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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19910205 J...U ~ RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 1991 vice Chair1ady Jasmine Tygre called meeting to order at 4:30pm. Answering roll call were Sara Garton, Graeme Means, Bruce Kerr, Mari Peyton, Roger Hunt and Jasmine Tygre. Richard Compton arrived at 4:55 and Welton Anderson was excused. COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS There were none. STAFF COMMENTS There were none. MINUTES JANUARY 22. 1991 Roger made a motion to approve minutes of January 22, 1991. Sara seconded the motion with all in favor. HIGHWAY 82 ENLARGEMENT DESIGN RECOMMENDATIONS RESOLUTION After discussion, additions and deletions with Tom Baker of the Planning Dept., Bud Eyler, County Manager and members of the public on wording of this resolution-- MOTION Roger: I move to adopt Resolution #91-3 as amended here and be signed by the Vice Chairlady. Bruce seconded the motion with all in favor. Tom: The meeting with the City Council is a work session on the 18th. The Hwy Dept will be there and the County commissioners may be there as well. The County Commissioners have scheduled a meeting for the 28th--a work session which may preclude that they can meet jointly on the 18th. The meeting will be at 5:00 and this is the only item on the agenda. Jasmine: I would like to thank members of the public for their information. 1 PZM2.5.91 1001 UTE AVENUE PUD. 8040 GREENLINE REVIEW CONDITIONAL USE REVIEW Jasmine opened the public hearing. Kim: Because of changing this request from lot split which is a subdivision exemption going to council, we are going to bring it to the full subdivision review. We have to schedule that before you. We are having a problem with scheduling so we are going to have to change that date to April 2nd. MOTION Roger: I move to table this hearing to date of April 2, 1991. Bruce seconded the motion with all in favor. Jasmine closed the public hearing. FLYING DOG BREW PUB CONDITIONAL USE REVIEW Jasmine opened the public hearing. Applicant property. submitted mailing list and photos (Attached in record) of posting on Leslie: Made presentation as attached in record. Staff is recommending approval with conditions. The issues that need to be discussed are the parking and the housing primarily. They are using existing kitchen space within the restaurant and then to use 320sqft of storage space. In the code storage space is not considered net leasable. We have made the interpretation that this change in the storage area to be used for this operation is in fact adding net leasable to the restaurant space. So we are reviewing for parking mitigation purposes. We are looking at that they are adding 324sqft of net leasable. And so we are recommending that in the code it is 2 spaces for 1,000sqft and the 324sqft means .64 spaces of parking that they mitigate for. Using the cash-in-lieu we are recommending that they mitigate to this fractional space. As regards the housing we feel that they are adding new net leasable and that a conditional use review requires that the incremental increase in employees be mitigated for. We have calculated that they are generating .67 employees and we recommend that they pay $16,700 in cash-in-lieu. 2 PZM2.5.91 Bruce: On the cash-in-lieu on the housing I saw 3 different numbers. After discussion on this-- Leslie: in-lieu figure. since it is the Housing Authority that accepts the cash- and has to approve cash-in-lieu I would go with their Bruce: Her number was $16,750. Richard McIntyre, applicant: Pub operation. Explained to P&Z members the Brew Leslie: We were concerned about the trash issue. Rob Thomson of the Engineering Dept worked with me on this and we did a site visit and looked at the trash situation in the alley and the applicant did also provide a letter in that BFI picks up 7 days a week there. Given the fact that most of the refuse is the mash that will be hauled off 3 times a week to the ranch and then there is the filter pack, we thought that the trash situation was adequate. Staff's recommendation is that it is OK. Sara: In these storage vats are people going to be checking pressure? McIntyre: The brewmaster will be a qualified to take care of it. I have 40 applications right now for the brewmaster position. He will have the ability to control it at all times. It is a 7- day-a-week process. It is all controlled. Bruce: Does the state regulate that in some way? McIntyre: Yes. Federal and State. They will be checking on us quite often, in fact. Graeme: I think it is a great idea. Does the applicant have any problem with the conditions? McIntyre: I don't think so. Jasmine: It is your through all of these Lauretta's Restaurant. intent then that little things, once will the product goes be sold through McIntyre: Yes. Jasmine: Then you are not going to be a separate operation in terms of the sale of the product. 3 PZM2.5.91 McIntyre: It will be sold on the premises. sa1e other than that. There will be no Leslie: There will be no packaging of the beer for sale. If they want ever to expand the operation it will be considered as an amendment to the conditional use. They are not changing the situation of the restaurant at all because of this application. Jasmine opened the meeting for comments from the public. Harley Baldwin: I am a competitor up the street. From the little that I know of this they are taking 320sqft of storage where they are storing Budweiser beer and are going to store their own beer in that space. I don't see why you don't just let them trade one for the other because they are not increasing the number of seats. It doesn't strike me that they should be charged anything. It is really just storage space being re- arranged within the store. McIntyre: That is our feeling too. Baldwin: I think this is a great idea. It is a novel and unique thing for the town and ought to be quickly approved and I think you should seriously consider not charging them for storage. I think they are really providing more than 320sqft of storage in the floor plan and they are not increasing seating in the entity so there is no impact. There was no further public comment and Jasmine closed the public portion of the hearing. Richard: Regarding Harley I s point there do you intend to stop serving and storing other forms of liquor? McIntyre: Under law we are able to sell not only hard liquor but draft beer and beer but this storage space is 90% taken up by bottled beer and paper goods. George Stranahan, also applicant: We will serve liquors and beer and wines. Our own beer will be the only beer we will serve. Roger: My attitude about the storage space is that it is storage space converted to a productive use and on that basis it requires a person. You are, as opposed to accessory storage for the operation, disregarding the fact that some of it may have been rented to someone else. The nature of the beast is that it is now productive space and I think is subject to the fee staff has come up with. 4 PZM2.5.91 I fully agree with this as an allowed use in the CC zone with provisions. To me it is the same as the restaurant operation assuming that it is all consumed on site. If it is consumed on site I have no problem with that. If you start a bottling operation that would be an expansion over and above. Jasmine: Perhaps this should be subject to a yearly review to insure that the operation remains the same as represented by the application. Leslie: The Environmental Health Dept is required to inspect this once a year. since most of our concerns are primarily health related I thought it would be the Environmental Health Dept who would be a good enforcement of these conditions of approval. Jasmine: I think it would be appropriate because of the nature of this operation to have the Environmental Health review trigger a review to make sure that it is not being changed in the way that would substantially affect the representations made here. Leslie: So you want a review required by the Planning & Zoning Commission. Jasmine: Only if it looks as though something has been changed and should be brought to our attention. McIntyre: We are so limited in space we could not fit another vessel anyplace. And to keg or to bottle we would need another 150sqft at least just to move around and we don't have that. We have no room for expansion. None. Leslie: So in #4 I should add some language the requires the Environmental Health to confirm with the Planning Dept that the conditions of approval are being adhered to. MOTION Roger: I move to approve the conditional use of the Flying Dog Brew Pub at 424 East Cooper with conditions stated in Planning Office memo dated February 5, 1991 (attached in record) amended as condition #1A that the cash-in-lieu should read $16,750 payable to the City of Aspen with copy of receipt to the Housing Authority and Planning Department. B of that section is the same. Condition #2 with all subs is the same. Condition #3 is the same. Condition #4 is the same with the addition of language indicating that the Environmental and Planning Depts will be in liaison concerning the inspections to assure that the operation stays within compliance of these conditions. 5 PZM2.5.91 Sara seconded the motion with all in favor. CRESTAHAUS AFFORDABLE HOUSING Kim Johnson, Planning Dept: record. Made presentation as attached in Joe Wells using plans and drawings oriented members regarding plans for Crestahaus. This presentation is aimed at getting reaction and input from P&Z members. Jasmine: You know we are never shy about giving our opinions. Let us take one issue at a time so as not to get sidetracked. PARKING Harley Baldwin, applicant: Since I run a business these days the need for employee housing is more apparent than ever to me. I personally feel that to the extent that you provide places for people to park cars that there are going to be cars parked there. I would love to consider that maybe if we give every apartment a tricycle which has got knobby tires, a place in the back for groceries, a place to stick a pair of skis, and a pair of boots and a downtown parking place to put it in Bruce: And an orange flag sticking up. Baldwin: Yes. I think they could be a lot of fun and it is a very short trip to town. I think we would need to put in washing facilities. Maybe we could have a program to have a dropoff one day at city Market which is 4 blocks away. Center of town is 8 blocks away. Graeme: I would be pretty open to suggestions like you are talking about. I feel that there might be some people if they really understood the situation that there is no parking they would move here and would be willing to accept those conditions. I get around really well on a bike and I really think it is possible. Richard: We are talking about 40 bedrooms here and I see 20 parking spaces. I think that is already a tremendous reduction from the standard of 1 parking space per bedroom. I don't see it as realistic to go any further than that if even that far. Sara: I would like to see a project with no parking spaces. 6 PZM2.5.91 Roger: I would like to believe that providing no parking means people wouldn't have cars. But the unfortunate practical nature of the beast is that people do have cars. What I would like to see is sufficient space for them to store their cars and not have the car convenient for daily use. If people may not have a car on site where are they going to store that car? Is it going to be in the east end or the west end? Or Park Avenue? 4th and Hallam is a good place. That is the problem. If we don't supply a place for storage on site, it is going to impact somewhere else because people are going to have an automobile. So I would encourage you to go along the idea of minimizing to parking area necessary for the storage--long term storage on site. Mari: I pretty much agree with Roger. I probably don't drive my car for weeks at a time. But I still have one and it has to be somewhere. And I don't believe that eliminating parking is going to eliminate cars. So even if you don't want to make it convenient to get the car out all the time, there still needs to be some solution. People are going to have one somewhere. Bruce: Well, I think in the utopian world I would like to see auto disincentives work. And whether the units are going to be for sale or for lease the easy thing to say is "Well, it is going to be Harley's problem to deal with these guys and if he can't sell the units because they don't have a place to park or if he cant rent them because they don't have a place to park, that is his problem". But it will really end up being our problem because they will have to park somewhere. And they probably will not park in the garage. So I suspect we will probably end up having to say there has got to be some kind of parking. Sara: Can you put a restriction legally? California an apartment house took to court would not rent to anyone who had children. the Supreme Court of California. Is mumble - - When I lived in the fact that they street noise it discriminatory Harley: One of the things about the site is that you have got a different mix than you might in another project. Inherent in a place that is no parking is that it is a younger employee mix. Within Aspen there might be different places that have different kinds of solutions. Here closer to the middle of town I think--I have lots of employees that do not have vehicles. Jasmine: I don't think you necessarily have to say "You cannot have a car". There are different ways to go with this proj ect. 7 PZM2.5.91 One would be to provide no parking spaces whatsoever. And to say in your promotions whether it is for sale or for rental "This is an auto free area. There is no space for cars". And you don't necessarily have to prohibit or not prohibit. There just isn't any place to put them at all. And then people who feel it is essential for them to have a car for whatever reason will probably not apply. My personal feeling is that you should have no parking at all. But you must provide some kind of storage facility somewhere as part of your plan. Richard: Part of the disincentive package is that storage is available but people pay extra for it. Or each unit has one. Graeme: I think if we are going to eliminate vehicles in town you have to do something like this. Mari: The Holiday House where the Ski Company built employee housing is just as conveniently located as this will be. They also claimed that they would tell all their people that they couldn't have cars before they moved in. Now the neighbors in that neighborhood are screaming because of all the vehicles that are parked on the street by the people who live in those units. All of a sudden the neighborhood is inundated with cars. Harley: One of the things about this site is that it is not part of a residential character neighborhood. Mari: What I see happening is Midland Avenue and Park Avenue all of a sudden becoming a parking lot. Sara: Would the Planning Office accept an application that has no parking? Leslie: If we ever decide that that is what we really want to do, we feel very strongly that this is the site. We definitely support 1 space per unit. 1 space per unit is very amenable and very appropriate. But to go to less--to go to none? Marolt is kind of our example that we are all looking at. But I think one of the problems at the Marolt is they have partial parking. Jasmine: One of the other problems with the Marolt is that people have 2 or 3 jObs--one of which is a day job so that ~hey can work on the mountain and get a ski pass--another which 1S a night job and a 3rd job. And when you are trying to juggle working 2 or 3 jobs in one day that is where you get into a real problem with the location like Marolt because of the bus service. 8 PZM2.5.91 If you are coming off the mountain and you have to get to your restaurant job and you have to be there by 4:30 or 5:00 you are not going to "fool" (not exactly the word she used) around with the bus. You are just not going to make it. That is the reality for too many employees. That is one of the things that you do need to take into account. The employees, in addition to having fun at night, do work and they need to be able to get from one job to another. Mari: Actually I like Harley's idea about the tricycle. I have always thought that one thing we should have is something like golf carts. Harley: I feel this adds a significant benefit to the city. The city is paying a fortune to create this amount of space. They are paying $67 a square foot to be able to create these units. That is a lot of money that they don't have. Joe Wells: Curb cuts: What I would like to hear on this score is that that is something to work out with staff and try to get staff support on the issue. Roger: I would be open to trying an experiment as doing the first phase with absolutely no parking and seeing if it works. Then if it works I am not one that can't be convinced. If it works then good, let's do the rest of it. Bruce: I think you need to run that experiment for a full year. Roger: 2 winter seasons, I would say. I am open to that. Richard: seems to a safety Curb cut: Irregardless of the number of curb cuts this be the blindest part of the hill for getting out. It is question for me. Joe: We do have to look at that with the Highway Department. Graeme: I think we should talk about density. Yes, we need low cost housing but we have also got crowding problems whether it is in the market or whatever. I think we have got to be sensitive to those. I kind of feel that a lower density solution would be better. This whole thing in itself has quite a bit of impact on the town. We have to think of the neighborhood. I think we are going to be creating a situation where the low cost housing that we are doing is not going to wind up being a good thing in the end. My opinion is that it should be as low density as it can be and still work. 9 PZM2.5.91 Leslie: Given the Riverside neighborhood which we have tried working with on the trail stuff--I think placement of this free market unit is going to be key as far as from their perspective. Pulling the unit away from the boundary so that Riverside doesn't feel like they are being totally maxed out by huge homes. If we don't address that up front you can bet that they are tired of what has happened on Crystal Lake Rd. Leslie: I also thought that reducing the parking in favor of a little bit more open space on the deed restricted side of the equation would not be a bad idea. You reduce parking because you want more housing but I think also if we can get a more appropriate site design with a little bit more open space they can feel up on this end also ____mumble____ . Jasmine: I think that any time you can avoid having a lot of space taken up by asphalt parking is going to improve your site design no matter what. Graeme: But this is replacing parking with more housing. Sara: I don't have a problem with density with people as I do with automobiles. We have the whole outdoors around us. I don't look for my front yard out my door in this town. Harley: I think the City should start thinking about things differently. Start towing cars. I think they should take the lot that the City Manager uses and put four tricycles or bicycles there and let him use the space that is a half a block away in the City lot. I do. Why shouldn't he? Leslie: All of those bikes that they auction off at the Police Dept--we are negotiating with the PD that we would have these bikes here for staff use during the day for site visits. There being no further business, meeting was adjourned. Time was 7:00pm. 10