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RECORD OF PROCBBDINGS
.
Special Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
April 30. 1985
Chairman Perry Harvey called the meeting to order at 5:10 p.m. with
commissioners Pat Fallin, Welton Anderson, David White, and
alternate Ramona Markalunas present.
COMMISSIONERS I COMMBRTS
Wel ton Anderson asked the commission what requirements had been
set on the satelite dish at the Floridora Building. There is a
large, about 12 foot, silver dish on the top of the building
that can be seen from everywhere. Ms. Fallin said they were
supposed to get a small er screen which would be placed in a
location where it would be hidden.
Harvey asked Alan Richman, planning office, to contact Bill
Drueding, Building Department, and have him look up the approval
and report back to the planning office or the commission.
MINUTES
March 19. 1985: Ramona Markal unas moved to approve the minutes
of March 19, 1985, seconded by Pat Fallin. All in favor, motion
carried.
April 2. 1985: Pat Fallin moved to approve
2, 1985, seconded by Ramona Markalunas.
carried.
the minutes of April
All in favor motion
April 16, 1985:
April 16, 1985,
motion carried.
Dav id Whi te moved to approve the minutes of
seconded by Welton Anderson. All in favor,
PUBLIC BEARING
ASPBN MOORTAIN LODGB POD
Anderson said since the final vote was taken on the lodge portion
of the project he has become involved with the project and
stepped down for conflict of interest.
Alan Richman said the reason for this public hearing relates to
questions raised by various members of the public, at a City
Council meeting on the final platt, relating to proper
notice. Rather than leave doubt as to whether the notice was done
properly the applicants requested renoticing of all property
owners around the entire PUD.
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Soecial Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
April 30. 1985
The POD was heard in 2 stages, 1 the lodge, the other the
residential. There is not a specific presentation for this
meeting. There are, however, two issues which could come up
tonight, one being the service area changes, the other issue
being the question of landscaping and specifically tree removal.
Harvey opened the public hearing. He asked the applicants if they
wanted to make a presentation, or wait for public comments. John
Doremus replied, for the applicant, they would respond to public
comment or commissioner comment.
Richman said it was not the intent of this meeting to readopt or
reapprove the resolutions, unless there is a specific need
to. Harvey asked for a presentation on the changes in the service
area.
Doug Greybeal, applicants architect,outlined the changes in the
entrance to the service area. He told the commission, due to the
change s, the appl icant s have asked City Council to approve an
increase of 1200 square feet to enclose an area in the service
entrance. In addition they have also asked for an elimination of
3 parking spaces on Monarch Street to allow the landscaping to
blend into the space. Grabel also said all radiuses within the
service entrance have been designed to allow trucks easy manuve-
rability in the loading dock area. Harvey noted that the service
entrance is also the main entrance to the hotel, will there be
any problem with guests entry. Grabel replied that it wasn't the
be st sol ution f or the appl icant so at times the re could be
problems. The applicants have researched and talked with the
trucking companies and feel there shoul dn' t be a probl em with
trucks stacking up in the area. There are also 3 streets coming
into the area which should allow for flexibility.
Fred Smith, neighbor, addressed the commission. He said he was
delighted with the improvement to the service area. His critisisum
was in regard to whether it was necessary to encroach on Monarch
street. We need a place to store snow on Monarch Street, as it is
now the street is only one lane wide in the winter due to the
snow. By reducing the width of the street another 8 to 10 feet,
the only place the snow can go is on to the sidewalk. I think the
commission should consider what the benef i t to the publ ic is,
having the landscaping encroach on the public right-of-way. This
project is supposed to be beneficial, they had many acres to plan
this serv ice area in, I don I t see why the publ ic street right-of-way
needs to be used.
Grabel responded that the encroachment on Monarch is to allow
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Planning and Zoning Commission
April 30. 1985
space for the sidewalk to come around the building. We accommodated
the snow problem by putting a curve into the parking spaces. The
idea of the landscaping is to provide a visual buffer for the
surrounding neighbors. Harvey asked if the landscaping were moved
back, and did not encroach, would there be a snow slide problem
from the roofs. Grabel replied no and outlined on the plans where
the snow would be caught on their deck area. Harvey said then the
landscaping and encroachment are esthetic. Grabel replied yes,
that they were hearing from the owners on Monarch Street that
they wanted this. Joe Wells said they had submitted a scheme
without the landscaping and with the landscaping and that the
City Council had prefered the landscaping.
Ron Erickson, neighbor, said one of the reasons this had come
back to the commission was because there was not proper notification
to properties adjacent to the building site. I think the neighbors
prefer the new service area plan over the original plan submitted.
Harvey asked Richman if the commission had to make any clarification
regarding the 1200 square feet of additional space, given item 12
in Resolution 85-1 which addresses the commissions recommendation
to elimiate the covered areas. Joe Wells said initially they
thought they could combine it with the unenclosed space category
but decided not to do that because they might want to enclose it
at some point. Harvey asked where the space was. Wells replied
underneath the roof line, outlined on plans, with other mechanical
space ie. transformers, trash, etc.
Richman said Council has already agreed and made a motion to
approve the design with the additional 1200 square feet. Harvey
asked if the commission should send Council a resolution discussing
our discussion tonight and giving them our findings. Richman
replied yes, as opposed to making minor changes to the 2 already
exi sting resol ut ions. Harvey asked the commission if they fel t
the additional 1200 square feet shoud be supported. The reply was
yes.
Jim Delman, representing the Mountain Queen Condominium Association,
said they only recently became aware of a probl em wi th the
configuration of the service area. When we came to Council a
couple of weeks ago we were faced wi th what we thought was a
totally unacceptable situation. The possibility of large trucks
getting tied up on a step grade creating problems in the winter
time. We felt that Council was perceptive to our position at that
time. One week later the applicant had come up with the new
service area configuration and we must say it is an exceptional
improvement. Trucks will now be on a level street, we think there
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SRecial Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
JUlril 30. 1985
will be much less congestion on Monarch Street and overall we
think it will be a better project. That is not to say that we
give it 100% of our blessing. I do think there are things the
commission should consider, such as mitigating noise problems,
traffic problems, polution problems, etc.
Ms. Markalunas asked what the offset on Monarch St. was. Wells
replied 8 feet. He added that didn't constitute a reduction in
the on street commitment that was made and approved in the
beginning, because the parking was lost to the service drive. We
are still maintaining the same on street parking as originally
planned.
Joe Krabacher, representing the Aztec Condominiums directly
across the street from the proposed service entrance, commented
that he would like to reiterate what was on everybodys minds,
which is, this is a service entrance for the.entire lodge, there
will be a lot of traffic which will cause problems that need to
be mitigated. Although this has been discussed before, this is
the first public hearing before the commission. The Aztec Condom-
iniums would like to make the following suggestions to be incorp-
orated in to the proposed service area: they would like to see
the large Spruce tree on the corner of Dean and Monarch Streets
remain in its location, significant landscaping of the service
. area to reduce the visual impact, a requirement that the applicant
keep the dumpster and trash compacter under the roof of the
service facility, and that the applicant provide some kind of
sound proofing for the walls and possibly the ceiling of the
service area in order to mitigate the noise polution. Mr. Krabacher
also said that the president of the Aztec Condominiums, Patrick
Smith, had written a letter, because he was unable to attend this
meeting, and would like to get the commissions reaction to the
COmments raised in the letter. The letter was submitted for the
record.
Krabacher outlined the concerns that Mr. Smith stated in his
letter. One of his concerns was the height of the project creating
a .wall" effect on Monarch street.He feels that there is still an
issue as to the design of the roofs and whether. or not they meet
the building code requirements for a mansard roof. Another concern
is how the trucks intend to get into the service area and where
they will be parked while waiting to get into the area. He also
said the plans are not clear as to what the patio cut will be and
questioned whether it should be cut back at an angle. He raised
concern about the Spruce trees on ~Ionarch. He raised a question
as to whether or not the commission has addressed the potential
issue of burying the existing utility poles and lines. His final
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concern was regarding landscaping being done to minimalize
the visual impacts.
Harvey asked Richman if building height was done at the conceptual
level. Richman replied yes, and finally given agreement to the fact
that the mansard roof, and the whole question of how you measure
a mansard roof, was entirely irrelovent. Planning and Zoning and
Council set height limits at the conceptual level, and verify
that they are complied with at the preliminary and final
level. Height is not an issue to be discussed at this meeting. Doug
Grabel addressed the concerns voiced in Mr. Smith's letter. In
regard to trucks backing up in the service area, it was pointed
out at the last Council meeting that there is an ordinance that
exists in the city that prohibits trucks from stacking up, so the
City has control of that issue. In the matter of noise, our trash
compacter is under the roof overhang. We, too, are concerned
about the problem so we are currently exploring all possibilities
to eliminate the noise in that qrea. Richman added that the City
has a noise ordinance which they will have to comply with. The
roof heights have already been addressed. The wall heights will
be 8 feet to 12 feet at the highest point. The compacter will be
contained within the service area except when it is being loaded
on a truck. There is physically no way to cut the angle from the
storage area in order to allow truck access. The landscaping
. shown on the plans is purely an architectural graphic, we have
not gotten to the point of studying it. .
Harvey asked where the "spruce tree" in question was located, and
if it could be maintained and still give adequate access. Joe
Wells replied it was on the north west corner directly above the
proposed ballroom and could not be maintained in that location.
Joe Wells clarified that this was not the first public hearing on
the lodge, it is the fourth. The question as to whether or not
the notice was adequate at the first preliminary hearing results
from the fact that adj acent property owners to the lodge were
noticed for the lodge preliminary public hearing and adjacent
property owners to the residential project were noticed for the
residential portion of the preliminary hearing. Rather than
debate whether or not there was a deficiency in the noticing, we
chose to renotice and go through the whole process again.
The Aztec Condominium Association was noticed, at their record
address, for the second public hearing held.
Harvey addressed the issue in Mr. Smith's letter suggesting that
the applicant bury the utili ty lines on Monarch during the
construction of the project. We are requiring that utility lines
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April 30. 1985
be undergrounded on the site by the city. We don't believe it
should be the city's policy to make development pay for what is a
city responsibility, to underground utilities throughout the city.
Fred Smith said he wanted to get on the record regarding the
height and density of the proj ect. Harvey allowed him to make a
statement, but added that the height has been resolved during the
conceptual and is not up for discussion at this meeting. Fred
pointed out that Section 24-7.1 says "the definitional, regulatory,
and other general provisions of Chapter 24 shall, when not in
conflict with the approved plans, continue with equal force and
within such areas". I don't think PUD has the right to change how
you measure the heights, it clearly says in Section 24 how to
measure the heights. Council said if they were 42 feet to the mid
point of the roof line, this would be acceptable. I think the
developer has complied with that, but I think everybody should
realize that this building is actually over 60 feet measured with
our existing code. I think when the platt is approved, and any of
the exceptions or variances are noted, it should note the maximum
height of the building that is allowed. Somehow the "beneficial
to the neighborhood" got lost in the PUD planning.
Fred Smiths second point was that of density, and the code
clearly says that you can not exceed the allowed density in the
~rea. I am confused as to how density is defined in this
area. Richman answered that density is the number of units on the
site, not the FAR. The FAR specifically is allowed to be varied
under the PUD and the P&Z and Council have agreed to vary
it. Density is something that was discussed at great length by
both P&Z and Council because the issue came up of how you interpret
certain aspects of the zoning code. Wells added that the code-
allows you to define lodge square footage into any configuration
of rooms that you choose. It simply establishes a limitation on
square footage. Therefore, the square footage can be varied under
PUD, therefore, the number of lodge rooms that can be allowed can
be varied.
Harvey asked for comments on the issues of sound proofing of and
enclosing of the trash area, where the trucks park etc. addressed
in Mr. Smith's letter. Richman asked if there was any desire to make
statements to Council about any of this. Harvey replied it
appears the new service area is more sensitive to the neighborhood
and has been overly landscaped. It seems there is not much
concern about the noise and pollution factor because the hotel
has a large number of rooms overlooking that specific area. Noise
and Pollution would have an impact on the lodge first. Richman
and Harvey said it should be said that we have reviewed the changes
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April 30. 1985
.and find them to be an improvement. Ms. Markalunas questioned, as
stated in Mr. Smith's letter, the guarantee that this is going to
be accomplished according to the plans submitted and that there
will be no changes hereafter, is that the building department's
charge? Richman replied that was why he was asking for a statement,
so that it becomes part of record and a representation of a
commitment. A copy of the plans will be kept in the record so
there will be something to refer back to and if the applicant is
not building according to plans then they would have to go back
for approval again.
Fred Smith again stated concern, being, if there is not adequate
overhead clearence and the trash can't be lifted out correctly
they will leave it out in the open court area. We need to verify
that the covered service area is the only place trash can be
stored. Harvey said he didn't want the community to lose focus on
the importance and benefits that can be generated to a community
by a new lodging facility such as this one. Smith said the
purpose of the PUD is to provide a beneficial use of the property,
they have 14 acres to provide this facility, this is the chance
to "do it right" and we think you should. Harvey asked for
clarification of the status of the trash pickup. Grabel outlined
the method of pickup on the plans.
Bob Hartman, owner of 2 Mountain Queen units, told the commission
that he had not been notified of the proceedings in a formal
way. We joined with the other Monarch owners in opposing the
original access to the service area. We are delighted with the
developers changes to the service area, as proposed now, with the
screening of the area from Monarch St. We assume that the landsc-
aping will be appropriate. With the exception of that, we are
concerned about any possible future changes or modificaations of
the site plan of that development to the east of Monarch. He
asked if there were any changes proposed. Harvey responded that
the area of Mr. Hartman I s concern was part of the residential
portion of the PUD which has been delayed, pending monitoring of
the mud slide area on Aspen Mountain. After the monitoring is
complete, that portion will come back before the commission.
Joan Anderman, owner 700 Galena St. ,said she was pleased with
developers. She asked if the area around her property was going
to be discussed at this meeting. Joe Wells responded that the
issue was open for comment. Harvey added that this meeting was
held for public comment, on any issue. Wells said the area around
her property has not changed from the original plans.
Ron Erickson asked if there would be another public meeting before
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Planning and Zoning Commission
April 30. 1985
phase 2 of the project final platt approval. Richman said it
would be renoticed. Erickson expressed concern that Summit Place
is currently the only way an ambulance can get into the top of
Monarch St. in the winter time. There is a ski way planned for
that area and before final platt approval, I want to be sure
that idea is considered. Richman said the road is not going to be
built at this point in time, they are giving right-of-way to the
city.
Joe Wells outlined the current proposed landscaping plan, and
phase lA tree relocation plan that was revised and submitted to
the building inspector on April 9, 1985. Wells stated that it was
approved by the building inspector. It is the plan under which
we were proceeding to relocate, remove and retain trees. Generally,
every tree within the site has to be relocated or lost because of
the extensive undergrounding space under the facility. We were
asked by Jim Holland to make every attempt to retain some addi tional
trees and we made a commitment to try to move every tree possible
off of the site. However, we have now moved every tree we can. We
were told to move any more of the larger spruces would be lunacy,
they are so big that they would not survive. It looks like we
could lose up to an additional 7 major spruce trees off of the
site. We have come to the commission for your suggestions and
alternatives. Harvey asked what the largest tree that can be
put somewhere ,for replant was. Wells replied that 4 spruces,
between 20 and 40 feet in height had been moved. It is not the
size of the tree that is the issue, but the difficulty of the
location and the ability to get to it. Harvey asked what could be
put back on the site when complete. Joe Wells responded they had
been told you could get "prepared" 30 to 40 foot trees for
relocation.
John Doremus said, given the fact that the. trees have to be lost,
the landscape architect doesn't want to put that particular kind
of tree back. It is not in his master plan for landscaping. Having
the choice, he would put in street trees that match other street
trees in the plan. Not replace the large spruce tree, because it
was there before, but to create a more unified landscape plan.
Richman said he had conversations with the City Manager, the
Chief Building Official, and the Parks Director and there are
several complications with the tree issue. We have had a landscaping
plan for months, which has been reviewed and commented on, which
is not the same plan that has been presented tonight. Regardless
of which plan was approved, apparently the people doing the tree
relocations have not been following either plan. There are at
least 2 trees on Monarch st. that were cut down that had no
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Special Meeting
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April 30. 1985
approval. They claim that Jim Wilson had given approval to the
plan, but it is not the same plan that Jim Wilson gave the approval
to. We have a need to get some mitigation on trees that have been
removed contrary to the approvals granted. We have the potential,
beyond the 2 that have already been removed, for losing 5 more
significant trees in the area. If we are going to look at replac-
ement, I think we should look at a replacement schedule of at
least 2 or 3 trees per tree lost.
Harvey asked what treatment had been applied at preliminary PUD
on landscaping. John Doremus answered they were to follow, as
much as possible, Jim Holland's recommendations. That was to save
7 or 8 trees that we had planned to cut down. Harvey stated that
the commission should stick to what was decided at preliminary,
and leave Jim Holland in charge of approval of the landscape
plan. Richman said we need to give Jim a plan and a chance to
review and comment to his satisfaction.
Joe Wells said their understanding was that Berridge Associates,
applicants landscape architect, produced the version of the plan
submitted tonight, shipped the plan to Henry Pederson, who took
the plan to the Building Inspector. The Building Inspector
approved the plan, there is a notation on the plan dated April
9, 1985. We want to get action from P&Z and Council as to what
the tree relocation plan should be. We feel there' is an error,
that some members of the team were assuming all they had to do
was get the building inspectors sign-off and they could proceed
with different plans. We don't want to do that. We want an action
from this commission and Council that indicates what the final
tree relocation plan is to be.
Fred Smith commented that he had come home to find the trees were
cut down. He went to the Building Department and there was a tree
cutting application that had been approved. The building department
gave me a copy of the official drawing, as submitted by the
applicant. After looking at the drawfng, it appears that all of
the trees that were to be retained were cut down. I agree that
these big trees can not be saved, but I am upset about the trees
that were cut from public right-of-way, presumably because of the
underground excavation for the ballroom area. Why, with 14 acres,
do they have to build this on the lot line of Monarch St. Mr. Smith
reviewed the landscape plan given to him by the building department
with the commissioners.
Harvey said it was the stated position of the commission that Jim
Holland be in charge of the tree dispositions, etc. so the
applicant needs to go back to Jim Holland.
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Ms. Markalunas asked how large a spruce tree can be planted in
the area to replace the trees that are cut down. Wells replied a
properly prepared tree of 30 to 40 feet. Ms. Markalunas asked if
the applicant was prepared to replace the trees that were cut. Wells
responded that he would go back to the owner on that question.
Harvey said he would like to see Jim Holland do some detective
work and track back the plans and put his rubber stamp on the
plan that he is approving, with his comments and suggestions and
the applicants conformance to them. Both parties can come to a
mutual sign-off on that plan. Harvey added that the supplemental
resolution should clearly state that there should be this process
of going through an established plan, signed-off on by both the
applicant and Jim Holland. If work is being done on the trees
right now, I think it should cease until this is done. Wells
responded that work has already ceased.
Richman asked for clarification as to whether the commission was
requesting "comparable replacement" or "multiple smaller" for the
trees in question. Harvey responded that if Jim Holland and the
appl icants architects agree on a landscape plan for the enti re
si te, which they f eel is both beneficial f or the ci ty and the
project, we would not want to be in the way of that agreement by
saying that on a particular site a particular tree has to be
placed there. Richman said that it should be said that the trees
that the commission expects to be replaced, that are now being
removed, be replaced with trees of comparable size, where feasable.
John Doremus said there was an error in Resolution 85-6, page 3,
item 5, lines 4 and 5, refering to employee housing restrictions
indexed at the time or prior to issuance of the building permit. We
had anticipated that would occur prior to certificate of occupancy,
not at the time of building. Harvey asked what the policy or
precedent on this was. Richman replied the employee housing unit
pact takes place at the time that the building is occupied. Harvey
concurred.
Mr. Doremus said Resolution 85-1, page 5, item 14, we don't
think reads what we have agreed to, having encountered the Top of
Mill problem. Richman noted that at the time it was applicable,
the Top of Mill problem superseded that. Harvey asked if it was
covered in other Resolutions. Richman replied 85-7 was the
commissions comment to Council. Richman added that he agreed with
Doremus, that preliminary approval has become effective for
everything with the Top of Mill being witheld. Harvey asked if we
were going to make corrections to the resolutions or create a new
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resolution. Richamn replied his intent was to create a new
resolution for this meetings comments. Any action that needs to
be taken is final platt action at this point. The commission
agreed that Resolution 85-1, page 5, item 14 was misleading.
Mr. Doremus said there were some minor changes in the parking
configuration in Resolution 85-1, page 3, Section 2, item 3. Item
B went from 54 to 55 spaces, Item C went from 19 to 18 spaces,
Item E went from 22 to 23 spaces, Item F went from 12 to 13
spaces. The net resul twas 2 addi tional parking spaces, so the
total should be changed from 349 spaces to 351 spaces.
Perry Harvey closed the public hearing.
The meeting was adjourned at 6:42 p.m.
cf ~ U-/Ll~L 'C
Kim Wilhoit, Deputy City Clerk
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