HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19941018
~~
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
OCTOBER 18. 1994
Chairman Bruce Kerr called meeting to order at 4:30 P.M.
Answering roll call were steve Beuttow, Robert Blaich, Tim Mooney,
Sara Garton, Roger Hunt, Jasmine Tygre and Bruce Kerr. Marta
Chaikovska was excused.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Jasmine:
It has to
ative and
I found this book in the Library called The New Urbanism.
do with planned communities. It is interesting, inform-
very easy to read for anyone who might be interested.
Tim asked regarding Ordinance #53.
Leslie: We all struggled together and what we wound up with was
beefing up the purpose section of the Residential Zone District and
then we created a definition of long term residential in the code.
We had many, many meetings with P&Z and Council about that.
Tim: One of the most questionable aspects of this debate is how
it is going to be enforced. It basically isn't being enforced
across the board, but selectively.
Leslie: We have enforced it once on complaints. We have had one
person that we have worked with and it has gone very well.
Bruce: I just want to remind staff that we have never seen the
resolution for David Brown.
STAFF COMMENTS
Leslie: West end traffic study is to be taken off agenda for today.
MOTION
Roger: I move to table action on Independence Place SPA Desig-
nation and Conceptual SPA plan to date certain of February 7, 1995.
Tim seconded the motion.
Jasmine: I don't feel comfortable with doing this until I really
understand what the remifications are.
Bruce: I don't see that we gain nor lose anything by tabling to
this date. If the election goes a certain way, it may go away
altogether.
Sara: I agree with Jasmine. I don't like continuing things.
I don't like vested rights that they keep extending. Things
changed in 2 years. And they are about to change again.
And
have
PZM10.18.94
Jasmine: I am just afraid we are locking ourselves into something.
Maybe we are not. But I don't know that. And until I know that
I don't really want to vote in favor of doing this.
Everyone then voted in favor of the motion except Jasmine and Sara.
Kim: November meeting schedule will be the 1st and the 22nd. The
Overlay meeting will be on the 29th.
Leslie: We are trying to find a Tuesday for a meeting with the
joint P&Zs on RO and AH. We are not real sure on this one.
Kim: I have a site plan that was given to me by Jim Iglehart for
the Nathanson residence on ute Avenue. Jim is the contractor for
this project and he brought to my attention the condition of
approval which requires no disturbance outside of the building
envelope. No construction activity does not work for the reason
that the outside walls of the structure are within inches of the
building envelope.
I can't just release permits with the knowledge that the conditions
of approval would be violated. Those being that he intends to use
a bulldozer outside the building envelope to do backfilling. And
also to construct the sewer line.
Bruce: I am not prepared to just willy-nilly, by looking at some
plan passed around in the comment section of our meeting, to waive
the condition of approval of an 8040 Greenline Review. I think if
he wants to come back and amend--and it is sort of onerous to have
to come back and go through the government process. But if he
wants to come back and amend his 8040 Greenline approval and show
us that this is perfectly alright I would look at it then. But I
am not prepared to just give some reason to say "Yes, go ahead and
do what you want to do".
The rest of the P&Z agreed that they were not willing to waive this
condition that has already been approved on the basis of a simple
blue line plan. Staff is instructed to expedite the applicant onto
the next agenda and they are to supply more information.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There were none.
MINUTES
OCTOBER 4. 1994
Sara: I move to approve minutes of October 4, 1994.
Bob seconded the motion with all in favor.
2
PZM10.18.94
KNFO CONDITIONAL USE REVIEW
SATELLITE DISH
Bruce reopened the public hearing.
Kim: For those of you who were at the site today we saw where
Sunny has proposed to change the rotation of the dishes. One is
in the southwestern corner of the parking lot in a dead corner and
one is indicated to be to the southeast of the parking space
pointing toward Aspen Mountain. And it also will not encroach on
any parking spaces.
One of the neighbors was there and Sunny has talked with other
neighbors and everyone has indicated this is an appropriate
solution.
Sunny: The dish you saw is one we managed to scrape up for demon-
strative purposes only rather than build some kind of mockup. We
will stand by our original proposal to paint it a color that is
acceptable to the commission.
Bruce asked for public comment.
?: We appreciate all your efforts to accommodate our views.
There were no further public comments and Bruce closed the public
portion of the hearing.
MOTION
Robert: I move for approval of the conditional Use for the two
approximate 2.8 meter satellite for KNFO Radio located at 225 North
Mill Street with the conditions recommended and amended in the
Planning Office memo dated October 4, 1994. (attached in record)
That is that the dishes shall be painted to minimize the visual
effect and the color to be worked out with the Planning Office.
Jasmine seconded the motion with all in favor except Roger who
abstained.
CONDOMINIUMIZATION TEXT AMENDMENT
Bruce opened the public portion of the hearing.
Kim: Made presentation as attached in record.
Jasmine: I thought you couldn't condominiumize land.
sunny: There is the new Common Ownership Act that was passed by
3
PZM10.18.94
the legislature a while back to clean up the condominiumization
procedure. It allows you to condominiumize land. You can take a
piece of vacant land and subdivide it but essentially the two
condominiumized interests provided there is a common element. That
is what we did on the Central Bank.
We didn't condominiumize the structures at all. We simply
condominiumized the land underneath the structures such that part
of the building set on one condominium element and the other
building set on the other condominium element and they owned a
piece of land between the two as a limited common interest.
Has the City Attorney reviewed the ability to impose additional
regulations on top of the state statute regarding the
condominiumization of land to impose such requirements that come
out on subdivision like nonconformities, etc.
Kim: We are not imposing additional requirements above and beyond
the process. As far as condominiumization we could say "You have
to do affordable housing". That would be something different than
what the subdivision allows for. I think subdivision is pretty
clear in its attempt to provide logical, reasonable division of
land. And it specifically states "Not to create non-conformities".
Leslie: There are criteria under subdivision that earlier we had
all decided there are certain processes that don't have to follow
all that criteria and it is really simple and easy and so we will
just exempt it from full subdivision process. We are now not
exempting this.
Just by the change of ownership in a duplex home we are putting all
of these cash-in-lieu fees, 6 month deed restriction, housing and
all this and just a change of ownership. And KIOWA--you can't do
that if you are not also doing that to everybody else.
Kim: This still allows for simple condominiumization of air space
and/or typical common ownership of the majority of the portion of
the land area itself to be processed as the Planning Director sign-
off. It gives staff the ability to say "Whoa, this appears to be
subdivision and so therefore let's treat it as such for review
purposes".
MOTION
Roger: I move to recommend to City Council to approve an amendment
to Section 24-7-1007 of the Aspen Municipal Code requiring
condominiumization of land to be a two-step subdivision process as
recommended by the Planning Office.
Jasmine seconded the motion.
4
PZM10.18.94
Kim: We could preface a statement to Council that if we find that
there could potentially a non-conformity being created, and we have
done this recently in a lot split case, the Zoning Board of
Adjustment has the power to act on and grant variances to non-
conformities. So a condition of the subdivision of approval such
as we are talking about the zoning Board of Adjustment could waive
or grant a variance to whatever difficulty might be encountered.
Sara: What is the abuse potential? Why are you so in favor of
this?
Roger: I can see where through the condominium process it is the
capability of coming up with a non-conforming parcel that someone
is on and buildings don't last forever and by creating that non-
conformity you have in effect imbedded in perpetuity their right
to continue that non-conformity. If that is going to be done, it
should be done through the subdivision process is my point.
Bruce: I am going to vote against this primarily because I don't
understand it. It has been stated by all of us that we want to
streamline the code--simplify the code. And I am not sure that I
understand what condominiumization of the land really means. I
don't know that we have a definition in the code for that.
Maybe there is a cleaner way to deal with closing this gap. Maybe
the way to do it is in the subdivision regulations you specify that
a condominiumization of land shall be subject to subdivision regu-
lations rather than sort of in the back door of the condominium-
ization regs where you then throw them back into subdivision regs.
Leslie: Wouldn't that achieve the same thing?
Bruce: Well, it might. It just seems to me we are not simplifying
the code.
Leslie: until we had to deal with Central Bank and Kim had to say
"wait a minute. We are creating an entire new parcel with no
parking and share trash enclosure areas and there is nothing we can
do about it". And they say we are condominiumizing the land. They
were subdividing the land. But when we eliminated the condominium
section there was nothing in the code that say "You cannot
condominiumize land". We didn't have the ability to say "You are
really doing a subdivision. You have to go through the whole
subdivision". There is no flexibility
Under our current condominium regulation there is absolutely no
flexibility on staff's part to impose anything to say we disagree
or agree with your condominiumization. You file a plat. That's it.
5
PZM10.18.94
We had to take condominiumization out of the code. And whether this
condominiumization of land or this loophole that we are calling it
was part of taking that section out of the code or is part of a
whole new set of property rights that people think they have under
KIOWA I am not sure. But it was flagged early on by both Jed and
then John Worcester that this is a loophole in here and let's just
say that condominiumization has to go through subdivision process.
And it is the way we treat all other division of land in the city.
We are not imposing an individual burden on the division of land.
Bruce asked for public comment. There was none and he closed the
public portion of the hearing.
Everyone then voted in favor of the motion except Bruce.
CREEKTREE SUBDIVISION/PUD AMENDMENT
Mary Lackner, Planning: Made presentation as attached in record.
Sunny Vann, Representative for applicant: This is a good example
of when an older project gets caught up in our newer regulations.
This was developed as a PUD. At the time it was developed the
entire site area was used for purposes of calculating allowable
density for the single family and the two duplexes. That is the
regulations that were in place in 1978. And that is the regu-
lations that are in effect today.
The code says if you do a PUD and you give a park or common open
space to someone they don't penalize you from a density perspective
for giving that space. You use the whole site, divide the total
area by the number of dwelling units and come up with an average
lot area.
When this was built there were no FAR regulations in the city. The
plat did contain a notation about the size of the buildings. It
didn't say floor area because there was no definition. But it did
have a limitation.
What we are aSking for is to recommend approval on the amendment
to the PUD itself. And that amendment is to remove this one line.
since there was no FAR limitation when this was built it didn't
matter that these were two separate parcels. Creektree owns this
parcel. Each land owner has an undivided interest in this parking
area. But because of the way our code is set up today this line
means that they can't use this portion of their property for their
FAR for their units.
The units are about 2,300sf at the moment. This amendment would
allow them to go to something like about 2,760. We have said that
even though there might be additional FAR available once we go
6
PZM10.18.94
through this calculation we will limit it to the amount we have
requested. Those additions will occur within the existing
footprint. The majority of the square footage that would be added
to each unit would occur in the existing garage. There is more
than adequate parking on site. One of the unit owners has already
received permission to enclose his garage to have some additional
living space in the building.
The election by any of the other owners to enclose their garage
would have no adverse effect on parking. They would simply give
up a covered space for an exterior space. So all this does is
provide a way to allow them to utilize the allowable FAR that they
would be entitled to if this project were to come through today.
The only distinction is we are putting a limitation on what that
allowable FAR will be. We are saying it is only going to be a
maximum of 500sf and it can only occur within the existing
footprint of the building.
The applicant in question is asking to enclose a deck. He has
already enclosed his garage so he has used 400 and some odd square
feet of his 500 feet. What we are asking for--the deck is
approximately 110sf. The resulting FAR if each unit owner were to
expand given the amount that we are asking for, the total FAR on
this site would .29.
So we are not talking about substantial increases. We are not
talking about monster homes here. We are not talking about cutting
down stuff next to a river. The guy simply wants to enclose his
deck to accommodate the expanding needs of his family.
The issues the last time we talked about this we were talking about
these being single family vs duplexes. We have set down with the
Planning Office. We have come up with a process which we believe
is currently provided for in the code. It doesn't require any
unusual interpretations on behalf of the staff, the Planning Office
or the Planning & zoning commission or the city council.
All we are asking you to do is recommend approval to amend the PUD
to consolidate the two parcels which are presently owned by the
Creektree Condominiums. And also to grant Stream Margin Review for
Mr. Beckwith's request to enclose his deck. The way we set up the
application is that each other owner, should they elect in the
future to take advantage of this FAR, would come in for their own
stream Margin Review and you would make a determination at the time
as to whether there were any adverse impacts associated with what
they wanted to do.
This will
project.
clean up an awkward situation for this particular
It will establish what the allowable FARs are so that
7
PZM10.18.94
each time someone comes in and wishes to remodel there will be some
kind of control and some kind of record as to what is permitted and
what is not on this particular site.
Sara: In the original presentation you were talking about them as
detached single family homes. And now you are going with duplex.
Sunny: The way we got there was on a recommendation from the
Planning Office. That was the way it was suggested. That is the
way we did it. subsequently they decided they didn't want to do
it that way. So now we are treating them as being duplexes. In
reality it is a multi-family project with two detached structures
on it.
If you were to build those two there today it would be four units
clustered in two structures and a multi-family parcel. We would
try to zone it multi-family. The FAR would be 1 to 1. This is .29.
Steve: How many parking places are in that area?
Sunny: There are more than one per bedroom.
Mary: Staff has asked that the Fisherman's Easement that currently
exists be redefined and use language that is more up to date with
what we are using now to allow for fisherman's access within 5 feet
of the medium high water line. They have not heard back from the
applicant on this.
Sunny: I guess I missed that one. The only place that we could
get it since the only land we own is right here--this little piece
right here.
Mary: seeing that we are doing the whole subdivision as a PUD
amendment we are going to have to look at where it crosses all
lots.
Sunny: You can't ask me to go tell this guy to renegotiate his
fishing easement.
Mary: It is an amendment of the whole subdivision--
Sunny: This is the only thing I am amending. I am not amending
anybody else's property lines or anything else. Don't throw up
another roadblock here for me. You got a Fisherman's Easement that
was granted over the terms and requirements in effect at the time
this was subdivided. If you don't like the language where it
crosses our property, I think I could probably get you a new
Fisherman's Easement. But you can't tell me that I have got to go
negotiate for the City a revised Fisherman's Easement with the
owner of Lot #1.
8
PZM10.18.94
Mary: I would have to disagree. We are looking at a substantial
amendment to the entire subdivision. And I think that needs to be
rectified throughout the subdivision.
Sunny: I can't do it.
Leslie:
amended.
the plat.
The plat is being amended and the PUD agreement is to be
And at that point all parties are going to have to sign
Sunny: We will have multiple signatures on the plat because we
have multiple owners.
Leslie: And it could be reflected on the plat so the people who
know--
Sunny: But to make this a condition of approval is arm twisting
and it is unrealistic. I am in here to simplify fix a problem on
my own parcel. Just because you have an opportunity and have me
in here--I think it is unconscionable to say "OK, we would also
like to get a better deal than we cut 5 years ago over here on
another part of the PUD. And we are going to hold your approval
hostage till you go and get it!"
Sara: So you are saying that the Board of the Eagle's Club and the
private homeowner also has to sign off on this plat? Or will his
lender have to sign off?
Leslie: No. It is the other 2 property owners that are going to
sign off acknowledging that they also realize that they are gaining
additional FAR.
Sunny: When this was originally done there was only one or two
owners. So they signed the plat. The new plat--this has been
conveyed out and this has been conveyed out. Arguably there are
4 ownerships here as well. So I suspect what will have to happen
is that the revised plat would be signed by these owners.
Mary: You are re-evaluating the subdivision in terms of lot area.
So the applicant and the other parcels will be able to increase
their floor area with development rights. Staff at this time
thinks it is fair to go back and clean it up and get it the way we
want it today.
Bruce: That is not a condition of approval.
Mary: But it was in the Comments section.
Sunny: This has never come up. This is the first--
9
PZM10.18.94
Sara: Staff, legally can we do this? Can we make this a condition
of approval?
Leslie: We have the Fisherman's Easements. It is just a matter
of updating them.
Sunny: Your current code says you can exact Fisherman's Easements
in the context of subdivision. Whether or not you can go back and
require someone as a condition of amending the plat, to renegotiate
the easement is another question.
I am not adverse to trying to solve the City's problem. I am upset
about a continuing leverage, because I am in the process of trying
to enclose a deck, to go back and fix everything that you don't
like about this plat. That is what has me upset.
Tim: The essence of the Fisherman's Easement is that the majority
of the open space is a park. So there is plenty of fishing there.
Jasmine: My problem with the PUD amendment has to do with the
decks themselves which I know seems like a really minor point. I
don't disapprove with the methods of calculation. But one of the
reasons that we exempt decks is because decks are an architectural
feature that tends to break up the massing of the building. Now
if you look at your plans here and looking at the buildings
themselves, the decks themselves are very small but what you have
done is taken the building that has interesting triangulation and
turned it into a great big box. And I think this is exactly what
we don't want to see happen.
Sunny: We have enclosed one deck. And everybody is going to come
in on stream Margin Review and say "Can I enclose my deck?"
Jasmine: My feeling is I don't want to encourage them to do that.
And I don't really like the enclosing of decks to begin with
because it is creating the kind of architecture that everybody in
town is so up-in-arms about--these gigantic boxes. Admi ttedly
these are not very large. The specific addition that you are
talking about--it seems really petty--why am I making all this big
a thing when you are just putting in a small enclosure of a deck?
It just doesn't seem like that much. But what you are doing is
boxing in the building. And this is what I object to.
Sunny: You shouldn't penalize a land owner who has available FAR
who ~s caught in the bind of our current regulations. Either he
has allowable FAR or he doesn't. Our code doesn't force people to
add decks and it doesn't force them to build boxes. That is a
choice people make.
10
PZM10.18.94
Jasmine: What I am saying what was approved at the PUD was based
on certain type of architecture.
Sunny: We don't know that for a fact. In fact the architecture
changed. In fact I know it is not true because the buildings that
were shown on the plat were different than the buildings that were
built. In fact there is correspondence in the file where after the
project was approved the architect was changed, they reoriented the
building and a complete new design came in. And it did not come
back and go through any kind of architectural review.
Jasmine: What I am saying is that you are the one who is asking
for a change in the PUD. And what I am saying is that the change
that you are proposing is contrary to what people in the community
have expressed as their displeasure with box-type architecture.
Sunny: My point is if I say we were going to enclose the garage,
is the amendment acceptable because I will enclose the garage but
it is not acceptable because I will enclose the deck. It is an
amendment. And an amendment on it's face is simply to remove an
existing line between 2 parcels which are owned by the same
individuals. That is all the amendment is. Now as part of that
if the result of that amendment will allow us to build 500sf in my
case 100sf because the garage has already been enclosed. And I
could come in and ask to have a third story on it under Stream
Margin and you would be subject to review and approval.
What I have asked is to enclose one deck.
Jasmine: Which is on the river. My concern with this project is
that I don't want to be on record as allowing a boxification of
something on the river. I believe that that is one of the things
that Stream Margin Review takes into account.
Sunny: This proposed enclosure complies with every single
requirement that you have under Stream Margin Regulations. Taste.
and box is not one of them. It is in the existing footprint. In
fact it is eligible, we believe, for administrative approval. The
Planning Office said the accumulative effect if all the decks were
included would not meet the requirements for administrative review.
But I am not looking for all the decks. I am looking for one deck.
Mary: And the Planning Office position is if they are going to get
a PUD amendment to expand their floor area, you will want to know
where that floor area is going and then go ahead and approve or
disapprove that Stream Margin Review.
Sunny: I am not getting a PUD amendment to expand the floor area.
I am getting a PUD amendment to change the lot line on my property.
The end result, which we have disclosed to you, is an increase in
11
PZMI0.18.94
FAR for each homeowner of 500sf because one owner has a specific
proposal for it and we applied for stream Margin Review. That
specific proposal is to add 110sf on his deck because his garage
is already enclosed. No one else has asked for any other approvals
associated with this application. If you look at the stream Margin
Review criteria, the enclosure of that deck clearly complies.
Sara: The staff recommendation was that you give that possibility
to everyone.
Sunny: We are g~v~ng that possibility to everyone. They may well
come ~n. And I don't think that it is a problem with someone who
has 2,300sf down here at a .22 FAR to come in a say "I would like
to go to .29".
We have got one other identical to this one on the river side. The
archi tecture is unobtrusive. It doesn't tear down trees. It
doesn't go all the way to the ground. It doesn't have an adverse
effect on the river from the Stream Margin perspective. What we
are socially engineering here is that "I like decks. I want to
keep it that way". And I don't think that is appropriate.
Mary: On that approved plat each duplex structure has specific
square footage as to what it's size is. That is also what is being
amended. You are doing an amendment so those can increase.
Sunny: By 500sf. per unit. It is very frustrating that it has
gotten to the point where you can't enclose your deck. If this was
in the river and trashing the river--fine, I can understand that.
Doubling the size of the units. I would understand that.
It has the consent of the other members of the condominiumization
and the consent of the other members of the PUD. The FAR is that
which would be permitted today under our PUD regulations. The only
problem is we can't achieve what we are entitled to as long as that
one line is there--that arbitrary line between the 2 parcels which
we own. And we inherited that from the prior City Attorney who
said "You can't count all of this for your FAR because it is 2
separate parcels". That was his opinion. And we said "OK go ahead
and remove the line. We don't care. Go ahead and amend your
application to remove it".
We have been through two different processes trying to remove the
line. And I am still here trying to amend it and we are saying "We
still got a recommendation of approval". Nobody is say~ng we
shouldn't be approved at the staff level but now you are saying
"And by the way we want you to fix the Fisherman's Easement across
the creek".
Sara: But by amending the PUD, Sunny, you have increased the value
12
PZM10.18.94
of each of those units so much--
Sunny: What has that got to do with anything? What has the value
got to do with anything?
Sara:
bigger.
bigger.
Well, because on the original PUD they couldn't go any
Now by removing that line we are allowing them all to go
Sunny: If it makes sense and it complies with the regulations,
who cares? I have already limited it to 500sf. I have already
said whatever it works out to be--that is all it is going to be is
the 500.
Leslie: I disagree with Sunny slightly in that this is a substan-
tial amendment to the PUD. And as we have done in the past with
PUDs we have tried to look at the overall effect of what the
amendment is going to do to the entire project.
sunny: It is hard for me to see where, other than a personal
preference as to whether buildings are boxy or decks should be
enclosed, our code is designed to preclude someone from doing this.
It does not seem to me to be something of a magnitude or scope that
warrants this level of brain damage.
We can approve affordable housing next to the highway that looks
like it came out of Iowa and beat some poor slob up over enclosing
his deck. There has got to be some sense of proportion here and
some sense of what we are doing with our regulations.
MOTION
Tim: I move to grant approval for the Creektree Subdivision PUD
amendment to merge Lot #2 and #4. And to increase the floor area
attributable to each lot that is in the subdivision. I further
move to approve the Stream Margin Review for the duplex structures
to expand within the existing footprint total of 2,000 square feet
as illustrated in the site plan dated July 13, 1994 with the
conditions noted in the Planning Office memorandum dated October
18, 1994. (attached in record)
Bob seconded the motion.
Everyone voted in favor of the motion except Jasmine and Steven.
Meeting was adjourned. Time was 6:25 P.M.
/j
\
Janice
13