HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19940322
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING , ZONING COMMISSION
MARCH 22. 1994
Chairman Bruce Kerr called meeting to order at 4:30 P.M.
Answering roll call were David Brown, Sara Garton, Jasmine
and Bruce Kerr. Tim Mooney arrived shortly after roll call.
Hunt was excused and Robert Blaich was absent.
Tygre
Roger
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
There were none.
STAFF COMMENTS
Leslie: Because of the Superblock John Bennett has suggested that
we hold 2 day-long work sessions. The first one on April 9 from
9:00 A.M. to 2: P.M. The second one on April 15 from 8:30 A.M to
2:00 P.M. Attending the meeting will be 4 members from Council.
We need 4 members for P&Z, 4 members of the Development Team, HPC
member, CCLC member, Clean Air Board, ACRA, BOCC, a member of the
Transportation Committee, Neighborhood Advisory Group, Aspen Ski
\...". Co., Environmental Group and citizens At Large.
The meeting will be at the Gibbons Institute. Food and beverage
will be furnished.
The O'Block conditional use on this agenda is being moved to April
19th. They messed up on their public notice.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There were none.
MINUTES
MARCH 1. 1994
Jasmine made a motion to approve minutes of March 1, 1994.
Sara seconded the motion with all in favor.
TENTH MOUNTAIN DIVISION
CONTINUED HEARING
Mary Lackner, Planning made presentation as attached in record.
sunny Vann, representative for applicant: When we first came in
and condominiumized the Benedict Office Building. The Benedicts
made a charitable donation of a substantial portion of the building
to the MAA. They also gave several Condominium units to the 10th
~ Mountain Division which was already occupying the building. And
basically wanted the remainder of the spaces to the existing
tenants.
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This is a non-conforming use with the underlying zone district in
order to make the club a legal use. outdoor Recreation Area is
permitted and the RR zone district they zoned the whole property
RR. This lot was subsequently created, the Benedict Building was
already there. It became a non-conforming use.
We got concerned about conveying the condominium units to the
individual recipients because it was a non-conforming use. We came
back in and submitted an application for SPA approval. All that
did was make the existing office uses a conforming use in the zone
district which meant once these units were conveyed to the
individual owners they could finance them.
At the time of that SPA application there was a house called the
Ball Residence that was historically significant that Fritz had
designed which he wanted to locate to this portion of the property
as an affordable housing unit for the 10th Mountain Association.
There is an avalanche hazard area on the opposite side of the road.
We had Art Mears look at it because it was an old log structure.
He did not think that it could be sufficiently engineered in this
location to allow it to be safely located there. So we withdrew
that part of the proposal from the application. But we designated
this space on the SPA plan and on the condominium documents for
future affordable housing.
We retained Mr. Mears to look at the avalanche potential in that
area and to also provide some guidance to Sutherland, Fallin in
terms of design of the structure that could be built there from
scratch. It also gave us the opportunity to do what amounts to a
duplex 2 bedroom unit, 2 bath on the bottom and a studio unit on
the top. You will note that it is basically invisible from ute
Avenue. The roof has been designed to shed snow in the event
avalanche were to reach that far across the street.
The entire site as well as the rear of the Aspen Club are all
located in the blue avalanche zone. There has not been an
avalanche in that location but Mr. Mears felt that it was prudent
that the structure be designed to address the problem in the event
one should ever occur.
The site plan shows the location of the building. parking will be
provided at 1 per bedroom. It is provided in an existing off-
street parking area. We will not need to make additional curb cuts
on the avenue to service these 2 units.
r
Since the density in the RR zone district is 1 unit per 2 acres,
we are proposing, technically, a duplex. We need a variance under
the SPA regulations to put 2 units to be located on the site. We
also are asking a modest variance in the side yard setback of 5
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feet which would eliminate the need for removing existing parking
on site. We are also aSking for a 5 foot variance on the front
yard setback. There is a substantial setback from ute Avenue based
on the improvement district that was done in 1991.
The thing we are really doing here is amending the previously
approved SPA plan to locate this structure on the property and to
vary the 2 setbacks from the minimum lot area requirement for the
duplex affordable housing units. These are deed restricted on the
Housing Office guidelines.
David: Will the people living in this unit be commuting to the
Benedict building?
Vann: It is employees of the 10th Mountain Association. We are
deed restricting the 2 bedroom unit category 3 such that they can
use a roommate situation. It also includes a small area of storage
adjacent to the garage which will enable them to put their
snowmobiles and their maintenance truck out of the elements. They
are currently parked at the parking lot. So this will free up a
couple of parking spaces.
David: I assume these employees are currently finding housing--
....
? : At least 2 of the 3 spaces will be taken by 10th Mountain
employees full time who are now commuting. So they won't commute
other than across the parking lot.
MOTION
Jasmine: I move to approve the SPA amendment to permit the setback
and lot area variances for the two affordable dwelling units. I
further move to recommend approval to Council for the GMQS
Exemption with the conditions recommended in the Planning office
memo dated March 22, 1994.
David seconded the motion.
Vann: Condition #5 I am not sure exactly what you want here.
Chuck Roth, Engineer:
plan".
Maybe that should say "Building permit
Jasmine: I will amend my motion to change the phrasing to include
"Building Permit Plan" instead of "Final development plan".
David accepted this for his second to the motion.
\._-
Bruce: So we are amending this SPA to allow this,
duplex on what would be single family type lot.
in effect,
We are not
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changing zone districts. We are not increasing density throughout
the city? I want to make sure we all understand that that is what
we are doing. We are only amending this SPA.
Vann: It stays RR. This plan merely approves what is there and
also this building that you are currently approving. Anything else
on the site will be subject to your further review approval.
Bruce asked for public comment.
There was no public comment and he closed the public portion of the
hearing.
Everyone then voted in favor of the motion.
HERRON PARK PLACE
Leslie presented proof of public notice. (attached in record) She
read into the record a letter from Ken and Jane owen, 115 Neal Ave.
stating their support of the affordable dwelling unit to the
project. (attached in record)
Leslie then made presentation as attached in record.
"
I would like to add one condition of approval. On page 16--this
is the beginning of my condition for the approval. I say "Prior
to the issuance of any building permit--and then I list A, Band
C and I will add D--"The zoning Officer shall inspect the erosion
control measures to ensure they are in place".
Jasmine: What is the total size of the proposed structure?
Jeffrey Shoaf, applicant: You mean both duplexes?
Jasmine: Yes, when the whole building is completed with the ADU-
-the total square footage.
Shoaf: Living area? I didn't bring my charts. Approximately--
well I have got 2,600 square feet for FAR that I am using plus this
250 square feet of FAR bonus. So I have got above grade square
footage of those 2 figures combined. And then I am doing a whole
basement underneath it.
Jasmine: I am curious as to the size of this structure as compared
to the size of the previous structure on this.
Leslie: You say on the application 8,500 square foot total living
area. But that is not floor area.
\. Bruce: We are going from a 2,400 square foot duplex to what?
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Shoaf: This is the ADU unit--this upper floor right here. The ADU
unit with this little bridge type being the access to it that will
come in this way.
Leslie: The allowable FAR of this property is 5,280. And then you
add your floor area bonus of 250.
Shoaf: The figure I gave you was half of that with half of the FAR
being in this unit, half in this other unit.
Jasmine: So that is approximately 6,000 square feet of structure.
Leslie: 5,630 with the floor area bonus.
Jasmine: So you have a 2,4000 square foot building. And now you
have a 5,600 of site coverage.
Shoaf: Some of that FAR is decks and things. It has a fairly low
profile from Neal Street. That is a function of the terrain
falling away with most of it being below grade.
Bruce asked the applicant if they had any problems with any of the
conditions of approval the staff had outlined.
Shoaf: So far, no, not really. They are fairly reasonable I
believe. I haven't found any major problems.
Bruce then asked for comments from the public.
sunny Vann: I represent
the final application.
for a total structure of
feet?
Billings. I have not had a chance to see
But 5,600 square feet plus the basement
between 8,500 square feet to 9,000 square
'.
Shoaf: Yes, that is approximately it.
Vann: If I am not mistaken you were involved in the letter-
writing campaign with the Billings project and objected stringently
to the bulk of the Billings property for 4,000 square foot. I am
just curious--and the argument here was what we were going to do
to the neighborhood and how it was going to destroy the character
of the neighborhood. I never got to hear an explanation of how you
could reconcile 9,000 square foot structure here to the Billings
4,000 square foot structure. And I am just curious with this
coming up to council what the concern was about the neighborhood
and why does it apply to this particular site located at the end
of the street. I am asking why this is not incompatible with the
neighborhood and you are arguing that 2 doors down the street 4,000
square feet is.
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Shoaf: Well, I think this is compatible to the neighborhood and
I didn't think initially what was. But we did sign off on that as
far as basically approving it. So it is no longer an issue.
There were no further comments and Bruce closed the public portion
of the hearing.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
David: Would the applicant be adverse to modifying the roof design
to prevent snow dumping onto the entry to the ADU?
Shoaf: Actually, yes, the roof does slant onto the bridge. But
the entrance is recessed.
David: But there is nothing to prevent snow avalanching, dumping
and piling in front of that entry preventing access or egress.
Shoaf: It is not that sharp of a roof.
being a problem.
David: So you wouldn't be willing to re-design the roof?
I don't envision that
Shoaf: I like this roof.
Rappaport: The roof has a very shallow pitch and there will be a
diverter over the entry.
David: I would be against approving this as it is currently
designed. I would only be willing to approve this if we included
a condition of approval such that there be a dormer placed over
that entry.
Shoaf: What's the difference between a diverter and a dormer?
David: Substantial. A diverter is only adequate for warm climate
to divert water and moisture. But when it snows substantially and
have avalanches, you can get 2 feet of snow in a night, so very
often the snow will tend to shed off the roof regardless of how
shallow it is. Under the provisions in the code for circulation,
I feel that what you have there right now basically is
unacceptable.
MOTION
,
Jasmine: I am disturbed by the size of the structure. But I think
the ADU is the least part of it. That structure is going to be
that size or 500 feet less without the accessory dwelling unit and
so therefore most of my objection is to the structure.
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I move to approve the conditional use review for the attached
accessory dwelling unit and the stream Margin Review for 113 Neale
Avenue with the conditions as outlined in Planning Office memo
dated March 22, 1994 with an additional condition that the
applicant will consider re-designing the roof to take into account
David's comments about snow shedding.
'.
David: I will second if you will change the word "consider" or
just eliminate the word "consider".
Jasmine: I think that--I don't know enough about the architectural
differences to specify what they should do. I think that if they
will come up with a design that will prevent snow shedding, I am
not the one who wants to say what form it will take. I know what
your concerns are and I share them. I just don't want to dictate
a particular style of problem solving to them.
Sara: When they get their CO, Lesl ie, wouldn't someone take a hard
look at--even at the building permit--wouldn't Bill take a hard
look at how that entrance is designed?
Chuck Roth, city Engineer: I wish they would. But they don't.
We have got the most unbelievable pile of ice at that back door to
the Youth Center. How can that be an exit with that pile of ice
there?
David: It is the same thing at the Elementary School. And it has
a similar slope and basically a serious life/safety concern in a
public building which the codes do not address.
Leslie: What we are looking at here is that we want this unit to
function and stand on it's own. So if this is the only entrance
that somebody has into their unit it has to work. Most of our
ADU's have a separate entrance into the rest of the home and then
they have a separate entrance. And I think we are looking at
making sure that this separate entrance is always accessible and
useable by a tenant.
Sara: Aren't we also looking at a possible code addition because
it seems that the Planning & Zoning Commission has been designing
all the entrances to the ADU's lately. From what Chuck is saying
we need to have some code about entrances.
Leslie: In my pre-application conferences with everybody I say
"These are the issues. You must address these issues".
Tim: I can't really see where the duplex is attached.
driveway comes down and that is the entrance?
The
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Shoaf: It comes in here and this will be parking under here and
the entrance to the one unit is over here.
Tim: Do they have a common wall?
Shoaf: Yes. In the garages.
Sara: Well, I think David has a real concern. And I wish that the
applicant seemed to be more responsive to that.
Tim: I agree.
Shoaf: I think we are going to be mitigating at certainly more
than that roof I am looking at across the street. That is at a
steeper pitch and sheds right on the public sidewalk. That would
be more of a concern to me than a considerably less sloped roof.
David: We are not talking about the building across the street.
Rappaport: We are trying to address the life safety issue as best
as we can and we don't want our tenants to have an unsafe
situation. I do have a problem with the suggestion that we solve
it in a particular architectural way. I think that if the
committee was to advocate that we really do address that issue and
be concerned about as we develop our project, I will be more than
happy to do that. There are number of ways to address that. And
I would hate to tell another architect how to solve his problems.
David: I agree.
Roth: How about this for language. "The applicant shall provide
for the prevention of snow shedding into the ADU entryway".
David: Before I would vote for this I would want to see exactly
what was being proposed. I would be willing to table this and see
how the applicant was to deal with this problem and have them come
back to us.
Jasmine: I withdraw my motion for the time being until I figure
out what language I want to use for this condition.
MOTION
Sara: I move to accept with Chuck's additional language and
condition #7 (e) "The applicant shall provide prevention of snow
shedding into the entrance of the ADU to be reviewed by Leslie and
Chuck Roth".
Jasmine seconded the motion.
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David: My concern about that is many architects in this community
try to use snow clips to prevent sheds and my observation of
buildings around town is that is not a good way to prevent snow
shed. It will prevent it up to a certain height. But snow at
different conditions tends to shear and still dump and shed above
that 2 to 3 inch height.
Sara: I don't like the diverter. They don't work either.
Bruce: The reason we are getting this ADU--so that everybody
understands--is because of Ord #l--the demolition of the duplex,
they have 2 or 3 different options of what they can do. They can
deed restrict 1/2 of the duplex and just in effect rebuild the
duplex. Or they can rebuild the duplex and add the ADU in order
to apply for it. That is the reason we are looking at the ADU.
Sara: Or pay cash in lieu.
Bruce: The concern I have is that on most of these ADU
applications we don't get detailed plans but we usually get some
kind of floor plan so that we can see how the ADU interconnects
with the house so that we are not just getting a bigger house with
an extra bedroom. I am sure that you have got other plans but what
we got in our packet doesn't really give us an indication of how
all that interconnects. We are trying to see that these ADU's get
built and occupied and not just become another bedroom to the big
main house. That is one of the reasons that we like to look at
those interconnections. So I am concerned about that and basically
I just have a void of information.
Leslie: You have everything I received.
Bruce: I am saying it is hard for us to make a decision when we
don't have the plans to show how it all interconnects to the rest
of the house. And as Jasmine pointed out we are going from 2,400
square feet to something between 6,000 and 8,000.
Tim: What is your intent for the ADU?
Shoaf: I don't really know. This unit could be retained by me.
It could be sold. Basically it is for the intent of the code.
What ADUs are supposed to be used for.
Tim: So this is going to be your residence? And the ADU is going
to be attached to your residence?
Shoaf: That is just one possibility. There are no specific plans
right now. That is just flat out where I stand.
'-._ Tim: I am not trying to be critical but I would like to have an
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idea of who, what, when and where is going to live in that and how
effective it is going to be to help us with housing.
Shoaf: Anybody that does live there will be signing a 6 month
lease and they will be an employee of the valley for 9 months of
the year. That is per the code. That is what it says you have to
do and that is what we are going to do.
Bruce: Are you condominiumizing the project?
Shoaf: Yes. As far as the 2 sides are concerned. Yes. The ADU
cannot be condominiumized. There is only 2 units that can be sold.
Either this side is sold with the ADU unit or this side sold with
the ADU unit.
There being no further comments--
Everyone voted in favor of the motion.
HAMRICK
CONDITIONAL USE REVIEW FOR ADU
Bruce opened the public hearing.
""'
Mary Lackner made presentation as attached in record.
Bruce asked if the applicant had a presentation.
Dusty Hamrick: The packet contains all the information. I will
be glad to answer any questions you may have.
Sara: This is going to be a 500 square
some of the space from the old house?
feet more?
foot unit. So it is taking
You are just building 280
Hamrick: Right.
Jasmine: This is a completely different type of accessory dwelling
unit from the one we just saw. This is what we hope that accessory
dwelling units would be like. I wish we would see more like this
application.
Bruce asked for public comments.
Tony Welgos: If I understand it right she can rent out her main
house unrestricted--year round?
Leslie: Anybody can right now.
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Tony: That was my concern. Right across the street Helly is
renting his upstairs and his downstairs. It is turning into a
rental. It is a motel. That is the thing I am seeing. I live
right next to Dusty. I am bringing this up because what is
happening in the neighborhood is a lot of rental. And I can't say
we don't do that. We do it 14 days at Christmas. That is as far
as we can go with that.
I am just concerned that our street is becoming a motel district.
There is a lot of renting going on. I was hoping that the 6 month
restriction was going to be on the main house. I didn't realize
wi th that you can go anywhere you want. And she has to stay in the
accessory dwelling unit.
I am concerned because the street is turning into more rental all
the time. And I don't like all that happening. Dusty does a great
job of controlling her rentals. We don't have any problem with
that. But if this keeps going we are going to have traffic in and
out and taxis pulling up every weekend like they are doing now.
And it is not a residential neighborhood. It is turning into a
strip of short-term rentals.
I don't know what we can do legally to stop all that. I just don't
want to see the quality of that street deteriorate. I would like
to have a little control with what is going on there.
Kathy Welgos: We live right next door to Dusty, 1295 Riverside
Drive. We have lived there for 5 years with our 4 kids. And we
have a great street. It is a real nice local neighborhood. And
it is made us feel really happy living in a residential area where
all the people live in their houses actually live and work in
Aspen. And that is the kind of quality that I want to see stay on
that street.
My main concern is to preserve our neighborhood. Dusty, is your
accessory dwelling unit--is your main intent to live in it and rent
out the main house?
Hamrick: You already know the answer to that question. But I will
gladly tell everyone else. Kathy has already talked to me
regarding the notice everyone has received. And my answer to her
at that time was and is still the same answer. No matter what I
do in approval or non-approval with this request, I will continue
to rent my house out. And probably do it as frequently and
reasonably possible for the next couple of years.
As my statement to this application was made that you have I am
requesting this approval to prepare for my golden years in having
an accessory dwelling unit to enable me to have an income. I, yes,
will be living in that accessory dwelling unit off and on but
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knowingly not for long periods of time. And this request for this
application is for someone to rent that unit in the number of years
down the road.
In getting ready for this I have to start now. And as to when--
it may be as much as 3 years. If I get rich, it may not be at all.
But I started the process last November and this is where I am
today. I would like to also input some information as to a few
things that have come up. Kathy's statement was that all the
people who live on our street are residents and are employees of
Aspen. Five houses on our street are non-owners that are never
there and they rent all the time. I have owned my house for 15
years in May. And three of those houses have not changed. Of the
300 foot radius that I had to notify that includes 19 houses.
Eleven of them rent short term and have since I have in the last
5 years and I have not come on the scene to be the last person to
rent short-term on my street.
with that continuation of that radius outside of the notices I had
to notify there are a total of 24 homes and of those 24 I know of
4 employee units. I also know there is parking on the street. Of
the 19 houses in the 300 foot radius 2 of them are employee houses
and I question the permits on those. And 1 of those is a duplex.
with this information I would question why, at this time, is there
such concern about me coming on line for renting? All of the 15
years there have been no inquiries to my knowledge of anyone who
has made extra money by renting and no inquiries, to my knowledge,
of anybody pursuing an owner who was building on an accessory
dwelling with or without a permit.
My point is the neighborhood has been that direction for so many,
many years now.
Helen Klanderud: I live on Riverside Drive and have since 1971.
I am here not because I object to this application. I have to
agree with Dusty. She is probably one of the few who has come
forward straightforwardly and chosen to go through the process and
therefore submit herself to what can happen here.
I very much have the same concern, though. We are inundated on the
east by these monster houses of the Aspen Club. Now there is a new
employee housing project going in. And it used to be a very quiet
neighborhood street. I agree with Welgos's it has been a place
where most of the people there have been--they are owner-occupied
houses.
I don't know about your statistics as to how accurate those are.
There are covenants. It is a subdivision with covenants. There
\. , is supposed to be a homeowner's association. If anyone has ever
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looked at the covenants first of all, all of those
there are supposed to be natural wood. They are
family dwellings. There is to be none of this.
residences up
to be single
Those covenants have never been enforced. There has never been an
active homeowner's association. I think as time has gone on there
probably never will be because there are these sort of vendings.
And things are happening in the neighborhood and nobody wants to
stand up against their neighbors. I have no disagreement with the
concept of additional dwelling units. But over time if there is
just--to promote one cause and eroding of some other things.
Bruce: The matter of covenants is a matter of private contract
between the residents of the neighborhood. So any enforcement of
covenants or breach of covenants has to come from the homeowners.
That is not in the purview of the P&Z or city Councilor anybody
else within the city. So if there are covenant violations they
have to be dealt with in a different way.
Klanderud: It is our fault if we don't enforce our own covenants.
Sara: My response to the neighbors is if you felt this way you
should form a homeowner's association. It sounds like there has
been a lot things that have been sort of blinked out and grand-
fathered along the way. It sounds like you had things in place and
you have all been very negligent.
David: The rental issue was something that was discussed
extensively during the community Plan. Several hundred members of
the community participated in that. Several different committees
discussed whether or not--not just your neighborhood but other
neighborhood such as the west end--whether the character of the
community had radically changed both due to short-terming and long-
terming of houses and dwelling units. A lot of people shared that
concern. A lot of people felt that their quality of life was
increased due to revenues received from renting of units.
So I think at this point short of someone putting together
something for a ballot the status quo will remain. There is
significant majority of the community who wants to make some kind
of change.
Leslie: We also discussed when we were eliminating the condo-
miniumization regulations which is one place that we were imposing
6 month lease restrictions. To my knowledge the Planning Dept has
never enforced those because we have never gotten a call or
complaint. Hunter Creek, they try to enforce them because it is
their homeowner's association in their covenants.
....
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David: Because we are not addressing the use of the main part of
the house, I do find that use of this portion of the house for
accessory dwelling unit is in keeping with the character of the
neighborhood and the Community Plan.
MOTION
David: I move to approve the conditional use for a 500 square foot
attached accessory dwelling unit for the Hamrich residence at 1315
Riverside Drive with the conditions amended in the Planning Office
memo dated March 22, 1994. (attached in record)
Sara seconded the motion.
Everyone voted in favor of the motion.
Bruce closed the public hearing.
ALCIATORE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT
AMENDMENT
Mary Lackner made presentation as attached in record.
~.......,.
Applicant representative:
unit.
Using model explained plans for ADU
Bruce: So the entry into the unit itself is below grade?
Rep: It is below grade.
below grade.
It will start above grade and go down
David: In recent applications that have come before us for below
grade units one of the serious concerns is living in a hobbit hole.
It wasn't providing an adequate quality of life. If somehow you
were to flip things around and make that a walk-out courtyard, you
could almost have a window wall. That would be a concern of mine
to get as much natural light and if possible to make that lower
level a walkout courtyard for them to have a private outdoor
sitting space.
The other concern I would have is that perhaps a dormer--some other
device other than snow clips to keep snow from shedding into that
stairway.
Sara: I agree with David. It is a very tiny unit and I know 300
is acceptable. But it would certainly expand their living quarters
even in the winter with sunshine.
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MOTION
Bruce: All we are doing is recommending to staff to go ahead and
make that amendment subject to those conditions #5 and #7 and in
their place go to a condition about natural light and air and
condition about snow shedding.
Sara: I so move.
David: I second the motion.
Everyone then voted in favor of the motion.
Meeting was adjourned. Time was 6:10 P.M.
Janice
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