HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.council.19750423 Councilmembers Markalunas, Breasted, De Gregroio and Mayor Standley were present.for a --~
discussion with the Mall Commission members on their proposed Restaurant Policy. Present'
from the Mall Commission were Fiedler, Fleisher, Cattell, Baar and Groen. Also present
was City Manager Mahoney.
Fiedler gave a brief outline as to what would be discussed those being 1) the Restaurant
Policy 2) Summer recommendations and 3) Events policy
Fleisher asked the Councilmembers to come up with their ideas as to what kind of character
the malls should have, the form of activities that should be in the mall, and what the
they think the purpose of the mall is. Fleisher mentioned the memo which was given to
City Attorney Stuller, from which City Attorney Stuller drew Resolution #16, Series of
1975 from. In this memo was mentioned getting rid of the automobile and landscaping the
public ways to enhance the shopping experience in the downtown area; thus having to go
into the malls and look at the restaurants and if there are too many public events that
could take a reversal on the mall and people could lose site of what the original purpose
of the mall is.
Councilman De Gregorio mentioned that he wasn't interested in seeing all of the activities
taking placein the mall. He would rather see the mall have more trees and sculptures,
more restaurants and not to have the restaurants only on the sidewalks, and would like
to see the people sit and enjoy the mall thus enhancing the shopping experience.
Fleisher told Councilmembers that the Mall Commission needed a policy now .so that the
restaurants involved could get a criteria as to what the Mall Commission was going to do.
Fleisher mentioned that he would like to see a loose design and not see restaurants have
rigid barriers or fences and would like to see natural tropical terrain.
Mayor Standley agreed with Councilman De Gregorio adding that whatever is necessary for
the restaurants they should be able to do and that they should be allowed to serve liquor
outside.
Fleisher felt that having physical barriers surrounding the restaurants was a deterrent
to the landscaping. He mentioned that he would like to see the State Liquor Department
come up saying that it isn't necessary to build a fence or some kind of barrier outside
the restaurants serving liquor. Mayor Standley felt that the barriers aren't attractive
but has no problem dealing with them just as long as the restaurants are able to serve
liquor. Fleisher mentioned that Ulrych says that if serving liquor means that it will
ruin the outside appearance of the restaurant then it shouldn't be served. Councilwoman
Markalunas questioned the .State Liquor Department's philosophy as to why it is necessary
to have the restaurants enclosed and why plants and natural design isn't enough. A
member from the Mine and Commission Company mentioned the fact that a restaurant can have
both design and liquor; however, since the premises are not definately defined and the
design is only temporary that is the reason for having a barrier and that when the final
plan is designed the Mall Commission will be able to incorporate natural designs.
Councilwoman Markalunas felt that as far as the special events was concerned that they
should take place only a couple days a week not every day because that's not the real
purpose of the mall to have alot of activity out in the mall.
Groen asked if any of the Councilmembers had any objections to limiting the restaurant
expansion into the malls. He mentioned that they were trying to take a different
approach and hopefully come up with better solutions. Fleisher mentioned that the policy
doesn't have to be so rigid, but some restaurants when asking to serve liquor in the
malls need to be handed some guidelines as to why they can't serve liquor in the malls.
Councilman Breasted mentioned three suggestions to the current policy, those being:
1) the restaurant area should be larger 2) the only furniture that should be used are
tables, chairs, and umbrellas 3) and the enclosures shouldn't be permanent
Mayor Standley suggested that the Mall Commission should let the restaurants do what they
want to do since the Mall Commission isn't ready to come up with any rigid guidelines. If
the Mall Commission is really interested in experimenting then they ought to treat each
restaurant different and let each one of the restaurants do something different. Some
of the restaurants may do something very useful and exciting; and since the Mall Commission
really doesn't know what they want, maybe the resturant's ideas will be very useful. Mayor
Standley continued to say that planning is not a very structured process and going through
a planning process should not be treated with structure and set up with rigid guidelines.
If that is the case, it may force the plan into one type of restaurant thus ending up
looking all the same.
Fleisher suggested that he read each point on the handout and together they can cover
point by point and make recommendations as to how that point can be changed. Number 1:
That all owners of restaurants abutting the Aspen Pedestrian Mall .... a.) avoid establishing
structural boundaries to define the extended restaurants area in lieu thereof, define
the limits of the restaurant extension with changes in surface material, moveable planters
and objects and changes in terrain. Everyone agreed and Mayor Standley commented that
as long as it meets the liquor code and is flexible enough to use materials that will
satisfy the liquor code.
Point b.) Establish a restaurant extension area not greater than 20% of the existing
food service seating capacity of the restaurant extended, not wider than the mall frontage
of the restaurant extended, and not creating an island. Fiedler explained that 20% is
derived from the percentage of tables that are able to be moved outside of the restaurant
into the mall. However, looking at that percentage and taking a restaurant such as
Incredible Edibles they would only have 1 table sitting outside. On the other hand looking
at the Red Onion, 20% of the tables from the inside would be too many tables outside.
Therefore, it was decided to have a minimum amount of tables that have to be outside in
the mall and there will be a maximum of tables in the malls from each restaurant. Fleisher
mentioned the reason for the 20% is they want to avoid a restaurant from taking the whole
operation from the inside of the restaurant to the outside; thus depriving the public of
their rights to other things out in the mall.
Baar asked Mayor Standley if he felt that the Government can be completely arbitrary in
that how it can give away City property to individuals, thereby interfering with free
trade. Mayor Standley replied, "no." Baar continued to say that he felt that the leases
should be made available to all the restaurants in the City of Aspen. Councilman Breasted
and Mayor Standley felt that that was a great idea. There was much discussion following
as to where certain restaurants would put their tables, it was suggested that the parking
in front of their restaurant could be used for the space. Also questioned was who would
decide between the City Council and the Mall Commission if the restaurant fit the criteria.
Nothing was really decided.
Fleisher read the next item on the handout which dealt with islands. He commented that
the Mall Coramission wasn't planning to have islands; however, at this point in the meeting
it sounds like there will be islands; therefore what has to be discussed about this
point is how much a public right of way the islands should maintain so that there can
be an adequate walkway around it. It was suggested that the restaurantS should maintain
the width of the sidewalk.
The next item read; the restaurants should serve two meals a day and be open to the public
at least 9 hours a day and must make 1/2 of their gross be receipts from sale of food and
the reason for these receipts is so that there are not saloons in the mall; and the
reason for serving two meals a day is so a restaurant doesn't take up public space for
only two or three hours a day and leaving it vacant the rest of the day with their
furniture left out. Mayor Standley suggested that if the restaurant is going to be open
less than 7 hours a day that they must remove their furniture when it's nOt open. Fleishe~
thought that that was a good idea.
Fiedler asked if Councilmembers wanted a complete liquor operation out in the mall with
just a bar. An example is the Paragon which isn't earning anywhere near 50% on just food
sales. Mayor Standley mentioned that they have to have food available when the restaurant
is open. Fiedler wasn't happy with a 50% food sales receipt; he felt that there would
be more bars out in the mall than restaurants. Councilman Breasted mentioned that it
could just be an experiment and if it doesn't work then next year it can be changed.
Councilwoman Markalunas felt that this could give the Mall Commission leverage so that
next year they could point to it and say that they had tried it.
Fleisher continued reading Item e) design an extension 1) without fences, 2) with furnitur
fixtures and planter boxes consistent with the general design guidelines of the Mall and
3) clearly define a convenient transitiOnal walkway from one side of the restaurant
area~ around the restaurant area, and back to an existing sidewalk 4) retain all service
facilities, bus trays, hot plates, water dispensing equipment and dish storage in storage
areas. :Members from the Mine and Commission Company questioned the fact that bus trays
wouldn't be allowed thus dirty plates would have to sit on the tables. Councilwoman
Markalunas suggested that the restaurants have covered bus stations.
Fleisher continued reading Item e) and agree to maintain and manage the extent of the
premises 24 hours a day that is assuming there are facilities left outside which they
are responsible for and Item f) (without reading all the words---) paying $15.00 per seat
per year and if given a years lease they can use it anytime they want. Fiedler asked
Fleisher to explain how he came up with that figure. Fleisher didn't have the exact
method as to how he came up with the 50% but said that it was something like 50% of the
value of heated space of the outdoor area and figured that it would be in use for about
1/3 of the year. It is the present market valUe of square footage. Mayor Standley
questioned Fleisher's method explaining that when there is a design plan and on the plan
there are 6 tables and 4 chairs around each table, which gives you 24X15; however, when
it's busy someone will come by and will grab a chair and will fill the table and instead
of 24 chairs outside by the particular restaurant there will be 30-35 chairs. So
relating it back to a square foot basis you have a definable objective; however if
talking about chairs they move pretty easily and can change a whole lot. Mayor Standley
suggested that the Mall Commission come up with a square foot basis.
A member from the Mine and Commission Company asked what the Mall Commission plans on
basing these objectives on; example 1 year, 6 months. Fiedler told him that they would
be based on a yearly basis. Breasted suggested that they should be run only until the
first of May since next year they were going to modify the policy. Fielder thought that
that was a good idea.
Fiedler brought up the Recommendations for the summer, those being 1) developing a
childrens play area, 2) improving the signs in the mall, 3) vegetation improvements, i.e.
taking out broken trees and plants, 4) the bandstand, and 5) developing a system where
newspapers and waste materials are all incorprated in one facility. Cattell mentioned
that alot of these things could be carried over to the final design. Fielder said that
Cole checked out two possible locations for the childrens play area those being next to
the banstand, on different sides of the bandstand. The price for the childrens play area
would be $2,500.00. As far as vegetation and repairing, they are a maintenance type
thing and wouldn~include any great expense. The signs are going to be repainted. The
trash containers will be one facility including a rack for newspapers, a trash c~tainer,
and someplace to put cigarette butts. As far as the bandstand area we feel that it is
too high; the people have to look up into the sun when anyone is performing. We would
like to lower the bandstand and excavate some dirt and build a temporary berm. Fleisher
mentioned taht they were thinking of an amplitheatre and in the final design they were
thinking of that area for the amplitheatre. Fielder told Councilmembers that they would
come up with a better plan for the bandstand and present it to them at a later date.
Fielder also mentioned that they were going to work on an events policy so that the mall
doesn't look like a 24 hour circus.
Eliz~eth M. Kl~m, ~epu~Y City Clerk