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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19901023 " I v AY. RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION OCTOBER 23. 1990 Chairman Welton Anderson called meeting to order at 4:30pm. Answering roll call were Graeme Roger Hunt and Welton Anderson. were excused and Richard Compton Means, Bruce Kerr, Mari Peyton, Sara Garton and Jasmine Tygre arrived at 5:05pm. COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS There were none. STAFF COMMENTS Roxanne: Monday October 29th from 5:30 to 8:30 at the Community Center in the Roaring Fork Room is the very first of three meetings on the Aspen Area Community Plan. Everyone is invited to bring slides--a few slides of good and bad images--things they like and don't like of Aspen. Deliver them to the Planning Office prior to that day. We are going to put them together in a slide presentation and have people actually vote on what they like and what they don't like. Then on the 15th of November we are going to present to the community what they have told us. The meetings of November 15th and December 6th and at the same time and place. PUBLIC COMMENTS There were none. ADOPTION OF THE PEDESTRIAN BIKEWAY AND WALKWAY PLAN Welton opened the public hearing. Roxanne: It was Amy and my original idea that this Pedestrian/Walkway Plan would replace the Trails Masterplan. But as we have gotten into more of the Trails Masterplan we have decided that that is not going to be a good idea. So we are recommending instead that this plan actually become a supplement to that Trails Masterplan. This plan was primarily dealing with linking pedestrian and bike systems within the City. (Planning Office memo attached in record) Graeme: In the presentation by Nore Winter it didn't discuss the problem between bicycles and pedestrians. I know that there are PZM10.23.90 real problems. Some people don't even like to walk on the Rio Grande because they are scared and they are rightfully scared. I think it is really important to deal with it. Roxanne: In fact that has been a huge discussion throughout all of these months of planning 'on this. That whole section of Trail Etiquette is going to be enhanced in the final published document. Al Blomquist suggested widening the trail in places as a means of making the trail safer. Further suggestions were striping, signage and the use of bells and bicycle licensing. Graeme: There are even some places where bikes shouldn't be allowed. They aren't a commuter kind of trail where people can go and walk and not worry about getting run over. Roxanne: We talked about that but this plan is not identifying any bike only or walk only areas except for some very sensitive riparian areas. But there is flexibility in this plan to say that when the user frequency increases that maybe that is when we look at making exclusive use. Graeme: The new trail that goes down to the Rio Grande property where it crosses when you ride your bike down there when you go onto the road the curve is such that on a mountain bike you can ride it but on a lot of bikes you are going to bruise your tire, dent your rim and that needs to be looked at. Welton: They just picked the wrong profile for the curve. Graeme and I were talking about the possibility of making some of the prime bicycle commuter routes the feasibility of making some of the prime bicycle commuter routes year-round routes. What would it take to get some sort of equipment that can--I rode my bike over to the Aspen Club today and all the trails were fine until you got to the area right behind the Benedict office building where everything is in shadow and it is kind of scary there to go in that much snow and ice. Roxanne: Maintenance of trails for year-round use is a real big focus of this too. We have looked all those trails that need to be left for Nordic and plowed for biking. And the Parks Dept has been discussing with us the maintenance with the thought of year- round use. George Robinson, Park Dept: I can tell you right now that it won't happen this year. Un~il you put in a program where you are 2 PZM10.23.90 going to move the snow from all the trails you have a lot of things you have to consider. A lot of times you can remove the snow on some trails and in some areas it would be fine allowing that you have the maintenance and equipment to do that which we don't have now. Then you have to really consider some of those trails that are in the sunshine during the day and then in the afternoon it goes down and the water and ice puddles are real liabilities. Not to say that it can't be done but there is going to have to be a study on what should be done and what should not be done. The problem is the snow melts during the day then turns to ice and to try to keep those trails open you are going to have liability problems. Plus the lighting of those trails--if you are going to keep them open, people are going to use them at night also. You might consider some lighting for that. Welton: I would like to propose--Graeme mentioned the trail from Truscott Place into town--that was part of the planning of that that we encourage alternate transportation means. But to incorporate real tentative' limited number of trails that are primarily commuter trails that at least give people the option of using a bicycle in the winter time without scaring yourself to death. Robinson: The Truscott Trail will be done. That is always done. The problem with that is man power. Maybe what you might want to do is find out what trails you want done and what we can try to do is figure out man power and equipment needed at that time. Hans Gramiger: I agree with you, Welton. I think it is very important that those trails that have been designated as commuter routes. And these are between the town and the outlying residential employee housing. I am particularly interested in my area that the trail from Hwy 82 coming up to the Marolt Creek Bridge plus from the hospital now with the new housing, Aspen Highlands--there are people even from Cemetery Lane that come up on the long route. I am going to press that this is the first year that it is going to be plowed. Welton: Does that mean that you are going to move your fence off so that 7th st is a little bit wider? Gramiger: 7th st and maybe even Hopkins. Welton: Great! Blomquist: You definitely should adopt this only as a supplement to the existing plan. And you should refer it to the County P&Z 3 PZM10.23.90 since the County P&Z adopted the original plan. And probably should refer it back to the staff and to the neighborhood advisory committee to continue study on the whole matter to the end that we get the capitol program. There are all kinds of recommendations in the plan. The reason for wanting it as a supplement is first that the existing plan is the Aspen area which goes beyond the City limits quite a ways. The proposed plan basically goes to the City limits except for a couple of small places. But it does not penetrate the perimeter area and make all of the connections to the County system that the existing plan does. The existing plan has specific when you go omissions in this plan you adopt it. been tested pretty good and it is fairly into it. But there are a number of which I think you ought to discuss before The main point I would make is that both the City and County subdivision regulations require an owner to dedicate trail easements only if they are clearly on the official plan of the City or of the County. My interpretation is that a lot split is a subdivision. We are going to have more 1010 ute in the next 5 years. And if the plan doesn I t cover that kind of peripheral land or some of the larger parcels within the City limits such as on Castle Creek then the subdivision regulations would not kick in if this plan or a replacement of the existing plan. There are several plans floating around. There is a bigger one that some things on it that are not on these 2 right here. So the committee did not really get into detail on all the stuff that is on the different maps. I find for example on Shadow Mountain the pedestrian only plan over there shows the Shadow Mountain Trail to 7th st. However the bicycle trail map does not show it. The Shadow Mountain Trail has always been a bicycle trail. So if this were the only plan the land owner would say you are only going to get a 4ft dirt trail not a 10ft or 8ft bicycle trail. And that then would be within his rights in subdivision. Now on this plan there is a trail through Garrish Park from the River Trail proposed and on this plan it is not there. It was discussed at the meeting but it does not show up on the maps. There is no Castle Creek Trail on these. And on this there is a trail all the way from the MAA school down Castle Creek to the Rio Grande Trail. That has been taken off both of these. 4 PZM10.23.90 My point is it is on the third map-the big map- that I saw the last time which I thought we were adopting and it is not here. The other one I have is there are no sidewalks proposed for the west end. Yet tons of people are walking to the tent on the north/south streets to get to the tent. On this plan it shows several pedestrian corridors north and south. Now is it wisdom to eliminate the concept of walkway connections safe walkways to the tent? Just from those things there are enough things in it that make me want you not to adopt the new plan as your replacement but request that you adopt it a~ a supplement to the existing plan. Roxanne: The Neighborhood Advisory Committee is a very large one. And reaching consensus in that whole group was not always easy. And the group as a whole and the HPC unanimously said "No sidewalks in the west end" for a number of reasons. And they have identified a number of different ways, bikeways and pedestrian ways to work their way through the west end to get to the tent. And traditional characteristics of the west end and that sidewalks are not appropriate there. The Garrish Park was discussed and the committee did not vote on that. The city has also discussed that and there was going to be some discussion about a trade of some land so that it would touch down at the river and the City has decided not to do that. So that connection is not on here for that reason. Blomquist: The City Manager decided not to pursue the trade but there was no discussion about the trail that is required if the owner were to come in and decided to subdivide or take an action. Roxanne: The County is working with Ellen Sassano in the Planning Dept a trails plan as well. The Neighborhood Advisory Committee is recommending fhat their work be done at the same scale that our work was done so that the County system feeds into the city system. Welton: I think AI's point is very important and that is that whether or not a trail is possible in a certain location right now doesn't mean it won't be possible some time in the future if condi tions change. For that reason everything that was on the previous plan needs to be incorporated and the other 2 have to be 1 whether it is a supplement or whatever. So I don't particularly feel that if you couldn't reach a consensus with a Neighborhood Advisory Committee on whether or not a trail is appropriate and therefore they didn't vote to say that a trail should be here that we have to go along with that. 5 PZM10.23.90 And in fact I don't feel comfortable adopting it unless it encompasses all possibilities no matter how unrealistic. So whether you want to add onto these maps or whatever I think it would serve everybody if these had as much information and as many different trails plucked out of that plan and transposed onto this plan as you possibly can whether or not there was agreement from the Committee. Roxanne: And it was never the goal to not do that. Blomquist: some more. are a dozen at the 400. I am sure when you check the records you will find These are the easy ones that I found. I know there more. These are not conformed to the 200. These are Roxanne: The entire purpose of this was to have a planning level document that was to establish policy and set guidelines for development. The guidelines are very good in here. So was trying to do everything from mall possibilities to recreational trail links to the County. It was trying to do everything. So I think that adopting it as a supplement is fine. It is a good way to go. Welton: And just a really minor semantic point, Roger, the Shadow Mountain Trail the people that I know that use it use it as a commuter to get from point A to get to point B at least in the summer time because it is a straight shot. It goes to Durant st and is a shortcut--a direct route. And calling it a truly recreational as opposed to a commuter link is not giving it it's full due. Roxanne: That is up to the P&Z to amend the priority. The NAC felt the Hopkins st commuter system bridge to Hopkins and using Hopkins as a straight-in shot as the commuter route was more efficient and made more sense. Welton: I am just talking about how people use it. Not what makes the most intellectual sense but how it is, in fact, used. (It was extremely difficult 'to understand this next person) Marin: I am representing there are condominium. As well as approximately 50 ____ that signed that petition on this issue about 10 years ago when there were hearings about the same trail system. We strongly object to the trail going section and touching the river under the Redwood Condominium. From the bridge We are talking about the section where the trial is going right on the bank of the river. 6 PZM10.23.90 There are several reasons. The trail would actually be touching bedrooms. The section I am talking about is full of old trees, young trees, bushes. It is a section that looks exactly as the make up It does not happen in very many places where there is a section right in the heart of town where there is river with wildlife living right there. And this nibbling action is going to devour this. Is this a trend that you really want. Right there there is a section right there. There are Beaver living trail is to go. family There there. of skunks and ducks nest in that are Hummingbirds nesting there. And that is the place where the It would cost a lot to take down all of those trees and bushes. I can't say that money is no object. This is in the flood basin. All the land would be gone and the appearance would be devastated--an aspect that I think should be taken into consideration. He then went into a survey relating to the inconvenience to people living in the Redwoods. He suggested that the trail go to the east side of the property rather than along the river side of the property. Fritz Benedict: on the east side east side. I talked to John who owns an apartment of your project and he doesn't want it on the Marin: The majority do. Fritz: The easement is on the west side. You keep talking about trees, bushes and wildlife. Those trails don't stop the wildlife. Marin: Skiing in the winter is going to disturb wildlife. This is private property. Welton: Roxanne, the methodology for implementing this supplement to the masterplan would be--what we are talking about right now is a masterplan. We are not talking about the trail is going to be 6 inches this way or a foot that way. We are talking an overall comprehensive plan for the whole City that, in general, says that this is the general location for getting from point A to point B and th~ details are worked out on really a foot by foot basis when each segment of this idealized plan is implemented gradually over the years. 7 PZM10.23.90 Now to implement a trail--when we went over this in August the people from the Redwoods again said "We don't want a trail going between us and the river". And I thought it was fairly clear then that the implementation is a level of detail where if that easement is ever to be exercised it will be look at pretty much on a tree by tree by rock by the edge of the water basis. And if it isn't suited to go between the back of the Redwood Condominiums and the Roaring Fork River then another trade-off location will more than likely be negotiated with the property owners there. Roxanne, what are the nuts and bolts of implementation? Is there notification? Roxanne: Absolutely. There will be a lot of discussion in the media when we get ready to implement something exciting like this plan. The Parks Dept will be involved. Engineering will be involved. It certainly is going to be news in the community. So you will certainly will know about it. This plan is exactly what you said, Welton, in that yes this is a corridor system that has been identified. But if there are problems like we have discussed with Redwood Condo folks not only at P&Z meetings but at NAC meetings and city council meetings and that if it is not suitable--it will be suitable. We will make it work somehow. Welton: We are talking about a City-wide and beyond the city system of pedestrian and bicycle trails that is frankly the overall importance of the whole system is more important than the little segment that the Redwood Condominium people keep bringing up as being the vein of everybody's existence because an easement exists between the backs of their units and the river. This isn't the time to object to that easement being there. The easement is there. The easement is on the maps. And it is going to stay there. And the only time you really have to worry about anything and the condo owners have to worry about anything is if that easement ever exercised by the city and that will be a much more appropriate opportunities at that time to put it on a different location than there is tonight. Roger: If for example we have a 1010 ute project coming up in the extremities of the town and we don't have an overlaying trail proposed in that, do we have the weapons necessary to get a trail through that type of subdivision either to support that subdivision or possibly the next succeeding parcel of property in the future? 8 PZM10.23.90 Roxanne: Yes. I am thinking it is policy discussion in this plan and also in the Land Use Regulations now. Blomquist: It is not in the plan. It is in the subdivision regulations. Where I am a little worried is on whether a lot split is a subdivision. Welton asked Roxanne to check on this point. Welton asked if there were further comments from the public. There were none and he closed the public portion of the meeting. MOTION Roger: Clarification the title change then becomes The Aspen Pedestrian/Bikeway supplement to the Aspen Area Comprehensive Plan? Is that the change in the wording that we want. Welton: No. It is the supplement to the Trail Masterplan which is -- Roxanne: The name of this plan is what this says. Now it is in fact going to be adopted as per AI's and my recommendation as a supplement to the Trails Masterplan. Roger: I was just in preparation making a motion to indicate that amendment to our resolution. Bruce: The enabling language under the subdivision says these things can be required as easements in the subdivision regulations and #8 is the plan trail system says whenever a subdivision embraces any part of the bikeway, bridal path, cross country ski trail or hiking trail designated on the Aspen Area Comprehensive Plan: Parks, Recreation, Open Space, Trails Plan Map an easement shall be provided. So in effect what we are doing is amending that Aspen Area Comprehensive Plan: Parks, Recreation, Open Space, Trails element. Roxanne: That is a very good point. I should have brought up is you amending that part of the code. Welton: And you should also check when that wording is amended whether or not lot splits and lot line adjustments are included on the same criteria of subdivisions. Roger: I have to reverse course slightly then because what you state has me slightly worried about what I am feeling about an area for example that may be next to the City may not have any trails indicated through the area and then they come through subdivision but in order to support either that or a potentially 9 PZM10.23.90 future beyond it, do we llave the right through the existing subdivision to require trails to it. And if not I want to get that going. Now I will move to adopt Resolution #90-15 changing where necessary the title or statement that this is the Aspen Pedestrian and Walkway supplement to the Parks, Recreation, Open Space, Trails element of the Aspen Area Comprehensive Plan. Roxanne: Close but not quite. Mari: Don't we want to go ahead and call it a plan? Roxanne: Call it the whole plan. The name of the whole plan is longer than what you just said. Roger: Well, is this not the Aspen, Pedestrian/Walkway and Bikeway System Plan supplement to the Parks, Recreation, Open Space Trails element of the Aspen Area Comprehensive Plan of July 1985. Mari seconded the motion. Everyone voted in favor of the motion. Welton adjourned the meeting. Time was 5:45pm. 10