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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
MAY 19. 1992
Second Vice Chairman Roger Hunt called meeting to order at 4:30pm.
Answering roll call were Tim Mooney, David Brown, Sara Garton,
Richard Compton and Roger Hunt. Bruce Kerr and Jasmine Tygre were
excused.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
David asked regarding the ice rink.
Diane: An interesting thing has happened is that the County has
not yet formally transferred ownership of Wagner Park to the City.
The County at this time is the true owner of Wagner Park.
Reid Haughey, County Manager: The arrangements on Wagner Park are
done. All the agreements are reached and the document to execute
those agreements were never adopted. There has been a land
exchange worked out that involves County trails, the Rio Grande
property, Wagner Park, etc. that have been agreed upon by prior
Councils and prior Boards. When the document carne through
everybody had to relearn where all of those agreements were. They
sit in the Attorney's office right now. So if the County has to
give permission for Koch to process something on that land that is
just procedural.
STAFF COMMENTS
Kim presented resolutions on Kraut, Weinberg and Johnston for
signature.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There were none.
MINUTES
APRIL 21. AND MAY 5. 1992
David made a motion to adopt minutes of April 21 and May 5, 1992.
Richard seconded the motion with all in favor.
CARIBOU CLUB CAFE SPECIAL REVIEW FOR USE OF OPEN SPACE
Kim, Planning Dept: Made presentation as attached in record.
Harley Baldwin: The reason I am doing this is that I think that
the more outdoor cafes in Aspen the better. It is a wonderful use.
It is something that I think will give this space more of a
pedestrian involvement. It will make it look better downtown and
it will be good for the little shops in there.
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By having it be open to the public at lunch and still for the
Caribou Club at dinner is a reasonable compromise. We might be
open for breakfast as well which would also be open to the public.
We are actually in construction and have just opened up this wall
so that we can have a new second means of egress out so that this
space can be added to Zona and we have got better trash and
delivery facilities right here on the alley corning right in. I am
building an employee housing project that will be on the alley that
this goes through.
Richard: Beyond the question of pUblic/private which I am not
entirely resolved on yet--the arrangement of it seems to really
take over the space in that alley. My perception of it walking by
on the street would be that "Well, that is a cafe" and completely
miss everything else that is going on in there.
Tim: I don't mind the design. I think it could definitely enhance
Harley's food and beverage business. Whether it is going to do
anything for the shops either positive or negative I really don't
care. I think it is a tight space. I think it is some kind of
reaction to something that I really don't know what is going on.
The Caribou Club was functioning and providing everything that it's
members wanted and this was the last thing that was going to put
it over the top to be successful, I could understand them doing
that. I don't know if that is the motivation.
It seems to me that the public/private thing--I don't know how to
resolve that. The open space restricting it in any way, I am not
that in favor of. I think that when you do a major renovation on
a piece of property like this and it includes open space, it should
be open space. To corne now and say you want to use it to enhance
your food and beverage business after already giving it to open
space I don't understand.
Baldwin: The real motivating factor here is to make it an
interesting space to walk in which it is not now. The tenants back
there are very enthusiastic about doing this. As the landlord I
wouldn't be doing this if they weren't enthusiastic about it. It
is the kind of thing court yards need to make them interesting.
I think it is really to the good of the city.
Tim: If it was to the good of the City then it would be open to
the public. And it would enhance the community and not just a
private organization that has enough membership dues to isolate
themselves in a private club situation.
If it was really going to enhance the open space it would be open
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-- to the public and it would give everybody an opportunity to use it.
Just to expand your private club's use of the City's open space I
don't know if I think that is pertinent. I find nothing wrong with
the design. I have no objections to sidewalk cafes. I really
enjoy outdoor dining and I think everybody does. But to show it
to somebody and then say "Oh no, you can't corne in because it is
after 5:30."--I don't know it makes a funny little twist to me.
I really don't think it facilitates the use of the open space.
Sara: I can see the press and the town having a field day with
this. I remember Michael Gassman always being opposed to the Wine
and Food tent being erected in our biggest open space--a public
park. He had a lot of problem with even cutting it off for
temporary use for a private organization even though they donated
a lot back to the town.
It is open space. Can you really keep anyone off of that interior
access to your own--I really don't think you can do that.
Baldwin: During the entire day it will certainly be completely
open to the public. It is a point in time when people wouldn't be
in there normally anyway unless they were going to the Caribou.
Sara: How late are the shops open?
Baldwin: They might be open as late as 9:00 or 10:00 because of
the traffic of the Caribou.
Sara: And Mrs. Rodriguez is shopping and Mr. Rodriguez just wants
to sit down and have a drink and he is told he can't because it is
a private club.
I just think if you put up a grille across that and there is a
doorman there only allowing certain people but if the shops are
open it still to me is open space. I think you are opening
yourself up to so much bad will in this town. You are putting
yourself up above and are telling people they can't sit down at
those tables.
Baldwin: Maybe we take reservations from members and if somebody
from the public comes and wants to sit down and have dinner it may
not be the end of the world.
Tim: If you had designed this building addition with a patio for
dining I think that that would work. But in order to get this
building addition approved you had to have so much open space and
now to say that you want to use it for private patio dining, it is
a catch 22 for me. Is it or isn't it? And if you thought that was
something important as an amenity to your private club why didn't
you design the space with less shops or roof top dining or
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something that was really an amenity to your club?
Baldwin: It isn't really an interesting space.
by P&Z rules. And I am trying to figure out a
more interesting place.
It was designed
way to make it a
Tim:
club.
If it is public then the bathrooms to be utilize are in the
So that is going to open traffic in and out of your club.
Baldwin: All of those shops use those bathrooms anyway.
don't see that as a major problem.
So I
Sara: My only objection is this private part. I love the design.
I think it is very attractive.
David: I think it is a great idea. I agree with the tenants that
it would be nice to have it out further on the street. If it were
out on the street it would be absolutely mandatory that it be
public access. Being on private property however I find myself
thinking what is the test we give for other private properties in
the community?
If the Aspen Historical Society decides to have a wedding in their
side yard which is open space, is that party open to the public?
Kim: There are several open spaces in town. One of the big ones
that gets a lot of that private catering type situation is the
Hotel Jerome. Everyone recognizes that the main intent there is
not to provide an extra party room for private rental. P&Z in
their most recent review a year and a half ago the P&Z limited them
to something like 20 private affairs a year because they didn't
want it to become a privatized open space. They were very
cognizant of that when they approved the new deck and outside bar.
David: When we had discussions about the ice rink--the Ritz ice
rink--that the summer use for weddings and other private functions
that that is an allowed use on a private park.
Kim: with a permit each time.
Diane: That is a little different. There is a deed restriction
that goes with that site.
Baldwin:
bonus.
I would mention that I got no bonus--there is no FAR
David: I think from a design standpoint you would be better off
eliminating the umbrellas and putting some sort of fixed canopy
overhead to help provide shade during the daytime. I think it is
great to have it open to the public during the day. It would be
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better to have it open during the evening.
the applicant in this case in having it open
and closed to the public in the evening.
I think I can support
to the public at lunch
Roger: Yes this is open space but it is also public access to
those stores. I had real problems with this with public access to
these stores being denied by privatizing it at 5:30 if the stores
are open till 10:00.
I do have problems with privatization of a portion of it. From
where the tables are doubled out forward to the street is more the
public accessway area. And the double tables back towards the
alley because the only accessed after that point is the club.
Maybe something to consider is designate these tables after 5:30
as club tables. The others you can take club reservations but by
the same token if someone comes off the street and wants to eat
there in the forward part--because if you make these all club
tables you have put the gate up at the entrance as opposed to the
gate back here as far as public access to these businesses.
Baldwin: You know the Smuggler garden is gone and they are going
to put a big flat building along that whole street on Hopkins
Street. And I think that this is the kind of thing that humanizes
streets and makes for the kind of places that people like to be on.
Richard: I think that if this tiny little linear cafe can be made
to work in this courtyard I think it is great. It does add
something to a fairly static space. As far as public access in the
evening the suggestion that members be able to make reservations
and the public can walk in and take their luck is certainly
reasonable to me. The general concept I am favorable to.
Tim: If this does get approved and you do have an outdoor dining-
-selling it like "Well we are having a wedding here and we are
having cocktails outside on this patio and it is a private party".
And then everybody goes down into the club and the party continues.
Or the use of the space for different applications of what the club
needs, it is definitely going to enhance your business and I think
you deserve a shot at that. But as it starts opening up and what
are the possibilities of how it can really--
Baldwin: No matter what this 44 inch corridor has to be maintained
at all times.
Roger: By the same token I would have no problems with a wedding
party or something in that order in this space on reservation basis
done very similar to the Hotel Jerome patio limited to so many
events a year. I have no problems to that type of operation.
Sara: I don't like blocking off a certain section for just club
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use. It just isn' t--Aspeni tes j ust--no one I ikes to think they are
not as good as everybody else. I think it will be great. The
reservation idea is acceptable to me.
Roger: Is it acceptable for the commissioners here that the patio
space in effect be open to the public but by reservation through
the Caribou Club after 5:30? That means if someone from the public
wanted to eat there some particular night and wanted to reserve a
table there, they could do it by calling the Caribou Club or a
walk-in--taking space available.
David: I think it would be more clear that either it is open to
the public or not open to the public. I think the other way is too
problematic.
Baldwin:
basis".
Maybe it would make sense to say "On a space available
I would rather not have people calling for reservations.
MOTION
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David: I move that we approve the Special Review of the outdoor
dining for 12 umbrella tables, 34 chairs in the required open space
in Collins Alley with the 5 conditions of approval recommended in
the Planning Office memo dated May 19, 1992 with the following
amendments: That article #1 be amended to read "The outdoor dining
shall be open to walk-up public use on a space available basis with
an understanding the outdoor dining shall be kept open to walk-up
public use with the understanding that reservations for Caribou
Club members is allowed.
No changes to condition #2.
Article #3 to read "Dates to be inclusive from May lst through
October 15.
Richard seconded the motion with all in favor.
CRESTAHAUS - GMOS EXEMPTION
FOR AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRI-PLEX
Kim made presentation as attached in record.
Melinda Goldrich--Applicant
After much discussion--
Diane: A lot of this is really up to the Housing Authority and I
think that there is a lot of flexibility--she needs flexibility
which I think she should get. That is up to the Housing Authority
and to even look at the enforcement of mandatory or 6 month--that
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'-- doesn't really happen.
I think it is not appropriate to sit here and act as a pseudo
Housing Authority Board in a sense when I think that if anything
we can get input in between now and Council from the Housing
Authority. I just don't think we should be venturing in that area.
MOTION
David: I make a motion to approve GMQS exemption for 3 affordable
housing units restricted to resident occupancy category 1 and
category 2 to be voluntary constructed at the Crestahaus Lodge with
the 5 conditions recommended in the Planning Office memo dated May
5, 1992 with following modifications:
Condition #1--The owner shall submit appropriate deed restriction
to the Aspen/pitkin Housing Authority for approval. It shall be
deed restricted to resident occupancy for the upstairs unit and
category 2 and 3 for the lower units and all deed restrictions be
per Housing Authority guidelines.
Condition #3 be reverted that all units shall act and operate as
independent units and the applicant shall work with staff to
determine the exact configuration.
Richard seconded the motion with all in favor.
ZONE DISTRICT TEXT AMENDMENTS
Basically this was a work session with no motion and no public
input. Tape is available.
Meeting was then adjourned. Time was 6:50pm.
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