HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19880621
4
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING & ZONING
JUNE 21. 1988
Chairman Welton Anderson called the meeting to order at 4:30 pm.
Answering roll call were Jasmine Tygre, Roger Hunt, Mari Peyton,
Ramona Markalunas, Jim Colombo, Michael Herron and Welton
Anderson. David White was excused.
COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Michael: I would like to propose that we do something about the
new busses that I saw yesterday. I feel that the busses we have
got here belong in Denver. They are out of scale with Aspen--
their size, the fact that they are diesel, the fact that they are
noisy and their colors are horrible.
Ramona: And the fact that they never turn off their engines.
Michael: I think the ones they ran in the Spring using the
Snowmass busses was perfect. I thought that that was a bus more
in scale with what Aspen really is. I mentioned something to
Bruce Abel about it and he said "Oh we have a new bus that is
right in between that is perfect". I saw the new bus yesterday
and it is a silver semi-attractive looking bus but it is no
different than the old bus. It is big and just as offensive and
I am sure that it is probably just as noisy and everything else
as the old busses.
MOTION
I would like to propose that we make a resolution urging RFTA to
go to the smaller bus that they dealt with in the Spring.
Ramona seconded the motion.
Roger: My only comment about those Snowmass busses is that they
are not particularly good busses. There are good busses to be
had in that size class and where I would encourage you to go to
smaller busses, I would not specify the Snowmass style because
they are just basically a motorhome body on a regular truck
chassis. And that does not necessarily a good bus make.
Roger: Could we get an update from RFTA and discuss this over
the table?
Welton: Did you want to amend your motion to request further
information from Bruce?
Michael: Absolutely.
Ramona amended her second with all in favor.
PZM6.21.88
S'l'AFF COMMENTS
ELECTION OF CHAIRPERSON AND VICE-CHAIRPERSON
Roger made a motion to re-affirm the appointment of Welton
Anderson as Chairperson and Jasmine Tygre as Vice-Chairperson.
Ramona seconded the motion with all in favor.
PITKIN RESERVE POD AMENDMENT
Roger made a motion to table Pitkin Reserve PUD amendment to date
certain of July 5, 1988.
Jasmine seconded the motion with all in favor.
ANDERMAN 8040 GREEHLINE REVIEW
Cindy: This is one of the small houses off of the tramway off of
Galena. The request by the Andermans is to fill in the bottom
portion of the house. It is up on stilts. What the Andermans
would like to do is take from the existing house, add a lower
level, a bedroom and some living space as well as add a new deck
out to the north.
The deck is the only concern which I have at all in that the
footpr int is not expanded, the hor izontal view and the vertical
view of the house are not expanded. I don't think that any of it
would be a visual problem and technically it can be done
accord ing to the Eng ineer ing Department without too much
disturbance to the slope.
The only concern that I have is that it does extend a little out
from the existing footprint of the house. Although it is within
the setbacks and the Andermans have the right to request this.
Welton asked the applicant if they had any problems with any of
the Planning Office's conditions.
The answer was no, and they agree with all of the conditions.
MOTION
Jasmine: I move to approve the application for 8040 Greenline
Review for the Anderman parcel subject to conditions 1, 2 and 3
in the Planning Office memo dated June 21, 1988. (attached in
records)
Roger seconded the motion with all in favor.
2
PZM6.21.88
RAPPAPORT 8040 GREEHLINE REVIEW
Tom Baker: The staff in reviewing the purpose of the 8040
Greenline Review section of the code and the criteria for meeting
that--about the recommendation that this item be tabled to allow
the applicant time to take a look at the design to see if it can
make a better transition from urban to forestry uses as well as
to enhance the natural mountain setting for purposes of the 8040
Greenline Review.
The staff realizes there are some constraints with the site and
the applicant is going to address those. In addition the
circular driveway--there is some topography at the site that the
staff felt that the driveway was somewhat in excess and perhaps a
more direct access to the garage section could be designed and
that would minimize the impact of the grading of the site.
We went out and looked at a couple of houses right next to this
site and both of those houses broke up the mass of the facade or
stepped back the design on the hillside. Tom then showed video
of the neighborhood.
We wanted to make sure that P&Z felt comfortable that this design
was indeed meeting the purposes of the 8040 Greenline Review and
the staff felt that the facade off of Ute Avenue was quite long.
There was no breakup in the mass at all. And we are concerned
that perhaps we could do a better job.
Sunny VannI The purpose of the 8040 Greenline Review has
historically been perceived as primarily a consumer protection
type of device. They have dealt with accessibility, availability
of water and sewer, fire hazards, avalanche concerns, etc. It
does however include 2 criteria which address essentially the
impact development on the natural mountain setting.
As Tom's memo points out the issues that deal with hazard or
service related concerns have been met or can be mitigated by
complying with the conditions that are imposed on it. The area
in which he has expressed concern deals with the impact of this
particular project on the so-called natural mountain setting. So
we would like to limit our comments to those 2 criteria.
The site has some substantial limitations as to development.
Some significant restraints were imposed on it. Tom appears to
feel that the design of the house, that is the massing and its
siting on the site itself is not compatible with the terrain.
The house has been located on the only reasonably flat portion of
the property and it is not totally flat. The house is below the
maximum allowable height requirement in the zone district. And
no manipulation of the existing topography is necessary to build
3
PZM6.21.88
the house other than the excavation for the retaining walls at
the rear of the house and for the proposed driveway and for some
minor drainage swells around the house itself. Mainly the site
will be retained in its existing condition.
A minimal amount of vegetation will be removed. The actual
footprint itself is only 15% of the overall site. The site is
about 16,000 sqft in the R-15 zone and the footprint is 2,400
sqft exclusive of the driveway which is 16% of the total. Given
the site limitation that were imposed as a result of the pr io r
subdivision, there is no other area to locate the building
envelope.
The issue appears to be the size of the house and its impact on
the so-called cr iter ia under 8040 Greenline Review. This house
is substantially below the actual 8040 Greenline itself. For all
practicality the lot and the proposed structure will be visible
only from Ute Avenue. It is only subject to review under 8040
because it is within 150 technically of the line located up on
the mountain. For all practical purposes this is an urban lot
adjacent to a public thoroughfare on the valley floor. It is not
a lot up on the side of the mountain.
To use the 8040 Greenline process to restrict the allowable size
of the house or to dictate the architectural designs, given the
nature of this lot, would be inappropr iate. It is something we
have not done in the past to my knowledge. The visible aspects
are shielded to a certain extent from Ute Avenue and to a
substantial extent from the pedestrian trail system. The
proposed resident will not obstruct views to the mountain as
viewed from Ute Avenue nor will he excessively degrade the
adjacent natural setting. There are no scars on the mountain
side itself. There are no new access roads to create the access
to the site itself--only the driveway.
With respect to the driveway design we chose the semi-circle
design to minimize the amount of disruption on the site. Tom has
suggested that a direct access from Ute Avenue to the parking
itself would be preferable. The City has said the while we may
grade the area between the street and our property line for
drainage purposes and while we may landscape it or bring it back
into native grasses, we cannot create berms or build any
substantial structures in it. To put the driveway straight up
here would require us to put retaining walls to ramp up here
within the public right-of-way itself.
The driveway itself follows the basic contours of the existing
site. The City Engineer has approved 2 cutouts and has allowed
us to grade this area to an approved drainage itself. This
design would preclude any direct visibility of the garage. It
4
PZM6.2l.88
would also restrict the view's parking that is sitting up here as
opposed to a straight shot directly up the mountain. As far as
having 2 access points, that was done primarily for snow removal,
for safety, allowing cars to pull in one way and come out the
other and to permit access for fire protection and emergency
vehicle purposes. The adjacent structure has the same design for
the very same reasons.
Milo Thompson, architect:
the house.
Made a presentation on the design of
Jasmine: How long is this?
Roger: 95 ft total, 85 ft as far as the monolithic wall with 21
windows.
Milo: However I think the building should be scaled in
relationship to the frontage of the site.
Jasmine: The reason I am concerned about that is that when
people talk about perception from this or that end I am thinking
about the perceptual along the way. I walk along that path
almost every day and I really disagree that that this an urban
lot. When you are walking a facade that is that long, it goes on
for a very long time in your perception. That facade really does
disturb me.
Sunny: Keep in mind you have a lot adjacent to a public street
that is access from a public street that is just above the street
and is within its setbacks and substantially below its maximized
footprint. The fact that someone chooses to make a long facade
is an architectural decision which they make.
Welton: What is your thinking behind designing an 85 ft long
facade with 21 identical windows all in a row which reminds me of
a century old passenger train car.
Milo: We all carry different associations with designs. My
association would be something that perhaps you would like better
as well as kind of a lodge. The house in addition to fitting
within the guidelines of the site are also about how the interior
is designed.
Roger: If it had smoke stacks, it would be a very good design
for a rolling mill.
Welton: I am curious why you would want 85 ft of wall with a 3
ft window every 5 ft.
5
PZM6.21.88
Milo: The view is continous by virtue of the window being very
repetitious.
Michael: What concerns me with this discussion of the Planning
Office's recommendation is that we are becoming an architectural
review board. And I don't think we are. I don't think any part
of the conversation is appropriate. As long as they are in
compliance with the code they can put anything they want there.
Roger: I disagree with you strongly. I agree with the Planning
Office concerning particularly item F. When you look at this
across the valley which it will certainly be seen across the
valley, it will show up like a neon sign. It is certainly
within the purview of the 8040 Greenline review. I am seeing a
monolith not only up close but from a distance that to me is an
unacceptable transition from urban to up the hill or from urban
west to more primitive east.
Jim: The trouble with that criteria is I don't think that at any
time you can enhance the mountain experience in building a
house. The purview of the 8040 Greenline is to minimize the
impact to the setting. But I don't want to get hung up on
architectural elements of how you minimize that impact.
Two problems here--one is its relationship with this facade to
the street and this driveway. I agree with this driveway.
Everyone agreed on the driveway at this point.
Sunny then explained the plans for landscaping. It is a matte
finish on the roof. We are proposing a rusty terra cotta color.
Jim: At this point there are other methods such as planting and
topography that can address and break out those concerns rather
than get into the articulation and specific tastes of the
architecture.
Mari:
blend
more.
My feeling about it is that the 85 ft long facade does not
in because it is too monolithic. It should be broken up
Michael:
intrude on
whether it
No matter what you put on this lot, it is going to
it anyway. Are we not just splitting hairs over
is a 50 ft home or whether it is zigzagged.
Sunny: You could take the position that the North of Nell Ski
Hotel is an intrusion on the open view of the mountain. But it
is not subject to 8040 because of its location.
Ramona: How tall is this structure?
6
PZM6.2l.88
Sunny: If you measure from the lowest point which would be the
garage door to the top of the roof it would be 41 ft.
Milo: It is within all the guidelines that are set out for
maximum building heights on this site.
Ramona: I think we have to approve the 8040. We are not an
architectural review. I am not thrilled with this design. But
we can't totally stay out of architectural review. It is built
in. Every day as I come into town I see those blue roof of the
Centennial and I wonder.
Welton: I find the 85 ft long large passenger train with lots of
little windows objectionable. However, I am not going to try to
second guess the architect. I would like to see some
articulation in that long facade but you explained you wanted to
articulate the end and leave the front facade very plain. I
would be willing to go along with approving it as designed with
the condition that the area between the circular driveway and Ute
Avenue be landscaped with evergreen and deciduous trees that
don't need to be of a large caliber when planted but will
eventually grow out to finish off the edge of Ute Avenue and
restrict the pedestrian view of the house so that you don't get
the impression of a very long straight facade.
Roger: That doesn't address the problem of the monolithic roof
which you will see from a distance. Agreed you won't see much of
it from Ute Avenue but certainly from Centennial and a whole
bunch of places.
MOTION
Welton: I would entertain a motion to approve the 8040 Greenline
Review deleting the first condition of the Planning Office
recommendation in the second paragraph regarding the driveway.
Michael: If the fireplace ordinance is not in effect, why should
we be imposing it?
Sunny: What I said is that we would limit it to 1 fireplace. If
the new regulation is passed that say any new fireplace has to
burn gas logs then we will install gas logs in our 1 fireplace.
If that regulation should not pass then we would like to enjoy
the same benefits that any other individual would have as far as
the 1 fireplace.
Michael: I make a motion to approve the 8040 Greenline Review
eliminating the condition of the Planning Office regarding the
driveway and without the condition of the fireplace other than
7
PZM6.21.88
that it agrees with the law plus the additional condition of tree
planting between the circular drive and the right-of-way.
(attached in records)
Ramona seconded the motion.
The motion carried 4 to 3. Against were Mari, Jasmine and Roger.
BELL MOUNTAIN LODGE
CONTINUED PUBLIC BEARING
Welton re-opened the public hearing.
Cindy Houben: Roger had requested information on the economic
feasibility of running a lodge on this property. The main issues
that are remaining are the issue of whether or not the rezoning
to something other than L-P on the site is something that would
benefit the community and in what way.
Roger: I did receive a letter today from Joe Edwards. I submit
it for the record. (attached in records)
Sunny: A decision to rezone property is based on a finding of
compliance with a set of criteria. The proposed rezoning to 0-
Office of this particular property which seems to be the least
objectionable to the Planning Office, we believe we could
demonstrate compliance with the majority of those criteria.
There are however several of those criteria which are subjective
in nature and which we continued to debate for a considerable
amount of time here.
The Planning Office has already indicated in their memorandum
that the FAR of 1 to 1 in this location is not an issue. That 0-
Office is an acceptable criteria here if the Planning and Zoning
Commission does not concur that they want to retain the L-3 or
L-P. And that that implies that they could demonstrate
compliance at that category with the rezoning criteria since they
are willing to recommend approval of it.
The issue here then I believe is whether or not it should be
required to remain a lodge. And whether or not the zoning
ordinance should be used to enforce the location and a continued
existence of a lodge in this location. That issue is one of
really fundamental fairness to the current owner.
If the owner wants to cease operation of this lodge then they
should be entitled to conduct any other business on this
property that would be permitted under zoning. In this
particular case the only type of activity that is permitted under
the L-3 Lodge is a lodge operation plus employee housing and
,,~,
8
PZM6.21.88
certain other uses. In no other commercial zone district is that
severe a limitation existent. In the C-l you can do residential
and commercial. In the O-Office you can do office and
residential. In the C-C you can do lodge accommodations and you
can do deed restricted employee housing. This one zone has this
severe limitation.
By saying that you are unwilling to rezone this property to a use
consistent with its masterplan, you are basically telling the
owners that he has to run a lodge or he has no other use of his
property. I agree with Jasmine that we should create incentives
to maintain existing lodges and they continue to represent a
viable part of the lodge inventory. But I think using the zoning
ordinance to force a person in a specific location to continue to
be a lodge is an inappropriate way to go about it.
I f you support the concept that some kind of fairness dictates
that this particular parcel is unique--if you can support that
the O-Office zone which surrounds it is also an appropriate
location in this case, you can find under the criteria that
rezoning to O-Office is consistent.
So the issue here is whether or not it is fair to tell the owner
or any subsequent purchaser of this property that because he
chose to operate as a lodge and because the City rezoned it at
his request to L-3 to provide incentives for its continued
existence--if he makes a decision that that existence is no
longer viable or chooses to pursue other development then I think
you are required to review it under the criteria to find that it
is in compliance under that criteria and to rezone it at minimum
to O-Office.
Jasmine: One thing that continues to disturb me is that you talk
as though we are zoning people. We are zoning pieces of property
regardless of who owns them. I think that when you get into the
fairness to the owner or what the owner wants or what the
perspective owner wants, you are losing sight of what the purpose
of what the zone was which was this particular piece of property
and its use in its relationship to its role in the community
regardless of who owns it. And that is still the most important
thing in my judgement as far as this particular piece of property
is concerned.
Welton opened to the floor for public comment.
Albie Kern, representing Mr. and Mrs. Capelli: All of the
properties surrounding the Bell Mountain Lodge are zoned of a
greater or more intensive use. (Went into background of zoning
of this particular lodge)
9
PZM6.2l.88
Roger: Approximately 1/3 of that property adjoins O-Office.
Approximately 1/6 adjoins Commercial Lodge. Aproximately 1/6
adjoins C-l and approximately 1/3 Neighborhood Commercial. The
way I am feeling about what you call a Lodge-3 overlay--yes it
started out as a 10dge-3 overlay for the purposes of putting the
restrictions on what was the underlying or original zoning as far
as FAR and that type of criteria on the property. But once it
was zoned Lodge, it was zoned Lodge.
Now you want to come in for rezoning. And O-Office is just one
of the possibilities because it happens to be adjoining. But
there are other possibilities that it could be applied for as
well. One being C-l which I don't agree with here. Another
would be Neighborhood Commercial or some form of Commercial
Lodge. We have Commercial Lodge limited 1 to 1 right next to
it. So to me though it may have been original masterplanned
that entire full block O-Office it has since progressed in effect
for that half block for a higher usage. And I think that higher
usage is valid. There is some logic to that.
Sunny: That doesn't negate the validity of it being rezoned to
something else if you can demonstrate the compliance to the
criteria. The fact that it is economically feasible or not
feasible is not an issue.
Roger: All I am saying is O-Office is only an equal competitor
as far as I am concerned in viewing this to any other adjacent
zoning.
Albie: That depends on if the Planning & Zoning Commission wants
to follow the master plan or deviate from it. A plan is supposed
to tell the residents, the community, the people that are dealing
with it--here is where things are going to happen. It is totally
totalitarian to tell a person that you have to be in this kind of
business.
Roger: That is a lodge zone. The fact that it became part of an
overlay, that doesn't negate the validity of it being a lodge
zone. Even the Master Plan is modified over the years in
between. And the way it is modified is by a combination of
things. Becoming L-3, then later I-P for the Capelli parcel and
then the Commercial Lodge for the Buckhorn Lodge parcel.
George: The present use of it as a lodge is the highest and
best use to serve the community which is in dire need of smaller
lodges. Because of its proximity to the slopes, to the shopping
and downtown restaurants, it helps to solve the problem of
vehicular pollution and traffic congestion. Albie's point about
now that he doesn't want to operate it as a lodge, he should be
able to change the zone. Well, a lot of us have a residentially
10
PZM6.21.88
zoned property and when we get tired of a residence I am sure
that if we can change the zoning to a higher use that if we could
change to a higher use and sell for a higher price I am sure that
we would like to do that. So I think that the principle that it
is zoned the way it is and then should be able to be changed when
you want to stop using that zone, doesn't apply. I think the
present zoning is proper and it is a very rare item for small
lodges and I think incentives to improve upon the lodge and tell
people to build new lodges of the same size should be adopted.
The reality is, as we all know, and what we are concerned about
is that if it is zoned Office that there will not be an office
use but it will go into the duplex development and as soon as you
do duplexes on a property that large, it kills the neighborhood
as you can see by the Baltimore row houses. I think when you are
considering changing zoning you have to consider what the impact
would be on the community and I think that would be a negative
impact by basically killing the neighborhood. I think the
community really needs the small lodge and I think that is the
best use for the property.
Welton: Read a letter into the record from Joseph Edwards
regarding what the courts might do with a rezoning requests and
siting several cases. (Attached in records).
Welton then asked if there were further comments from the public.
There were none and he closed the public hearing.
Welton: Something was bothering me when this application came
through 2 weeks ago. I came out of the meeting feeling that here
was an applicant willing to let the City build him a basement in
order to get an extra .5 on the FAR. Here was an applicant who
said "I want to be a part of the Master Plan for that block which
the Master Plan for that block is a public parking structure to
service skiers. I want to be part of that and I will let you
build a parking garage under my structure. I will let you build
me a foundation if you give me an extra .5 of the FAR." This
was sort of in line with what we talked about when we were doing
the Master Planning of creating a joint public/private venture
kind of thing but I think the City intended that it be a joint
public/private venture not the public sector building a new
foundation for a commercial structure and then getting an extra
50% FAR.
So the applicant changed his application and said OK, no parking
structure--we will take the straight FAR for other office or
commercial 1 but that takes it out of the realm of fitting in
with what has been masterplanned for that corner of town. And
for very good reasons. Many hours were spent in this room
studying charts of traff ic patterns going around town, through
11
PZM6.2l.88
town to show that, yes, that is a good worker/parking area. That
would be a terrific skier subgrade parking area because they
never have to go through town. They can do it right off Highway
82.
So that really bothered me that we were going to be losing the
opportunity. Between then and now I read the section of the
Master Plan which addresses both that parking structure and the
structure with the 3-phased long-term approach that also
incorporates city Market and the entire block except the Dustin
building.
I thought it would be a shame to lose that opportunity because
somebody wants to do something so quickly. I feel badly for the
applicant that nothing except a lodge is possible there.
Although I feel a lodge is what is most appropriate there because
of its proximity to the ski slope. So I was thinking of some
options. The parcel at the other end of that block, the Buckhorn
Lodge is zoned Commercial Lodge which normally has a 2 to 1 FAR
but it has a different restriction placed on it. It is a 1 to 1
FAR. Then I thought if they want to be zoned Office, let them be
zoned Office but with a restriction on that re-zoning that it
only be used for Office. The intent of the Office zone which is
primarily on Main Street is to allow for the gradual transition
of residential Victorian structures to become a higher use which
is Office uses and not for the transition of office uses to
high-key, high pressure, high dollar residential uses that would
be sitting 2 blocks or a block and a half from the chair lift and
be occupied by out-of-town owners more than likely for very
limited periods of time.
In going from a lesser use which you are calling Lodge to a
greater use which we are calling Office Uses I see if that is
rezoned Office with no restrictions on it, it will go from a more
intense use which is tourist accommodations to a much less
intense use which isn't in anybody's Master Plan for an area
which is that close to downtown commercial and recreational
opportunities. High priced condos are not orientated to this
locality.
Other options--Neighborhood Commercial is definitely consistent.
This is appropriate for Lodge. I find acceptable--Office with no
single family duplex-type of uses.
I found the analysis at the end of your supplemental information
that was submitted between the 2 meetings-the breakdown of why a
lodge wouldn't work on that property to be really fascinating
because you really came up with numbers that are guaranteed to
make them not work.
12
PZM6.2l.88
Your figure was $140 a square foot construction cost and $600,000
in architect fees and other soft fees. I have a client who is
the owner of a small lodge who did an addition and remolel. This
lodge services a sector of the market that I feel we are tending
toub. That is the people who don't have a Rolex watchg on their
wrist. My point is that his was an addition and a remodel. His
construction cost was in the neighborhood of $50 to $60 a square
foot. This is suggested as being a total tear-down-rebuild and
on 1.9 million dollars which I find to be a big burden to start
out with.
I don't want to freeze this at only a Lodge use even though I
think that is best. I think it is unfair that L-3 only allows
one use.
Albie: I don't think there is an area in the city where there is
a zoning which says you must do one business and one business
only. They did this for the benef it of the lodge owners. But
what about the lodge owners who don't want to operate or can't
afford to upgrade?
Roger: They have the option not to upgrade.
Sunny: The one thing that was clear in the review of the records
and which supported this was that all of the discussions gave the
individual lodge owners at that time the opportunity not to be
involved. In other words City Council was very much concerned
that we not force people to rezone. We can only speculate. But
if we had told all the individual lodge owners that if we do
this, that is it--you are a lodge from now until hell freezes
over, the circumstances might have been a bit different. The
point is that if he doesn't want to be a lodge, he has the
ability to apply for any other zoning which is consistent with
the criteria in that area.
We believe we can make a case as to why O-Office is consistent.
I believe I can make a case why C-l is consistent. The only
concern the Planning Office had over C-l is that there may be
some abuse of the uses which is the same concern that Welton
expressed over O-Office. The zoning is OK but we have got too
much high in the residential at the moment. The point is it is
appropriate for 0, NC, Ll or whatever. And he ought to be
allowed to do whatever uses the market dictates or that are
permitted in that zone district.
Jasmine: Of all the criteria that you evaluate in terms of
looking at an application for rezoning the number one thing that
you have to do is to make a determination as to whether or not
the applied-for rezoning is in the community interest--whether
there is some community benefit to accrue from making this
13
PZM6.21.88
change. Not a benefit to the applicant--a benefit to the
community.
As far as I am concerned the applicant is requesting that the
Bell Mountain site be rezoned either to C-l or Office. We have
discussed a lot of other options. Those are not the ones that
are applied for and I think we should get back to looking at C-l
or Office. In my opinion there is no benefit to the community by
zoning this parcel C-l. I don't see any benefit to the
community in zoning it Office. We have more than enough office
space at this time and as far as the other uses that are
permitted by C-l zone or Office zone which would include
residential uses--again I do not see any benefit to the
community.
Jim: I think the one thing that the code does have to say is
that the applicant does have the right to apply for the zone
change if it is consistent with the Master Plan. I think that it
has been demonstrated that it has been consistent with the past
Master Plan and he does have the right to apply for it and it is
consistent with surrounding uses. Those elements are consistent.
Roger: I would suggest that we recommend to City Council against
either 0 or C-l, and we do it by resolution. That we give the
Council alternatives and why we think those alternatives are
better.
A straw vote was called for by the applicant.
Welton: Would those members of the Commission who would be
inclined to vote to deny the request for rezoning to 0 or C-l
without restrictions please indicate by raising their right hand.
Four members raised their hands.
Sunny:
to the
with a
I want on the record each member's
specific criteria. Otherwise I am
resolution I can't even explain.
comments with respect
going up to Council
Jim: The only sUbjective cr iter ia I see here is whether or not
the Commissioners feel that it is of public benef it. And to me
that is the subjective criteria and can be argued both ways. I
think they have met all other criteria and they have the right by
code to make this application and they do fulfill the rest of the
requirements.
Cindy: The Commission could direct the Planning staff to write a
resolution reflecting what your position is.
Welton: We will go through the criteria one by one.
14
PZM6.21.88
l. Whether the proposed amendment is in conflict with any
applicable portions of this chapter.
Sunny: I assume that O-Office or C-l is simply rezoning.
Neither one of those is inconsistent with portions of the zoning
ordinances.
Welton: That does not apply or is an issue here.
2. Whether the proposed amendment is consistent with all
elements of the Aspen Area Comprehensive Plan.
Would the Commissioners be in agreement that it is not
inconsistent with all elements of the Aspen Area Comprehensive
plan particularly the parking and transportation element.
Sunny: The second sentence which says C-l zoning does not in the
staff's opinion effectively implement the intent of the 1973
Land Use Plan. There is absolutely no discussion as to the
inappropriateness of C-l uses in the Master Plan itself. In fact
the Master Plan states that local oriented uses of Commercial,
Residential or Office nature are appropriate. The Planning
Office comment is that the possibility exists to get uses in the
C-l zone district which don't necessarily totally serve the
local. But that is not inconsistent with the Master Plan. And
that is a concern over what uses are permitted in the zone
district. To say that C-l as a use is inconsistent with the
Master plan is simply not correct.
Michael: From a legal standpoint, we are really digging into an
area where we can bury ourselves. To turn around and say that
the transportation element is going to have any bearing on this
whatsoever--the transportation element is a confiscatory taking
if you are not going to vote for rezoning because of it and I
don't think that is what you are looking to do here. Because the
City Council says they would like to put a parking garage here,
you are not going to let anybody do anything here then. And if
you are doing that then that is a taking of property and you are
going to buy it and 1.9 million is on the tables so I think we
are going to be very careful about that.
Roger: I feel that it is just pointing out that it is not
consistent with that one element of the plan. I don't think that
of itself--
Sunny: The correct comment would be that O-Office and C-l itself
are not inconsistent with the transportation element. There is
no develop proposal before you. You could make the comment that
15
PZM6.21.88
any subsequent application that did not include a parking garage
would be inconsistent.
Given the fact that the applicant has said he would like either
C-l or O-Office and at this point a parking garage under that
scenario does not appear to be feasible then yes that rezoning is
inconsistent with one element of the Master plan which identifies
parking.
3. Whether the proposed amendment is compatible with surrounding
zone districts and land uses, considering existing land use and
neighborhood characteristics.
Sunny: Concerning the Planning Office's comments it doesn't say
it is inconsistent. What it talks about is what we prefer.
Well, maybe we would like it to be neighborhood commercial but
maybe it could be C-l but then we might get some other Mezzaluna
in there as a conditional use so it never addresses the issue of
whether or not C-l or O-Office are consistent with surrounding
zone districts. It talks about individual uses which mayor may
not be permitted in that zone district. I can see where C-l is
more objectionable than O-Office because of the potential problem
imposed by the uses that are allowed but to flat out to say it is
inconsistent with surrounding land use is an overstatement.
Surrounding zoning and surrounding land uses--you have got C-C
uses to the right of it. Forget the FAR. It is commercial use
that is allowed in the C-C zone district which is more intense
than C-l. You have got neighborhood commercial across the way.
You have got Lodge across the way in the Durant Mall even though
it is zoned N-C. You have got Commercial across the street on 2
corners that is C-C. Any use allowed in the C-L zone district is
that which is allowed in the C-C zone district.
Welton: Perhaps that one can be worded "Owing to the general
mixed vegetables quality of the zoning in the surrounding
neighborhood, it could be compatible with any number of zoning
districts."
Roger: I agree with the Planning Office paragraph for criteria
3 with respect to the C-l zoning. It does not address 5th
Office zoning however. The O-Office should be addressed one way
or the other.
Sunny: The problem I have with this is there are statements to
the effect--because of the Little Nell approach hotel which you
considered at considerable debate and you approved, we have
created a problem from the block across the street which my
client has to bear.
16
PZM6.21.88
Roger: We have to address Office for this criteria.
Cindy: We will take a stab at that so that you can look at it
from different angles but your concern is that the local
character of the fringe area, we could compromise by the rezoning
to O-Office or C-l.
Welton: To O-Office with a limitation in use.
structure to it is an office building.
The closest
Nobody has any problem with 4.
5. Whether the extent to which the proposed amendment would
result in demands on public facilities, and whether and the
extent to which the proposed amendment would exceed the capacity
of such public facilities, including but not limited to
transportation facilities, sewage facilities, water supply,
parks, drainage, schools, and emergency medical facilities.
No problems with that.
6, 7, and 8. Whether the proposed amendment is consistent and
compatible with the community character in the City of Aspen.
Well, yes and no. We don't have really a copy of a proposal to
judge that.
Sunny: This is a request to rezone to O-Office. There is
nothing that says you have to submit a development proposal. It
is just a request to rezone to O-Office based upon its
consistency--
Welton: There was a development proposal submitted.
Sunny: Which is effectively withdrawn and amended with a request
for C-l or O-Office.
Jasmine: There was not a specific development proposal. I think
one of the things that is very relevant here is community
character. Because for those of us who would like to see it
preserved as a lodge, that is a very important part of the
community character and by granting this rezoning to O-Office or
C-l you are precluding it from ever becoming a lodge again. And
to me that is a very important part of the community character
that we are trying to preserve.
Welton: Whether there have been changed conditions effecting the
subject parcel or the surrounding neighborhood which support the
proposed amendment--
17
PZM6.21.88
Sunny: We can construe changed conditions to be anything you
want. It can be the owner of the lodge is no longer going to be
a lodge. The condition is changed. It can be--there has been a
new development of different types in the immediate vicinity of
the project. There has been O-Office converted to residential
as a permitted use under the zone district. The issue is not
whether it is a bad change condition or a good change condition.
The most important ones are that the owners of the lodge are
proposing to terminate operation of a lodge and that the property
is zoned for no other use and therefore some appropriate use that
is consistent with the other criteria should be considered.
without beating the change in use condition because I think there
are others as well, I think that is the primary one that warrants
this being considered at this time. If they wanted to run a
lodge we wouldn't be here and the property wouldn't be for sale.
Roger: I don't find where there have been conditions where
conditions have changed effecting the subject parcel or
surrounding neighborhood which support rezoning to 0 or C-l.
Jasmine: We may want to address the issue that this particular
zone distr ict is restr icti ve to the point of only one allowable
use which is something that those of us who are in the majority
are concerned about and that there might be a way of addressing
that.
Ramona: I think another issue that needs to be addressed because
you are voting on this for the reason you don't want to change it
to Office for the reason that it will be high-end townhouses.
Perhaps we should look at the Office zone district and the uses
that are allowed in the Office zone district if we really do not
intend to let that district become high end townhouses because
the location of that district stacked along the east side of the
commercial core lends itself to not only being offices and if
that is what we really want in the office zone we should say so.
We shouldn't allow these other high-end townhouses if we don't
feel they are appropriate.
Sunny: That is correct. That is why we feel like the applicant
is being penalized. You have a development community that is in
the business to develop a product that is in demand. If there
are a variety of uses which are allowed on any specific parcel
then the applicant will develop the use which there is a demand
for in that time and therefore complete the development. From my
point of view the issue is not we had better put limitations on
the O-Office. You ought to structure your zone districts to
accommodate those uses that you think are appropriate in that
location. If there ought to be a pocket of L-3 zoning, you ought
18
PZM6.21.88
to make a pocket of L-3 zoning but what you shouldn't do is take
those types of concerns, read them into this set of criteria and
apply it to someone who is pending before you now.
Jasmine: I disagree with you because I think that what we are
trying to say is that the zone that it is now is the most
appropr iate and this is why and that is what this exercise is
about. But I think Ramona's point about the Office zone is
certainly very well taken because it has applications not just to
your piece of property but to all Office zone.
9. Whether the proposed amendment would be in conflict with the
public interest, and is in harmony with the purpose and intent of
this chapter.
Roger: I certainly feel that it is in conflict with the public
interest. It is in conflict with public interest as well as not
in harmony with the purpose of this intent.
Jasmine: I agree.
Welton: I believe the majority feel it is in conflict with the
public interest.
MOTION
Roger: I move to direct the Planning Office to draft a
resolution reflecting our discussions at this point and
reflecting the majority opinion.
Jasmine seconded the motion.
Ramona: I would like to amend that that it should also have a
minority opinion on the resolution.
Albie: I just want to say that I am rather amazed at the
majority's thinking with regard to what is zoning and what is
best for the community. L-3 was given to help the lodge owners,
not to hurt them or not to restrict their use of the property.
And what you want to do is tell everybody now in this particular
instance what you will do and what you won't do and limiting it
to one choice and one choice only.
Welton: There are 2 possible zoning changes. And in virtually
every discussion we have said aspects of those 2 possible zoning
changes are good but other aspects we don't think are appropriate
or in the best interest of the community. And that maybe a 3rd
option or hybrid option or some other creative--
19
PZM6.21.88
Albie: You keep reiterating back to the fact, prefer L-3, lodge,
lodge or lodge.
Cindy: They prefer that to the request to rezone.
Albie: That's not what I heard.
Sunny: Had we asked for N-C or C-L or L-l, the Planning Office
comment was still a preference--
Jasmine: That is not what we said, Sunny.
Sunny: I just said that is what the Planning Office's memorandum
stated--that the L-3 in this location was appropr iate. I guess
what you are telling me if I came in with another zone district
you might not feel that strongly about L-3.
Jasmine: No--I don't know. I am looking at what you proposed.
And I am not one of the ones who wanted to play with all of the
other zoning. This is what you asked for, this is what we are
working with.
Sunny: I didn't ask for a N-C or a C-L because they are not
appropriate in this application.
Jasmine: I think it would be very nice to have a lodge there. I
don't think Office or C-l are appropriate. But that is what I
feel in regard to those 2 things only.
Welton: There is a motion on the floor and a second. There is a
request to amend the motion to include a minority.
Roger: I will not amend the motion.
Those in favor of the motion were Roger, Jasmine, Mari, and
Welton.
Those opposed were Ramona and Michael.
Jim Colombo had to leave before the motion was made.
Meeting was adjourned. Time was 7:05.
c.m.Y~ D.puty
20