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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING AND ZONING
AUGUST 16. 1988
Chairman Welton Anderson called meeting to order at 4:30pm.
Answering roll call were David white, Roger Hunt, Mari Peyton,
Michael Henon and Welton Anderson. Jim Colombo, Jasmine Tygre
and Ramona Markalunas arrived shortly after roll call.
MINUTES
MAY 3. 1988
JULY 19, 1988
Michael made a motion to approve minutes of May 3, 1988.
Roger seconded the motion with all in favor.
Mari made a motion to approve minutes of July 19, 1988.
Michael seconded the motion with all in favor.
COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Roger: I would like an update on what is happening with the
Ritz with City Council.
Alan brought Commissioner's up to date on this.
Then I read in the newspaper today that the legal description
concerning the Marolt property was erroneous on the ballot. I
want to see a resolution to this thing and I don't think it
should require a vote of the public. The public knew what it was
getting.
We are supposed to assist the City in these things. And the
Council goes off in their own direction and throws mud in their
own face in these things.
STAFF COMMENTS
There were none.
ADMINISTRATIVE DELAY DISCUSSION
(MORATORIUM)
Alan: This is an item that is before the City Council. The
Council is going to hold a public hearing Monday the 22nd to
discuss whether or not they will adopt the administrative delay.
It has only been adopted by resolution. The most important thing
we are going to do at that hearing is we are going to try to
identify what kinds of projects should be eligible for exemption
from the delay. The delay when it was first written was intended
to deal with demolition of multi-family structures and to try to
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address the problem of new residential development being required
to provide on-site housing--not just cash-in-lieu.
Council added single family and duplexes to our recommendation on
mUlti-family. That expanded the balance of the delay
significantly and also expanded what we need to be exempted from
the delay significantly. So I have been trying to figure what
kinds of projects should be exempt from the delay. We are going
to be discussing that with them Monday night and at that point I
will have a better idea of the effect of the delay on projects
such as the ones that you dealt with last week and other projects
in the community.
Right now I am very uncomfortable with reviewing this in a
regular Planning Commission meeting and taking action on
exemptions or recommendations on exemptions because the matter is
scheduled for public hearing by the City Council.
Roger: Then is it a direction of the City Council at this point
if the house is on a 3,000 sqft lot that is demolished that they
have to replace that housing on-site which means that a 3,000sqft
lot becomes available as a duplex?
Alan: The code amendments are extremely sketchy at this point.
That is something that we are going to be spending weeks and
weeks with this Commission hashing out. I haven't even begun the
thought about all the nuances of what offshoots of the
recommendation you might find. That is a real good example of
something that would be extremely difficult to handle. It might
be impossible to apply the displacement regulation to a lot like
that.
I was looking specifically at multi-family. We spoke in our memo
to Council about single family and duplex and said they might
want to consider adding this in if you are interested in some
kind of an incentive mechanism. In other words an optional
care-taker provision or if you are so interested in a care-taker
provision, you are going to make it mandatory. Apparently they
are very interested in that. They are interested in allowing an
additional unit on properties zoned for single family house so
that there could be a small additional or employee type unit in
the development.
The delay is simply a device to give us time to think of the
options and think of the effects without facing the threat of
additional demolitions or processing and vesting subdivision
applications and thereby eliminating the opportunity to affect
new development.
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Roger: That 6 months on certain projects--it may be legal but
does not seem correct to drop them back another building season.
Is it unfair to delay certain categories of projects at this
stage when it appears obvious that that is not the direction
that they should be going.
Alan: I am trying to write the exemptions right now as broadly
as I can in an effort at not limiting any of the kinds of
development that there is no chance at all that we would be
changing the rules to effect them.
The fact that an application is in the process is not a basis for
an exemption. The kind of development it proposes is the basis
for an exemption.
Wel ton: I don't know if any action is appropriate for us to
undertake tonight.
Alan: I will carry your recommendation to Council that the Hamwi
project be exempt.
Jim Adamski: We have looked at and haven't come up with
anything as far as what Mr. Hamwi could go to the bank with. The
one problem we ran into is your code in this particular instance
seems counter productive to us in trying to produce housing. And
it is in the area of density.
Alan: The one thing that we will need to put back in is an
opportunity for employee housing to be produced without being
deducted from the applicable density requirements where people
can build up to their free market density and really see that the
employee housing is an add-on--something to be a benefit to them
as well as a benefit to the community.
The FAR one is going to be a lot tougher. I am not sure the
people in the community are anxious to jump to the FAR but maybe
they will. In that case maybe the RBO will come back to life
sooner than we thought.
Roger: This brings up the point of the school district. That is
not our project right now but another article in the Daily News
was about the elementary school property. I know no one wants
employee housing in their back yard but is that not an ideal
loca t ion for employee housing? And shouldn't we be looking at
density bonuses for that type of facility? The facility is
there. It is a shame to knock down a couple of good buildings to
stick up duplexes when those buildings could possibly be
converted and used.
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Jim: You can see that done in many other areas where they have
taken old school buildings and make very attractive condominiums.
You can see that in any major city.
Paul Hamwi: The density question also can be addressed. Address
the fee situation that the city is charging the developer on
employee units. Not only tap fees but any other fees that they
can reduce to a degree of cost basis or something like this to
try and encourage the developer rather than trying to nail him.
For instance the Water Department or the Sanitation Department
make no distinction between a multi-million dollar 3-bedroom
townhouse and a 3-bedroom uni t. It is areal burden f or the
employee, for the developer and eventually for the City itself.
Alan: The only one right now that we do have as a waivable is
the park dedication fee. The City doesn't control the Sanitation
District. But we obviously do have authority over the water
system and that is one that we could certainly look at.
Normally the recommendation would be that if you waive a fee for
employee housing that you make it up in the general fund because
that is an enterprise fund for the City. Otherwise the general
populace would be subsidizing the housing cost.
Jasmine: There is another possibility that in situations where
it is technically not possible to waive the fee that the fee be
paid out of the employee housing fund as generated by cash-in-
lieu payments.
Jim: We are subsidizing the general fund. We are doing the
Hunter-Longhouse project right now. And I am on the Hunter-
Longhouse Board. We have 5 units. 12% of our development fees
are tap fees--$44 ,000. We are going to pay them. The rent is
going to pay them--employees are going to pay them. It just
seems that some of these things are very counterproductive for
our employees.
Now we can put the money in there. That's gone. That's like
Section VIII Housing subsidy fees. What we want to do with this
money that we have available is to use it--continue to use it.
If it comes down to push come to shove, I am sure that that would
be something that we would do. But to subsidize the general fund
from the employee pool seems counterproductive.
Snowmass cuts the employee fees in half.
Welton: Do they make that up with higher tap fees for the free
market?
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Jim: Yes.
Michael: This meeting is being held for the purposes to consider
whether to recommend an exemption for the CBS proj ect and any
other project in a similar position. At the last meeting we
recommended an exemption for the Hamwi project.
Andy Hecht, representing the CBS proj ect: I don't know if it is
appropriate for you to make a recommendation. But the argument
that we are going to make to Council is that the planning process
is benefited by loading the expenditure of fees as an applicant
gains some measure of reliance and spends money for the City to
see what the project is going to look like. In that regard we
spend close to $200,000 and would have been through the process
al ready had it not been so crowded. Even with the crowded
process we would have been through at this next meeting. I think
that it is unfair for the City to impose this criteria of vested
rights on us. That is a criteria that is in the code, that is in
statute that contemplates that everybody plays by certain rules.
It does not contemplate that the City may attach a moratorium at
any time. Forget equities at that point. All they want to look
at is vested rights.
When we started spending a lot of money on this project it was
after your approval and was at a time when we knew that had the
City followed its procedures for amending the code we wouldn't be
stuck. We are stuck because of the administrative delay one week
before we would have been through the process. It is not fair.
I think in this case the subsequent issue of solving the employee
housing project is not going to be on the shoulders of the CBS
proj ect. The procedure is more important. The message you get
out to people saying "We will be tough. We may amend the code at
any time. But at some point we will follow certain rules".
If you want to go through the litany of the procedural events
and have us show you when we got our approvals, we can do that
but suffices to say that it is approved for 6 units and there
were more units there and they are replacement units.
This code was developed over a year and a half. Nothing was ever
raised. There was no issue ever raised. Suddenly it becomes
urgent. For some reason now the lights have gone on and I think
if that is legitimate planning process then let it be for future
projects that do not have the reliance that this project has.
When the code was being revised, the cry of the City was no more
RBO, no more dens i ty increases--that has got to stop. We are
going to impose some employee housing requirements on vacant land
encouraging people who wanted to make investments to buy land
that was already developed so they could tear down and replace
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because there would be no impact. And then the rules change. I
think the rules can change. That is OK. But don't stick
somebody just because it fits your criteria 100%. There is a
presumption of validity of all the regulations the City adopts so
at least make the process fair.
MOTION
Roger: I agree with Andy and that was the basis on our attitude
concerning the Hamwi project. That in this case the fairness of
the system was such that they should be allowed to continue and I
would like to include this project in our resolution to City
Council as a recommendation to exempt these projects from the
Administrative Delay. I so move.
Ramona seconded the motion.
Jasmine: I think the difference in my mind between this project
and the Hamwi project is that this is the project which really
got public opinion rolling on this whole thing about the
moratorium when they saw those little houses getting torn down.
The whole question of replacement is something that people didn't
consider sufficiently because when you think of replacement you
think of replacement with a like substance. And what happens is
that in demolition you are not replacing these with like
substances. This was the first time that people saw in such
dramatic form what was happening. For that reason I really would
be very reluctant to exempt this project.
Roger: I would tend to agree with you, Jasmine, except for where
they are in this whole approval process. I don't think it is
legal or right in this case because they have followed the
procedures and again in both cases except for already
administrative delays that they have encountered not of their
making, they would have been through the process at this point.
I think it is wrong from a fairness point of view, to stop them
at this point.
Jasmine: I just don't feel in this instance that the process
should take priority over what I think is the more important
community benefit.
Wel ton: I ag ree with Jasmine. I have been trying to analyze
this as to why this is all happening and to a large degree it
comes down to the fact that it is our fault. If we had let Sunny
let Mr. Wilson build that office building on East Hyman--if that
office building had been built even with its surface parking with
the building up on stilts, they wouldn't have built those
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townhouses and they wouldn't have sold those townhouses so fast
that everybody else wants to jump in and do the same thing.
But the fact is that there is thi s mad ru sh to tear down and
replace. As Jasmine says you are replacing apples with a like
weight of Godiva Chocolate. It is not replacing with the same
thing and we are losing resources that we can ill afford to lose
in this community that is not employee housing perse but is
defacto employee housing.
A place I looked at to rent 15 years ago which was affordable for
me at the time--was a pile of rubble just last week. So I am
going to vote against this motion. Not because the applicant is
not right in that they have done everything they were supposed to
do in the process but that the moratorium was called by City
Council without my knowledge to keep from happening what has been
going on that is terribly detrimental to the community.
Michael: I just find it hard to understand how you can vote
against a project that has come along this far in the process. I
think when this project was here before I made an argument
similar to this that we created the rules and they followed the
rules. They have spent a considerable sum of money. They have
spent much time effort to get to the point where they are now.
And now for us to turn around and say we are going to change the
rules because we don't like what is happening is just not right.
Last week we excepted the Hamwi project who wasn't as far along
as this project. This project 6 weeks ago got our approval. And
they got our approval and have accomplished what they have
accomplished not by bending rules or doing anything else but by
following the rules which we created. And now we are saying to
them "You followed our rules. You spent all this money. You
have done what you have done but now we are going to pull the rug
out from under you because we don't like what you did". That is
wrong. So you are penalizing them for following our rules.
That is more than unfair.
David: I like what Welton said. I think we need to take
responsibility. Even though we don't have control. City Council
does. Last Fall we discussed the east end and we did not want to
jump into it as soon as we should have. I think we made a
mistake in doing that and I will take responsibility like Welton
and Jasmine and vote against this.
Andy: We tore down with a permit based upon approval, based upon
plans that were submitted to the Building Department--tore down
housing that generates $70 or $72,000 a year income. We are not
asking you to abandon your effort to try and create employee
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housing. But have some integrity in your procedure. Have some
integrity in your decision making. Be as tough as you want on an
applicant but have integrity.
David: We do not have control of this. Council does. Since
they have already made the decision to do what they want to do,
we decided to have a meeting tonight to discuss it--to look at it
ourselves. I don't like the fact that Council always does this.
They did it with the hotel. We recommended beforehand that they
didn't.
I have been looking at what we did when we did the west end and
we did all the things that was going on in the west end. We were
screaming about that for 5 years before Council ever did anything
about it. We had taken responsibility--we were the early leaders
in taking responsibility in the west end. And we just didn't
want to throw in the east end when everybody recommended that we
do it to stop this. We didn't want to throw it in because we
hadn't studied it like we had the west end. Well, we made a
mistake. This is not an easy decision but it is one that I
think I am taking responsibility in voting this way.
Wel ton: It is not fair, Andy. But it is a cr isis that finally
City Council has identified and has done something about it and
the only function we have in this whole thing is to recommend
that we think yes, it should go through or no, it shouldn't go
through. The only thing we can do is express how we feel.
Jim: I think as far as taking responsibility for this thing
what we should be doing is taking responsibility for actions that
are occurring now. I think it is the epitome of taking no
responsibility at all or a shameful coverup of responsibility by
penalizing someone after the fact for something that has been
recognized either before or afterwards. I think that these
people have gone through the process and it is a shameful display
of responsibility to let these people get this far in the process
abiding by the codes and given rules and then saying "No you
can't do this". I think if we are to change the rules then you
have to change the rules. So consequently I think to be fair in
this case, allow these people to be exempted.
Welton: We are not allowing them an exemption. We are
recommending to Council that they be exempted. That is all we
can do.
There is a motion on the floor to add the CBS subdivision to the
recommendation made last week that the Hamwi subdivision be
exempted. This is a recommendation from us to Council. It is
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Council's decision whether or not to exempt it from this
moratorium.
Roll call vote: Jasmine, no, David, no, Roger, yes, Mari, no,
Ramona, yes, Jim, yes, welton, no.
David notified the Board at this time of his resignation from
Board in order to attend graduate school.
Meeting was adjourned. Time was 5:20.
Ja~.~ity
Clerk
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