HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19870929
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING AND ZONING
SEPTEMBER 29. 1987
Chairman Welton Anderson called meeting to order at 5:00 pm.
ROLL CALL
Answering roll call were Jasmine Tygre, Roger Hunt and Mickey
Herron. Mari Peyton was excused. Jim Colombo and RSlmona
Markalunas arrived shortly after roll call. (ttu~"''<t.:v ..f./.<;<-(/UN'
Welton welcomed Mickey to the P&Z.
COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Jasmine: I understand that Syzygy, the restaurant above
Mephisto's is now open. That is the one that came to us because
of the installation of the dumbwaiter. I assume that since they
are in fact open and service dinners that they did put in the
dumbwaiter. They did come in and asked for the dumbwaiter to be
waived and, with regrets, we decided that since that was part of
the GMP application and one of the conditions was that if a
restaurant went into the second floor that they would do a
dumbwaiter. I would like that to be followed up on and make sure
that that is the case, that the dumbwaiter has been installed.
Roger: I agree with that completely.
Steve: We have noti f ied the Building Department so they are
aware that that is a condition of approval. Whether they were
given a time frame I am not sure.
Jasmine: The other comment I would like to make is about that
the comments in the Aspen Daily News about Mr. Richman. We were
given 2 questionnaires to fill out about what kind of job members
of the Commission thought about how the Planning Office was
doing. I generally rated you favorably and I think that if the
other members of the Commission feel the same way that I would
like to suggest that we make some kind of formal statement to
that effect--that we think that Mr. Richman is doing a good job.
Alan: We were going to resubmit those surveys to the Commission.
Bob Anderson and I talked about that this morning and he would
like us to resubmit it to everybody in an attempt to get a
complete response. We are also going to do an active mailing to
the development community in an attempt to again get a more
complete response on the issue of quality of service and how we
could improve that service. I would encourage the Commission
members. if you don't have copies of that survey, we will get it
into everybody's hands.
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Jasmine: I would like to make a motion that the Planning &
Zoning Commission convey formally perhaps through a resolution a
vote of confidence to the effect that the Commission members feel
that the Planning Office is doing a good job.
Roger seconded this motion with all in favor.
STAFF COMMENTS
There were none.
ASPEN VALLEY HOSPITAL ASSISTED LIVING CENTER REFERRAL
Glenn Horn: We felt it was a good idea to run this by you
because it is right across the street from the City limits. It
is a pretty simple proposal. It is 2 24 unit assisted living
center next to the hospital. We think it makes a lot of sense
for it to be next to the hospital to share the facilities there.
The idea would be that the seniors that now live at the community
center would move over here to this new building. It is on the
knoll that would be on the Maroon Creek side of the hospital as
you are driving up Castle Creek Road. It requires a GMP exempt-
ion and some rezoning in the County. We wanted to get your
comments before it went to the Board.
Roger: I am in favor of the project. But I have one comment
about it and that is that they are showing access directly to
Castle Creek. I think as I recall the grades there, I would
really prefer seeing that connection to the Senior Center by way
of the Hospital road. 2 reasons: There would be one less access
on the Castle Creek Road. I think the grade is even relatively
level if you project the AVH parking access road straight north.
Then from a transportation point of view, it seems to me very
sensible to have the bus end up at the Senior Center so that they
don't have t9.al'1tf.,jlown to Castle Creek Road. It is a logical
staging point "Jus as much as it is by the present intersection
where they stage from.
Glenn: I think that is a real good comment. We have been trying
to work that out right from the very beginning--how to get that
access that way. We haven't come to a conclusion as to how to
get the access road in around the detention pond without having
to redo all the drainage up there. So I can pass that comment
along. It is something we would love to see happen. It would
eliminate a road cut and get the bus up there. I think it is a
really good idea and we will pass it along and try to work on it
again. It is the logical place for it to go.
Roger: I move that the Planning Office prepare a resolution to
the County Planning & Zoning Commission along the lines of our
discussion here and the rationale for the connection of that road
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to be signed by the chairman.
Jasmine seconded the motion with all in favor.
CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING ON GORDON'S SPECIAL REVIEW
Steve: This is a continuation of Gordon's special review on the
staircase. The staff's preference is for option #5. #6 also has
merit given the main concern besides safety is to minimize the
intrusion into the open space.
Harry Teague: We had shown this to quite a few different groups
of people and your reaction caught us a little off guard. We
were not prepared to go through all these options with you last
time so I am glad we have a chance to do it now. The first thing
to bring up is in dealing with the stair. In addition to your-
selves, we have to please the owner of the restaurant, the owners
of the shops in the mall and the owner of the building.
It obviously has to comply with code and it has to meet some
engineering requirements. It is a tricky problem in that we are
attaching a stair to an existing building. There are certain
places where you can attach it because of the structure under-
neath and places where you can't. There are a lot of different
effects. Some of the options that we considered are regarded as
not possible by some of the other groups involved.
The basic problem is that in order to use this space at all, the
occupancy of the space requires that there be another exit out.
The exit out of it in order for it to qualify as an exit has to
be from--it is a code requirement that it be half the distance of
the diagonal away from the other way out of the room.
The other requirements are that the shops want a minimal intrus-
ion on the visibility of their windows. The owner has several
spaces in the area down here that are not rented. Both the owner
and the shop owners like the idea of having Gordon's which is one
of the most successful businesses in the building. Gordon's
customers would see their shops on the way into Gordon's.
After considering all the options, we come back to #8 where it is
important to have people arrive in terms of the internal plan.
There is some flexibility in that. The whole issue of why we are
even doing this particular addition is that the existing entrance
to Gordon's Restaurant is very constricted. It is a very popular
restaurant. He often has lines of people waiting to get in. We
built a little entry that was good enough for the first year that
he was open but now they have people who are lined up out on the
outdoor balcony. This addition serves as the entrance foyer for
the restaurant. The idea in terms of circulation is that they
would enter in this end, wait, the matre d is stationed here and
the restaurant is there.
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The view from this whole south side looks up at Aspen Mountain.
Those tables are prime tables from Gordon's point of view. The
bar is on the other side of the room facing the other way. So
that does not preclude entrance from this side but it is one of
the factors that makes entrance from this side less desireable
from the owner's point of view.
The other issue is that any sort of stair out of this area should
have a minimum impact from the direction of the street and it
also has to receive traffic both coming from the Mill street side
and from the Hopkins street side.
One thing that solves most of the people's requirements is option
#8 and that is the one that we brought in.
The other issue that was brought up is the safety of the stair.
We point out that obviously it conforms to code in every respect.
One of the problems with the existing entrance to Gordon's is
that there is a stairway without a landing in the middle. It was
one of the desires of the owner of the restaurant that whatever
stairway we do have a landing in the middle to break up the
routine of the flight of the stairs.
One of the points brought up was that the stair would drip on
people below it. Unfortunately any stair that comes out of our
structure from this half on, the landing and the stairway is
going to be over some sort of area that is populated. There is
no way to avoid that. On the other hand we are going to solve
the problem 2 ways. For one the stair won't drip. We will
design it so that the stairs are drained and the moisture that is
coming off the stairs will not drip down onto people below.
The second consideration is that except for this passageway right
here the other portions of the stair are over a section of the
courtyard that is a section that is very seldom used. The actual
courtyard itself at this point is in somewhat disrepair. It is a
shame but it is. It is an area that does not have seating in it.
The way the stairway intrudes on the courtyard now is minimal.
The problem is that we have a conflict of interests in that the
tenants want people to see the stairway as an interesting object
from Mill Street and this other area in order to attract
customers in. On the other hand they want it to be somewhat
transparent in that they want people from both directions to be
able to see through whatever we do and see that there are other
shops in the courtyard.
Some of you mentioned that the stair should be more substantial.
The issue on that is that it is meant to be somewhat trans-
parent. That is why the open riser situation rather than closed
risers so that you see light through it.
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The other issue in that regard is that we have a month and a half
to do the entire construction on this whole building and the
stairway as part of it will be fabricated off site and have to be
installed in an extremely short amount of time with minimal
interruptions to the people in the other shops. We have to be
done with this project by Thanksgiving. The idea that the stair
be a fabricated stairway with minimal foundation is one of the
things that generated this particular design.
The third basic ca tegory is the design. In orde r to lesson the
impact from the street which is one of the things mentioned by
you all, we omitted the enclosure at the top of the stairs and
absorbed that into the building so that the door sets inside the
recess instead of having an enclosure that pops out over the
stair. That eliminates the weight loads in that we don't need to
accommodate the snow load on the roof of that structure. Now we
feel that it will be possible to eliminate the brace that went
diagonally from its edge down to the side of the building.
The other thing that we have eliminated that was obviously an
extended protrusion was the light pole that was sticking up in
the middle. That is not necessary.
The stair is reduced to its most m~n~mum components.
railing and a stair and is going from point A to point
just basically what has to be done.
Welton: My first reaction is that eliminating that vestibule and
the diagonal brace improves it 1,000%.
It is a
B doing
Roger: It is better. I don't like the f ire escape appearance
extension off that end of the building. None of these options I
like as is but with miner modification I think one can be very
acceptable. On option #8 if you shift over to where you have the
entrance on option #5 or the entrance on that back corner, you
streetscape wise, eliminate all that walkway.
Jasmine: I agree with Roger. I think that moving the entrance
away from that hall, the building would really improve the view
from Hopkins considerably.
Wel ton: I think it comes off a little bit as a fire escape on
the model but I don't think it will come off that way in real
life if it is done with stainless steel.
Jim: I just think if you get the visualities off of Hopkins
Street and doesn't shoot quite as far into the mall area, coming
up the arcade from Mill Street it is going to be pretty predom-
inant coming through there. I wonder how much that is going to
close off the light--one of the nice features of that plaza right
now is the way it opens up coming up Mill Street and with that
going all the way across the entire front of it, you are going to
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lose most of that light.
Harry: People in the surrounding area supported the type of
stair that we are proposing. They feel that this stair will
actually help and contribute to the mall area.
Joe: Jasmine expressed a concern that if she were a tenant of
the space she would oppose this location. I am presenting a
petition which the other tenants of the building are in favor of
the original location in terms of their business. There is some
concern on the part of Mill Street Kids who is one of the
signatories about impacting on their storefront. All the tenants
are out of town but most of the tenants have signed in support.
Jim: I think this is a great improvement. It looks much better.
But I lean toward #5.
Harry: #5 as it is shown would probably not be acceptable to the
Kids people. That is the problem with #5. Now #5 as you propose
it as moving #8 over does not have that exact same injection
although it becomes incremental. #5 as it is shown does not have
a landing in the middle. If you put the landing in the middle,
then it extends across most of the south place and you wind up
entering our space in the lease desireable space in addition to
having the stairways in front of the Kid's Shop.
Welton: I don't like #5 because it parallels the opening into
the courtyard and I think it would block more from Hopkins, the
perceived openness in that space. I would entertain a motion to
approve as presented in this model as long as the diagonal brace
that made it look like a little tacked on on the side of the
building.
Harry: We will do everything we can to leave it out entirely.
It is a structural problem and the brace does solve the problem.
If we say OK we can make it contingency that in doing that we do
not have the brace. We will figure out a way to solve it.
Gordon: I own Gordon's. The whole reason we are enclosing the
space is to make our restaurant more comfortable. We have one
of the most spectacular views of any restaurant in town. If you
have ever eaten lunch out on our patio and know if we enclose
that and are unable to utilize that year 'round the most attract-
ive thing about that space is the view towards Aspen Mountain.
By shifting this staircase in, I am going to be losing the most
attractive feature about enclosing that which is the view.
Motion
Roger: I will move that we approve a modification of option #8 so
that the door is on the south facing wall and that platform is
shifted to the west to accommodate that door.
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Jasmine seconded the motion.
Har ry: That is just the point we are making.
that view.
You are losing
Roger: He is losing a table.
Harry: We also have the problem of moving the structure out more
toward the fountain so we get more intrusion on the open space.
Jim: How far into the fountain are you now?
Harry: I think it is 10 ft.
Jim: Is that over half way?
Harry: No, it is not. Halfway is represented by this column
here and should be a little bit less.
Jim: Are any of these approvals here from people down below?
Gordon: Yes. The shop on the ground floor immediately below next
to Kid's is very exc i ted about it. Most of the tenants are
incredibly excited about this. I don't know if you noticed how
many vacancies are on that garden level but 80% of my Clients
enter and exit on Hopkins Street, go straight upstairs to the
restaurant and straight back down to their car when they leave.
This reorientation is going to make a much better pedestrian flow
by my clients going in front and through by the other shops.
The stairs which I inherited from the Ritz I was never happy
with. It is a very steep stair that is always in the shade and
people fall on it. And even though we have snowmelt on it,
because it is steep it still gets icy.
Welton: There is a motion on the floor. Is there discussion.
Harry: If you accept this motion, does that prevent us from
trying to get the situation as we have presented to you?
Roger: I find that most objectionable.
Welton: If the motion is passed then the stairway is moved.
Roger: In final discussion in favor of my motion I find that a
minimal impact on your whole thing. You do lose 1 table in that
viewplain. However, that is really not my problem. That is more
of an economic problem from your standpoint. I am looking at it
from the aesthetics of the street and I find that configuration
the way you have it most objectionable and it could be solved
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very satisfactorily by moving one walkway width to the left. I
think that is a very reasonable solution.
Welton: On the other hand, in final discussion, I would prefer
that the motion be defeated and that we accept it as they
presented it. It is a vast improvement by eliminating the
vestibule. It is an improvement over the previous design. I
don't feel comfortable designing, theoretically, in a public
meeting and I think that curved balcony on the east side of the
wing is going to be very attractive.
Roger: Call a question.
Welton: All in favor?
Answering in favor were Roger and Jasmine.
Opposed were Jim, Ramona, Mickey and Welton.
MOTION
Welton: I would entertain a motion to approve it as presented.
Ramona: I so move.
'5""-''''
Jim: I will second if we can have discussion. The pole there is
like coming down right into a pedestrian walk area. I can't
really tell where it is coming down.
Harry: The pedestrian is mainly underneath the overhangs created
by the walkways that run around the area. This is pretty much
what would be called open space. That particular part of the
open space is used by people in good weather just cutting across
diagonally. In bad weather they probably stay under the edges.
Jim: What is your method of keeping snow being kicked off onto
people down below.
Harry: We are going to snowmelt the stair and so it will turn it
to water. The concept is that the stair drains on itself. The
water is carried to the side of the stairs and gets channeled
which keeps the water on the stair until it is drained.
Jim: I would withdraw my second but would second a motion that
was amended to include that the stairway did provide internal
drainage and that the angle brace coming off the first landing
would be eliminated as it is shown. Should it have to be used we
would have to see some other proposal.
Ramona: I amend my motion.
Jim: I amend my second.
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Welton: Discussion?
steve: This is part of the bonus FAR review. The first condit-
ion which pertains to employee housing would not be changed. Is
that correct?
Welton: All the other previous conditions remain the same.
All in favor?
Roll call vote: Jasmine, no, Roger, no, Ramona, yes, Jim, yes,
Mickey, yes, Welton, yes.
Motion carried.
Meeting was adjourned. The time was 5:45 pm.
Deputy Clerk
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