Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.council.19720928 Study Session Aspen City Council September 28, 1972 / . ~^~ Meeting was called to order by Mayor Eve Homeyer at 5:10 p.m. with Councilman ROSS Griffin, Francis Whitaker, Jack Walls, Scott Nystrom and Ramona Markalunas. Also present from the Planning and Zoning Commission; Jim Adams, Jim Breasted and City/County Planner Herb Bartel. Mayor Eve Homeyer opened the study session. The general concession among the councilmen is that they don't understand the Transportation Plan. She asked each and every councilman to express his views and opinions as to this Transportation Study. Anyone who thinks that she is not for the Mall, Parking and Shuttle buses is suffering delusions. She is definately for the Transportation Plan and feels that we should be moving on the things that need to be done. William Comcowich arrived. Francis Whitaker opened the discussion with the following comments: he has concernnover the basis ofthe Transportation Plan, relative to tying in Buttermilk, Highlands and Snowmass Ski areas and HighwaF 82, is like building a 4 lane highway in sections here and there. He feels that a spare route is needed into town and also there are not enough parking spaces downtown in the Plan, and he sees no logic in making Main St. one way, as this was tried before and ~id'nt work. There is a conflict as he feels that semi-malls are impractical, with buses ~unnlng through, where it would work better having them around the circulation route as buses are one of the biggest polluters. He do~ not feel that the structured parking next to Truman's property,which will only excellerate the value of his property, is the place to put in parking. The Plan is not going f~r enough. Better to spend the money holding the automobiIe at the Thomas property of the airport. He feels that the shuttle bus is basically operating on too short a haul. Skiers will not like changing buses with their skies, which will only bring the cars back into town. We should acquire the Ri{ property now to hold for the future. We need more Rubey Parks to prevent development, buying property so as to prevent development. He has a real concern as to this plan. Herb Bartel responded to Whitaker's comments. Wondering if it was the idea of the Council to talk about parking in town this evening. The basic elements of the Plan should be discussed he felt, and not the working elements. The transportation Committee recommended the c~nter to be at the airport, and to tie the shuttle bus system in with the airterminal. PUC application with the airpOrt for limousine service, as this is a necessary component of the total Transportation system affecting Aspen. Perhaps we should dis- cuss the parking area in town. Charles Collins arrived. ~ Mayor Homeyer stated that she is opposed to a major 3 story parking structure in town. Could we not re- commend an alternative to that. She feels that surface parking could be a possibility as an interum measure. Herb Bartel said that money to be spent in parking structures was not wanted by the Transportation Comm. Jack Walls, speaking for Mr. T~uman, said Mr. Traman is not in favor of surface parking located in the heart of his development. He feels that it will have to be structured parking. The City will have to come up with the 'money for a two~ level parking structure, west Side of Mill Street on that part of his property. 1356 Study Session Aspen City Council September 28, 1972 ~ir. Truman does not care if the City wants~heir parking there or not, it is up to the City to decide, and if so, then Mr. Truman is willing to negotiate. But it will have to be decided soon for he will not wait too much longer. asked if the City could possibly lease parking spaces for 5 years. Mayor Homeyer Vic Good_hard arrived. - Herb Bartel said that the distance for the pedestrian causes a conflict. The parking located in that area would not serve the Spring St. circulation. We should some how balance parking with out losing concept of the plan. He felt that purchasing Hunter and Galena areas for parking was prior, verses the PAR property, and from there we could work i~to the airport idea. Jack Walls stated that he was concerned that parking lots are very unsightly, that the City scape should be keep pleasant to be in. We should De ide-emphasizin~ the automobile. Put underground parking in and parks on the top. This is a must to keep the auto out of sight. Jack Walls further stated that he is in favor of the parking, Malls and bus system, but that it needs some working with Herb and Voorhees. This year it needs to be done. No one can say that he is against the Plan, he is for it and vitally. William Comcowich felt that the Truman parking was not a good idea. That we are dreaming to think that we will keep the cars out of town. Nor will We discoUrage them by buying land and making it into parks~ If we are waiting for the perfect Solution~ we. Will never~have it. He felt that We should compromise, use stepping stones so to speak. He wanted to know why Wa~ner Park underground parking was discouraged. Need underground parking in the first phase. City ~owns thisland and therefore why discard this idea. Herb Bartel pointed out two disadvantages of the underground structures: (!) very expensive, almost pro- hibitive in cost and this we%Ltd .only remove 300 .ears (2) once we install an underground structure we don't have the flexability of changing it. He felt that there are other elements of the system that need looking into for consideration. The general opinion was expressed that the City needs to act on it now,.as time goes on it will be more difficult to accomplish. James Breasted said the important thing is that land is pUrchased to hold cars in the future, for land is like money in the bank. The feeling of the Planning & Zoning Committee is that money would better~ go to the acquisition of properties that the Transportation Plan indicates. Planning & Zoning never felt that a multi-level at the RRproperty would go. Jack Walls stated for Mr. Truman that he will not go for large surface parking. Franc~'Whitaker said this is the first time that the Council was aware that the P~R property would not be Suitable for parking unless it was s~ructured. He suggested the Hyde property, as this would prevent building. He also felt that the Transportation Plan is defeating itself by putting buses through the Mall area. Hyde, Ruby and Wagner were'within walking distance of the Mall area. Another idea was to divide traffic coming intotowninto two main routes, the other being the Midland right of way. Francis Whitaker at this time seemed to be pulling hfs support out of the Transportation Plan. Jack Walls pointed out that the airport wilt eliminate the touristauto, but the worse offender is the local people. Don Piper participated in the discussion, with analyzation of the PAR property, saying he was not a repre- sentative of Mr. Truman. Felt that it would be beneficial to stud~ the market research on estimates of tourists expected by 1975. P~R property is complimentary tothe Mall area, i.e.. bowling alley could be built, or such recreational facilities, and this wouldlprovide the parking spaces, as not all of them would be used by the business establishments of the Truman property, Ramona Markalunas said that the bus system was needed, and whywere the Council members playing this down. The bus system is flexable to grow to meet the needs as they grow. Francis Whitaker stated that his concern now was for the Post Office mail pick-up. Busses could circulate to the Post Offics, or ~ave a branch built on the west side of town. Again the airport property was brought into the discussion by Herb Bartel, leasing the airport limousines. Moniescould ~e invested into better service. Ross Griffin said he felt that monies should be spent on the transportation phese of the report. Once this is put into effect the structures could then be built. James Breasted felt that the user has to be a vital consideration, can't say alternative to the car is a bus every 45 minutes, this just won,t work, If the 1% is approved, devote to a high speed shuttle with frequent runningschedule, put the rest of the money into land and Malls. James Adams suggested that perhaps the shuttle bus could tie in with the skiers busses, and he would check into this. Tom ~etls bre~gh~u~ ~h~i~i~_~s ~Po~ ii,%the Transportation Committee, of opensided b~sses, as this would be an importanf factor in the workability of the shuttel bus. The skiers busses could agree on a single drop off to the inner city shuttel. The schedule could be arranged on the inner city busses, 4 busses with 6 minute intervals .between busses. William Comcowich felt that the City needed a bold plan, boldly done Malls, bold~ly done Transportation, boldly done parking, Let's spend more money, do it well in the three areas, which can be done through the bond issue. Jack Walls agreed with William Comcowich's idea of doing this boldly. Herb Bartel asked the Council if they could not all agree that a parking structure wa~ not wanted on the RR property. Asked Jack Walls if he would confer with Mr. Truman as to the possibility of a 5 year park- 1357 Study Session Aspen City Council September8, 1972 Jack Walls said that he felt that the only arrangements Mr. Truman would, want would be a indefinate leng~l% of time for leasing. This is a high density development that is working within the zoning requirements set up by the City. Francis Whitaker said that he could not adopt tb this concept. Herb Bartel felt that t.ime was being wasted on fine details, when they can not be solved at this time. Just the Plan and ideas, and later the finer points can be worked out. Like the employees car which is ~ problem. The high rates of parking would keep them out. Ramona Markalunas suggested the Thomas Property for p~king. Herb Bartel took strong exception to this. Being on the wrong end of town, if the parking was at the airport this could serve as a vital link in the Transportation Plan. A major parking area is necessary. Mayor Eve Homeyer said that she hoped.~at the Councilmen would adopt this Plan in concept, and work the details out later, It is ~mp~ative that we get this done and now. We must sell bonds at once. Fritz Benedict offered his opinion that the RR property is going to be convenient for the shopper, and screened parking lots around town was a fine idea. William Comcowich felt that the disp~sedparking lots around town will only create the problemof the motorist driving around from one to another looking for an open slot. Lets put a.program together with some meaning and value. Jack Walls said he is bothered as to the bonds committed, for there might be .great differences as to opmn- ions as to the details, other's may be dragging their feet and just not have it passed. He would l~e to see something concrete. Francis Whitaker upon being asked by the Mayor if he was in favor of the Transportation Plan said; he was for the concept of Malls and the need to replace the parking lost through the Mall, and a transportation system that will work. Bill Dunnaway asked where the parking is going to be. Mayor Homeyer suggested leased p~king until a~rport gets under way. Francis Whitaker left the Council Meeting. Mayor Eve Homeyer asked if the Council was for p~king spaces on the west end of Mill. William Comcowich left the Council meeting. Mayor Homeyer said there will be a special meeting at 5 p.m. on ~6nday to consider Thomas Property. ~e wants this Transportation Plan on the ballot, and means to have it there if the Council has to meet every night until they arrive at a plan. Tom Wells had suggested that the Hyde property could be used for flexability, and Mayor Homeyer asked that he call Mr. Hyde and find out if this ~s possible. Jack Walls asked where the Council was at on Mr. Truman's property , were they interested or not, for he was receiving two different opinions now. Mr. Truman is on a time schedule and will not wait to long. Scott Nystrom~said that apparently the Council is dead center'and will need more meetings to work this out. Bill Dunnaway said that we had paid Bob Leigh tm make this study, and he had come up with the best recom- mendations that he felt would work, and why not use this plan as a general proposal to use for the bonding issue. Mayor Eve Homeyer closed the meeting and thanked everyone for their thoughtful discussion. Meeting adjourn- ed at 7:30 p.m. ' Meeting was called to order by Mayor Eve Homeyer at 5:10 p.m. with Councilmen Ross ~riffin Francis Whitaker, Jack Walls, Scott Nystrom and Ramona Markalunas. Also present from the Planning and Zoning Commission; Jim Adams, Jim Breasted and City/County Planner Herb Barrel. Mayor Eve Homeyer opened the study session. The general consensus among the councilmen is that they don't understand the Transportation Plan. She asked each and every council- man to express his views and opinions as to this Transportation Study. Anyone who thiHks that she is not for the Mall, Par'king and Shuttle buses is suffering delusions. She is definitely fer the Transportation Plan and feels that we should be moving on the things that need to be done. William Comcowich arrived. Francis Whitaker opened the discussion with the following comments: he has concern over the basics of the Transportati~n Plan, relative to tieing in Buttermilk, Highlands and and Snowmass Ski areas and Highway 82, is lfke building a 4 lane highway in sections here and there. He feels that another route is needed into town, and he sees no logic in ma~king Hopkins Ave. one way, as this was tried before and didn't work. There is a conflict as he feels that semi-malls are impractical, with buses running through, where it would work better having them around the circulation route. He does not feel that the structured par'king next to Truman's property, which will only accellerate the value of his property, is the place to put in parking. The Plan in not going far enough. Better to spend the money holding the automobile at the Thomas Property or the airport. He feels that the shuttle bus is basically operating on too short ~ haul. Skiers will not lfke changing buses with their Skis, which will only bring the cars back into town. We should acquire the RR and Colorado Midland Right of Way now to hold for the future. We need more Rubey Parks to prevent development, buying property so as to prevent devel- opment. He has a real concern as to this plan. Herb Barrel responded to Francis Whita~ker~s comments. Wondering if it was the idea of the Council to tal'k about parking in town ~this evening. The basic elements of the Plan should be discussed he felt, and not the working elements. The Transportation Committee recommended the center to be at the airport, and to tie the shuttle bus system in with the a~r terminal. PUC application with .the ~airport for limousine service, as this is a necessary component of the total Transportation system affecting Aspen. Perhaps we should discuss the parking area in town. Charles Collins arrived. Mayor Eve Homeyer stated that she is opposed to a major 3 story parking structure in town. Could we not recommend an alternative to that. She feels that surface parking could be a possibility as an interim measure. Herb Bartel said that money to be spent in parking structures was not wanted by the Transportation Committee. Jac'k Walls, spea'king for~ Mr. Truman, said. Mr. %ruman is. not in fmvo~ of surface parking located in the heart of his. development. He feels that it will have to be structured parking. The City will have to come up with the money for a two level par~king structure, west side of Mill Street on that part of his property. Mr. Truman does not care if the City wants their parking there or not, it is up to the City to decide, and if so, then Mr. %ruman is willing to negotiate. But it will have to be decided soon for he will not wait too much longer. Mayor Homeyer asked if the City could possibly lease parking speces for 5 years. Vic Goodhard arrived. Herb Bartel said that the distance for the pedestrian causes a conflict. The parking located in that area would not ,serve ~the Spring S.t. circulation. We should so~ how balance parking without loosing concept of the Plan. He felt that purchasing ~unter and Galena areas for parking was of more importance than the RR property, and from there we could work into the airport idea. Jack Walls stated that he was concerned that parking lots are very unsightly, that the City scape should be kept. pleasing. We should be de-emphasizing the automobile by such projects as putting in underground parking with parks on the top. This is a must to keep the auto out of sight. Jack Walls further stated that he is in favor of the par'king Malls and bus system, but that it needs some wot'king with Herb and Voorhees. Th~ year it needs to be done. No one can say that he is against the Plan, he is for it and vitall~ William Comcowich felt that the Truman parking was not a good idea. That we are dream- lng to thi~k that we will keep the cars out of town. Nor will we discourage them by buying land and ma~king it into parks. .If we are waiting for the perfect solution, we will never have it. He felt that we should compromise, use stepping stones so to spea'k. He wanted to 'know why Wagner Par'k underground parking was discouraged. We need under- groun~ par'king in the first phase. County ~nes this land and therefore why discard this idea. Herb Bartel pointed out two disadvantages of the underground~structures: (1) very expen- sive, almost prohibitive in costs and this would only remove 300 cars (2) once we install a underground structure we don't have the flexibility of changing it. He felt that there are other elements of the system that need looking into for consideration. The general opinion was expressed that the City needs to act on it now, as time goes on it will be more difficult to accomplish. -- James Breasted said the important thing is that land is purchased to hold cars in the future, for land is like money in the bank. The feeling of the Planning & Zoning Cormn- ission is that money would better go to the acquisition of properties that the Transpor- tation Plan indicates. Planning & Zoning never felt that a multi-level at the RR property would go. Jack Walls stated for Mr. Truman that he will not go for large surface parking. Francis Whitaker said thy is the first time that the Council was aware that the RR pro- perty would not be suitable for parking unless it was structured. He suggested the Hyde property as this would prevent building. He also felt that the Transportation Plan is defeating itself by putting buses through the Mall area. Hyde, Rubey and Wagner were within wal'king distance to the Mall area. Another idea was to divide traffic coming in- to town into two main routes, the other being the Midland right of way. Jack Walls pointed out that the airport will elimi~a~e~~ the tourist auto, but the worst offender is the local people. Don~ Pipe= participated in the discussion, with analyzation of the RR property, saying he was not a representative of Mr. Truman. Felt that it would be benific~al to study the market research on es. timates of tourists expected by 1975. RR property is comple- mentary to the Mall area, i.e. bowling alley could be built, or such recreational fac- ilities, and this would provide the par'king spaces, as not all of them would be used by the business establishments of the Truman property. Ramona Markalunas said that the bus system was neededf"and why were the Council members playing this down. The bus system is flexible to grow to meet the needs as they grow. Francis Whitaker stated that his concern now was for the Post Office mail pick-up. He said the plan should consider P.O. traffic or all cars would still come to the P.O. Buses could circulate to the Post Office. Again the airport property was brought into the discussion by Herb Barrel, concerning - leasing the airport limousines. Mo~ies could be invested into better service. Ross Griffin said he felt that monies should be spent on the transportation phase of the report. Once this is put into effect the structures could then be built. James Breasted felt that the user has to be a vital consideration, can't say alternative to the car is a bus every 45 minutes, this won't work. If the 1% tax is approved, it could help provide for a high speed shuttle with ~frequent running schedule, put the rest of the money into land and Malls. James Adams suggested that perhaps the shuttle bus could tie in with the skiers buses, and he would check into this. Tom Wells brought up the idea that wa~proposed in the Transportation Committee, of open sided buses, as this would be an important factor in the workability of the shuttle bus. The skiers buses could agree on a single drop off to the inner city shuttle. The sched- ule could be arranged on the inner city buses, 4 buses with 6 minute intervals between buses. William Comcowich felt that the City needed a bold plan, boldly done Malls, boldly done Transportation, boldly done parking. Lets spend more money, do it well in the three areas, which can be done through the bond issue. Jack Walls agreed with William Comcowich's idea of doing this boldly. Herb Bartel as'ked the Council if they could not all agree that a parking structure was not wanted on the RR property. Asked Jack Walls if he would confer with Mr. Truman as to the possibility of a 5 year lease. Jack Walls said that he felt that the only arrangements Mr. Truman would want would be a indefinite length of time for leasing. This is a high density development that is wor'king within the zoning requirements set up by the City. Francis Whitaker said that he could not agree to this concept. 1371 Corrected Minutes of the Study Session Aspen City Council September 28, 1972 Herb Barrel felt that ~time was being wasted on fine details, when they cannot be solved at this time. Just the Plan and ideas, and later the finer points can be worked out. Like the employees car which is a problem. The high rates of parking would 'keep them out. Ramona Markalunas suggested the Thomas Property for parking.' Herb Bartel took strong exception to this. Being on the wrong end of town, if the park- ing was at the airport th~ could serve as a vital link in the Transportation Plan. A major parking area is necessary. Mayor~Eve Homeyer said that she~hoped~that the Councilmen would adopt this Plan in con- cept, and Work the details out later. It is imperative that we get this done and now. We must sell bonds at once. Fritz Benedict offered his opinion that*the RR property is going to'be convenient for the shopper, and screened parking lots around town was a fine idea. William Comcowich felt that the dispersed parking lots around town will only create the problem of the motorist driving around from one to another looking for am"~open slot. Lets put a program together with some meaning and value. Jack Walls said he is bothered as to the bonds committed, for there might be great diff- erences as to opinions as to the details, other's may be dragging their feet and just not have it passed. He would like to see something concrete. Francis Whita'ker upon'being asked by the Mayor if he was in favor of the Transportation Plan said: he was for the concept of Malls and the need to replace the parking lost through the Malt, and a transportation system that will work. Bill Dunaway asked where is the parking going to be. Mayor Homeyer suggested leased parking until airport gets under way. Francis Whitaker left the Council meeting. Mayor Homeyer asked if the Council was for parking spaces on the west side of~Mill. William.Comcowich left the Council meeting. Mayor Homeyer said-there will be a.special meeting at 5~p.m. on Monday~to consider Thomas Property. She wants this Transportation Plan~on the ballot, and means to have it there if the Council has to meet every night until they arrive at a plan. Tom Wells had sug- gested that the Hyde property coUld be used for~'flexibility, and Mayor Homeyer asked that he call M~7 Hyde'and find Out,if this is possible. Jack Walls asked where the Council was on Mr. Truman's property, were they interested or not, for he was receiving two different opinions now. Mr. Truman is on a time schedule and will not wait tOO long. Scott Nyst~om said that apparently the Council is dead center, and will need more meetings to work this out. Bill Dunaway said that we had paid Bob Leigh to make this study, and he had come up with the best recommendations that he felt would work, and why not use this plan as a general proposal to use for the bonding issue. Mayor Homeyer closed the meeting and thanked everyone for their thoughtful discussion. Meeting adjourned at 7:30 p.m. eag ng Secretary