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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19941101 ~~eJ RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION NOVEMBER 1, 1994 Chairman Bruce Kerr called meeting to order at 4:30 P.M. Answering roll call were Sara Garton, Roger Hunt, Jasmine Tygre and Bruce Kerr. Tim Mooney and Steven Beuttow arrived shortly after roll call. Robert Blaich and Marta Chaikovska were excused. Side one completely blank. 624 E. HOPKINS GMOS ALLOTMENT AND SPECIAL REVIEW Jasmine: I think this is a good project. And I think that because of the project I would be more inclined to favor a cash-in-lieu recommendation than I would for almost any other project especially when it is larger. I have philosophical problems with putting the burden of mitigation on the City by making the City/County Housing Authority be the one that has to go out and look for the property. You know how difficult it is. You know how expensive it is. When you pay cash-in-lieu you are not really not paying your fair share of the mitigation. That is not only in terms of money but in terms of what it does to the community. Where do you find the sites? Who has to put up with going to public hearings and having neighbors complain? All of those things factor into it. For that reason I would not want to recommend cash-in-lieu even for a project like this which would be much more qualified than most. I would certainly think that something may happen between now and the time that the project goes forward significantly. You may in fact find some kind of situation which would make it possible for you to acquire the housing. And I would certainly encourage you to pursue that if you can. Poss: We would accept that just to be able to get with them and deal with them because they own all the land. MOTION Roger: I move to recommend to City Council to accept the housing mitigation package which addresses the Housing Office's concerns that the minimum threshold employee generation is 7.09 persons and that the category level be a mix of category II and category III employees. Also--but not part of the motion--please convey the attitudes of the Commission to the Council with respect to this subject. PZMll.l.94 Kim: Can we have a hand-raise since I am going to try to put numbers to it. I have in favor of all cash based on size of the project. Or in favor of acquisition of units and cash or a mix of units and cash-in-lieu or just acquisition of units. Jasmine: that it housing. I think a mixture would be appropriate. I don't think would be appropriate to make them provide all off-site Roger: And I am almost there. But I would like to start out with a mix. Steven: Me too. RESTATING OF MOTION Roger: I move to recommend City Council to accept the Housing Mitigation package which addresses the Housing Office's concerns that the minimum threshold employee generation 7.09 persons and the category level be a mix of category II and III employees. Jasmine seconded the motion. Tim: I would make a point with staff that maybe the City can encourage or figure out some way to offer private home owners, just like the people who came in for this ADD that we just approved to take some kind of deed restriction in a situation like this. This just goes into the rental pool. We, in effect, just offered these people the ability to build an apartment in their basement. And maybe there is some kind of an incentive where if people want to do that and they want to deed restrict it so that it could be allocated to a project like this, there is either some kind of tax incentive--some kind of buy-down incentive so that the home owner who is going to create an ADD can take cash from this applicant or another applicant and then for that cash deed restrict this, then we have it in our housing pool. Then we have control of it and then we can really determine who is living in it and who is using it. I don't know how we do that. Maybe they get some kind of property tax break. Maybe they get some kind of substantial rebate from the City and the cash which then allows them to take the restriction on the property. What I am saying is when ADD applicants are being pre-apped, there is some box that can be checked. Will they consider being part of these efforts? And then we put them together. We are processing these applications. We might know how to marry these kind of circumstances and really make it an incentive-based program. 2 PZMll.l.94 Jasmine: I agree. Sara: It could bring more units into what exists. About 60 now? The down side of it is that an owner could consider his property is devalued because he has a restriction on the title of his property. Tim: That is why he was paid for it. He could be rewarded through some kind of program through the City. Jasmine: That could be very helpful too for some of the long-term residents who would like to have that kind of income. And might enable some people to stay especially if they have some kind of tax break. Bruce: Let's take Tim's suggestion as a recommendation to staff and put that in with whatever else you are doing on ADDs and it may be appropriate to have a work session on this whole ADD question and how it is going to relate to housing mitigation. Everyone then voted in favor of the motion. MOTION Roger: I move to accept the Planning Office recommended score of 27 points for the 624 East Hopkins Commercial Growth Management project and to accept the staff comments as findings finding that thresholds have been met for growth management allocations. Jasmine seconded the motion. Sara: I would like to compliment you on your design. a bonus on the design. I give you Roger: It is a very sensitive design that you came up with. Jasmine: I agree. Poss: HPC had a lot to do with it. quiet client. They were what I call the Bruce: For what it is worth, Bill; voted in favor of the last motion, demonstrate that I would have gone employee generation and category. I with, based on your representation, formula than just a flat average. I would have, even though I I could have voted "no" to for less restrictive both wouldn't have had a problem coming up with some other 3 PZM11.1.94 Bruce opened the public hearing and asked for public comment. There were no comments and he closed the public portion of the hearing. Everyone then voted in favor of the motion. ASPEN YOUTH CENTER SPA AMENDMENT Jasmine: This hearing is continued from September 25 and I re- open the hearing. Leslie made presentation as attached in record. Perry Harvey, representative for Youth Center: Introduced other people from the Youth Center Board--Erik Bredlinger, Director of Youth Center, Rick Head, Sue Smedstead, Marsha Bredlinger, Janeane who is running the kitchen. The two issues that you brought up before that caused us to be tabled. The first was that the potential use of the Youth Center for commercial and for profit events which are unrelated to the Youth Center. And whether they could rent the facility cheaply and throw want adds in the paper and do a big sale and leave town. What the Board has completely agreed to is that anything that occurs down there that is not classes with CMC and open to the public would have to be a sponsored event designed to raise funds for the Youth Center. And that restriction would be in the lease with the City. Roger: Clarifying #1 condition: It says "All activity shall be of a public nature or sponsored by the Youth Center to raise funds for the Center". Does this also apply to public nature? Leslie: No. Perry had a good example the last time with a drug rehabilitation center in Utah. That is a for-profit center. But they do a lot of work with the Aspen Community. They want to come and hold a workshop all day. They will probably charge for their workshop so it would be of a public nature" but it would be sponsored by the Youth Center as part of their work within the community youth. You are either of a public nature or you are sponsored by the Youth Center. Jasmine: Are you using public incentive non profit? I am confused about that also. Perry: We had talked about only having non-profits in there. We 4 PZM11.1.94 discussed how difficult it was to see their charters and determine whether they were really non-profit. What the Board really would intend is of a public nature. I don't know if CMC is a non-profit or not. But if they want to run a sewing class in there--something that is open to the public that is the kind of thing we are driving at--not non-profit which can be literally interpreted--you have got to have your IRS. Jasmine: I think that the word "public" doesn't seem to explain that. Of course we can assume that all of these representations by the applicant becomes part of the record so that we can understand what public means. Roger: Tying it into raising funds for the Center seemed a bit restrictive to me. Perry: The intention was two levels of events going on. One open to the public and secondly events that were sponsored by the Youth Center. A drug rehab program from a for-profit group that came to town to town to counsel Aspen area youth who had been to the Center and who might be going with their parents would not necessarily be open to the public. But it would be a sponsored event. Roger: Shall we just strike "to raise funds for the Center"? Tim: No. I think that loses the intent of if it as an activity in my mind that is operated or managed by for-profit organization. Part or even most of the profit I think should go to the Youth Center. You have this building that you can use to put funds back into the Center. And so to have a for-profit organization come with any worth-saving mission and not have the Youth Center get part of the profit because of a contractual and because of because of an agreement with the City, I don't think is the way the building should be used. Then it is just a commercial entity for anybody who needs to rent space. Perry: In reality what we are looking at is it is a tier arrange- ment where the first thing is we organize the Youth Programs that are going to go on for the winter season. Those are put into time slots which takes up X. Beyond that there is availability of the facility when it is not being used. And that is where we would go to CMC and others and co-ordinate with them when we can slot in classes that do not conflict with the Youth Programs. The third tier is going to be if we can do a fund raiser or someone wants to use it and it is an event that we feel is a contributor for the Youth Center, then we will plug them in. That is the way it is going to work. So this language is OK with us. I understand what Tim is saying. 5 PZM11.1.94 Roger: I still need clarification. Jasmine: I think we agree with what you are saying but I don't think this says that. Roger: OK--"All activity shall be of a public nature or sponsored by the Youth Center in order to generate income or raise funds to cover expenses II . Perry: Why don't we say "All activities shall either be of a public nature or sponsored by the Youth Center with the intent to generate funds for the Center. No for-profit or commercial event use shall be allowed other than uses sponsored by the Aspen Youth Center" . Tim: This is a tremendous opportunity for you to leverage everybody who comes to you that says they want to use your space. And you say "If we think you have a good enough organization that we will co-sponsor this with you for 50~ of the profit, you can use our space". And the more restrictive the language that says that it gives you more power to extract more money from people who want to use your space. You can say "This is not a commercial zone. This is not a commercial building. We can't rent it to you. We can't lease it to you. But we can join with you in the production of whatever you are going to do if we think it fits the community needs. And therefore we get half the profit". To me a public nature means to anybody. It is public. there, any person-- that it is not going to be restricted If there is an activity going on in Perry: The only restriction is the number of people you can get in there. Tim: Exactly. So I like the public nature statement sponsored by the Youth Center to raise funds for the Center. If you want to reword it to get Roger's language--I think it even makes it more specific to make sure that the general public knows that we are not just rolling over on our zoning and allowing some special use to save this organization and building. That we are actually trying to design a program that will work for the community and the organ- ization. Perry: What I said was "Either of a public nature or sponsored by the Youth Center to generate funds for the Center". Everyone agreed with this language. 6 PZM11.1.94 Sara: I would like uses of the Center Attorney's office". clarification on Condition #4. "Any leases or by other users shall be reviewed by the City Does that mean every single contract? Leslie: No. I guess what I meant was that this would give the City Attorney's office the ability to say "You are not within the purview of your lease with us". Sara: OK. I don't think John wants to look at every contract. Leslie: I didn't mean that at all. I just meant that we have that check in there that if the City gets a complaint from a restaurant or from the rug company that they are running trunk sales down there the City is going to say "This is out of the purview of your lease" . Perry: Then say "The City Attorney's office may have the right to review leases or uses of the Center". Tim: And then we get to be your ally in this. We get to defend your ability to make contracts with people who are going to allow you to share in their profits for the use of your space. Perry: Regarding the kitchen and the diner. I think Leslie's Condition #3--works fine for us. I have one clarification. What we are doing here is twofold. From May to September this is going to be an accessory use to the Center and to the Rio Grande Park. That is what we are asking for and is being recommended. So in the 4th line down it talks about the lease. "It will be structured pursuant to the lease used by the City at Iselin Park" which is fine. I would like to see "And will be used as an accessory use to the Rio Grande Park only from May through September". I have included a letter from Tom Farrell the Superintendent of schools and I have included the proposed curriculum from Janeane in terms of what they want to offer for a class. And to have someone actually come in for lunch that they could actually practice on is important for them. We are really excited about this and about the activity level that will be generated by having the restaurant down there--the diner going. We are sitting here saying that the Youth Center isn't used enough and the facility sits that and can be available to other groups. And on the other hand what we are really trying to do is create such an activity Center down there that the youth is using it all up. We would like to have you recognize that the restaurant and the diner is an accessory use to the Center. And use it for the Park from May to September when there is activity down there. 7 PZM11.1.94 Sara: What you are saying is you want that food service open from September to May to the public as well. Perry: Yes. And that was in our original application. Leslie: I say May to September in the memo. Now what you are saying is that it will be open to the public on a year round basis. Roger: Let's qualify that because to the public on a year round educational-- it sounds like you want it open basis if it is used as an Perry: Yes. And we have agreed to the restrictions about advertising and those kinds of things. Roger: But with that tied into it if it is for public usage other times of the year it has to be tied into and educational program. OK. I can deal with that if it is an educational program. I can't deal with it just saying it is open to the public year round. Then that gets out of hand. I don't mind if it is an educational program year round. Tim: Then it is my opinion that the concessionaire who is doing it for profit should be under the auspices of #1 and you should be able to share in the profit. Perry: We do. Tim: I don't know what this City/Iselin Park lease means. To me that is another big hole in the contract. I don't know what restrictions are put on the operator at Iselin Park because of that lease. But I think that #1 statement if we can make that strong enough--if we can make a water-tight umbrella over this whole thing that whoever operates any kind of a commercial activity down there is in partnership with the Youth Center and that basically the profits that are being generated--and maybe specify what percent of profit so that we can help you guys. Perry: Our agreement calls for a profit sharing in addition to rent. What you are saying is exactly what we are doing. So if we can put that kind of language in there, that is great. What I was trying to get at was I had put in here that the lease will be substantially in the form used at Iselin Park and will be reviewed and approved by the City Attorney. Roger: I look at #1 as basically the use of spaces other than the restaurant activity. Maybe that should be prefaced in #1. Then we have got to hammer out #3 which is the use of the kitchen and dining facilities. They are separate in nature. I don't have a 8 PZM11.1.94 problem with public use year round insofar as accessory to an educational program. Leslie: accessory that? May through September the to an educational program. way it operates was not Do you have a problem with Sara: I think the City and we as a Planning Commission have a respnsibility to protect the Jerome, Clark's Market and all the other dining and food facilities around that area. And not be giving you a big break because you are operating under a very favorable lease compared to those other people. Jasmine: I don't think anybody on the Commission has a problem with the use May through September to be considered as an accessory to the park. What we are trying to figure out is whether the kitchen is an accessory use to the Youth Center the rest of the time and does it need to be tied into an educational program. Everyone agreed it does need to be tied into an educational program. Jasmine: We don't have a problem with general public use May through September. What we would like to find is appropriate language to tie any restaurant use from September through May to an educational program. Perry: I would recommend--"The kitchen will serve as an accessory use to the Youth Center and as a concessioaire to the Rio Grande Park from May to September". In the next sentence- -The lease to the concessionaire shall be structured pursuant to the lease used by the City at Iselin Park and reviewed by the City Attorney. A term that we use with that diner is a "learning lab". That is the kind of thing that we are driving at and that you are driving at which is the educational nature from the end of September to the beginning of May. Jasmine: Then it will read "The kitchen will serve as an accessory to the Youth Center and as a concessionaire to the Rio Grande Park from May through September. The lease for the concessionaire shall be structured pursuant to the lease used by the City at Iselin Park and will be reviewed by the Aspen City Attorney". Then from October through April the kitchen will function as a learning lab, will pay rent to the Aspen Youth Center, etc. Perry: Absolutely. 9 PZM11.1.94 Jasmine: From October through April the kitchen will function as a learning lab. Roger: I suggest we get this in resolution form. problem with the wordage-- I still have a Perry: You can say that the kitchen will serve as an accessory use to the Youth Center. From May 1 through September 30 the kitchen and food service area shall function as an accessory use to the Rio Grande Park. Sara: I want that year round basis. I want that to happen all year round, not just from October till April. Perry: Maybe we don't need "Accessory use to the park" in there if we are talking about the diner as an accessory use to the Youth Center. Leslie: Then are we getting hung up on May through September and September to May? Marsha Bredlinger: In the school district we call these kinds of courses vocational courses because they are hands on. They are to teach the child a skill and the child can graduate with that kind of an ability. We have found that in our high school right now the largest percentage of employment by any of our students is the food service industry in our community. By using this as a vocational lab year round means that even though the child is not in the program while the school year is running, they are still in the program because they are using their skills as an employed person in our community and getting the experience. And we are totally prepared to give credit for this especially because a lot of the latino population at the high school are learning their english through their jobs. And that is helping us a great deal in our school system. Leslie: September Center as So what we should do for #3 is eliminate stuff--talk about it as an accessory use to a vocational plus educational program. this May the Youth I will come back to you with a resolution. Jasmine: Perry, are there any more things in here that you wanted to have clarified? Perry: No. Sara brought up item #4 because I was a little confused about that. But the rest of this is fine. 10 PZM11.1.94 Leslie: And we are changing the language to the City Attorney's Office--they have the right to review. Perry: Exactly. That is perfect. Leslie: And then I would just add the condition #7. "All material representations-- Perry: Aw come on! Now wait a minute! Roger: And maybe for an annual review for the first year round operation or something like that as well. Perry: Maybe you want to sayan annual review--not just the first year. So that if there are complaints and things are getting out of hand then-- MOTION Roger: I move to have the Planning Office write a resolution basically approving the amendment of the Youth Center for the final SPA approval along the guidelines of what we have talked about here. And including a specimen annual review that we have looked at to see and fine-tune if necessary. Sara seconded the motion. Jasmine asked for public comment. Erik Bredlinger, director of Youth Center: This would really bring a lot more people into the Youth Center including families. And it will really help us with our program. There were no further public comments and Jasmine closed the public hearing. Everyone voted in favor of the motion. Regular meeting was adjourned. Time , I I. Janice Commission continued with a presentatlon by Leslie on the mith Building. 11