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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 3. 1992
Chairman Jasmine Tygre called meeting to order at 4:30pm.
Answering roll call were Tim Mooney, Sara Garton, Bruce Kerr, Roger
Hunt and Jasmine Tygre. David Brown arrived shortly after roll
call. Richard Compton was excused.
COMMISSION COMMENTS
Jasmine commented on the differences between City Planning & Zoning
Commission and County Planning & Zoning commission.
STAFF COMMENTS
Kim asked for a short discussion regarding P&Z reviews of growth
management exemptions for net leasable less than 500sqft at end of
this agenda.
PUBLIC COMMENT
There was none.
BELL MOUNTAIN LODGE GMOS SCORING. CODE AMENDMENT
LP ZONE PARKING REGULATIONS. SPECIAL REVIEW FOR PARKING
Jasmine opened the public hearing.
MOTION
Bruce made motion to continue this hearing to date certain of
December 8, 1992 at the request of the applicant.
Roger seconded the motion with all in favor.
311 WEST NORTH STREET LANDMARK DESIGNATION
(BLOCK)
Jasmine opened the public hearing.
Kim: Made presentation as attached in record.
David: Where is the parking going?
Jasmine: We are just doing the designation.
Kim: We could look at the actual conditional use part of the
project--the next item.
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Bruce: I have some concern about considering these separately.
Whereas I don I t have any problem by itself with the historic
designation, I may have some problems with conditional use on the
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site development. I don't know how we are going to handle that.
But if we grant the historic designation, that sort of opens the
door to the conditional use.
Jasmine: They are 2 different actions. The conditional use
probably could not be granted without the historical designation.
But the historical designation could be granted without the
conditional use.
Kim: Or if the designation went forward and was obtained by
Council and you made the finding--you placed conditions on the
conditional use that would require parking or vegetation, that
would be your choice. Then it would be up to the applicant to
either amend their application or not proceed.
Jasmine: Why would this be subject to conditional use review and
yet an addition--is the size the thing that triggers and brings
forth the conditional use?
Kim: It is the second dwelling unit on the site. Both with the
conditional use review oversees is the addition of a free market
dwelling unit on the site in effect creating a duplex. It could
be condominiumized in the future. The size of the site requires
that designation be approved to allow the second unit. The site
is not large enough for a full duplex in the zone district. So it
is a density bonus in effect on the smaller site.
Bruce: What is the maximum allowable FAR without landmark
designation? How much expansion could you do on this lot without
landmark designation without calling it a duplex?
Kim: It could not be a duplex.
Leslie: The HPC has the ability to grant a floor area if it is
needed from a site design--
Bruce: What I am getting at--I want to figure out what the
potential is as it is right now without landmark designation and
what the potential is with the landmark designation. What the
ultimate potential buildout is for that lot at 7,500sqft. with and
without designation. That is what I am trying to get at.
Block: If I read the code correctly, it is the same amount. Now
the existing FAR is 1,314 sqft. That is less than the actual
because part of it is underground. The allowable FAR is 3,450
sqft. And we are proposing 2,800 sqft.
Bruce: Of countable FAR. Actual square footage would be more than
that.
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Block: Actual square footage is 3,300 sqft.
Kim: My memo says total FAR which--he is correct. Some of it is
underground.
What I calculated out allowable FAR on 7, 500sqft for a single
family dwelling is 3,690.
David: Under HPC you get a bonus on top of that 3,690.
Vickery: They could grant an FAR bonus but they are not requesting
an FAR bonus.
Sara: So 3,690 would be above ground.
Leslie: That includes your 500sqft for a garage which is in the
code.
Bruce: That can happen without landmark designation either through
a teardownjrebuild or through an expansion or addon to the existing
residence.
Block: Actually the only thing that we wanted in the addition of
the house was a second kitchen. And of course the second kitchen
needs a duplex.
Bruce: A single family residence is not allowed to have 2
kitchens?
Leslie: No.
David: One of the areas that you are saying it complies with the
requirements for HPC is size and community character being a small
house. what size of a structure does a structure no longer conform
in character?
Kim: That is HPC's decision.
Leslie: From the perspective that this is a Bayer home and Herbert
Bayer was a well known architect in the world and this community,
do you all have a problem with that from this historic designation
aspect of this? Or is it really the ability for them to add on a
second unit and seek parking variances and things like that?
Jasmine: The HPC criteria indicates that the dwelling itself is
not all that significant as an example of Herbert Bayer's work--
that the criteria that apply have to do with it's role within the
community having specifically to do with it's size. And then on
the other hand you are doubling the size of it. So this
contradiction is very apparent to everybody right off the bat.
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Those are the criteria we are asked to give historic designation
to--not because it is like the best example of Herbert Bayer's work
in town or even the second best example of Herbert Bayer'S work in
town. But it happens to be Herbert Bayer and it is small. So we
say it is Herbert Bayer'S and it is small and therefore it should
be historically designated, then at the same time you are turning
around and saying to us "Well, yes, but we are going to double the
size of it". It kind of makes it very difficult for us to come to
grips with this.
Block: We are not actually doubling the size of it. We are
building another unit on the property that is just connected at one
corner.
Tim: Then let me take it one step further. E and F says that the
structure or site is a significant component or an historical
significant neighborhood so if you take that and you attach
something to it, I can't see how it is significant to the HPC
character of the neighborhood. And then F says the structure or
site is critical to the preservation of the character of the Aspen
community. Well if in fact we are looking at it like it is a
Herbert Bayer house and it is 1,400sqft and it is unique to that
lot, I don't see how if we allow you to build another structure
right next door to it how it is going to still comply with these
2 criterion.
And then like Sara said if we don't go along
tear it down and build a 3,600sqft monster.
of that either.
with this then you can
And I am not in favor
Block: That is what could happen because it is a very small house.
David: What is the setback proposed on the property line adjacent
to the alley house?
MPT
Sara: I am in favor of the historic designation for this
application. The way this is designed, to me, is unobtrusive. It
is connected at the corner and it may even enhance the structure
the way it is now. So I feel that it is not going to change the
looks of the site a lot from what is there now. And it is going
to replicate Bayer. I don't think we can let a Bayer structure
slip away even if it isn't the finest example.
Richard: Part of the Bayer house design was to create the simple
repetitive vernacular structure using the modern materials so that
in that sense I think that to say some other structure which may
be unique in design but certainly the dwelling units that are being
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torn down now are insignificant only in their size--not in their
design.
Block then showed photos of surrounding structures in the neighbor-
hood.
MOTION
Sara: I make a motion for landmark designation for the parcel at
311 West North Street finding that standards E and F have been met.
Richard seconded the motion with all in favor except David.
Jasmine closed the public portion of this part of the hearing.
BLOCK CONDITIONAL USE REVIEW
Jasmine opened the public hearing.
Kim made presentation as attached in record.
Sara: What is the logic for HPC to review parking on a landmark
designation when it is a planning issue?
Kim: That has been a recent discussion in the office. HPC is
called upon to make findings in a parking variation situation that
additional parking is not compatible or can detract from the
resource. So that if too much pavement or wide open graveled space
or if there were significant vegetation on the site that may have
been dated back with the structure. The fact that there is space
on the site for parking that the Commission could find that if the
impact on the neighborhood were warranted, 6 parking spaces but HPC
might feel that that would be a detraction to the resource.
Jasmine: The concern is that if for example we gave conditional
use approval but one of the conditions of approval was the creation
of X number of parking spaces. The applicant could still go back
to HPC, request a review and a reduction of parking, and get it.
Kim: Right now we are of the opinion that the use and any
conditions based on that use is determined by P&Z.
Vickery: This project has conceptual approval from HPC already.
So they have already conceptually approved parking variation and
conceptually approved the design.
Kim: In regards to fact that there is a second dwelling unit being
requested this parcel could be condominiumized and sold to 2
separate parties, 2 separate sets of occupancy.
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David: My recollection is in R-6 there is a 7 and 1/2 minimum
setback with 15 total. The plans are showing a 6 and 112ft setback
on the west side with an eave encroaching a foot or foot and 1/2.
It is not scaled so I don't know exactly what the overhang would
be. My recollection is also that eaves are not allowed to protrude
into setbacks.
Kim: Minimum side yard setback is 5ft for a lot this size. And
it expands so that the larger the lot the greater the setback.
Block: The total side setbacks on both sides have to amount to 22
and 1/2 feet.
Kim: I think there is allowable roof overhang also but I don't
know if it is 12 inches or 13 inches.
David: I have no problem with this being a duplex. It is the
design of the duplex I have a problem with. If anything it would
be the character of the back yard relative to the little house
adjacent which I feel is the most historically appropriate
structure on the block. I think it is a sweet little alley house
and it is an example of what the alley ___?___'
Block: Actually it is the newest structure on the block.
David: But it fits the character of what I consider the west end
in a very sweet way. I think giving a little more elbow room to
that little house next door would be an appropriate consideration.
But as long as it fulfills the minimum setback requirement and we
are not here to talk about the sculptural appropriateness of the
house so I can't address that.
I would like to see 1 parking space per bedroom. I have no problem
with the duplex. I think any approval of a duplex should have a
little more setback on that side and I think this body should have
an opportunity to review a redesign of the building to see that it
does conform and preserving the character of not just the original
neighborhood but the house and the architectural integrity thereof.
I don't' think it is quite there.
Roger: I agree strongly with David with respect to the setback.
I think we should address that in relationship to the carriage
house. I have no problems with the duplex. My goal under these
circumstances would be to satisfy the parking requirement in view
that it could be condominiumized or 2 ownerships.
Tim: I would like to add that we make a motion to re-examine this
conditional use and I think that we should do that after it has
received it's official HPC designation. I have a lot of problems
with the design and I think that it would be important for me to
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know that they have accepted the HPC designation before I move
forward with a conditional use of what the additional dwelling unit
is actually going to do to impact the site.
Jasmine: If I am reading this correctly #15 and #3 have carriage
houses that are occupied so that--
Block: This is a garage and it has a room in there. The owner
rents this house out to music students in the summer.
This was a carriage house and it has been made into a separate
dwelling unit. The building itself ends here, not up against the
property line and the space between the carriage house--at one time
it was a carriage house--and the property line is a storage lean-
to that has been built very recently.
There was further discussion regarding the carriage house and the
lean-to.
Roger: I have a little less problem with that then. Then what is
the setback of the existing Ringsby house?
Block: The property line is on this side of the fence. The fence
is on Ringsby's property. I am only guessing but I think it is
around 3 or 4 feet at the narrowest point. There are no windows
on this side of the house other than obscure glass.
Roger: The new addition is set back from the Ringsby house.
After further discussion--
Jasmine: I was concerned about our responsibility to the
neighborhood. It seems to me this is a neighborhood of fairly
small single-family houses on fairly large lots. What we are
approving here is in effect a duplex which could be condom in-
iumized. Even though the present use is for the applicant's family
and grandchildren we can't really assume that that is going to be
the state of affairs forever. I think when you include that kind
of thing in the memo it is sort of misleading because we really
can't make a land use decision based on what the current applicants
are going to use it for whatever their family is. We have to think
about what the long range effects are. It seems to me that if we
have the possibility of a condominiumized duplex in this area we
darned well better provide parking. And so I am unhappy with the
plan in that regard.
As a general consensus there are some varying problems with the
conditional use as it is currently proposed. If the HPC approval
is denied by city council then all of this discussion is pointless
because this could not be done at all.
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MOTION
Tim: I would make a motion that we table the conditional use and
public hearing for a duplex at the Block property until it has been
approved by city Council as historical preservation designation and
at that time we re-examine the site specific of their proposal.
The date certain then would be our first meeting in January.
David seconded the motion.
Jasmine then asked for public comment.
There was none.
Everyone then voted in favor of the motion except Roger and
Richard. Motion carries 5 to 2.
Meeting was adjourned. Time was 5:45pm.
Janice
commission then continued with discussion on reviews of growth
management exemptions for net leasable less than 500sqft.
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