HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19850806
REGULAR MEETING
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLARII1ING AND"Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
Chairman Welton Anderson called the meeting to order at 5:02
p.m. with Commissioners' David White, Mari Peyton, Al Blomquist,
Roger Hunt, Jim Colombo, Ramona Markalunas and Jasmine Tygre
(arrived late) present.
COMMISSIONERS' COMIIEN'l'S
Alan Richman, planning director, responded to a question regarding
the Chart House roof ducts raised at an earlier meeting by Peyton.
Richman said they had found there had been no representations
about architecture on the project. It is a case where the
Commission did not ask for as much as they should have in the
approval process. The ducts have been covered to some degree.
White asked when the Transportation element was going to be
studied. Richman said the planning office has started on 2 items
at this time. The downtown plan will go before Council on
August 26, 1985. Richman said this will probably require the
Commi ssion to hold a special work session prior to the date to
discuss what will be shown to Council and to get ideas. Richman
suggested a lunch session on August 23, 1985.
Hunt said the Mill Street Station still did not have a service
elevator and asked what the status was.
MINUTES
Hunt moved to approve the minutes of June 18, 1985 and those of
June 25, 1985; White seconded. All in favor motion carried.
PUBLIC BEARING
MUNICIPAL CODE AllBRDMEN'l':
PUBLIC BEARING RO'l'IFICATION REOUIREMEN'l'S
Steve Burstein, planner, said over the last year several issues
with regard to public hearings and public hearing requirements
had been raised. Burstein reviewed the issues raised and the
planning office memorandum regarding them, dated August 6, 1985.
Anderson opened the public hearing. There were no comments,
therefore, the public hearing was closed.
Hunt said he did not agree with issue #2 regarding changing the
public hearing notification requirements as applied to condominium
owners. Part .of the rationale for allowing condominiumization
1
REGULAR MEETING
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLARII1ING AND 'Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUS'l' 6. 1985
was that there was no additional burden to the City. With this
requirement there will be much more work placed on the City. It
will be very difficult to determine how many owners there are as
well as keeping track of them. He felt the responsibility should
remain with the associations of the properties.
White agreed with Hunt on issue #2. When we get in to timeshare
there a 15 owners of 1 unit. This could also be an expense to
the City. Part of the responsibility for a condominium or timeshare
should be their managements, to get information to their people.
The entire condominium only has one vote, like any owner of a
property does, even though there may be 35 people in the building.
Blomquist commented often the managers let things ride. It was
the individual owners that expressed concern. It has been a long
tradition of the management companies to not feel strongly one
way or another since they are not owners. The purpose of public
notice is to notice the owners.
White agreed with Blomquist on his standpoint but felt it is the
condominium associations responsibility to handle those things.
If the owners disagree with that then they can go to their
association and change the bylaws to be sure their desires are
adhered to. It is not the City's responsibility.
Hunt said according to the planing office memorandum it states
the City Attorney said this was "probable". Hunt said he would
1 ike an actual reading of exactly where we stand legally. Hunt
felt the law was being accommodated legally by notifying the legal
representative of the owner. Barry Edwards, city attorney,
disagreed saying when you talk about due process in giving people
notice you have to be careful to try and give the most effective
notice. Edwards added that White and Hunt assume that in every
case the condominium unit owners have designated a manager or
association as their agent and this is not always the case. You
can not assume the manager or the association has been given the
responsibility, or required to act in the way they are assuming.
Anderson said he had been through the process before and it is
not that difficult to go to the County Assessors office and get
the names from the tax records. He added he did not feel this was
as much of a burd~n on the City as the applicant. He said he
thought the requirement of providing the names on already addressed
envelopes was to save the planing office work. If the person is
paying a fee for the application he thought it should cover some
serv ices.
2
REGm.AR MEETING
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLARII1ING AND 'Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
White asked what the position on time sharing in this issue would
be, if passed. The general reply was that each person would be
considered an owner.
Motion:
Peyton moved to recommend that City Council amend the Municipal
Code in the first sentence of Section 20-10 (d) to read:
"within thirty (30) days of receipt of the Planning
Commission recommendation and at a public hearing noticed
according to the standards of Section 20-13, the City Council
shall approve, conceptual presentation."
and further to recommend that City Council amend the first
sentence of Section 24-8.8 to read as follows:
"Section 24-8.8 Conceptual presentation -- City Council
public hearing"
Within thirty (30) days of receipt of the planning commission
recommendation and at a public hearing noticed according to
the standards of Section 24-8.10, the city council shall
approve, di sapprove, or approve wi th modifications the
conceptual presentation"
Blomquist seconded. All in favor; motion carried.
Motion-=-
Blomquist moved to recommend to City Council to change the public
hearing application requirement, as they apply to condominium unit
owners, such that instead of noticing given to the condominium
managers it would be given directly to the owners; Peyton seconded.
Five in favor, White and Hunt opposed; motion carried.
Motion:
Blomq ui st moved to recommend to City Council that appl icants for
land use reviews be required to supply the planing office with the
names of property owners and supply pre-addressed envelopes;
Peyton seconded. Anderson opposed, all others in favor; motion
carried.
Anderson commented that sometimes the 15 day notice requirement
works against an applicant because notice is not published and the
schedul ing doesn I t work out right. Sometimes instead of 15 days
it becomes 5 weeks. Anderson asked that the planning office
3
REGULAR MEETING
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLARII1ING AND 'Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
investigate whether this could be shortened. Richman responded
that a State statute requires the 15 days.
NEW BUSINESS
LITTLE NRT.J. CONCEPTUAL SPA
Richman said this was the first time a Conceptual SPA has come
before the Commission and told the Commissioners there were two
things he would like to see answered at this meeting; III has
anything been deferred at the precise plan stage of the review
that the Commission thinks should be reviewed at the conceptual
stage, and 112 are there any technical issues that have been
missed which should be studied by the applicant towards their
precise plan stage of review. He also commented that he would
prefer not to deal with the growth policy question at this
meeting, the subj ect is big enough to have its own focus. He
would prefer to handle it at the second review with the SPA
boundary, both being policy review questions.
Peter Forsch, applicant for the Aspen Skiing Corporation, explained
their proposal. Mr. Forsch said the SPA Ordinance finally allows
them to come forward with this submission. He expressed there
was a time concern on their part in order to coincide this
project with the Aspen Mountain Master plan project. Some of the
requirements of our bond issue requires specific dates.
Mr. Forsch reiterated Richman's statement of the conceptual
nature of this, being an SPA submission with an extra layer of
review. He explained this proposal is actually the bottom half
of the Aspen Mountain Master plan, which this Commission has
reviewed. Mr. Forsch said they had approached the whole issue
as a benef i t to the community and the neighborhood. He added
that all of the surrounding neighbors are in support of the
project, with the exception of the Aspen Square who is taking a
neutral posi tion.
Mr. Forsch said they were disappointed with Richman's recommenda-
tion, to deny the hotel portion of the project. Our intentions
are to continue to pursue the project and to try to explain to
the Commission our reasons for not agreeing with that
recommendation. The renovation of the base area is one of the
foremost concerns. The area is deteriorating and not a very good
entrance to guests. We recognize and share Richman's concern
about the GMP quota allocation question and agree it is probably
the overriding issue and threshold question and an issue that needs
4
REGULAR MEETING
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLARII1ING AND 'Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
to be answered. Our first thought was not to waste the Commis-
sions time and go directly to City Council and ask them for a
recommendation on the whole area of future growth and allocation.
After talking with Richman he suggested that we proceed with this
Commission through the process and try to get it to City Council
as quickly as possible for them to make the decision. As a part
of that Mr. Forsch asked the Commission to stick to the time
table and schedule that the Planning Office has allocated to this
process, two meetings.
Mr. Forsch gave a slide presentation outlining the proposed
project. Mr. Forsch said they would like to begin construction
of the project in 1987.
Bill Kane, applicant, reviewed drawings of the proposed project.
He said the neighborhood is predominately short-term lodging
oriented with the key buildings being the Tipple Inn, North of
Nell, Woodstone, Aspen Square, and the Aspen Alps. The zone for
the site, which is slightly over 43,000 sq.ft., is CC SPA.
There is a larger tract of land proposed to expand the site to
88,000 sq. ft., to include C SPA on a portion of the site. Kane
said the proposal, from a zoning land use standpoint, is to
confine the vast majority of the proposed lodging and commercial
activities in the CC SPA zone. The land that is zoned C SPA is
proposed for ski area administrative functions, office, ticketing
and accounting, and the food service depot. The application
proposes extension of the SPA boundary line to incorporate
sufficient land for, new lift terminals, the hotel structure, and
expanded ski administration functions.
Kane outlined a drawing illustrating the transportation context
of the site. The pedestrian access corridors, as they exist now,
were also reviewed.
A drawing outlining the utility configuration was explained.
Kane said they uncovered a utility constraint, to be dealt with in
the design of the project, being the pump house off of Durant St.
The pump house pulls water off of a 6 inch water line on Durant
and ground water to recharge the Aspen Mountain tanks. It is an
important source of water for the City to recharge tanks to
interact with snow making. The facility will have to be incorpo-
rated in our design. We have talked with Jim Markalunas, water
department, and are currently operating on 2 or 3 conceptual
alternatives for dealing with putting that pumping function
underground. There are numerous other util i ties that cross the
site, however, at this point there are no insurmountable problems
5
REGULAR MEETING
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLARII1ING AND 'Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
dealing with those utilities. Kane added that there was also an
irrigation easement on the site.
Kane said the proposal also proposes the development of pedestrian
malls (outlined on drawings) which would become pedestrian access
ways to the mountain. One of the key features of the site plan
is to try to create a base area for a new proposed maj or 1 ift on
Aspen Mountain. By doing this it creates an opportunity for
building space underneath the mountain grade. The idea being the
building underneath could be Aspen Ski Company, food service
operations, and retail space with people entering at the 0
grade. Other areas of the site plan were reviewed.
Larry Yaw, applicant's architect, reviewed the architectural
drawings and explained he thought the most important aspect of
the architecture was the site planning. The proposed building
responds to important site criteria in its architecture. We feel
the building needs a street presence in order to carry out the
theme of downtown Aspen, we have, therefore, let the building
come out to the street at points. The building begins to turn
away from the street to give a visual message to the skier mall.
Mr. Yaw added that an important social element of the design is the
ski deck.
White asked how many lodge units, since 1980, that were allocated
by Council, have not been used. Richman replied none, all lodge
units that have been within the quota system have been allocated.
Richman added there had been commercial and residential units
dropped, but not lodge units. There are projects who still have
allocations which are as yet unbuil t.
White asked what the County had done on the parking situation for
this project. Mr. Forsch said they asked the applicant to
develop or participate in the development of 46 parking spaces.
Richman added that this requirement was not limited to the site,
or a time frame placed on it.
White questioned whether the City owned Dean St. Richman said it
is not vacated and the applicant has indicated they have easements
over it. White then asked how far it went in toward Nell.
Mr. Forsch outlined the area on the plans, stating Dean st. ended
at the corner of the North of Nell building.
Markalunas asked about the park parcel located between the Aspen
Alps and this proposed project. Kane outlined the area on the
map. Hunt commented that it appears the corner of the proposed
6
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEETING
PLARII1ING AND 'Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
building almost touches the park parcel. Gideon Kaufman, applicants
attorney, said the history of the park parcel site was to preserve
the view plane of the Aspen Alps. Mr. Forsch added that they had
talked with the management of the Aspen Alps and they are familiar
with the project. In addition, Mr. Forsch said there was no
encroachment in to the park parcel.
Markal unas asked if the Hunter St. Plaza would be designated
public. Mr. Forsch replied that it was their intention to have
it as public plaza, highly landscaped, etc. for public circulation.
Hunt asked how a semi-truck could get out of the proposed receiving
dock. Mr. Yaw repl ied a st udy had been done in great detail at
this level and should be ready for review at the next submission.
Hunt said he had basically the same question regarding the
receiving dock for restaurants on Dean St. Mr. Forsch said that
whole area is a concern for them also but there is no other place
at the base of Aspen Mountain where they can except del iveries.
Mr. Forsch added they hope to have those details before they get
to the precise stage of this process. Richman asked if any
members of the Commission wanted to question the concept of 2
service entrances. Hunt said he understood the reasoning for
separating them, having alot to do with circulation on the
mountain. Blomquist said he liked the 2 service entrances
because there has been a problem with the North of Nell building
unloading on to Durant St.
Peyton commented it appeared there were not going to be any more
off-street skier drop-off areas. Mr. Forsch said it was not
shown but certainly contemplated on the Durant St. frontage with
more space than is currently available in the parking area.
Peyton commented that would still be using the city street and
that didn't seem an adequate solution. Kaufman asked if Ms. peyton
had a conceptual problem with people being dropped off on Durant
St. Peyton replied it was a time consuming operation for people
to be dropped off and get all of their things out of the car
and it seems if there is more than one car doing it at a time
they will be standing out in the middle of Durant St. Mr. Forsch
said they would anticipate and look to eliminating parking during
the morning hours so it could be used as a skier drop-off area.
Richman pointed out that in the Aspen Mountain Master Plan
approval process one of the commitments the applicant made was to
continue to have that drop-off area and he would not consider it
to be a drop-off area on the street.
7
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEETING
PLARII1ING AND 'Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
White voiced 2 problems; receiving and Dean St.. He liked the
idea of separating the receiving for the hotel on one side, and
the mountain receiving on Dean St. If there is any way to
separate the people and the cars it would be better. Having
trucks and people both on Dean St. bothered him.
Colombo asked how big the internal area of the hotel was going to
be. Mr. Yaw replied 95 feet across and 165 feet deep. Colombo
commented that without moving the building forward the same
number of rooms could be accommodated by recessing it and giving
up some of the internal space and getting an on property breeze
way drop off that is separated from the street by some sort of
parkway. Kane outlined 14 angle parking spaces and suggested
taking some of those spaces out and using the street surface for
a drop-off area. Blomquist said there could be a problem with
that and snow shedding off of the roof of the building on to
pedestrians. Kane responded that they intend to manage the snow
on the roof. Peyton said she thought the drop-off area should be
handled on the applicants property rather than on the public
right of way. Mr. Kaufman said the public right of way is
currently being used throughout town to help people. Lodges in
town park on the public right of way, and a lot of people use the
public right of way, it is there to service these kind of things.
What we are suggesting is not going to impede people from traveling
on the street, it is just another form of transportation.
Tygre asked about pedestrian access from Ute Ave., or other
properties, to the east. Kane outlined an area on the plans
stating it was supposed to be at the same elevation, allowing
access.
Markal unas was curious about the shade factor on Durant St. and
the icy conditions that traditionally exist in the winter.
Mr. Yaw said that it would remain as it is now. Markalunas asked
if the sidewalk would be heated. Mr. Forsch said it probably would
not be heated but would certainly be maintained. Mr. Forsch said
the way the building cuts back at the corners addresses that
problem, and the sloped roof should allow the building to get
more sun to the street. Anderson suggested the applicant might
do a shadow study.
White commented that Aspen Mountain's capacity will be around
4500 with the Aspen Mountain Master Plan. Mr. Forsch said it is
rated now at about 3000 and the increased capacity will bring it
up to approximately 4500. White said that means there will be
approximately 3200 skiers going up the new lift right in the hotel
8
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEE'l'ING
PLARII1ING ANn 'Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
area. That is alot of people having to be dropped-off to ski in
the area. Mr. Forsch said the lift is designed to handle that
amount of traffic and will be able to move those numbers of
people out of the area much quicker. White said his concern was
that there will be that many people in the area being dropped
off, trying to get their equipment out of the car, and how many
people will be impacted coming in to there between the hours of
9:00 and 10:30 a.m. Mr. Forsch said the significant impact would
come from the Aspen Mountain Lodge and should not be driving,
therefore, he did not anticipate any significant drop-off increase
over what is al ready happening. The improvements are to accommodate
what is already existing.
Fritz Benedict, concerned citizen, asked where the bike path was
going to be located in relation to the proposed project. Mr. Kane
outlined the area on the plans. Mr. Kane added that the city
still has a right of way on the Ute Ave. section of the trail.
Hunt asked where the snowmobiles that are required to be at the
bottom of the hill would be parked. Mr. Forsch said they hope to
1 imi t the number of snowmobil es that have to be at the bottom of
the hill, making the maintenance facility a hub for those activi-
ties.
Blomquist said he realized Richman had no choice, given the rules
and regulations, in coming to the recommendation of the planning
office. Blomquist said there are many houses managed by management
companies that are not part of the formula leading to the quota.
In addition there are a number of condos that have gone out of the
short term market which are also not in the quota calculations.
Going to the question of the basis of quota, are there any findings
that would alter the facts upon which Richman based his decision.
Anderson said the quota questions were to be answered at an
individual meeting, this meeting was for SPA questions.
Blomquist said he believed the quota system was deficient in that
the calculations are not based on the concept of balance, as written
in the original GMP goals. What is the balance between hotel
rooms, apartments, condominiums, houses, etc. that constitutes a
viable market response on the part of Aspen.
Blomquist said he assumed the major negative impact of skiing was
the excellent performance of winter and the poor performance of
summer, in economic terms. Blomquist asked if there was a way
this project could be converted to positively erase some of that
despairity in the economy by positively effecting the summer
9
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEETING
PLARII1ING AND 'Z ONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
economy. Blomquist felt the applicants should address the major
negative impacts as well as their desires.
Mr. Kaufman asked if the Commission was generally comfortable, at
the conceptual stage, with what was being proposed. Richman said
he felt some of the most difficult issues had not been dealt with
at this point. Richman added he would like to know from this
meeting which areas the Commission wants more information on at
the conceptual 1 evel.
Anderson expressed concern with whether the FAR is 1.8 to 1 or
.87 to 1, depending on what land area is used to calculate; the
maximum height; the open space; and parking circulation. Anderson
commented the critical issue about this SPA is that this is the
porthole to the mountain and entire community.
White said his concerns were open space, parking, and circulation
and thought more precise detail was needed in these areas.
Colombo said he thought conceptually this was an acceptable
project and could be viable to the community. His concerns were
skier drop-off, circulation of traffic in the area and interfe-
rence with Mill and Durant traffic, and pedestrian access to the
mountain through the Hunter Mall. He did not see any probl ems
that could not be overcome at the precise stage. White agreed.
Hunt agreed and added that he was hoping this plan would also
take care of some of the Aspen Mountain Master Plan parking
deficiency. Markalunas said she would like to see a commitment,
on the part of the appl icant, to a parking structure. She did
not feel the 77 spaces proposed were sufficient for a 96 unit
hotel. Tygre agreed with the concerns relating to open space,
parking, and circulation so much so that she felt they were
essential to the concept of the proj ect, the whol e idea of which
is to improve the skiers experience at the base of Little Nell.
She fel t if there was not a good sol ution to the skier drop-off
problem then the concept of the project was not being fulfilled.
Blomquist said he thought the proj ect should continue to be the
gateway to the mountain in the summer also. He thought conceptually
it should be proposed that the new lift would be opened to the top
of the mountain for summer use. In addition this would interconnect
the loop trail system at the town level with a high trail system
on Richman Hill. Anderson said he concurred with the others and
saw no problems that could not be resolved. His concern was that
the gateway was not as significant as it should be, the space
should be grand.
10
REGULAR MEETING
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLARII1ING ANn 'ZONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 6. 1985
Mr. Forsch asked what issues would be addressed at the next
meeting. Richman replied that it would be a public hearing and the
boundary change, the Growth Management question, and a list
of the concerns and conditions outlined in tonights meeting
would be addressed. Kaufman said their hope would be to have a
resolution at that point so that they can go on to City Council.
Anderson adjourned the meeting at 7:19 p.m.
~~(A)~Jr
Kim Wilhoit, Deputy City Clerk
II