HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19920915
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING , ZONING COMMISSION
SEPTEMBER 15. 1992
Following site visits to Meadows bridges and the City shop:
Chairlady Jasmine Tygre called meeting to order at 4:50 PM.
Answering roll call were Tim Mooney, David Brown, Sara Garton,
Richard Compton, Roger Hunt and Jasmine Tygre. Bruce Kerr was
excused.
There were no Commissioner, Staff or Public comments.
EAST COOPER AFFORDABLE HOUSING CONCEPTUAL PUD
Kim made presentation as attached in record.
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Staff comments: I would like to voice my concern that we have lost
some extra parking spaces from the original plan submitted and
discussed last week. Specifically referring to not identified
parking for each individual affordable town home unit. But that
we have lost 4 guest parking spaces on the affordable town home
site. I think that we need to try and find a few spaces available.
A dedicated open space and play area which I think is important to
the future residents of this project. The site is still very
tight. Yvonne this afternoon had indicated that in a safety
measure they would do some decorative things to try and keep the
kids out of the open ditch area.
Chuck Roth, Engineering: The Eng Dept received comments from some
of the citizens and it is our intention to pass those on to P&Z and
share the concerns of the citizens. We are happy that the access
point has worked out to be what it is. The ROW width appears to
be deficient. We spent considerable time among staff discussing
what the ROW width should be. This is on Hwy 82.
The Municipal Code is pretty specific about prescribing what the
ROW width for an arterial collector a local and an alley is. For
an arterial it is lOOfeet. For a collector it is 80 feet. For a
local street it is 60 feet. For an alley it is 20 feet.
We haven't determined yet what the City is going to require for
that ROW expansion. I do know we will want to see a sidewalk put
in there in front of the project. And we would like some of the
mapping to be improved a little to show the ROW lines on both sides
of the Hwy 82 and labeled dimensions to the existing curb and
gutter that is adjacent to the property.
~ We might want to have RFTA take a look at the area. There are bus
~ stops up hill and down hill from the site. They might want to look
whether they want to have a new bus stop or re-Iocate an existing
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bus stop. That might be something that could figure into the ROW
analysis of the project.
We went out and looked at the parking there on Cooper Ave/Hwy 82.
Downhill from the project there is parking on the street. You go
up hill from the project to me it appeared that there was parking.
But then we had trouble discussing whether it was acceleration,
deceleration lanes for adjacent properties. There is very wide
pavement. I don't think staff is going to recommend that there be
on-street parking in front of the project. But P&Z might want to
consider that for their own recommendation.
Bike lane is another factor in what makes up the ROW. Snow storage
for in the winter.
Kim: When Chuck mentioned he wants to see dimension drawings of
the whole ROW width and what all is included in that--I would also
like to see that in section form to get an idea of the topography.
Rob Thomson, Engineering: I would want to check whether that
diameter of the turn-around is there in the access area to
determine whether that meets with current code. Even though it is
going to be maintained as private access it still needs to be built
to specifications of code.
Brian Denning: At the conceptual level here what we are trying to
reach is is it basically OK with everybody. We didn't have, as a
group, enough time to go and do a finished product. We basically
took the blocks that were there before and spread them across the
site to show that it could work. We might be able to add a block
or 2 on top of other blocks and maintain the same square footage
and the same number of affordable houses and not come up with this
same basic design. This is not his best work because of the
shortage of time.
We proved by this that it can work. We tried to, with concerns
about play area, give up a little more ground to put that little
play area in there. It may be that we could get our 4 parking
spaces off the very narrow portion of the park. These are things
we will spend considerable time and money to try to perfect it so
it is the best for everybody that is involved.
Chuck to answer your concerns, the sidewalk is not a problem with
us. We figure someone needs to start ones through there anyway.
There is not much ofa sidewalk on that side of the bridge. We did
go to the Hwy Dept and that was one of our threshold concerns as
to the feasibility of the project to get access to it. They gave
us a permit which we will have to go back and renew. So that at
final if you see this thing the way we do we go back and work with
you and the Hwy Oept very closely to make sure everybody is
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satisfied.
As we get further into the final we want to make sure that we
address all the City and County specs that we are required to.
Yvonne: Lot #8 has increased in size to accommodate the access
going through there for all the free market lots and the restricted
units.
We still have a 7-lot configuration for the free market lots. The
lots have been reduced in size. They now average between 8,200 and
lO,200sqft. That is the range. This gives you for the FAR it is
3,200 to 3,500sqft which is compatible with the average Riverside
Subdivision. The underlying R-15 would allow a 4,500sqft home on
these lots.
What we also have done to meet some of the concerns that were
voiced last week was we have located building envelopes on each lot
specific to the buffer that had been requested from any of the
abutting lots in Riverside Subdivision. We currently have these
shown at a 25ft setback. In talking with the Planning Dept we may
need to look at that a little bit because of the turn radius.
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Also the affordable housing units have not changed in either number
or size. That has remained the same. We have lost a few of the
parking spaces but have looked at dedicating as open space a play
area which has already been discussed with you.
David: What is the grade on the driveway?
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Bob: It is our attempt to maintain a grade less than 8%.
David: At the bottleneck here at the interior corner what is the
width of these driveways?
Bob: We have to maintain 20ft for fire lanes.
David: I guess part of that is you are still looking at double
parking. Are these flat so you are parking under the deck?
Bob: Right.
David: So you guys have a 30ft
are parking under the deck.
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with a 10ft deck and you
Michael Gassman: No. The deck doesn't stick out. It is enclosed.
David: So the second parking space is inside.
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Gassman: Yes.
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Denning: Once again this is our conceptual. There will be some
changes in it.
Gassman: We have done enough design to assure ourselves that this
access will work. We didn't show any parking because I think when
we get to final grading we are probably going to have to have some
retaining on that driveway.
Roger: Part of your problem is going to be--there is a major grade
change here and probably somewhere over around the ditch might be
a change. What you might consider is lowering the roadway over the
ditch and then syphon.
Bob: There is a syphon l,200 feet down the road across 82.
Jasmine asked for public comment.
Lennie Oates: I am the owner of Lot #11 in Riverside adjacent to
the subdivision. I want to congratulate the developer for the
modification of the access and we are real pleased to see that.
We are also real pleased to see that they came up with 25ft buffer
between us and Riverside. We urge that that should be maintained.
We do however still think that the density of 7 free market units
is too much for the area. We think that the affordable housing
project could be spread out and made a lot more attractive and a
lot more functional if it were moved back into the hill and the
ditch re-Iocated and the density of the lots cut back.
Sara: I agree with staff. This is a very tight site. I raised
children in an affordable housing complex. I don't think I would
want to raise children in this one. It is too tight. There is too
much traffic and it is right off of the highway.
We always have to work with the developer that it is not going to
pencil. But I guess that isn't our job to manage the profit. Our
jOb is the best planning for the community. For the best planning
of the community I would like to see affordable housing here. I
would like to see mixed use for the private lots. But it is too
dense.
Jasmine: So you would recommend reducing the density?
Sara: I would like to change it to affordable housing--the
rezoning is agreeable to me. I like the mixed use concept. But
it is too dense. The density would prevent me from giving
conceptual approval.
David: I agree with staff on everything they have said. I agree
with Sara. I tend to agree with Lennie if you are willing to
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subsidize the difference in the density. I also applaud the
developer and the applicant and the team for bringing this to the
table. And even though I think less would be better than more, I
think they have followed everything that City guidelines have set
out to do in promoting the affordable housing with this type of a
mixed use.
I think it could use some more parking. It could use some more
open space. It could use a few more things. Couldn't we all? And
I am willing to grant the conceptual approval.
Tim: I am willing to grant this conceptual approval. And I am
willing to change it to AH Zone. I think this is a good plan. It
is not as pleasing to my eye because it is dense but yet I think
that in order to maximize the employee units we have to give the
developer a chance to recoup his investment. If we have 4 big
lots, they are going to have to be big and expensive lots and big
and expensive houses. I would as soon give other people in the
community an opportunity to build free market houses there.
So even though it is not the sweetest deal all the way around it
does give us the employee capability that we want.
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Richard: It does seem a bit jammed in here. And that may be site
constraint as much as anything else. It is, as far as I am
concerned, part of the City so that the density pur'se is not a
problem for me. I am curious as to how within the building
envelope of the affordable units that compares with other projects.
Say the West Hopkins or larger projects like Lone pine or Hunter
Creek.
Denning: Way less. We have got 42,000sqft within this envelope.
We are looking to build 18,000sqft. The FAR is 1.1 to __?__' And
it looks really jammed up here because we just took those boxes and
placed them back over. But if we go up l/2 a floor--we are going
to be able to take half of this off. It looks rough like it is
right now. But believe me by the time we get back through and
around it is going to be a different affordable housing project.
Richard: I am ready to approve it. We have looked at other
projects. Harley brought in an affordable housing project for the
Scrabble pit area and we looked at that. He brought in a spa
before that which was a lot more development than we see here. I
am concerned about the play area being across the driveway. That
doesn't look very workable to me.
Kim: Prior to final we should look at that.
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Jasmine: It seems to me that probably there is going to be some
re-arranging and another area may emerge that would work better
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'-- when we get to the final. considering the time constraints that
the applicant has had I am willing to believe that this is not
their final approach to this project.
Denning: These things are in the next go-around. We wanted to
hurry up and get something that we could show the folks of the
neighborhood. We want to suit them because we are going to be
their neighbors. I want to live here. That is my whole reason for
spending my last nickel and having a heart attack in front of you
folks here.
Roger: I will support the rezoning. with respect to the numbers
and the size of the lots in the free market area I agree with Tim
that if you start going up to l5,000sqft lots for example to match
the rest of Riverside which now I don't consider this part of
Riverside at all--there is very little relationship between this
project and Riverside. But if you follow that rational you would
end up with 45,000sqft houses probably well beyond the means of
most people you want to attract to that area. So I might even
throw up the ball that maybe another lot should be put in there to
get the size of the houses down.
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Jasmine: I agree with the rezoning. I think this is an excellent
parcel despite it's constraints for mixed-use project. I think
Tim's comments and Roger's comments are very well taken even though
it is not part of the Riverside Subdivision. One of the things
that makes Riverside so nice is that people there have yards.
Second home people tend not to have yards. I can tell you from my
own street where 2 monster houses have just gone up with about 6
inches of yard on each side. And that is OK because if you don't
have children and you aren't living here year around what do you
need a yard for? You want media rooms and things like that.
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This kind of project is designed to that even affordable houses
will be meant for people who will be living in this community.
Ideally they might want yards also. And by limiting the size of
the lots you will be limiting the size of the houses and I think
it does make it much more possible that this is going to be a real
neighborhood with people who are in affordable housing projects
that are subsidized by the free market. And the free market people
who are not millionaires but who just want to live here with their
families. So for that reason I support the number of lots that we
have now.
CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL:
Kim: The first 3 conditions are specific to the Riverside
configuration.
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Roger: And #4 should be changed permit for access and emergency
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drive as opposed to the driveway.
Kim: Access drive and emergency drive.
Roger: And why don't we just say "the project" instead of
isolating the affordable townhouse.
Kim: What about #5, Rob?
Thomson: That goes back to some of the reconfiguration of the
blocks that even though you are parking 2 spaces inside, whether
they use one or not in all likelihood they will park in front as
your rendering showed. I just wanted to make sure that that 20
foot access that there is parking in front of each unit--a little
space. I am not looking for 2 spaces out front but out so that it
wasn't encroaching into that 20 feet.
Kim: How about "Parking design for the townhomes shall be reworked
to eliminate conflict between emergency access corridor."
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Roger: The #6--no problem.
Bob: Are you going to require curb and gutter on the access.
Rob: No.
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Roger: So then all curbs and gutters utilized in streets and
parking areas.
Rob: Are you not putting curb and gutter in here too?
Bob: No. We are not.
Rob: The original plan did.
Bob: If we could just put "any" instead of "all".
Kim: Bob, are you still planning to bring utilities across Lot #8
for the free market units?
Bob: No. Actually there will be an access and utilities between
the road. We will have a clear corridor so there is no sense to
cut any vegetation.
Denning: If it is required by the Water Dept to finish that loop
we will do that in the lot line up in the free market. Like on Lot
#1 if we are required to finish the loop into Riverside to that
fire hydrant that is existing in the cul-de-sac.
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Kim: Shall we omit #7?
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Bob: I would just say that there should be utility easements over
all underground installations.
Roger: In other words "There shall be utility easements for
underground utility installations".
Rob: A lot of these are conditions to be looking at for final
approval than they are actual conditions of the conceptual and
rezoning.
Kim: The last half of #7
Bob: We intend to design everything to the satisfaction of the
utility companies and, given the ability to dedicate easements to
meet their requirements, that will be conveyed to the utility
companies in perpetuity.
Kim: So they will be considered public lines except for the
service lines.
Bob: Correct. And the service lines will be the responsibility
of the home owner's association.
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Kim: So we could scratch the last half of that condition.
Roger: So "There shall be utility easements for underground
installation".
Kim: 8 stands. 9 stands. 10 and ll.
Bob: In #lo--is that a provision of the code?
Rob: Yes.
Jasmine: #ll--fine. #12--0K. #l3--#14--
Bob: On #14, we would like to state that ? will be on the
plat instead of recorded prior to the plat so that we are not doing
things by separate instrument so they are recorded on the plat.
Rob: They can be recorded at the same time. I just want to have
the book and page recorded on the plat.
Bob: Can the easements not be recorded on the plat? So we don't
have to do separate instruments. And that way they will be shown-
Rob: No. We need that to be separate instruments.
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Bob: Is that a new requirement?
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Rob: That is a new policy. Yes. It has been something we have
been trying to put in place. Because you are just saying that as
far as just--if it was recorded on the plat it would show that
there is an easement. But according to--unless John wants to work
differently with that and you can get all that language on a plat
that he wants to see there--
Bob: We will do it to your satisfaction.
Rob: My biggest concern is being able to track it once you are
pulling out the plat is to look and see where the easements are
recorded.
Bob: But if it is on the plat then it is on the recorded plat.
Jasmine: #l5 is pretty standard.
I don't know what happened to #16.
Jasmine: #l7
Kim: You will have to work that out now and between final.
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Denning: We are prepared to do that.
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Jasmine: #l8 is OK. #l9. #20 2l,22 and 23.
Sara: I would like to see more open space.
Denning: This will be a lot different when you see it again.
Tim: I am wondering if we use language on one of the other free
market and affordable proj ects that puts the developer in a
position where you have to have so much funding or so much
construction or so much done on the affordable before you start
building or before you can have the free market stuff done. What
I would like to do is see the commitment and the construction to
a certain point before the construction and development of free
market.
Denning: That is going to be the first part to start. We hope to
build next spring. We will give you the proper assurance that that
is going to be one of the first ones because I have already--A.J.
Albright with Colorado First is working with us and A.J. wanted to
get into it after we got through with this meeting.
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Sara: This would be more at final but I would like to have some
sort of a parking plan and storage for construction during the
construction period for the construction vehicles.
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Kim: I have a condition #24. "Applicant shall include an
appropriate financial assurance plan for the affordable housing
units."
The open space situation--do we want to include that as a condition
that the applicant shall further study the play area open space.
Roger: I think that was his representation here. I don't think
we need to include that as a condition. We will remember.
Rob: I think one that we need is to reserve the right for further
review of the ROWand will continue to work with the applicant and
Cdot and bring that to Council.
Tim: Are you planning on having any restrictive covenants within
the free market units so that the houses are somewhat compatible.
Denning:
folks.
We have 7 potential homeowners that are all full time
Tim: So protective covenants of the association--
,,-- Denning: They have got to work with the Housing.
- MOTION
Roger: I move to recommend approval of the East Cooper Affordable
Housing project conceptual PUD development plan with the following
conditions using as the base the Planning Office memo dated
September 8, 1992.
Conditions #l, 2, and 3 have been deleted.
Condition #4 modified
Transportation must grant
emergency drive.
to read: Colorado Department of
access permit for the access drive and
Condition #5 modified to read: The parking design for the
townhomes shall be re-worked to eliminate conflicts with emergency
access and parking spaces shall be indicated on the final PUD
submission.
Condition #6 modified
parking areas must
specifications.
to read: Any curbs, gutters, streets and
be designed and constructed to city
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Condition #7 modified to read: There shall be utility easements
for underground installations.
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- Conditions #8, 9, lO, ll, l2, l3, l4, 15, l6, 17, l8, 19, 20, 2l
corrected 22 and corrected 23 are as in the Planning Office memo.
New Condition #24: By final submission applicant will come up with
a method of guaranteeing construction of the affordable housing
units.
New Condition #25:
parking and service
neighboring property
By final submission applicant will have a
plan for construction to keep vehicles off
and streets.
New Condition #26: The Engineering Department reserves the right
to further review the ROW.
Richard seconded the motion with all in favor.
Jasmine then adjourned the business portion of the meeting. Time
was 7:00 PM.
commission then continued with work session on the City Shop Master
Plan.
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