HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19941101
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 1, 1994
Chairman Bruce Kerr called meeting to order at 4:30 P.M.
Answering roll call were Sara Garton, Roger Hunt, Jasmine Tygre and
Bruce Kerr. Tim Mooney and Steven Beuttow arrived shortly after
roll call. Robert Blaich and Marta Chaikovska were excused.
Side one completely blank.
624 E. HOPKINS GMOS ALLOTMENT
AND SPECIAL REVIEW
Jasmine: I think this is a good project. And I think that because
of the project I would be more inclined to favor a cash-in-lieu
recommendation than I would for almost any other project especially
when it is larger. I have philosophical problems with putting the
burden of mitigation on the City by making the City/County Housing
Authority be the one that has to go out and look for the property.
You know how difficult it is. You know how expensive it is.
When you pay cash-in-lieu you are not really not paying your fair
share of the mitigation. That is not only in terms of money but
in terms of what it does to the community. Where do you find the
sites? Who has to put up with going to public hearings and having
neighbors complain? All of those things factor into it. For that
reason I would not want to recommend cash-in-lieu even for a
project like this which would be much more qualified than most.
I would certainly think that something may happen between now and
the time that the project goes forward significantly. You may in
fact find some kind of situation which would make it possible for
you to acquire the housing. And I would certainly encourage you
to pursue that if you can.
Poss: We would accept that just to be able to get with them and
deal with them because they own all the land.
MOTION
Roger: I move to recommend to City Council to accept the housing
mitigation package which addresses the Housing Office's concerns
that the minimum threshold employee generation is 7.09 persons and
that the category level be a mix of category II and category III
employees.
Also--but not part of the motion--please convey the attitudes of
the Commission to the Council with respect to this subject.
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Kim: Can we have a hand-raise since I am going to try to put
numbers to it. I have in favor of all cash based on size of the
project. Or in favor of acquisition of units and cash or a mix of
units and cash-in-lieu or just acquisition of units.
Jasmine:
that it
housing.
I think a mixture would be appropriate. I don't think
would be appropriate to make them provide all off-site
Roger: And I am almost there. But I would like to start out with
a mix.
Steven: Me too.
RESTATING OF MOTION
Roger: I move to recommend City Council to accept the Housing
Mitigation package which addresses the Housing Office's concerns
that the minimum threshold employee generation 7.09 persons and
the category level be a mix of category II and III employees.
Jasmine seconded the motion.
Tim: I would make a point with staff that maybe the City can
encourage or figure out some way to offer private home owners, just
like the people who came in for this ADD that we just approved to
take some kind of deed restriction in a situation like this. This
just goes into the rental pool.
We, in effect, just offered these people the ability to build an
apartment in their basement. And maybe there is some kind of an
incentive where if people want to do that and they want to deed
restrict it so that it could be allocated to a project like this,
there is either some kind of tax incentive--some kind of buy-down
incentive so that the home owner who is going to create an ADD can
take cash from this applicant or another applicant and then for
that cash deed restrict this, then we have it in our housing pool.
Then we have control of it and then we can really determine who is
living in it and who is using it.
I don't know how we do that. Maybe they get some kind of property
tax break. Maybe they get some kind of substantial rebate from the
City and the cash which then allows them to take the restriction
on the property.
What I am saying is when ADD applicants are being pre-apped, there
is some box that can be checked. Will they consider being part of
these efforts? And then we put them together. We are processing
these applications. We might know how to marry these kind of
circumstances and really make it an incentive-based program.
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Jasmine:
I agree.
Sara: It could bring more units into what exists. About 60 now?
The down side of it is that an owner could consider his property
is devalued because he has a restriction on the title of his
property.
Tim: That is why he was paid for it. He could be rewarded through
some kind of program through the City.
Jasmine: That could be very helpful too for some of the long-term
residents who would like to have that kind of income. And might
enable some people to stay especially if they have some kind of tax
break.
Bruce: Let's take Tim's suggestion as a recommendation to staff
and put that in with whatever else you are doing on ADDs and it may
be appropriate to have a work session on this whole ADD question
and how it is going to relate to housing mitigation.
Everyone then voted in favor of the motion.
MOTION
Roger: I move to accept the Planning Office recommended score of
27 points for the 624 East Hopkins Commercial Growth Management
project and to accept the staff comments as findings finding that
thresholds have been met for growth management allocations.
Jasmine seconded the motion.
Sara: I would like to compliment you on your design.
a bonus on the design.
I give you
Roger: It is a very sensitive design that you came up with.
Jasmine: I agree.
Poss: HPC had a lot to do with it.
quiet client.
They were what I call the
Bruce: For what it is worth, Bill;
voted in favor of the last motion,
demonstrate that I would have gone
employee generation and category. I
with, based on your representation,
formula than just a flat average.
I would have, even though I
I could have voted "no" to
for less restrictive both
wouldn't have had a problem
coming up with some other
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Bruce opened the public hearing and asked for public comment.
There were no comments and he closed the public portion of the
hearing.
Everyone then voted in favor of the motion.
ASPEN YOUTH CENTER SPA AMENDMENT
Jasmine: This hearing is continued from September 25 and I re-
open the hearing.
Leslie made presentation as attached in record.
Perry Harvey, representative for Youth Center: Introduced other
people from the Youth Center Board--Erik Bredlinger, Director of
Youth Center, Rick Head, Sue Smedstead, Marsha Bredlinger, Janeane
who is running the kitchen.
The two issues that you brought up before that caused us to be
tabled. The first was that the potential use of the Youth Center
for commercial and for profit events which are unrelated to the
Youth Center. And whether they could rent the facility cheaply and
throw want adds in the paper and do a big sale and leave town.
What the Board has completely agreed to is that anything that
occurs down there that is not classes with CMC and open to the
public would have to be a sponsored event designed to raise funds
for the Youth Center. And that restriction would be in the lease
with the City.
Roger: Clarifying #1 condition: It says "All activity shall be
of a public nature or sponsored by the Youth Center to raise funds
for the Center". Does this also apply to public nature?
Leslie: No. Perry had a good example the last time with a drug
rehabilitation center in Utah. That is a for-profit center. But
they do a lot of work with the Aspen Community. They want to come
and hold a workshop all day. They will probably charge for their
workshop so it would be of a public nature" but it would be
sponsored by the Youth Center as part of their work within the
community youth.
You are either of a public nature or you are sponsored by the Youth
Center.
Jasmine: Are you using public incentive non profit? I am confused
about that also.
Perry: We had talked about only having non-profits in there. We
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discussed how difficult it was to see their charters and determine
whether they were really non-profit. What the Board really would
intend is of a public nature. I don't know if CMC is a non-profit
or not. But if they want to run a sewing class in there--something
that is open to the public that is the kind of thing we are driving
at--not non-profit which can be literally interpreted--you have got
to have your IRS.
Jasmine: I think that the word "public" doesn't seem to explain
that. Of course we can assume that all of these representations
by the applicant becomes part of the record so that we can
understand what public means.
Roger: Tying it into raising funds for the Center seemed a bit
restrictive to me.
Perry: The intention was two levels of events going on. One open
to the public and secondly events that were sponsored by the Youth
Center. A drug rehab program from a for-profit group that came to
town to town to counsel Aspen area youth who had been to the Center
and who might be going with their parents would not necessarily be
open to the public. But it would be a sponsored event.
Roger: Shall we just strike "to raise funds for the Center"?
Tim: No. I think that loses the intent of if it as an activity
in my mind that is operated or managed by for-profit organization.
Part or even most of the profit I think should go to the Youth
Center. You have this building that you can use to put funds back
into the Center. And so to have a for-profit organization come
with any worth-saving mission and not have the Youth Center get
part of the profit because of a contractual and because of because
of an agreement with the City, I don't think is the way the
building should be used. Then it is just a commercial entity for
anybody who needs to rent space.
Perry: In reality what we are looking at is it is a tier arrange-
ment where the first thing is we organize the Youth Programs that
are going to go on for the winter season. Those are put into time
slots which takes up X. Beyond that there is availability of the
facility when it is not being used. And that is where we would go
to CMC and others and co-ordinate with them when we can slot in
classes that do not conflict with the Youth Programs.
The third tier is going to be if we can do a fund raiser or someone
wants to use it and it is an event that we feel is a contributor
for the Youth Center, then we will plug them in. That is the way
it is going to work.
So this language is OK with us.
I understand what Tim is saying.
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Roger:
I still need clarification.
Jasmine: I think we agree with what you are saying but I don't
think this says that.
Roger: OK--"All activity shall be of a public nature or sponsored
by the Youth Center in order to generate income or raise funds to
cover expenses II .
Perry: Why don't we say "All activities shall either be of a
public nature or sponsored by the Youth Center with the intent to
generate funds for the Center. No for-profit or commercial event
use shall be allowed other than uses sponsored by the Aspen Youth
Center" .
Tim: This is a tremendous opportunity for you to leverage
everybody who comes to you that says they want to use your space.
And you say "If we think you have a good enough organization that
we will co-sponsor this with you for 50~ of the profit, you can use
our space".
And the more restrictive the language that says that it gives you
more power to extract more money from people who want to use your
space. You can say "This is not a commercial zone. This is not
a commercial building. We can't rent it to you. We can't lease
it to you. But we can join with you in the production of whatever
you are going to do if we think it fits the community needs. And
therefore we get half the profit".
To me a public nature means
to anybody. It is public.
there, any person--
that it is not going to be restricted
If there is an activity going on in
Perry: The only restriction is the number of people you can get
in there.
Tim: Exactly. So I like the public nature statement sponsored by
the Youth Center to raise funds for the Center. If you want to
reword it to get Roger's language--I think it even makes it more
specific to make sure that the general public knows that we are not
just rolling over on our zoning and allowing some special use to
save this organization and building. That we are actually trying
to design a program that will work for the community and the organ-
ization.
Perry: What I said was "Either of a public nature or sponsored by
the Youth Center to generate funds for the Center".
Everyone agreed with this language.
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Sara: I would like
uses of the Center
Attorney's office".
clarification on Condition #4. "Any leases or
by other users shall be reviewed by the City
Does that mean every single contract?
Leslie: No. I guess what I meant was that this would give the
City Attorney's office the ability to say "You are not within the
purview of your lease with us".
Sara: OK.
I don't think John wants to look at every contract.
Leslie: I didn't mean that at all. I just meant that we have that
check in there that if the City gets a complaint from a restaurant
or from the rug company that they are running trunk sales down
there the City is going to say "This is out of the purview of your
lease" .
Perry: Then say "The City Attorney's office may have the right to
review leases or uses of the Center".
Tim: And then we get to be your ally in this. We get to defend
your ability to make contracts with people who are going to allow
you to share in their profits for the use of your space.
Perry: Regarding the kitchen and the diner. I think Leslie's
Condition #3--works fine for us. I have one clarification. What
we are doing here is twofold. From May to September this is going
to be an accessory use to the Center and to the Rio Grande Park.
That is what we are asking for and is being recommended. So in the
4th line down it talks about the lease. "It will be structured
pursuant to the lease used by the City at Iselin Park" which is
fine. I would like to see "And will be used as an accessory use
to the Rio Grande Park only from May through September".
I have included a letter from Tom Farrell the Superintendent of
schools and I have included the proposed curriculum from Janeane
in terms of what they want to offer for a class. And to have
someone actually come in for lunch that they could actually
practice on is important for them. We are really excited about
this and about the activity level that will be generated by having
the restaurant down there--the diner going.
We are sitting here saying that the Youth Center isn't used enough
and the facility sits that and can be available to other groups.
And on the other hand what we are really trying to do is create
such an activity Center down there that the youth is using it all
up. We would like to have you recognize that the restaurant and
the diner is an accessory use to the Center. And use it for the
Park from May to September when there is activity down there.
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Sara: What you are saying is you want that food service open from
September to May to the public as well.
Perry: Yes. And that was in our original application.
Leslie: I say May to September in the memo. Now what you are
saying is that it will be open to the public on a year round basis.
Roger: Let's qualify that because
to the public on a year round
educational--
it sounds like you want it open
basis if it is used as an
Perry: Yes. And we have agreed to the restrictions about
advertising and those kinds of things.
Roger: But with that tied into it if it is for public usage other
times of the year it has to be tied into and educational program.
OK. I can deal with that if it is an educational program. I can't
deal with it just saying it is open to the public year round. Then
that gets out of hand. I don't mind if it is an educational
program year round.
Tim: Then it is my opinion that the concessionaire who is doing
it for profit should be under the auspices of #1 and you should be
able to share in the profit.
Perry: We do.
Tim: I don't know what this City/Iselin Park lease means. To me
that is another big hole in the contract. I don't know what
restrictions are put on the operator at Iselin Park because of that
lease. But I think that #1 statement if we can make that strong
enough--if we can make a water-tight umbrella over this whole thing
that whoever operates any kind of a commercial activity down there
is in partnership with the Youth Center and that basically the
profits that are being generated--and maybe specify what percent
of profit so that we can help you guys.
Perry: Our agreement calls for a profit sharing in addition to
rent. What you are saying is exactly what we are doing. So if we
can put that kind of language in there, that is great.
What I was trying to get at was I had put in here that the lease
will be substantially in the form used at Iselin Park and will be
reviewed and approved by the City Attorney.
Roger: I look at #1 as basically the use of spaces other than the
restaurant activity. Maybe that should be prefaced in #1. Then
we have got to hammer out #3 which is the use of the kitchen and
dining facilities. They are separate in nature. I don't have a
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problem with public use year round insofar as accessory to an
educational program.
Leslie:
accessory
that?
May through September the
to an educational program.
way it operates was not
Do you have a problem with
Sara: I think the City and we as a Planning Commission have a
respnsibility to protect the Jerome, Clark's Market and all the
other dining and food facilities around that area. And not be
giving you a big break because you are operating under a very
favorable lease compared to those other people.
Jasmine: I don't think anybody on the Commission has a problem
with the use May through September to be considered as an accessory
to the park. What we are trying to figure out is whether the
kitchen is an accessory use to the Youth Center the rest of the
time and does it need to be tied into an educational program.
Everyone agreed it does need to be tied into an educational
program.
Jasmine: We don't have a problem with general public use May
through September. What we would like to find is appropriate
language to tie any restaurant use from September through May to
an educational program.
Perry: I would recommend--"The kitchen will serve as an accessory
use to the Youth Center and as a concessioaire to the Rio Grande
Park from May to September".
In the next sentence- -The lease to the concessionaire shall be
structured pursuant to the lease used by the City at Iselin Park
and reviewed by the City Attorney.
A term that we use with that diner is a "learning lab". That is
the kind of thing that we are driving at and that you are driving
at which is the educational nature from the end of September to the
beginning of May.
Jasmine: Then it will read "The kitchen will serve as an accessory
to the Youth Center and as a concessionaire to the Rio Grande Park
from May through September. The lease for the concessionaire shall
be structured pursuant to the lease used by the City at Iselin Park
and will be reviewed by the Aspen City Attorney".
Then from October through April the kitchen will function as a
learning lab, will pay rent to the Aspen Youth Center, etc.
Perry: Absolutely.
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Jasmine: From October through April the kitchen will function as
a learning lab.
Roger: I suggest we get this in resolution form.
problem with the wordage--
I still have a
Perry: You can say that the kitchen will serve as an accessory use
to the Youth Center. From May 1 through September 30 the kitchen
and food service area shall function as an accessory use to the Rio
Grande Park.
Sara: I want that year round basis. I want that to happen all
year round, not just from October till April.
Perry: Maybe we don't need "Accessory use to the park" in there
if we are talking about the diner as an accessory use to the Youth
Center.
Leslie: Then are we getting hung up on May through September and
September to May?
Marsha Bredlinger: In the school district we call these kinds of
courses vocational courses because they are hands on. They are to
teach the child a skill and the child can graduate with that kind
of an ability. We have found that in our high school right now the
largest percentage of employment by any of our students is the food
service industry in our community.
By using this as a vocational lab year round means that even though
the child is not in the program while the school year is running,
they are still in the program because they are using their skills
as an employed person in our community and getting the experience.
And we are totally prepared to give credit for this especially
because a lot of the latino population at the high school are
learning their english through their jobs. And that is helping us
a great deal in our school system.
Leslie:
September
Center as
So what we should do for #3 is eliminate
stuff--talk about it as an accessory use to
a vocational plus educational program.
this May
the Youth
I will come back to you with a resolution.
Jasmine: Perry, are there any more things in here that you wanted
to have clarified?
Perry: No. Sara brought up item #4 because I was a little
confused about that. But the rest of this is fine.
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Leslie: And we are changing the language to the City Attorney's
Office--they have the right to review.
Perry: Exactly. That is perfect.
Leslie: And then I would just add the condition #7. "All material
representations--
Perry: Aw come on! Now wait a minute!
Roger: And maybe for an annual review for the first year round
operation or something like that as well.
Perry: Maybe you want to sayan annual review--not just the first
year. So that if there are complaints and things are getting out
of hand then--
MOTION
Roger: I move to have the Planning Office write a resolution
basically approving the amendment of the Youth Center for the final
SPA approval along the guidelines of what we have talked about
here. And including a specimen annual review that we have looked
at to see and fine-tune if necessary.
Sara seconded the motion.
Jasmine asked for public comment.
Erik Bredlinger, director of Youth Center: This would really bring
a lot more people into the Youth Center including families. And
it will really help us with our program.
There were no further public comments and Jasmine closed the public
hearing.
Everyone voted in favor of the motion.
Regular meeting was adjourned. Time
,
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I.
Janice
Commission continued with a presentatlon by Leslie on the mith
Building.
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