stairs coming right down into the finger mall. Florence commented that you can still walk by the stairs, they do not obstruct the passage totally. Lar~ asked about the paving, and whether this would extend to the other property line. David replied that since this was going to be done in the spring it could be in conjunction with the mall. There was concern expressed by Mona and Lary in regard to the adjacent property line, and the railing on the stairs, which Lary felt it would obstruct too much of the finger mall. Norm stated it was probably too high and that the code more than likely required the railing for the safety factor. This was acknowledged by Hauter. Lary's prime concern was that an objective of the Mall and planning department was to carry the mall through to the adjacent street and that this might obstruct the thoroughway. John replied that this was not an adopted plan, but that planning had looked at this very closely and he felt that this would be an asset to the City by enhancing the loOks of that alley way in conjunction with continuing the Mall. Norm again stated the code, which indicates that any- thing 30 inches or more requires a rail. Lary was RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves Motion Other Business still concerned. There was a continued discussion as to the pro's and con's of the finger mall and this extension of the stairway. David Hauter stated that a straight line is not necessarily the best or most interesting way to come down from the Apartment level. The division into two levels not only adds to the looks by breaking up the straight line, but also attempts to cope with the problem of leaving enough space in the finger mall for pedestrian traffic. Lary[ was concerned because it looked like a dead end, which was argued by David that it did not. John then proposed approval contingent only upon the developer agreeing to provide the stairs to come down in the rear. David stated this would be no problem. Then the stairs would work from both directions. Norm gave his opinion as being a general enhancement to the finger mall, along with the plants and all. John added that there was no enclosure involved and this he liked. Florence really liked the idea of having the paving instead of the boardwalk. Lary wanted to know what would happen if the adjacent property owners decided to build a fence along one side. This didn't really seem feasible, but if it did happen, Norm suggested that possibly the planter could come off at that time and create a clear passage through. Lary asked whether a motion had to be made on this matter, and Norm said that yes, because this was a pre-application. David was informed of the procedure if there was a change, which would again have to go through the planning office for approval. Lary stated that he would like to incorporate in the motion that the entire open space between buildings be treated with one paving material. Norm stated that David really had no control over that, even though David did reply that he was assured this is what they had planned to do. Norm added that in his motion he was going to include that in the future, at no future date could a stairway be built down into the finger mall and block the open space. This would effect the property next door. It was decided that this would be within the facade of the building. Norm Burns motioned that the pre application be given approval fromthe standpoint of the Historic Preservation Committee, provided that at no future date does the adjoining property will be allowed to extend the stair down from the balcony to this addition, and that motion was seconded by Florence Glidden. This was unamiously approved by the committee. Comments included a comment from Mona Frost that she was pleased to see the removal of the Mine Commission exterior dining and those timbers will be used to re- construct the boathouse by the Lift #1, on Aspen Mountain. Lary Groen asked about the status of the alternates to the HPC, which had been approved by Council. The Secretary informed him of the applications and interviews, which HPC decided they would suggest two members, those being Susan Smith or John Tindall. Meeting was adjourned.