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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
MAY 17. 1988
Chairman Welton Anderson called the meeting to order at 4:30 pm.
Answering roll call were Roger Hunt, David white, Michael Herron,
Ramona Markalunas and Welton Anderson. Jim Colombo, Mari Peyton
and Jasmine Tygre were excused.
COMMISSIONER' S COMMEN'.rS
David: When you drive by the golf course at night now there are
these 2 Pepsi signs.
Michael: Those signs have been there for years. I am sure the
signs can be disconnected from the machine without any loss
because people are only buying during the day and don't need the
lights at night.
Michael: Would it be appropriate for us to make a recommendation
to City Council that they give some kind of thanks or
proclamation on behalf of both the Board and City Council
thanking steve Burstein for his service to these Boards?
There was agreement on this suggestion. Michael made a motion to
this effect. David seconded the motion with all in favor.
Welton: One thing that has been on my mind for quite some time
is an analysis of the six month minimum lease and if it is
accomplishing anything close to what we want it to accomplish.
We are experiencing a second wave of second home ownership. If
there is any kind of example in another city or if there is any
kind of solution to the problem of vacant units that aren't doing
anybody any good.
All of the stuff we approved for Main Street and Original Curve
is going to end up being very expensive second homes. Where I
live 3 units sold recently. They sold to out-of-town people who
are going to be using them for 2 weeks in the winter and 2 weeks
in the summer and they are not going to be doing anybody any good
the rest of the time.
The 6 month minimum lease guarantees they won't necessarily be
short term but I think in some cases short term would be better
than long or better than no terming. Any kind of way of
preserving the stock of housing that we have.
Alan: What we have heard from Council on this is areal
commitment to maintaining the regulation. There is going to be
a work session with City Council regarding a list of priority
items to be worked on and we will add this to the list.
PZM5.17.88
Welton: I don't have any problem with the 6 month mlnlmum lease
in concept. But I don't think it addresses or solves this
particular problem.
David: When we were going through with Council at the last
session there was brought up the idea of some kind of code for
permanent resident. There was interest in that. There has to be
some way of preserving the permanent resident.
They are hav ing a problem in Hawai i and the Mayor of Honolulu--
there is something going on along with that and they are looking
because the Japanese are buying up everything and the people who
live there can't afford anything anymore. So they are looking at
some kind of permanent resident solution.
Welton: Another item that is worthy of being added to the list
is the preservation of essential services such as gas stations.
Alan: That is on the list already.
MINUTES OF MARCH 22 & APRIL 12. 1988
Roger made a motion to table adoption of these minutes to the
next regular meeting.
Ramona seconded the motion with all in favor.
RITZ-CARLTON POD/GNP AMENDMEN'.r (CONT. TO 6/28)
Alan: We are asking you to continue the Ritz to a date certain
of June 28, 1988 based on the expectation that Parry will be
submitting something to us in the next week or 10 days and it
will take a few weeks for us to get through it since there are
some significant changes that occurred with the Council.
Michael: At one time we considered at the Ritz's request, and I
think we approved it here regarding the tandem parking issue that
City Council just jumped all over. But is there a way to br ing
that back to be considered less emotionally? It seemed to be
logical and made a lot of sense.
Alan: I have already talked to Parry and John Sarpa about doing
that. I have asked them on this submission to try and be
comprehensive in terms of bringing all the changes that have
occurred during the process so that in one document we will all
be up to speed.
Welton re-opened the public hearing and continued the public
hearing to June 28, 1988.
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PUBLIC HEARING
212 W. HOPKINS HISTORIC DESIGNATION
Roxanne: This is a wonderful home that deserves to be
designated. It is rated a 4. It was built in 1888. This was a
small miner's cottage that is in very good condition. HPC's
recommendation for designation included a condition volunteered
by the applicant that the front porch be restored or made
transparent. I understand now that the front porch is going to
be restored.
The proposed development is a 2 story addition which will be
attached to the rear portion of the property as the plans
ref lect.
Welton asked Jan Darrington if he had any problems with the
conditions for designation.
Jan: The owner has not given us negative feedback. He was
hoping to keep the porch enclosed. If it is a matter of trading
the porch for the addition he is going to give up the porch
enclosure. We haven't heard anything to the contrary so we are
proceeding on that basis.
We have made some modifications to the height of the structure as
recommended by the HPC. We are well within the existing zoning
regulations.
Wel ton asked for questions from the Commissioners.
none.
There were
MOTION
Roger: I move to recommend historic designation to the structure
at 212 W. Hopkins with condition from the Planning Office of memo
dated May 17, 1988. (attached in records) that the front porch
be restored or be made transparent as volunteered by the
applicant.
Michael seconded the motion.
Ramona: Are they changing the appearance of the original house?
Jan: They are adding to the rear of the house.
changing the existing house at all.
We are not
Everyone voted in favor of the motion.
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212 W. HOPKINS PARKING REDUCTION SPECIAL REVIEW
Tom Baker: The P&Z has the authority to do that to historically
designated structures. And in talking to Roxanne I understand
that the site is very sensitive to the addition but that does
mean that they are constrained in terms of parking in the read.
By having the addition of the garage back as far as it does sit,
it does have access off the alley, preserves vegetation, and
preserves the historic character of the house.
The staff really does not have a problem with reducing the off-
street parking from the required 4 spaces to 2.
Welton opened the public hearing and asked for comments. There
were none so he closed the public hearing. He then asked for
comments from the Commissioners. There were none.
MOTION
Roger: I move to grant to 212 W. Hopkins Special Review Approval
for reduction of on-site parking requirement from 4 spaces to 2
spaces subject to historic landmark designation of the property.
Michael seconded the motion with all in favor.
MARTIN CONDOMINIUMIZATION
311 GILLESPIE AND 710 NORTH THIRD
Michael excused himself from this hearing as he is the
applicant's attorney.
Cindy Houben: This is a request by Bill and Mary Martin to
condominiumize the units on their 2 properties located at 311
Gillespie and 710 N. Third Street. The Planning Office has no
problem with granting the condominiumization.
The Martins are requesting the waiving of the minimum lease
restriction on the unit that has been a rental unit on the
property at 311 Gillespie.
Neither the new or old code allows us to waive in the R-6 zone
district--the 6 month minimum lease restriction. Therefore I am
suggesting that that be maintained.
The Engineering Department had several issues which they brought
up as conditions of approval. They noted that a condominium plat
should be presented as well as adding and constructing a 5 ft
sidewalk along the right-of-way on the North 3rd. Street
frontage. This was an issue that came up in Resolution #19 of
the City Council.
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Bill Martin: I don't have any trouble with the 6 months minimum
lease restriction. We have owned the property since 1960. The
property has never been rented long term. We have kept it for
our children and we occasionally rent it for 6 months or less.
But there is no problem on that issue. So if you all are not
inclined to waive that, I don't see any problem with it.
I do have a problem though with the requirement of building a
sidewalk. There is absolutely no other sidewalk on all of 3rd.
Street and I find it unacceptable for the City to even bring this
up. If they want all the occupant s on 3 rd Street to create
sidewalks then there must be other ways of doing it. Can you
imagine my property having a sidewalk and the property right next
door not having a sidewalk. I can't understand their reasoning.
A 5 ft setback on that lot would destroy the historical
designation of that unit because the old homes were built close
to the roads and with the way 3rd St. was placed in there, it
will put the sidewalk within 3 ft of the property line.
One of the conditions Hammond wants is to help easement for the
transformer on the southwest corner of the property. I have
al ready told them they can have the easement. It is already
built. So I don't see why they throw that in there. I do want
to negotiate with the City because I permitted them to put it on
my property at no cost to them. Now I want to see if I can't get
them to put--I am already underground on my property on
electricity. But I want to see what they will do to put the
electricity from there to the pole. So that, to me, is a little
bit unreasonable too because I have already given them the right-
of-way. It is built.
Cindy: They just want it to be shown on the map.
welton: what would be the difference between requiring the
sidewalk being put in now and letting it be contingent on an
improvement district sometime down the road when it could all be
done at once?
Bill: If they want that condition that is fine.
else builds a sidewalk, I will build a sidewalk.
If everybody
Ramona: I don't believe the sidewalk condition has come up on
any of the new construction on 3rd.
David: There has been a couple of new construction around there
and we didn't require them to put in sidewalk. I don't think it
is fair if we didn't require sidewalks of them to require it in
this case. I would like to see it down there all the way but not
just piecemeal.
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Roger: The sidewalk should be designed with a master overview.
Cindy: I am sure Jay is going to ask for an encroachment permit
so the porch on the old house be applied for and granted prior to
the signature of the plat.
Bill: We are going to have to make an application for the
consideration of that because the second house is actually 18
inches on city property.
Cindy: So I suggest that a condition to state that the applicant
shall apply for an encroachment permit for the 311 Gillespie
house for the house and porch area and that this be granted prior
to the signature of the plat.
MOTION
Roger: I make a motion approval of the condominiumization of the
Martin parcel at the corner of 3rd and Gillespie. Conditions 1
and 2 being the same conditions as the Planning Office memo dated
May 17, 1988. (attached in records)
And new condition 3--applicant shall apply for encroachment
license for the house on Gillespie and be granted prior to
condominiumization plat approval.
And condition 4 being the same as on Planning Office memo dated
May 17, 1988. (attached in records)
Ramona seconded the motion with all in favor.
HARMON GROUP CONDOMINIUMIZATIONl214 LAKE AVENUE
Cindy Houben: This is a request for condominiumization of 214
Lake Avenue. The applicants are requesting condominiumization
for separate ownership purposes and the Planning Office has no
problem with the request. The applicants understand the 6 month
minimum lease restriction requirement and the Planning Office is
recommending approval with conditions.
Lennie Oates: Apparently Mr. Chiffon made some sort of deal with
the next door neighbors whereby the next door neighbors would get
better frontage on Hallam Lake and then the front duplex which
fronts on Lake Avenue would then get a better front yard. The
comment that Jay Hammond made with respect to this is that it
appears to be some sort of a back-handed lot line adjustment.
We don't disagree with that. The position, and I would like to
go ahead and have you guys go ahead and somehow author ize us or
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recommend depending on what the procedure is and I am sorry I
didn't get a chance to look at it. Let me shortcut that step so
I can go to the next step with a formal lot line adjustment to
get this straightened away.
That is to assume that I am going to get the co-operation of the
next door neighbor. I think it is in everybody's best interest
to get it squared away. If I can't I am just stuck with what I
have today. There are no problems with the other conditions.
MOTION
Roger: I move to recommend approval of the Harmon Group
Condominiumization of Lot 17 with the following conditions: 1
through 3 being identical to Planning Office memo dated May 17,
1988. (attached in records)
Condition 4 being changed to read "The applicant shall apply for
a lot line adjustment between Lot 16 and 17".
Ramona seconded the motion with all in favor.
LITTLE NELL HOTEL SPA AMENDMEN'.r
This is tape #1 side 2 which is completely garbled.
Tape #2, side 1.
Fred: At that time The Aspen Skiing Company was prepared to
operate the hotel with its sister company Pebble Beach and began
discussion with them to more formally put the whole thing
together. The schematic design was completed in August of 1986.
There was a per iod of time then that we worked on design
development stage of the hotel which took us into 1987,
approximately July of 1987.
During that time we worked with a couple of people who are very,
very good with hotels who had some additional ideas. We also at
the end of the process had discussed a Little Nell's bar that was
probably significantly different than what Little Nell's was just
before it was torn down. It was a 2,832 sqft 2-story structure
that was to be more in line with a hotel that was going to cater
more to the luxury side.
Subsequent to those approvals and the ends of those discussions
we have had the opportunity to reflect on that determination and
also had a number of conversations with an awful lot of people
who had very strong feelings about what Little Nell's should be
and what it should be like and who we should cater to. The
design modifications you can see are the product of those
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discussions and those clarifications as to what makes this hotel
operate better, what makes this hotel look better and what makes
this hotel, in terms of a Little Nell Bar, a more affordable ski
oriented, locals oriented place to go.
John Cottle, architect: The sandstone base that is going to be
added is shown right at the base all the way around. This
replaces what had been proposed as a color change and obviously
sandstone has a place in Aspen's history and is a nicer material.
This will have no effect on the height.
We are going to replace the small sloped roofs at the third level
and replace them with flat decks. The decks that we are
proposing go in where the small roofs are around the courtyard.
They do a couple of things. First of all they become very
effective snow stops. Secondly the early concept of the hotel
has always been to keep your eye down at a 2-story mass. That
has always been one of the strong concepts of the hotel. Then on
a day to day basis people can get out and use the decks. So it
becomes more of a people oriented space from both Durant and the
hotel courtyard.
As far as the visual mass of it there it is always broken by the
smaller roofs or the larger dormers so there is never a long
unbroken run of it.
The snow skirt: During the approval process we had discussed a 5
ft snow skirt. We are now proposing a 2 ft snow skirt. There
are a lot of reasons why that is appropriate. First of allover
a large part of the building, we now have flat decks. So instead
of going from sloped roof to sloped roof to snow skirt it stops
at a flat deck is snowmelted internally and drained internally so
there are no drips and it stops at a higher elevation.
The scale of this roof is really of a residential scale. It is
not as if we have an acre and a half under roof that slides
towards us.
We also committed to provide snow stops.
the roof that are continuous rods so that
They are 3 of the most effective European
avalanche potential at different levels.
and continue as drip or stay there rather
There are 3 rows along
the snow cannot slide.
designs used. It stops
It allows it to melt
than build up.
Roger pointed out a potential problem at a double dormer on the
shady side of the building which would funnel snow all to one
spot and then during freeze-melt time form a great icicle.
John said he had not tracked an icicle path off that roof and
would do so.
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Roger: The only other potential problem place might be the
porte-cochere.
Fred: The Little Nell's portion of the hotel is almost exactly
in the same location and elevation it was. The deck will be
substantially larger and this edge along here will have a
planter in it with vegetation. The planter is to keep some
separation from the hotel space from the after ski space.
As you can see in this final proposal there is no second story
deck and we committed to working with a grand entrance into
Aspen. There was a great deal of discussion which evolved around
the grand entrance and what was finally accomplished at the City
Council level was to remove a large dormer that existed at this
portion of the building. We felt dur ing the course of
development if removed would allow that part of the sloped roof,
the hip element, would just simply open up more so we got rid of
that.
What our concept is at present and is now evolving into final
form is to provide, unlike what we talked about at the approval
process and in fact were marked down on the GMP scoring--we
intend to provide something that is ski oriented, something that
is Colorado, something that is felt to be an enjoyable place to
enter into that if you spill a beer, we can wipe it up and not
shampoo it out--a non-cushy, non-posh, non-glitzy kind of place
that college students or anyone coming to Aspen can feel
comfortable walking through the door.
We also want to provide a deck at the second level in order to
establish the opportunity of a breakfast place in the summer time
as more and more of the activities in the summer time are
beginning to center at this portion of town because of the
operation of the gondola.
John: One of the points in Alan's memo was the height of the
roof. In the final approval process the roof stepped down right
in here to a lower ridge. There is cur rently a 4th level right
in there. In fact this is a mechanical grill. The only purpose
for that 4th level is to enclose the equipment for the
restaurant. The mechanical is all underneath this roof. That is
a pretty prominent element.
Fred: Back in December of 1985 David asked the question, when we
were originally talking about this and the 22 ft height and what
would go above that 22 ft height is what would the height of that
mechanical be and Larry responded "Someplace in the neighborhood
of 25 ft". That comment stimulated an awful lot of additional
looking at so we could cover that because the building and how it
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appears is not only important
important as to what it looks
is why we are coming back with
from the streetscape but
like from the mountain.
this.
is very
And that
Lar ry: Our response to the 22 ft we did remove this and this
extended a little further but the resultant viewplain is better
than the original representations with that dormer in. We think
it nets out as improvement in a couple of ways. It takes care of
the visual issue by keeping it open and it gives Little Nell's
Bar about the size of the one that exists rather than the 2800
sqft version of it.
Fred: The main issue in that was the grand entrance. We have
retained these photographs of the computer model that were done
with the dormer in place. Today we did a new set that looks at
the same points and shows what the new building looks like in
terms of that same entrance with the design modification we are
discussing.
John: The 22 ft that keeps coming up was to the break point
where the eave occurs, where the roof breaks back. It never was
22 ft from this deck to the top of the roof. And that was really
unclear in the minutes. But also if you look at the model of the
town, this is 22 ft vs. 44 that the North of Nell is.
Welton: That was one of the most heavily discussed corners of
the building and I remember that I wanted to see that whole
Hunter Street extension widened and the plaza widened at the
expense of the building. The rest of the Commissioners seemed to
be willing to go with stepping that roof back and then down more
so that it visually opened it out and up the mountain.
Looking at the drawings that were approved in the Planning Office
a few weeks ago with Cindy. The amount of increase in roof
height is not consistent with the way the discussion went and
what was approved. I understand your need or your desire to want
to hide the mechanical equipment. There has got to be another
way of doing it. There was a dramatic drop in that roof line
that came about as a result of a lot of concerns on the part of
the Commission. Now the roof is back up there again.
Alan: That is exactly the point that I am raising.
really have a concern about increasing size.
I don't
Welton: I think increasing the size is wonderful.
Alan: I don't see the need to do it at the cost of more building
in that area. I looked back and saw my reference in the process
wanting to keep that plaza from feeling like there was a big
building on the west side and a big building on the east side.
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Fred: That is the reason I had those computer simulations
redone. It was to try to give you a feel that it is not so much
the roof height but the way the roof slopes back at the eave
lines.
Larry: We had taken the primary issue which was the one of that
view. It is lower now as a result of manipulating these forms
not only account for the openness of it but account for the
increased size of Little Nell. I would really like to hide the
mechanical equipment. The point is that it is more open now and
has a better visual site plain now than it did.
Welton: It is less open than in the negotiated roof line that
came about as a result of a lot of discussions.
John: The step was a maximum of 7 ft at which there would then
be mechanical equipment that would go back up into that.
Larry: Also what your sketch doesn't show is that there was an
approved dormer here.
Welton: Isn't that dormer in roughly the same location?
John: This rendering has the taller dormer there and the roof
stepping down that you are talking about. This is to show
comparison as to the impacts as far as opening out.
Fred: It has an enti rely different feel. But both plazas cape
and mountainscape I really think hiding that mechanical wi th a
peaked roof is a far superior design.
Roger: I have to agree with them. The only place where that
roof height is a factor is on the Dean streetscape. That is the
only place where you will really see that that height is of any
significance and I don't have a problem with it if it is covering
the mechanical. I know how obnoxious that mechanical can be.
Welton: You see it for the entire width of Durant that it is not
obscured by this thing. It is not until you get really closer to
Hunter Street that you lose them.
Larry: But I think you are sitting down at the Red Onion. You
gotta be up here--and that is what the computer simulation does.
It takes it from the newspaper rack on Durant and Hunter.
Welton: We are not back to where it was in the first place but
pretty close. If the rest of the Commission doesn't have any
problem with it then I am only one vote.
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Fred: Our attempt here is not to create new space. It does add
to the mass of the building in order to cover the mechanical
equipment.
Welton: Which should have been factored in the mechanical workup
and factored in.
Fred: It was. It was discussed in December and it was
determined that the mechanical equipment should show above the
building. It has just been something very difficult to relieve.
welton: The roofscape is allover Aspen.
Larry: This is a roofscape that we are going to be looking down
on as a skier. We really don't want it junked up.
Welton: I have always had other things on my mind as I was
skiing down Little Nell other than the roof there. I never once
recollected looking at the roof of the old Little Nell's.
Fred: There was an awful lot of stuff up there and it looked
bad.
Roger: I like it covered.
David: I like it covered but I tend to agree with Welton.
Welton: I did meet with Mark Penthorn on this very issue in the
Planning Office. I said "What if you have your equipment in the
side of that main thing so that you can step it down to this
point?"
Larry: We think we have the best solution. It really
accommodates all of your prior requests and issues and we sure
would like to have you go along with us on this.
Fred: This is a building, like Michael said, that people are
going to look at for a long, long time and more people will
probably see it coming down from the mountain than look at it
from any other viewplain.
Larry: It is an issue that we will work with but I would hope
that you can see the value of all the work that has been put into
it to try to bring the lines naturally stepped down.
Welton: I realize that it is a good solution to solving the
mechanical problem but in comparing it with the first set of
drawings that raised a lot of red flags because people were
afraid that from the vantage points in here that it was getting
too tight. I want to move this whole thing over 6 or 10 feet.
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The compromise that was worked out at that time which seemed to
satisfy the other Commissioners, was if you take a significant
amount out of this roof you are going to get more of a view of
the bottom part of Little Nell.
Larry: I think we have gone to a lot of trouble with the
perceptual lssues. As I said we have a more wide open viewplain
than we did. We have worked with that hard to make that happen.
The fact that the roof is up there hiding the mechanical doesn't
alter that view one bit. In fact it is more open and with the
added benefit of hiding the mechanical. So we think this is
definitely better even though, by the letter of the law, looking
at the elevation there is a difference. We made what we thought
was a tradeoff. It netted more positively toward the issues you
initially raised.
Ramona: I would like to see the mechanical covered.
Welton: I would like to see the mechanical covered too but not
at the expense of raising what was negotiated down.
Michael: I wasn't here for the initial concept but I do like the
idea of the mechanics being covered.
Welton: I hate to compromise a stand that we negotiated in the
SPA process because the sketch neglected to take into account the
mechanicals. I realize we have to have a lot of air-moving
equipment now so what we showed you before was just pretty
pictures and we couldn't do it.
Lar ry: We have mitigated that perceptual issue.
than it was.
It is better
Welton: This simulation I think a large portion of this light
blue roof, if it was lowered, would be out of the way behind the
dormer and you see just a touch more than now. I am not
convinced that you can't do a different sort of treatment and
still accommodate the mechanical in something that is not that
high. You are not going to have any mechanical equipment in the
top 3 ft of this roof.
Larry: We don't want a flat roof up there either in the top 3 ft
of the roof.
MOTION
Welton: I would entertain a motion that they further study that
corner with an eye toward reducing the height but still shielding
the mechanical equipment under a roof form that would be visually
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less objectional than seeing the mechanical equipment.
to be done with staff making the review.
David: I so move. Conceptually I want to see it covered. What
I want to see is you guys work at it as much as you can. If it
is going to be something that is not possible then I can
understand that.
This is
Michael seconded the motion.
Roger: I am going to vote against this motion because I am in
favor of their solution to this problem. I can foresee what they
can come up with as an alternative and that is, yes, basically
they will lower the roof line. Maybe they will leave it open on
the top so you can probably still see it from coming down. You
haven't accomplished anything because in the process of lowering
it they have made vertical walls instead of the peaked roof. I
think this is just a ruinous motion and it should be defeated.
Welton: You convinced mel
My response to this is I am not going to second-guess what the
designers are going to come up with. I am sure they are going to
come up with one of two things. They are going to come up with
something that satisfies our concerns that is much better or they
are going to come up with something that is so atrocious that
we are going to flop back to this.
Michael: I would just like to send a message out that I would
rather see them come back with this and say it is the best they
can do than come up with some crap.
Ramona: Me too.
Larry: That is where we are now. We have spent since July of
1986 playing with this thing and this is where we are. The
luxury of time has now passed. And so we need to build what you
are approving this evening because we have steel guys building
steel right now and we have got to tell them yes or no.
welton: I think that is great. I just don't think it is fair
that everybody that goes through these types of processes to make
promises that they don't deliver on.
Fred: Our purpose here was to introduce the deck, introduce the
little bit larger structure and at the same time create some
additional mass to cover it. If that is not acceptable I can
accept that and we will go ahead and work with Alan to do
something about it.
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Alan: You understand that this has got to go to the Council.
Fred: I understand. We will work as hard as we can on this.
What I am suggesting is that I have watched this design since
December of 1985 and I have watched these architects work with
this and I have watched them stumble and discuss and try to
figure what is going to work best. I have watched 3 separate
hotel people go through this whole thing and everybody deal with
the same problem because there was a great deal of discussion on
it and I think what they have established here is what they think
aesthetically is the best resolve knowing full well that it
exceeds some of the height discussions. And that is why we had a
model made. That is why we brought it back here. We felt that
we have accomplished to the best degree that we could and
aesthetically resolved hiding that equipment.
If what is desired here is to go back and flatten the roof out,
double dormer it, leave some of the stuff sticking out, that is
what we will do.
Welton: The motion was to restudy it in an effort to lower it
but still accomplish hiding the mechanical equipment underneath a
roof form rather than being exposed.
Fred: This isn't conceptual design. We have been working with
the mechanical guys for a long time now and there is a platform
that sits up in here--a false platform that sits up in that that
holds that amount of mechanical equipment. As you begin to strip
that thing away from this platform, something has to happen.
The platform can't move.
Michael: That is why I asked you "Is this the best we can get?"
If this is the best we can get and you are going to tell us that
then fine I am prepared to vote against the motion. But if you
can look at it and possibly come up with something different--
Fred: I would not have brought it here if I thought there was
something different that could be done that would accomplish what
Welton suggests.
Larry: The issue is a perceptual one. To think with all that is
going on up here that somebody is going to notice that little
difference from the perspective of a pedestrian walking in here,
the difference is really almost ludicrous
The vote on the motion was 2 in favor and 3 against.
DECKS AT THE 3RD & 4TH LEVEL OF THE ASPEN ALPS END OF BUILDING
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Fred: To preface for this, as you remember we also discussed the
step-downs here. This corner of the building will probably be a
most desirable a space in terms of a hotel room as any place in
Aspen. One of the GMP questions that came out was your
dissatisfaction with the amount of conference, seminar and
meeting space which was included in this hotel.
We also believed it ourselves. It was not satisfactory. We
spent a great deal of time in discussions with our ownership as
to how we might change that. what has evolved is adding some
deck space to 2 of the floors. We changed the interior space of
the rooms so that they may not only be used as suites but they
would also provide for very superior type of meeting space for
things like weddings and places for 50 to 60 people to have a
cocktail party in the afternoon in the spring as well as all
summer. with our conference space being on one level
underground, we think that the addition of these decks is far
superior to creating only seminar space for 1 or 2 rooms and that
that was one of the principle driving forces behind this.
We have discussed this issue at length with representatives of
the Aspen Alps. They concur that there had not been enough
change for them comment negatively to the design modification.
John: As Alan points out we need to terminate the building using
the same elements that started the rest of the design. We have
beveled most of the corners of the building both at the large
scale and the small scale and we have continued that. Another
element we have used in a number of cases, at the porte-cochere
and other elements, is that we have taken the roof of what is a 4
story building and tried to bring it down as low as we can which
brings the scale down closer to a human pedestrian level. So
this roof material comes all the way basically to the ground. So
basically it terminates the building here as it does at the
porte-cochere and then at the apres ski.
And then this little jewel box that terminates this whole hotel
at this point is only 12 ft wide. It really terminates in a real
small jewel-like element that is wrapped in glass. At night, of
course, it will be lighted up and quite transparent.
The decks that are being proposed are tucked inside of the
existing dormers here. There is an increase in this area of 900
sqft in the C zone.
Alan: I just think there was a delicateness about the previous
approach that was much more angular and this just doesn't feel as
good to me. Not hav ing spent a lot of time looking at that
corner in the review process. I don't think we focused near as
much on this side of the building as we did the Durant.
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Fred: The Aspen Alps people have looked at it real close and we
discussed this and the reasons for it and the purposes behind it
and again I say that Mr. Huey and Sonny Vann who represents the
Aspen Alps comments that they do not see a significant
modification in this enough to comment either way.
Alan: It seems to me that the other finish to that corner of the
building was much more successful.
Michael: It seems to me that what Alan is saying is that unless
you are living at the Aspen Alps you are never going to know the
difference anyway.
Welton:
this.
Those people who see the mechanical are going to see
Michael: We were just talking a minute ago that when we skied
down, we never noticed what was at Little Nell's which was crap.
We are not going to notice this. I think there is a positive
trade off. I think the idea of having space up there that is
available for the people in town for weddings or small parties is
really a nice benefit. I just don't see how the people living in
Aspen, other than the people living in Aspen Alps, are really
effected by one design as opposed to the other.
Larry: At the last operational review we really felt that those
decks were important. They are a kind of space that the rest of
the hotel doesn't have. They are the best view being on that
end. I think that the end benefit is that we will have people on
those decks whereas before we didn't.
Roger: I generally like that idea of the decks. My only
comment about it is that it would look to me better if it
appeared to step back more. The second floor is tending to stick
out a little bit. Other than that I like it.
Welton: I agree with Roge r . Maybe the first one needs to come
out more.
David: I like the concept of this. If some kind of a slight
modification could be done in order to step this down, it is not
normal for me but I would give more square footage. The concept
is real good and there is a benefit there for the community. I
really like these decks.
Welton: The Planning Office can look at this and sign off on it.
There was general agreement on this.
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FOOTPRIN'.r OF THE BUILDING
John: The Boot Lounge has been expanded out to the roof line.
Welton: Does anybody have a problem with that? There were no
comments.
MOTION
I will entertain a motion to recommend approval of the design
changes for the hotel with the conditions being--The applicant
shall demonstrate to the satisfaction--
Alan: A we have no problem with. B. ______should state with
conditions ______ C. We should deal with Roger's icicle--should
provide a snow protection system. The only comment that I heard
was icicles coming off the double dormer. We want them to look
at that and demonstrate the adequacy of that to the staff. D.
The extended deck for the apres ski lounge is accepted. The
applicant shall re-design the building to provide a total area in
the apres ski lounge of approximately 4,000 sqft. E. Dealing
with the step-down to the satisfaction of the Planning Office.
(Recommendations of Planning Office attached in records)
Roger: I will so move.
Ramona seconded the motion with all in favor.
Meeting was adjourned.
Time was 6:45 pm.
J""ic.~;~Y~~;;
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