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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
OCTOBER 3. 1989
vice Chairman Jasmine Tygre called meeting to order at 4:30pm.
Answering roll call were Bruce
Roger Hunt and Jasmine Tygre.
and Graeme Means were excused.
Kerr, Michael Herron, Mari Peyton,
Welton Anderson, Richard Compton
COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
There were none.
STAFF COMMENTS
There were none.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There were none.
MINUTES
AUGUST. 8 AND 22. 1989
Bruce made a motion to approve minutes of August 8 and 22, 1989.
Mari seconded the motion with all in favor.
CONSENT AGENDA
BUTERA STREAM MARGIN REVIEW
SHADOW MOUNTAIN BUILDING GMOS EXEMPl'ION FOR OFFICE SPACE
Roger made a motion to adopt the consent agenda.
Mari seconded the motion with all in favor.
CRESTAHAUS LODGE REZONING. SPECIAL REVIEW & GMOS EXEMPTION
PUBLIC HEARING
Jasmine opened the public hearing.
Tom Baker: This applicant is requesting tabling. They would
like to have the option to come back before P&Z to compete for
the unallocated 1989 LP allotment. That would be for 8 units.
In discussions with the staff and members of the P&Z to recollect
on this I guess this was done once before with Mr. Cantrup. We
allowed him to come back and compete for unallocated allotment.
However the applicant has been informed that they would still
have to abide by the GMQS section of the Landuse Code which
prohibits substantial amendments to their application.
Additionally we have told them that there is no reliance that
they will be awarded the allocation in the future. This does not
compromise the Bavarian's application at all.
staff doesn't see any problem with the request.
PZM10.3.89
Michael: I don't know that we have the authority to go ahead and
do something like that.
Tom: We are going back through channels to see if that is a
doable deal.
Michael:
received.
The Cantrup precedent is one that was not well
Bruce:
1989?
What did city council do to the other competition for
Tom: Because of the administrative delay those were extended to
April 15th for Commercial GMQS and June lst for Residential.
Bruce: Weren't there leftover allotments in some of the
categories for 1988?
Tom: Yes. Nothing was carried over. But the LP Zone District
was carried over. There was a 10 unit allotment in 1989.
Mari: If they are not going to change their application then
what is the point?
Tom: Well, I don't know if they can successfully do anything. I
think there are some major flaws.
Mari: They can change it in a minor way.
Tom: They will have no reliance from us that they are going to
be awarded any allotment. They would still have to meet
threshold to get approvals. I don't think they have had time to
research all their options. This may give them time to research
all of their options. And they may never come back. It is the
staff's call on whether the changes would be considered
substantial.
Jasmine asked for public comment.
There was none and she closed the public hearing.
MOTION
Roger: I move to table action on the Crestahaus Lodge Rezoning
and GMQS scoring at the request of the applicant with the
applicant understanding that there is no reliance of the
applicant getting whatever remaining allotment there is.
Mari seconded the motion.
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Michael: I am concerned about what we are doing by doing that.
Whether there is reliance or whether we are creating some kind of
a right that they have to come back at a later date. I don't
know whether we should be doing that. If they have withdrawn
their application then they have withdrawn it. If they have the
right to come back then they should come back.
Roger: They have not withdrawn. They have requested tabling.
Tom: What I will do is condition this with the Attorney's
approval.
Roger: I will add that to my motion. That this action is
conditioned on approval of the City Attorney.
Mari: I accept that for the second to the motion.
Everyone voted in favor of the motion.
BAVARIAN INN CODE AMENDMENT. SPECIAL REVIEW & GMOS EXEMPl'ION
PUBLIC HEARING
Jasmine opened the public hearing.
Tom: Now we have the situation where the Bavarian Inn has no
competition. And when there isn't competition the P&Z has the
abili ty to accept the staff scoring. There have been some
changes since the memo went out. Roxanne will elaborate on
those. P&Z has the option to accept the score, recommend
approval and direct staff to submit a recommendation for the
lodge unit allotment in resolution form to City Council.
Roxanne explained staff's scoring.
(attached in record)
Glenn Horn: Let me just explain the problem we ran into in
preparing the site. It is a similar problem we ran into when we
did the Holiday House--the application for the Ski Company.
Based upon the idea that you have to see the open space from the
public street for it to count in the calculation of open space.
This building is unusual because it fronts on 2 streets.
Our whole idea was to re-orient to Bleeker because it is a little
mellower street and lends itself to our site plan. So we tried
to get the open space so it would be visible from Bleeker Street
and 7th. Street.
Mac Cunningham: A lot of the open space focuses around the
existing pool area in the back. When we did the calculations
none of this is calculated as open space because by viewplane it
has to be cut off because open space has to be able to be seen
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from the street-not from an alley. So we have a chunk of open
space that would have brought us over the I imi t that we can't
use. So that is one of the problems with the definition of open
space.
Glenn: The upshot is we thought that open space really benefits
the project but based upon the definition of the code, it
doesn't. Right now the way the Landuse Code is set up for the LP
Zone you calculate the floor area based upon a special review not
to exceed 1 to 1. And I think that was put into effect to create
some flexibility for the small lodges and tried to give them a
break given the fact that they are working in small areas in
existing residential neighborhoods.
I suggest that we have a code amendment whereby open space in the
LP Zone for these small lodges would be determined by special
review. Leslie and I in talking about it thought that was a
little too wide open to just make it straight out special review.
She suggested why not look at either trimming down this building
a little bit or putting a minimum on the amount of reduction that
you could have by special review if the code wasn't to allow open
space by special review. She suggested that open space is 35%
requirement but by special review it could be reduced to 30%.
We think that is a good idea because by trying to trim this
building down and it is already really tight, we would go ahead
and amend our application based upon Leslie's suggestion that the
code be amended to make the calculation of open space in the LP
Zone a special review consideration provided that open space
would never be less than 30% of the site.
Jasmine: And the 30% would still be following the definition of
"Open to view from the street".
Glenn:
suggest
from the
Yes. And the whole def ini tion of open space- I don't
that we tinker with that definition whether it is open
street or not because I think that is a huge problem.
Jasmine:
This would not affect our previous definition.
Glenn: No. Not at all. I think Leslie had a pretty good idea
and we would go ahead and amend the code amendment to say that it
would not be less than 30%.
Jasmine: That seems like a reasonable approach.
Roger: I can foresee other places where that 5% mayor not be
significant.
Jasmine: But it would be special review.
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Roger:
I am saying is 5% the right amount.
Mari:
should
review
I feel that instead of just saying by special review there
be some language giving some standards by which a special
would be warranted.
Glenn: I put that in the language. "Taking into consideration
open space which benefits the site itself". It may not
necessarily be open to a public street. Because this site has
some open areas that will definitely benefit the project but
won't fit the definition so that would be a consideration.
Mari: I feel it is more important that the open space benefit
the neighbors than the site. I think it is important that the
open space is still defined as being open to view from some
neighboring property.
Tom: Staff's conclusion was that we wanted to have the applicant
see if they could change some of the decks or balconies to get
that extra 3%. We didn't know if they could or not. While we
prefer not to mess with the code, that seemed to be a reasonable
compromise if they were unable to squeeze out that extra 3% by
messing around with the balconies or overhangs.
Jasmine: This is a code amendment though. We are talking about
a code amendment in general and whether or not the applicant can
amend his plan at this point really should have no bearing on
whether we decide to adopt this code amendment. If we think this
code amendment is a good idea then it doesn't matter if the
applicant can still chop balconies off. That is fine it is part
of the GMQS but that really is not relevant to the code amendment
itself.
Mari: I think that the special review-the guidelines should
state that only if there is still at least 35% which is open to
neighboring properties. That doesn't mean that you have to see
if from the front street but from other properties. So that it
has benefits to the neighborhood-someplace other than from within
the project.
Jasmine: I think it should say "Unimproved lot area which
enhances the site and is open to view from neighboring properties
if not the street". So that it becomes very clear.
Mari: I am just afraid that if the special review allows it to
be cut to 30%, there will only be 30% on the site that is
undeveloped. And if we keep that 35% figure as far as
unbuildable and viewable from neighbors I think that insures
against that.
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Jasmine asked if there was public comment.
Ted Mularz: I have a couple of things that I think are worthy of
your attention. One is the fact that if we are only dealing with
the development of the 3 lots that this building is on the open
space would exceed the required 35%. The other thing is that in
dealing with the 35% or no less than 30% I think that something
that would be in our favor here and I know it doesn't meet the
strict definition of open space because we have space that is
open that is more than 3 or 4 feet below grade. But we are not
actually creating our FAR within the open space. It is not as
though we have solid building over that area. It is open to the
sky from that point up.
Roger: I don't know whether the 5% is the correct amount or not
when you look at the general thing. But my concern is that as
soon as we make it 30% instead of 35%, people will start
designing to that relying on that 5%. I think we should get in
the criteria that this is allowed because of existing structures
that remain in this redevelopment as this is. I think we should
set up for the criteria for this to take action is that it had to
be a design problem resulting from an existing plan or an
existing building.
Michael: This is only going to be applicable in the LP Zone.
And the LP Zone is all built.
Glenn: How about "Percent of open space required for site
building--35% but may be reduced to 30% by special review. In
establishing required open space for specific development the
Commission shall consider 1. site constraints resulting from
existing structures. 2. The quantity of unapproved lot area
which enhances the site and is open to view from neighboring
properties but not the street but does not meet the definition of
open space.
Roger: Well, it doesn't quite do it but it is almost there. And
you still leave open the possibility that through their design of
the new portion of it they could, in effect, aggravate the
problem and I would like to see the problem not aggravated by the
re-development. But if it is there and existing I don't mind
addressing it.
Bruce: I must say that I actually prefer the proposed amendment
as it reads in the memo. And the reason for that is I would
rather not say anything other than 35% that the code already says
and leave it up to special review. We are talking about 3% here
in the case of this applicant. We may have another applicant
next year that may come in and maybe they are at 29% but it is a
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great project. I don't think we want to constrain ourselves over
1, 2 or 3%. I think there may be very good projects that come in
and it is open to special review. We then have the ability in
that case to say "Yes this is a great small lodge. This is a
wonderful improvement they are doing to it and let's go with 29%
open space in this case".
I would rather see it go just as it is proposed here. Then by
special review we approve this project at 32% or whatever rather
than try to come up with some change in the definition and
putting a cap on it.
Tom: The thing we were concerned about at staff is that all
these LP lodges are in mature neighborhoods and perhaps there is
special need to insure that those neighborhoods get compatible
development. We are trying to keep these lodges viable and we
are trying to make sure they still fit into the neighborhood.
That 35% open space thing was a pretty big constraint.
Ted Mularz: When you are dealing with existing conditions you
have to make some allowances to the existing condition. We felt
that shrinking the rooms in order to meet the 35% would greatly
diminish the quality of what we are trying to do. I don't see
any benefit to the community relative to that.
Michael: I would be concerned about considering an amendment
reducing open space in the other zones. But I think this is a
peculiar zone-the LP Zone. And because of what the intent of
what that zone is is to preserve the small lodges then we should
give it consideration as opposed to something we wouldn't do in
the Commercial Zone or the C-1 Zone.
The underlying intent of the LP Zone was to create incentives so
that developers would take these lodges and preserve them,
upgrade them and keep them where they are. That is an important
enough benefit to the City. Then if we find that there are
special review provisions or special circumstances applicable to
reducing the open space in situations such as this, it is
probably a benefit to everybody to do that. I would be in favor
of it.
I wouldn't like saying 30% because I think that is something that
somebody shoots for. I would like to see us be able to stay more
flexible.
Jasmine: What we are trying to arrive at is
flexibility and to give us revJ.ew criteria that are
discourage applicants from designing to special review.
to arouse
going to
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Roger: I would like to see an amendment not specifying an
absolute minimum because that is what designers will design to.
Jasmine: You have a minimum already. 35%.
Roger: The way I feel about it is--reduced by special review
where we determine that is presented to us and P&Z determines
that reduction is necessary due to the existing site design or
the site design of the existing facilities and it was a
constraint that in effect they had no control over and they did
the best job possible to minimize the adverse effects of. That
is sort of how I would like to see that code amendment read. The
goal is still 35% and I would like to see the Board be able to
reduce that as necessary for the project.
Bruce: That section on page 4--that section 7.404 where it says
that open space is--
Glenn: It is really easy. Just say "Based upon these standards
and 7.404 and that is special review for open space in the LP
Zone and it is a simple cross reference in the Code.
Bruce: That is the easiest way to deal with that.
Glenn: Somebody spent a lot of time thinking of what those
criteria were.
Jasmine: The only thing it doesn't include is the fact that this
would be the result of an existing development.
Glenn: Maybe this solution is closer. "In establishing the open
space minimum the Commission shall consider the configuration of
the existing structures on the site which are to be preserved--
unique natural or man made site conditions. Then the quantity of
unimproved lot area which enhances the site is open to view from
neighboring properties but not the street but does not meet the
strict definition of open space".
What you are trying to get at is to try to create some
flexibility for these existing lodges where they are working
around something unique on the site or a building that you don't
want to tear down. This is closer to what you are shooting for.
Mari: The only problem is that language just tosses in existing
buildings as one of the things that may be considered instead of
requiring such an application to be using an existing building.
I think it leaves a loophole.
Glenn: You could say "Considering foremost the configuration--
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Jasmine: No. That the need for special review is necessitated
by the configuration of existing building or feature.
Glenn: So that if someone is razing everything on the site and
starting over then they wouldn't be qualified for special review.
Jasmine: The point is that the deviation from the open space
requirement is necessitated by the fact that they are preserving
these existing features.
Mari: I think that special review can only be if there is an
existing building which is going to be preserved.
Glenn: Then you say "Special review be permitted for the
preservation of an existing structure".
Amy Margerum: I would highly recommend that if you are going to
do this that you make it such that it is flexible under special
review without changing the definition of open space.
Glenn: You could just say "Special review to reduce the open
space requirement below 35% may be permitted only when the
reduction is necessary to preserve an existing structure or
structures on the site. In establishing the required open space
the Commission shall consider configuration of the existing
structures on the site which are to be preserved, unique or
natural or man made site conditions, quantity of unimproved lot
area which enhances neighboring factions".
This then keeps the definition of open space the same.
Jasmine asked if there was any further public comment. There was
none and she closed the public portion of the hearing.
MOTION
Roger: I move to carry forward what Glenn has come up with as an
amendment to the code. The Planning Office will come back with
this amendment in resolution form.
Mari seconded the motion with all in favor.
SPECIAL REVIEW FOR FAR
Jasmine: In this particular application the external floor area
added will bring the FAR to .91 to 1 FAR. And we do have special
review criteria which according to the Planning Office the
applicant has met. There are conditions for the approval.
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Tom: Staff does not have a
approval. The conditions
(attached in record)
problem with the FAR.
are for the entire
We recommend
application.
MOTION
Bruce: I move that we adopt the staff recommendations to the FAR.
Roger seconded the motion with all in favor.
GMOS EXEMPl'ION
FOR EMPLOYEE UNITS
Tom: The applicant is meeting their employee housing
obligations. The GMQS exemption is for the 3 affordable housing
units that are part of the requirement. The commitment that they
made in their scoring is pretty straight forward.
Jasmine: So we just need to approve that?
Tom: It is a commission action only.
MOTION
Michael: I move that we approve the GMQS exemption for
affordable housing as set forth in the Planning Office memo dated
September 21, 1989. (attached in record)
Bruce seconded the motion with all in favor.
Jasmine asked for public comment on the Bavarian Inn expansion.
Joe Wells, representing Crestahaus: I want to make it clear on
the record that it is our intent to effectively waive our rights
to quota so that if this applicant meets threshold requirements
they stand first in line for the quota. And we would perhaps at
some point in the future compete for the remainder of the quota
if there is any. I wanted to make it clear that we are stepping
down from the competition so that this applicant can receive his
quota and proceed if he is eligible.
MOTION
Michael: I would like to make a motion that we adopt the
Planning Office's scoring to the only applicant who meets the
threshold. I would like to recommend that we have covered
everything else in the application--all the requests that they
have made. The one condition we have backed off of a little bit
is the 32% that they came in on. I would like to recommend this
along with our approval that we actually oppose the conditions
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that are contained in the Planning Office
the applicant address where they have
conditions.
memo or at least let
problems with those
So my motion would be that adopt the scoring but we approve the
application subject to these conditions with the 32% limitation
on open space if the City council approves that code amendment.
If they don't do that then all we have done here tonight is for
naught anyway.
Bruce seconded the motion.
Glenn: The technical aspects first. On the curb cuts on 7th
street. This is at the end, #9. We would love to do what this--
we intend to do this what is asked for here in 9 and 10--remove
the curb cuts. We have to point out that the City is not the
authority that is responsible for that. And if the highway
department by some chance has-can't abandon those curb cuts then
we are going to be stuck with them. I don't think that is going
to happen because usually they are thrilled to get rid of curb
cuts. But I just would like the language to say "Subject to
approval by the Colorado Department of Highways".
Jasmine: For both 9 and 10?
Glenn: Yes.
Michael: I amend my motion to that.
Bruce: I amend my second.
Glenn: Another technical thing--It is going to be hard to
install these grease interceptors for the kitchen facilities
before we get a building permit. We are going to have to do that
prior to CO because we are going to need the building permit to
do it. It is a catch 22.
Baker: Can you demonstrate to the satisfaction of the
Environmental Health Department that you are going to do that?
Glenn: Mac, are you intending to go right in there and start the
renovation as soon as possible?
Mac: That is our intention. We were not aware that there was
not a restaurant license until one of the reviewing boards
brought it up. So obviously that would be one of the things we
would be doing immediately relative to renovation of the existing
inn.
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Michael: I
Environmental
the CO.
would add to my motion that they have an
Health approved grease trap prior to issuance of
Bruce: I would amend my second to that.
Glenn: #11 has to deal with the sprinkler system. I am not very
familiar with sprinkler systems and what they mean. But Roger
Kerr, one of the architects on the proj ect is and he wants to
address the sprinklers and how they would affect this building.
Roger Kerr: Up until now we designed buildings according to the
fire code established by the uniform fire code. And for the new
building what we have designed to meet the code was a 1 hour
construction building. And we could, under the code, build a
building about 2 and 1/2 to 3 times as big as that. We have got
about 3,000sqft for floor. The building code would allow 10,500
and that is the standard for the whole united states.
I don't know anything about any changes in the Uniform Building
Code to require us to do that. The way we have designed it it
will resist a fire for 1 hour and according to the information
given us there is a 4 minute response time to the building. We
have got smoke detectors in the building. I think it is designed
for safety doublefold. It has got a system that alerts people to
get out of the building, alerts the fire department to get there
in short enough time.
Tom: In your packet is included the Fire Marshal's referral.
Now there are 2 referrals from the Fire Marshal. The first one
says this project would require the installation of an automatic
sprinkler system in all structures. I guess we use the Fire
Marshal's recommendation in building these conditions. But I see
he has excluded that from the September 14th memo to Leslie.
What I would like to do is request that we have the opportunity
to talk to the Fire Marshal and we would go with his
recommendation if that is OK with you.
Roger Kerr: I serve on the Building Department Review Committee
and we have been in discussions over this. Wayne decided to
adopt an ordinance. No one is quite sure what it's status is.
The Building Department is the final word in that environment.
Wayne's position is he wants to see sprinklers in every building
in Aspen. The United states not only doesn't require it but it
takes the position that it is not appropriate in certain
structures. I think that the Building Department at the time is
the one that really should be the arbiter over that.
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Jasmine: Normally our procedure is to adopt the recommendations
of the Fire Marshal. I think that is what we are going to have
to do.
Michael: Except that I don't think the Fire Marshall can just
sit down and arbitrarily and impose conditions. It is either
part of the Building Code adopted by the City--
Jasmine: I agree with you but I don't think we have the right to
waive this.
Michael: I would like to amend my motion so that if the Code
requires that, then it is there if he imposes it. But if the
Code doesn't require it I don't want to just give Wayne the
discretion to do that.
Mari: I don't know why anything has to be put in our condition
that is contained in the code anyway.
Michael:
code.
You are right.
So make it as required by existing
Glenn: Condition #2 has to do with log structures. When we were
working on the site plans I checked to see whether the site was
in the District and it is not within an historic district. We
checked to see whether the buildings are on the inventory and
they are not. But nonetheless we are sensitive to the desire to
preserve historic buildings. And the applicants have no problem
at all in researching these buildings to see whether they have
any historic significance.
And they commit to undertake that research. If the structures
are historically significant what we would like the Commission to
say is that we will seek to find a place to relocate them and
renovate them. But I am not sure we can commit that we can
relocate these to another site. It is getting harder and harder
to find places to relocate buildings to. And because the code
does not require it I think it is kind of onerous to ask the
applicant to commit to relocating the buildings when it is not
required by code.
Mari: The same thing came up when we were doing the Mountain
House Lodge. And I felt then and I feel too that it is onerous.
As it turned out the Mountain Lodge was able to relocate it. But
it was not required. So I think we should do the same thing
here.
Michael: I make that amendment to my motion.
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Jasmine: So actually what we are going to do then is strike part
of 2. "The applicant has agreed to research the historic
significance of the log structures". The applicant has already
said they will do that.
Bruce: I think we
effort to relocate".
things.
had language in the other "To make every
They ran adds in the paper and all kinds of
Glenn: Mac I s is on the local historic trust and he is really
sensitive to this thing and he wants to find a home for them as
much as anyone else.
Tom: "The applicant shall make a significant effort to relocate
the structures."
Jasmine: So now Mickey has made a motion with the conditions as
amended, seconded by Bruce. Is there any further discussion?
Everyone voted in favor of the motion.
Jasmine closed the public hearing.
Meeting was adjourned.
Clerk
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