HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.council.19750904 Mayor Standley opened the meeting with Councilwoman Johnston, City Manager Mahoney, and
City Attorney Stuller present to discuss with the County Commissioners the trails
agreement. County Commissioners present were Michael Kinsley, A1 Blomquist, George Ochs,
and Joe Edwards.
Mayor Standley mentioned that City Attorney Stuller has drafted the proposed trials agree-
ment and what Edwards would like to do is to get the City to the point of going ahead and
doing something with the agreement. The question which came up on part of the Council
was what kind of involvement does the city want with the trails and if the trails within
the City if they should be a subset of recreation thus treating the trails as part of
recreation. Ted Armstrong, Director of Parks and Recreation was also present and because
the trails are part of recreation it should be discussed in that total concept. The3City
has adopted a City/County trial map that has been formally adopted by both boards, but
the implementation on it is not very fast in the City and much more agressive in the County
The City, at this point, would like to stay in the recreation business and let the County
be in the trails business and that is the reason the County put the trails out on the City
golf course and the trial from the Islin pool down to Maroon Creek. The City hasn't
bascially cooperated other than making right of way availableto the County when they need
it. Mayor Standley suggested that Joe Edwards go through the Counties position and what
the County wants to do especially the idea of condemning trails within the City limits and
then have Ted Armstrong explain his recreation department; what's involved in it, what the
magnitude of it is, who participates, and how the trails would fit in.
Edwards explained that what had participated City Attorney Stuller's and his conversation
was the fact that the trails were coming together without any real.understanding between
City and County on what was going on. An example is the trail from Islin Park and the
golf course which was built last year and there has never been an easement granted to the
County and it is actually within the City limits. Just recently, counties were given
authority to install trails in of themselves and the past regulations with respect to
their operation and it is a class three misdemeanor for violation; it is a new Bill so now
the County has passed a supplemental resolution and they are calling them trails and
secondary roads. The county is running into significant problems with respect to the
acquisition right of way. Edwards went on to explain that even though they have an adopted
City/County plan, which will work fine in areas like the Benedict project, but in areas
that have already been developed; single family residential, chances of getting a trail
through those areas without going into combination are relatively remote. The question
then arises; does the County have the right to condemn within the City limits for trails
and/or County secondary roads. There seems to be some authority that Mick has which will
be referred to C~ty Attorney Stuller and will get a copy of it that.will state that the
County can do that. There is also some statutes that City Attorney Stuller is aware of
which states when the City annexes property the County roads cam become City Roads. The
question has arisen as to who is going~to repair, patrol, clean up, sign, restrict and
enforce the trails. Also, what about the trials that are within the City that the County
built or that are in the City property that the County built or in the County that the
City built; it is a disorganized jurisdiction. Edwards continued saying that his purpose
is to get some feeling as to what is going to be done with the trails. Should the City
own all of the trails within the City limits as City Attorney Stuller's agreement draft
kind of proposed and police them and maintain them and sign them; and should the County
conversly do everything outside the City limits; or should the County own and supervise
the mall and have the sheriff enforce them under this new act. If the City maintains
jurisdiction over some and the County maintains jurisdiction over some then we ought to
have uniform signing and substantial uniform regulations. We have to come to some kind
of understanding on who is going to own them. The County puts asphalt down on your propert
and there is nothing in writing that says we own it. Some kind of structure ought to be
established and the relathionships and the responsibilities for maintenance and enforcement
clearly defined. For example the bicycle trail to the high school is almost becoming
impassable by thistles and the City put it in and the County has never put a sign on it
or done anything with it and yet it is not in the City limits so who should go out there
and cut the thistles down. Edwards also feels that there ought to be keys to the posts
that there should be posts that keep cars out and locks on the posts.
The second level of problem, Edwards continued, is if the County decided to condemn an
important link then it would be iron clad if that link was in the City limits and the
City Council would participate. If it was just the County, the Statute seems to say
that the County can't do it within the City limits; the qualification is that if it fits ir
and ties in with the other County roads we call them secondary roads. That might be a
defense ascerted; we don't have the right to do that and it occurs to me that the condenmi~
zation would be definately for certain if the City would join with the County in such a
condemnization in which case it is going to have to be something which the City agrees
is an important link because everybody goes solid when they hear condemnization.
Edwards continued saying that the County is spending alot of money for trail links that
are some recreation and some are really going to be important City commuter routes. Most
of the trail construction has been in Aspen area and most of the planned future constructi¢
is in the immediate Aspen area with certain noteable exceptions and it would be appro-
priate if the City would participate in it; perhaps totally or shared with the County.
The adopted plan only really defines corridors and doesn't actually define particular
actual locations and the City through the Planning Office has imput where the County is
putting them; but the Council itself doesn't want to get involved. The County Commissionel
feel that the trails is really more than recreation and believes that the trails will
be going into commuter links.
Edwards pointed out what the County Commissioners feel is important to do within the next
year and all of it is urban links and they will be going with the idea of condemnization
because the County is running in opposition from the land owners. A bicycle loop around
the urban area would be valuable, the poeple would be on the loop and would be able to get
to other places in town without having to get on the street network system and therefore
it is the County's intention to try and develop a bicycle loop that would loop around the
town and when it gets down to Hunter Creek changes from a bicycle trail to a hiking trail.
We would like a commuter loop as opposed to a recreation loop and at the same time we are
trying to locate it in a place that is pleasant so we could put in the Rio Grande trail
which will draw the people from the Western portion of the City and they can all go down t¢
the Slaughter House bridge and take it up and come to town as opposed to coming up on the
highway. The other links we would like to do; however we are running into static about,
are the Smuggler Mountain loop which appears we will not get without condemnization, a
portion of which is in the City and a portion of which is in the County. The loop from
highway 82 back to Ute Avenue is all in the City and it looks like that is going to go if
conceptual approval of the Benedict is granted and that will loop on the other side of
Crystal lake as now proposed across the river and then run into Benedict's new office
building and up the old wagon road to the corner of the Ute Children's Park and then
pick up on wagon road from the Ute Cemetery and un all the way to Glory Hole Park. We will
build it as soon as the easements are available. If that happens and if we can get con-
demnation of Smuggler Mountain together then'we have half of the circle dOne. Other links
that we felt were important where there is discussiOn as to where this link ought to go;
originally the adopted plan takes the trail down castle creek all the homesites and lot
owners have built up on the bluff, there is no development down there and is in nature of
the Rio Grande Property so if it ran straight down Castle Creek across the corner of the
institute picnic area, that would put together about 3/4 of the link that we are talking
about and the only thing that Would~be lacking would then be a route across the base of the
mountain which might parallel the midland right of way and a section through the Marolt
~roperty on the south of the Castle Creek Bridge where there is a nice plateau, and coming
down would not interfe~r with that property and then come up Seventh Street. However, the
lot owners are opposing to the trail even though they can't get down to it without repellin
because it is so steep which means 3 or 4 of those lots would have to be condemned and the
Institute got very solid when they tried to get the approval and nothing hapPened, maybe
CU would be easier to deal. So it looks like if we wanted to put the trail through there i
have to mean condemnization. Another alternative would be to run it along Red Butte
Road and alot of people in this area that it's strictly a commutor trail and not a recreati
trail and it really isn't an experience. The other trail links in the back of the Court
House, since we have picked up this piece of property and Planning on a bicycle trail along
the river it would be nice to continue that along and have it come up the Riverside Trailer
Park area. That would also have to be some kind of condemnization and it would go right
over ~o Herrin Park and that could put together the Roaring FOrk Greenway plan.
Mayor Standley said that the City has the easement for the trails and have tried to dedicat
them this summer but found that they were out in the river.
Edwards said that the City owns the Ute Cemetery area all the Way into the river front to
Water Street and there happens to be a retained easement with the Water street subdivision
that would allow the City to connect in there but not alot of development on the other side
of the river and would be neat if the bicycle trail could come all the way in from where Ut.
Cemetery area is, all the way down to Mill Street Bridge and begin to bring the Roaring
Fork Greenway plan into effect; that would be a through town connection and would be
valuable. They are also trying to think of a way to get from Stein Bridge to the Maroon
Creek Bridge on Highway 82.
Mayor Standley asked Armstrong as to whether he feels that the trails relate to his program
in terms of his ability timewise and manpower.
Armstrong said that he didn't have enough people to do it with because the budget is not
good enough. It would have to be the Council's decision if they would want the Recreation
Department to be involved. Last year the budget was $350,000 in which land payments, the
recreation funds came from, and the parks funds came from. Also there were 6.5 people
who worked for approximately $3.50 per hour for 5 months and 4 people on the golf course
which also came from that. There was alotted $73,000 for salaries and out of that was
$44,000 for regular salaries and $18,000 for temporary help and the rest was for equipment.
Mayor Standley asked that if the budget were available if Armstrong would have the time
and the ability to take on the trails program from a maintenance point of view. Armstrong
said that he would if the budget was adequate.
Mayor Standley asked Edwards if the trails were being maintained at all. Edwards said that
they had been. The Islin Park Trail was completely rebuilt and there are 2 or 3 actual cre ~s
going on both maintenance and construction; alot of maintenance on the'Hunter Creek trail.
Standley questioned if it would be more appropriate for the County to take on the entire
trails and for the City to participate financially; for for the City to take on the main-
tenance. Mayor Standley felt that the City shouldn't be involved in the building because
there isn't much building in the City, Armstrong is not a building director he is a parks
recreation director.
Edwards said that their intention is to continue the program and once they get the desgin
done it doesn't mean they will stop. This year the County expanded out to Snowmass and
built some substantial trial links and they will be moving out to other trial areas as soon
as the trail network gets completed in the Aspen urban area. The County would like to
involve the City in the trails that immediately affect the immediate area both from a
planning standpoint and financial participation.
~ichael Kinsley suggested that since the County is picking up the trails, maybe the City
could pick up the parks and that could be the tradeoff.
Mayor Standley thought that that sounded like a logical thing to do; for the City to take
care of parks and the County Parks as far out as the Airport Business Center and for usl''~
to agree to join you in condemnization for approved adopted trails within the City to
completely eliminate whether you have the legality or not. If we just went to a Straight
trade off and try not allocate the whole thing as to whether we spend $80,000 on main-
taining your parks and you spend $70,000 on building your trails that seems like a logical
approach to me.
Study Session Aspen City Council September 4, 1975
Mayor Standley suggested that the City should adopt the Counties trail master plan and
the County should adopt the Cities recreation master plan which is based on the build
out under existing zoning that can take place in theCity but effectively he is looking
at the population based on the entire Roaring Fork Valley. If the County would adopt
the recreation plan that would give the City the cloud, especially the idea of working
with Brian of permanent housing making a subdivision dedication fee that's based on
the acquisition cost of land outside the City limits for active parks versus open space
in the City which is more expensive and still let the absentee owner pay the high ticket
price and the permanent resident pay the low ticket price to try and bring down the cost
of residential housing. That plan would have to be slightly updated.
Shellman felt that they should get the planning office to get the parking plan and the
trail plan together and let them extend into a capital sowe'dhave an idea of what the
next 5 years money we really should be talking about. If the City is into parks,
$350,000; and the counties into trails, $250,000; maybe we should come up with $350,000
fOr an equal push of maybe for some kind of allocation of tasks of whose buying land,
who gets what better funds, and what chances are there of getting State participation.
There are alot of ~hose things that are not really looked at until they have to be
budgeted for. Even if it is a five year budget it is better to be able to pick and choose
from it and at least have a sense of priority and that is what has been missing from
our plans is a longer view so if we want to say we want to go to Herren Park with a
trail how we could go a little futher but not this year but opens a whole new threshold
and everybody says it would be nice to go to the next step and that's what we would
like to say we could do.
Mayor Standley suggested to have an action plan to 1) have City Attorney Stuller redraft
the agreement to encompass what is being talked about basically County responsibility
for the trail, CitY for recreation and Armstrong work with the planning office, 2) update
the recreation plan so it's sensatized basically to the upper Roaring Fork Valley and
with Don Rogers and Louis Butterbaugh put toghther a budget and then have another meeting
to put all these three facets together --1) the financing, 2) the adopting, and 3) the
adoption of the agreement.
City Attorney said that what they would like her to do is to adopt both a park and
trails agreement, and allocating responsibility for construction and maintenance,
management and policing to the County for trails, and to the City for parks whether they
be within or out of the City. One step further to adopt their County trail map to
justify our actiVities and they adopt our recreation plan both to justify our dedication
fees and one step further and direct the planning office intricate the trails and
park plans suggest the capital improvement plan for at least 5 years for it and start
allocating past from that not necessary from this agreement but that's the intention
and the rights of condemnation will be as they stand now. The policing maintenance
construction of trails whether they be within the City or County will be the County and
will pick up the parks in the County and any new parks that will be built in the County.
Mayor Standley asked that the Trails Condemnization be added to the agenda for the Council
meeting to be held MOnday, September 8, at 5:00 p.m.
Meeting adjourned at 6:10.
~ K~l~,~Y~'~ity' Clerk
Eli~eth M.