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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'lING PLARRING AND ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4. 1986
Chairman Welton Anderson called the meeting to order at 5:00
p.m. with Commissioners Roger Hunt, Al Blomquist, David white,
Mari Peyton (arrived late), Jasmine Tygre (arrived late), Jim
Colombo (arrived late), and Ramona Markalunas (arrived late)
present.
COMMISSIONERS I COMMENTS
White commented that the Volk property was going to be discussed
by City Council on the following Monday night and if any of the
Commissioners were concerned about the property they should
attend that Council meeting.
Anderson said he had received a letter regarding
GMP which arrived late for the scoring session.
from Jayne Wohlgemuth objecting to the proposal.
the Little Nell
The letter was
MINUTES
December 3. ~985:
Tygre moved to approve the minutes of December 3, 1985; Hunt
seconded. All in favor; motion carried.
PUBLIC BEARING
LITTLE NELL BASE RRTlEVELOPMEII1'.r PRECISE PLAN/CONDITIONAL USE/MODRTAIN
VIEWPLARE/8040 GREERLINE REVIEW
Anderson said tonights meeting would be centered on the access,
circulation, and parking issues. Anderson opened the public
hearing.
"
,
Skier DrOP-Off Area
Alan Richman, Planning Director, addressed the skier drop-off
area stating this area was one of the key problems in the growth
management review as well as in the growth management scoring.
One concern was the drop-off area creating a potential for a
variety of turning conflicts with cars on Durant. The areas were
reviewed on the plans. Additionally, the Engineering Department
had expressed concern about the loss of approximately 12 or 13
parking spaces along Durant St. which were to be internalized in
the project drop-off area. Another concern was the overall image
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'rING PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4. 1986
of the Little Nell Hotel facility, which is portrayed as a first
class and important hotel facility, the first thing you see is an
asphalt parking area. Richman did not think that was a grand
image for a first class hotel or something that represented the
condition set regarding open space. Richman thought the entrance
to the hotel should be pedestrian/people oriented as opposed to a
car oriented entrance. Richman commented he would almost rather
see the hotel moved back from the street than what was being
proposed.
Peter Forsch, applicant, said they thought they had made concessions
with this proposal, based on comments and scores made at the GMP
scoring session. Mr. Forsch said they thought this project
and the resul ting base area redevelopment was probably the most
significant redevelopment in the community. There are a lot of
beneficial things that w ill accrue to the communi ty wi th thi s
development.
Bill Kane, applicant, reviewed the plans of the original, conceptual
SPA, submission with respect to the drop-off area. Mr. Kane said
the building had been moved back 20 feet from the original
submission, resulting in the building being 26 feet from the
property line and 36 feet from the existing curb line. Mr. Kane
reviewed 5 new proposal plans for the drop-off area. Mr. Kane
said they thought the most viable of the 5 proposals was alternative
14.
Colombo asked what the
of the 5 alternatives.
alternative.
number of parking spaces would be in each
Mr. Kane explained the number with each
Blomquist asked why the applicant rejected drop-off area alternative
13. Mr. Kane replied because of the hotel entrance, negatively
impacting the design of the building. Blomquist said i3 seemed
to resolve the conflict best. Richman commented that it was
important to make sure there were an adequate number of parking
spaces being provided.
Richman said he had originally preferred alternative 14, but
during this presentation he had become more comfortable with
alternative 12, creating more potential for the open space
courtyard. Additionally, alternative 12 provides for 14 parking
spaces, the smallest number of spaces shown in any of the options.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'rING PLANNING ANn ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4. 1986
Hunt asked why alternative II was rejected. Mr. Kane replied
that it would require left hand turns. The predominate volume of
traffic would be approaching the site from the west and a back-up
of only 4 cars would block the Spring St. intersection. Mr. Forsch
said there was also a circulation concern, with too many opportun-
ities for people going east on Durant to turn in to the exit area.
Tygre said there were currently 8 parking spaces on Durant at the
proposed si te for the drop-off area and questioned who was
parking there and questioned if they were really necessary.
Mr. Forsch said after watching the existing spaces he thought
they were being used for long term, day skier parking. Tygre
said she was inclined to agree with Blomquist's idea of landscaping
and alternative 13, thinking the loss of the existing parking
spaces would not be a problem for skier access. Richman said
that was why he liked alternative #2 because it only provided
14 spaces with the option to manage them at the high periods,
using both public spaces and the spaces on the site to handle the
drop-off for the skier and then provide public parking through
the rest of the day.
white asked if alternative #3 was really a problem with the
drop-off to the hotel. White liked the idea of having some
spaces out in front that could be used during the day.
Colombo liked alternative 13 and thought the needs of the applicant
and the public could be internalized within the landscaped
barrier. Colombo said the goal was to accomplish an entry to the
mountain and he felt this was best accomplished by presenting the
landscaped buffer in front rather than parked cars.
Hunt asked about an option in alternatives 12 and 13, instead
of angle parking on the street to use parallel parking. Hunt
asked what number of parking spaces that configuration would
accommodate. The reply was 3 or 4 spaces.
David Fain, Aspen Alps neighbor, asked what the access was to the
ski lift on Ute Ave. Mr. Forsch said it would be a short, flat,
level walk around the building.
Anderson said he agreed with White in that the public parking
should be left on Durant. Anderson preferred alternative '4.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'rIRG PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4. 1986
Peyton said she had doubts that any of the alternatives other
than #5 provided enough drop-off area. Mr. Forsch said the
alternative with the greatest number of parking spaces was 14.
Markalunas said she preferred alternative 14 in that it gave the
option of using both sides of the island for drop-off.
Joe Edwards, concerned citizen, suggested that the possibility
existed for a much more radical solution to all of the problems
associated with this application. Mr. Edwards said most of the
objections to this application have to do with the drop-off
area. The entire building could be flipped 180 so that the
courtyard that is now facing uphill could be facing the street.
Richman 'commented that the Planning Office had spent several
months with the applicant in the conceptual process. The applicant
presented a concept which both the Planning Commission and City
Council have approved with a series of 25 conditions. The
purpose of the precise plan is to determine compliance to those
conditions and compliance with a series of standards within the
code. Richman said while he may be sympathetic to some of
Mr. Edwards ideas he thought the applicant had to be given the
benefit of the doubt in terms of the fact that conceptual approval
was granted to this project with essentially the configuration
that is before the Commission at this time.
Anderson asked the Commissioners for a concensus as to their
opinions of what was the best alternative proposed for the drop-off
area. The issue was discussed. Anderson requested a straw vote:
Alternative #1 0 in favor
Alternative #2 1 in favor
Alternative #3 5 in favor
Alternative .4 2 in favor
Alternative IS 0 in favor
Alternative 13 was the more popular with the Commissioners.
Richman questioned in moving the island out to the street for
landscaping if there wouldn't be people that will still park on the
outside of the island, causing a circulation problem on Durant St.
Anderson said the majority of the Commission was for alternative
#3, the question remains as to whether or not the parking should
remain on Durant St. There were 3 options in that regard: #1
leaving the angle parking on Durant, .2 increasing the island by
putting parallel parking on Durant, and .3 to eliminate all
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'l'ING PLARRING AND ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4. 1986
parking on Durant and internalize it on site. Anderson asked for
a straw vote on those options:
Option II 1 in favor
Option '2 4 in favor
Option .3 3 in favor
The majority opinion of the Commission was to increase the island
and maintain parallel parking on Durant St.
Bill Egar, representing applicant, said there were other issues
that were important, being what kind of environment is created for
the summer. Secondly, understanding what this building will do,
as a presence, to a very important City corner. Mr. Egar said
he mentioned these factors for consideration as the Commission
proceeds through this process.
Motion:
white moved
turned 180
of a second.
to propose that the entire building being proposed be
, as suggested by Joe Edwards. Motion died for lack
parkina
Richman said the issue at hand was the condition stating that the
applicant provide a detail technical study of parking needs,
those needs to include lodge rooms, skiers, administrative
offices, commercial space, and skier support facilities. The
specific language of the condition was that the applicant shall
increase the number of spaces to be provided at the precise plan
stage. Richman said the study had been completed and was enclosed
in this meetings packet. Richman said, based on the applicants
recommendations parking spaces which were 77 at the conceptual
level are now ll8 spaces. Richman reviewed the study explaining
the standards applied. At the conceptual level the Commission
got a commitment from the applicant of .7 spaces per unit. That
also included some of the accessory facilities to the lodge.
Richman said the most difficult thing in this area was dealing
wi th the skier demand. The Aspen Mountain Ski Area Master Plan
dealt with parking for skiers, the intent was to apply a standard.
A 46 space requirement was decided which this applicant committed
to. Richman said he would be uncomfortable to bring this issue
up again, based on the work the Planning Office and the County had
already done with this applicant. Richman said he could not
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'rING PLARRING AND ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4. 1986
recommend the addition of more spaces for the ski area based on
the previous work done.
Tygre asked what parking requi rements were for other properties
in the city. Mr. Egar replied that would be addressed later in
his presentation.
Mr. Egar said there were 4 general points important to all of the
calculations for traffic circulation and parking. Any recreational
community behaves differently in terms of transportation and
parking than the average U.S. city from which most of the data is
derived. Secondly, Aspen is even more different, standing
virtually alone, in having such a high degree of access by air and
other public transportation and so little dependence on the
automobile. Third, in Aspen there is relatively little data
available, therefore, information is derived indirectly from the
information that is known. Finally, the characteristic that
visitors to Aspen travel with very low dependence on the
automobile. Mr. Egar reviewed a table presenting a summary of
their projected demand for parking needs in both winter and summer.
Blomquist said with the new lift on the mountain there would be
1300 new skiers and questioned if there should not be 65 parking
spaces added to what is being shown to accommodate this skier
increase. Richman said the requirement was that the 46 spaces
required in the Master Plan could be provided on or off site, or
through a cash contribution to the city facility. It was up to
the City to initiate, unless they were provided on site, a
parking alternative and then the ASC agreed to participate in a
46 space pro rata share.
Trudy Evason, Aspen Alps owner, said in the discussions and in
looking at the plans submitted she saw nothing indicating that
Spring St. was a dead end. All of the traffic will be going in to
a dead end street. Ms. Evason asked how all of this traffic was
going to be handled. Mr. Forsch replied that area would be
discussed later in their presentation.
Hans Gramiger, concerned citizen, said he did not believe the
parking was addressed properly. If the new lift is built there
will be an increase in use. Parking for skiers is completely
neglected, along with parking for the employees.
Motion:
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'rIRG PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4. 1986
Blomquist moved to increase the 118 parking spaces by 46 additional
spaces, and that the applicant be required to provide a total of
164 parking spaces; White seconded. Anderson asked for a roll
call vote:
Blomquist
White
Hunt
Peyton
Tygre
Markalunas
Anderson
Three in favor,
aye
aye
no
aye
no
no
no
four opposed;
motion NOT carried.
Colombo said he did not think the Ski Company should be responsible
for all of the parking stimulated in that location. Richman said
the philosophy of the Master Plan was that the plan attempted to
deal with the impacts associated with the ski area, leaving the base
area impacts to be dealt with in this application. Richman
recommended the Commission focus on restaurant, retail, administ-
rative offices, and lodge office parking needs and not focus on
skiers on the mountain.
Tygre asked what lodges were used for reference in this applicant's
parking study. Gideon Kaufman, applicant's attorney, said there
were 10 lodges surveyed, being: The Alpina House, North Star,
Brass Bed, Woodstone, Continental, Aspen Inn, Mountain Chalet,
Blue Spruce, Limelite, and the Snowflake. Tygre commented that
none of those properties were as close to the downtown/skier area
as the proposed project but thought the figures being used were a
pretty close comparison for the lodging. Tygre was concerned
about the figures used for the retail usage.
Anderson said he thought the figures used made sense, the applicant
has increased the parking from 77 spaces at the conceptual stage
to ll8 with this submission.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEETING PLARRING AND ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4. 1986
Motion:
Tygre moved to accept the 118 proposed parking spaces; Markalunas
seconded. Anderson asked for a roll call vote:
Blomquist no
White no
Hunt no
Peyton no
Tygre aye
Markalunas aye
Anderson aye
Three in favor, four opposed; motion NOT carried.
Hunt said he voted against this motion because he disagreed with
the parking study which divided the statistics by 2 because people
would be going to the location for at least 2 reasons. Hunt said
he did not think the retail proposed for this building would
justify the division by 2. Hunt asked what effect that would
have on the total numbers. Mr. Egar replied it would double the
number of retail spaces estimated. Richman said the retail
figures were the ones he was the most uncomfortable with. Peyton
agreed with Hunt's comment.
Mr. Gramiger asked if employee parking was required. Richman
replied that the standard requirement for total footage was
applied. Mr. Gramiger thought the requirements should be more
severe because it is the use that dictates the parking needs, not
the zone the building is located in.
Motion:
Tygre moved to approve the proposed 118 parking spaces; Markalunas
seconded. Anderson asked for a roll call vote:
Blomquist no
White no
Hunt aye
Peyton no
Tygre aye
Markalunas aye
Anderson aye
Four in favor, three opposed; motion carried.
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RECORD OFPROCBEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'rING PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4.. 1986
Street Capacity
Richman commented that the situation here was very different from
parking. The Master Plan made no provision for the impact on
city streets associated with this project. Richman questioned the
assumption made in this transportation analysis. What was
called 300 trip ends per day, associated with the mountain capacity
increase, was not calculated in any of this report and Richman
thought it should be. Mr. Egar again reviewed the transportation
study.
Tygre left at 7:25 P.M.
Whi te commented that the Aspen Mountain Lodge had been
and asked how much increased traffic that would generate.
replied that it was a very small number.
Peyton asked if pedestrian traffic had been considered. Mr. Kane
responded that they were suggesting that something in the way the
street was paved and managed strongly and legally emphasize the area
as a pedestrian crossing.
approved
Mr. Egar
Hunt said one of the main pedestrian entrances, that to the
hotel, was missing. He questioned how the pedestrian traffic
would be handled crossing Durant St. at the Spring St. end.
Mr. Egar said their estimate was that there would be about 40
pedestrians crossing at Spring during the peak hour. Hunt then
asked where the cross walk would be placed at that intersection.
Mr. Egar said that would depend on the detail design.
White expressed concern about access on Spring St. for fire
tr ucks. Mr. Kane said a technical rev iew had been conducted by
the Fire Department. The Fire Department had only asked the
applicant to add a 12 inch fire line and hydrant on Spring St.
Hunt asked if the park adjacent to the hotel service dock area
could be used for a cul-de-sac to aid in the turning radius at
the end of Spring St. Mr. Forsch said it would be a good idea
but was not sure if they would be able to get access to the
property. Mr. Kaufman said the Aspen Alps had control of that
parcel of land. Jerry Hewey, manager of the Aspen Alps, said the
park land was donated as a park trust and thought it would be
possible to discuss its use for a cul-de-sac with the Park Assoc.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'rING PLARRING AND ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 4. 1986
Anderson said the actual action on service was to be deferred
because interested members of the public had been sent home.
Motion:
Hunt moved to accept the analysis of the street capacity as
described in condition 19 of the Conceptual SPA, limiting that
action to approving the analysis that applies to Durant St.;
Markalunas seconded. All in favor; motion carried.
Motion:
Hunt moved to continue the public hearing to address Spring
St. circulation, service yards on Spring St., the Tippler, North
of Nell, trail connections, the Dean St. encroachment license,
and initiate a building design, until February 18, 1986; Peyton
seconded. All in favor; motion carried.
Anderson adjourned the meeting at 8:05 P.M.
ci~(j)~d
Kim Wilhoit, Deputy City Clerk
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