HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19810602
.,~__~".,'<'~~~h",,~'^","'~"'____
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
1 00 Leaves
FORM \'I C. F. HOECKEL B. B./I LCD.
Regular Heeting
ASPEN PLANNING AMD ZONING COHHISSION
June 2, 1981
Hembers present included: Olof Hedstrom, Welton Anderson, Perry Harvey, Roger Hunt,
Lee Pardee, Jasmine Tygre, Al Bloomquist. ~
Hr. Olof Hedstrom brought the meeting to order at 5:00p.m.
COHHISSIONERS' COHHENTS - Erma Prodinger was present from Shawdow Hountain Neighborhood
-they want to submit a breif petiton and make a request. "Construction in area is very
disturbing... it is suppose1to be a residential area. Distances between houses are 5 or- ~O
feet apart... So many people upset." Olof ~ read the petition.
Olof Hedstrom continues meeting with the new Duplex on the South side corner of Hyman and
Garmisch (7400 sq. ft.) over 6,000 allowed. Petiton will be turned over to Planning Office.
Comments cont.- Ht. of KSNO Bldg. does it exceed? Sonny states" It is in vhe limits
--,
or Bldg. Dept would not have given a permit."
Sonny scheduled a work session for Tues.
/iil'..
June 9, 1981 5:00 p.m. for further discussion of Hanagement by objectives.
Special Meeting scheduled at that time by Mr. Hedstrom. Alan Richman suggests a meeting on
June 30. Olof agrees to special meeting on the 30th.
PUBLIC HEARING - Mill Street - Trueman Property - Use Determination
Colette- provided information and stated Planning office recommends approval of the Granting
of the Conditional Use Permit.
Sonny- background information, if the SPA plan is adopted for two uses NC and SCI.
Orig. intent - limit one to 1st fl. and one to 2nd fl. The question is "If a use is
either legally a SCI or NC use?" Commission finds that there is too much of one or the other.
Can you turn down one of those uses for location of that structure?
Paul Taddune- Cannot.
Olof Hedstrom- we must vote according to what code states, is that correct Paul?
Paul- Thats correct...I instruct the commission not to vote on the basis of disagreement
of distant codes and regulation. Nonetheless you must vote approval if certain conditions
are met.
Bloomquist- I have read both the SCI and NC and I find no offices permitted.
Colette- Conditional Use?
Welton Anderson-I move to grant the conditional use permit for a Travel Agency -t~.be ocated in
space 111 in the lower level of N. Mill Station 300 Puppy Smith St.
Perry Harvey- I second
&.egsF I ...v~ld OUPPULl".. ..L[ wv...l_h ':-~1u~~S...
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
rDRM \~ C. F. HOECKEL B. B. /I L. CD.
All in favor of I1Ption, except Al Bloomquist. Motion is carried.
Alan Richrnan- Resolution of Approval for Proposed Code Amendment - Lot Line
Adjustment Procedure and the Subdivision Exception portion
of the code. We are coming back to you with a resolution
of approval. You asked for more specific criteria for lot line
adjustment.
Al Bloomquist- this will create a condition similar to the situation where the code
"_~ says one 'tbing one place and something else in another. Amend 20-5 Grant D by addin
~'Y~~g C 201g14 - i
Paul Taddue- I agree (')
Roger- Correct record - we are~sponding to Parker Quinlen on this IjIatter.
I'll move to approve the proposed resoulution Amendments section 20-19 concernii1g
lot line movements etc. with the amendment proposed by Al Bloomquist.
All in favor
New Business- Vincenzi/ Goldstein Subdivision Exception ( Condominiumization)
Alan Richman- Request to condominize the building at 300 S. Spring at E. Hyman
to the old office zone at 6000 sq. feet it contains nine commercial units.
Located directly across from the post office (old)
Herb Paddock- The violations we are dealin with shouldn't have been allowed
unprotected openings, wiring, sprinkler system should be added etc.
guardrails out of place. severe problems with typw of constrution.
\-lelton- what code was it built under?
HerD- 1970
Welto n- What specific items were in violation
HerD-relate to courtyards and proteceted openings into exit passsage ways.
Welton- The life health safety amendment to the code was originally written
to deal pr:imarily with residential condominiums. The list Herb read off is accurate.
Olof- Remind Commission - Some issues establish policy. We must rely on Bldg.
inspector comments. Policy Decision inherent of the wording of Code ammendment.
Lee Pardee- Fire related and the cost should not be our concern but welfare of
occupants of the bldg.
Giddion- The Board of Appeals granted it permission to build the court yard.
Welton- the 00. of apppeals can grant it again.
Al Bloomquist- what the condition does is mandate the inspection if you want to
condominiumize.
Olof- Exactly
Perry- Whether we should consider the diffefence between a residential and a
corrunercial bldg. Because of added fire hazards... I would throw it out.
Does the code amendment sites any difference betwween residential and corrunercial.
O1of- What does Corrunission think about difference between corrunercail and residential
Lee- I think we shoud comply with code.
Jasmine- I agree
Roger-
Herb Paddock- With the duties of the fire Marshall theses kinds of discrepancies
would be listed as well on any fire life safety inspection.
Perry- When someone applies for condominiumization bhat a refferal would go out
to the Bldg; Dept. before the inspection. Shpuld be done prior to application
When it comes to us we have a list of the violations. and will have an agreement or
disagrrement.
Olof- I don't find any objections
Al Bloomquist- ONe of the conditions here are the applicant comply with
schedule recorrunended by Bldg. inspector. Include this automatically.
Alan Richrnan- the The conditions that are suggested for your review we suggest
approval the application.
Giddion- The pupose of the rights M first refusal in 6 mo. with peF~eRee--
the tenents in residential situations are nver intended for to be included in corrunercial
kinds of situations.. What is the purpose of granting a tenant in a corrunercial space
the right of refusal. The whole purpose of the condominiumization or related to employee
housing is to give the people who rented lo'li! income units certain benefits
Olof- I agree.
Perry- Giddion what are you tlaking about?
Giddion- Puropse for adopting that for low income housing never intended to apply to
commercial settings.
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 10 C. F. HOECKEL B. B.II L. CD.
Perry- I have no problem with the right of foirst refusal.
Olof items 4 and 5 should we strike those?
Al - Yes both
Welton- 5 out
Rogr- both out
olof- both out
Jasmine- rewrite 4 and take out fi17e.
Lee- 5 out.
Perry- strrike out keep 4 strike five.
Giddion- I have 2 other comments: The on'lif requirement of the engineering Dept.
the applicant can irrunediately construct a five wide by four inch thick concrete sidewalk
adjacent toto E. Hyman Ave. that leaves five vacant lots that are unimproved and
that are always muddy. The applicant is willing when the other property is improved
to build the sidewalks - there is any need to put the sidewalks in now leading
to five vacant lots that no one walks to .
Why put a sidewalk in that doesn't go anywhere.?
Giddion- I would like to put on the record that your refusal to revew the scope of the
Bldg. inspectors inspection whether he is exceeding his authority is in legal delegation 0:
of your power. We may have to contest that in court.
Paul- Please expound on that
Giddion- When you delegate certain authority to the bldg. inspector and then refuse to
look at what he does I think you are giving up certain of your rights. I
want to preserve my right to contest that.
As if it pertains to whether or not they are health and safety. They are not going
to look at the items the Bldg. inspector is reviewing. Whether they go outwside of
health and safety and i think that is an illegal delegation. If they choose to agree wi-
with them thats fine..
If I say to you this outside of health and safety. You dcim't have an appeal to us
Al Bloomquist- You as an applicant want to condominiumize , one of the conditions
is that you submit to an inspection. The offficer inspecting has alll the authorty
in the world.
Giddion- My point is if i feel it is outside of the scope in health and safety. you
are not even giving me an opportunity to make that argument with you.
Olof- Paul where do 'life stand?
Paul- Expain how the recorrunendations of the Bldg. inspector do not constitute health and
safety.
Lee- We are not experts in the code and we cannot overrule engineering dept.
Alan- then the board that he goes to is not P&Z.
Paul- You are making a condition of approval that the applicant complies with the
Bldg. inspectors requirements. can the applicant take your decision and appeal it.
to the board of bldg. and appleas.
I think that is is within your cognicense to determine thooe matter that are within
ypour jurisdiction and not within the bldg. depts jurisdiction. Applicant
should be given opportunity to make an argument.
O1of -
Paul- I suggest that you give applicant a chance to be heard and nojz accept as gospel
what Bldg in
Welton- My main concern is that - amendment was made to upgrade to ammeliarate
code situations. I don't think it is morally or practically reasonable to bring it
up to current coded . I want to insure there is a proper channel if applicant feels
that a condition is unfair unreasonablr, petty., with a commission or board for appeal
to at least be heard by people with that expertise to make that determination
Lee- Isn't that the board of adjustments?
Giddeon- I am hearing for the first time what is applicable and what isn't. I need
ahody such as yourself to hear my appeal. I am trying to set a president here so
that if my client feels that something is outside of health safety and welfare
Welton- this board does not ~fte have the background
Olof-We have two things here: lOur obligation to here his exception
If he wishes to make an appeal
Paul- I advise you at that time that Giddion makes his arguments as to whether it is
in your jurisdiction or whether it is in the cognicensece of the Bldg. Dept.thererfore
we should appleal to the Ed. of
appeals.
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM II C.F.HOECKELB.B.aL.CD.
Olof- We are going to table this
Al Bloomquist- You have now inspected the Bldg. U.e-- You have determined there
are five or six violations of the code. What is your responsibility under the law
whether or not condominiumization proceeds.
Herb- My responsibility under the law is to see that hose corrections are made at whatever
time and fashion I deem to be resonable.
Al- By the mere act of condominiumization you put your client in jeapardy whether or not
he continues.
Lee- It is not a question of condominiumization- they are not up to code and they have to be.
Paul- If Giddion has objections then I suggest that he make them to you.
Giddeon- I would like to table until the next meeting
Olof- I Make a motion to table action on the Vinenzi/Goldsteein Subdivision exception.
( Condominiumization) application at the applicants request. to the next regual meeti-g
of the P&Z.Roger- I 2nd the motion.
All in favor
Bill Dunaway- May I ask Paul a question? When the Bd. of appeals and examiners
several years ago when many bldgs were built they felt it was in the public interst
to give them code variances to permit ...
Paul- I would that those varieances are binding upon the Blg center in that the violation
which were given do not constitute violations.
Herb- They can't approve alternatemeans of environmental safety.
Perry-
Roger- excused from meeting
OLof- Vincent Buildin Co. Subdivision Rxce tion Condominiumization
Alan Richman- Purposes of Condominiumzing a duplex which has been built on this
lot right adjcent to this lot which just recently approved a GMP application to build
one new unit Eng dept comments tha the applicant should revise and submit plans
indicated in amemorandum that some of the items that need provision second- question
about parking during site inspection. ppm applicant should provide electrical communicatic
easment for SE corner of parcel. 6mo. minimun lease clause.
Planning aft~-g office recommends approval of the request for condominiumization
Lee- We are reqquired six monthminimun lease but we are not concerned about
loss of any employee units. What was there before this was built.
Giddion- brand new duplesx
L-- we might have aproblem with the restricted unit.If it was a house we need to find
out what was rent, how many sq. feet does it fit within employee guidelines.
Olof-Make a motion - Until it is determined it s a house and rental history
Lee- 2nd
all in favor the motion is carried.
C. Mill Street Shopping Plaza- Exempttion from GMP- Special Resview for Parking
Collette- Allotment for ~5Tge-s~~~et20,500 sq ft fe~-~fte-a~~~~~eft of new Kommer cial
space in addition to the retention of 6500 sq ft. of existing space. Three employee
apartments were included in the plan. One unit in the plan was substandard size.
HPC approved the new design.
Lee- I don't think HPC is the proper body to say that thjs meets the GM allocations
Colette- It doesn't change the sq. footage. ~fte The changes result in having bigger
employeee units and having ]6 sq ft as a decrease.
Lee- I object to HPC being able to change almost anything when their concern is
with design.
OLof- It is an evaluation that someone is making on a change of what was. Objecti ion i
that we went to a procedure all these things. How much can they change it.
Who decided?
Lee- What is the amswer to all those questions? What is the fine line between minor accept
change in something that is major enough nad reevaluate under a GMP procedure.
Olof- I am concerned about procedures.
Dunaway- What does the code say?
Welton- I just want to make a point-inal the GmP applications that we have gotten
not one of the buildings that have been built has shown any resemblance to what was in
the fancy smancy.
Sonny- Let me explain the process.
You receive an allocation based on score. You score the project based on certain su
subsidy hearings baed mn the code. Any
subsitive changes that would have
any change in
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM!O C.F.HOECKELB.B./ltL.CD.
essential part that would have affected the score goes straight to City Council for
recommendation, Council then can decide that the applicant has changed it in such a fashion
that its quo,s is no longer valid they can send it to P&Z to have you rescore it
in the opinion that it needs to be rescored. Or can otherwise pass it up.
Lee- Has it ever happened?
Sunny- Yes, it is an ad ministrative decision on behalf of the planning office as to
whether or not the scoring would have been changed. In the case as to whether
or not the original structure was retained or torn down, was not something this body
scored, but something that was taken into consideration by HPC.
HPC determined that it would not have affected the score that they allocated to it.
Therefore there was no reason to send it to Council.
The employee units did not meet the minimun size requirements. External changes in the
architecture were needed to meet the requirements.
You should score on the commercial, it is scored by HPC and that is added into the total.
Lee- We vote on design
Sunny- Not on the actual design of the building itsel f.
Welton- We had at least three sections where architectural design was voted on.
Dunaway- This is the application where P&Z only approved 1/2 of it.
Sunny- Right and you recommended that the bonus not be given, Council overode it.
Sunny- There are two categories. There were no major architectural changes, no increase
insq. footage.
Jasmine- there is an increase in sq. footage.
Lee- Here is somebody coming in with sub standard this and that.
Olof- we are not permitted to approve subject to changes. If the application is flawed
Sunny- the only way to get subsequent approval. Deed restriction exempeted tftem
employee housing to meet the minimum size reqqiuement.
Jasmine- Now he is coming in and saying in order for us to do this we need 6 more ft.
Sunny- Sq. footage
Jasmine- It is still aprt of that same building.
Colette- The exterior building isn't going to take up more space.
iI..sm4fte-----
Olof- The total is no 16 feet less. WE have two things: We have the general concern
that htere are so many approvals of GMP that Totally aside from general considerations
I think Collette has made clear that in actuality by shuffly the interior we end up with
16 sq. less than was approved
Collette- Less commercial space but 86 sq. ft. overall because thr employee housing is
bigger.
Olof- The question is whether that is significant?
AlBloomquist- This is actually theml the with of the dry wall
Lee- the concern I am expeessing is nothing to do with 86ft. It has to do with . You
could make 200 ft. less and make it much more objectionle to us in design...
Olof- Let's proceed
Collette- cont. with recommensation. They also have to go for approval of exemption
for parking requirments as such areview - Planning office recommends you do. The housing
units in a CC zone. We also recommend exemption for GM in this project.
We recommend that they keep them at low or moderate income categories. Low is preference.
Olof- Questions?
Paul- Apparently there was a discusion betwween the sttorney for the applicant and the
planning office. The attorney for the applicant is under the imlresssin that there iwll be
no problem with the commission accepting the recommendation of the planning dept.
I theink the attorney for the applicant should have an opportunityh to heard. The
application should be tabled to allow Mr. Massa the cahnce to..
Lee- Why isn't he here? This should be taken off the agenda
Al- I think the staff should never say no problem.
Paul- I would suggest that your concerns have been expressed here today and that they
be taken in tacct. for purposes of future reference. We should be accomodating to the
applicant.
Olof- No, I think it is before us and we act on it.
Paul- If you are going to disapprove it- I'd like to give the applicant
Olof- Let's act make a motion
Al - I move its approvaal with the two provisions that the palnning office recommendations
Dunaway- Which level housing?
Al-- At low.
Olof- Recommending approval of the 5 to 1 FAR bonus for employee housing anM exemption from
GMP
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORMIC C.F.HOECKElB.O.&L.CO.
0101- What about parking- exemption from parking requirements?
Al- Whatever they wrote
Jasmine- Can we time the parking to low low income guideline-
Al- we are requiring low period
Olof- I would rather keep exemptions and parking requirements separete... require the
low income category wmployee housing simply because the is the most urgent need of the
community.
Motioned was seconded.
All in favor - Lee- I
Olof- I
Jasmine- I
Al- I
Perry...- I
Welton - I
Olof- Motion is carried.Next subject
Behrendt Subdivision exception
Colette ( for purposes. of a lot split) Lots KL & M on which theres a sister lodge and
swimming Lots N&O.
Giddion- This has nothing to do with condominiumzation.
Colette- What we have are: five contiguous lots owned by the same party. They were
merged and became one parcel. Legal council would like Dor the applicants sake to keep
the two lots the sizes of 6000 sq. ft. and 9000 sq. ft. The planning office recommends
approval of the lot split conditionedupon the granting of an easement on the S.E.
l5to 28' from the N. Easternly corner of that section of the structure along the new
ly put lined lot- li~e.of 1.4 ft. So that hte minimum side yard of 5 ft. ifs maintined
and the non-conforming is not ncreased. In addition a covenant should be attached
with a commitment from the owner not to build. within five feet of that easemnet
so that we don't get a nonconforming on the other side. A seconde condition should be that
if either of tfteK-- present nonconforming uses sease to exist for any reasons for a
period of one year any subsequent uses of the land must conform with regulations specified
by the code for the R-6 zone.
Sunny- You cannot sj:bs.idize unless you have the right to build. In this case there
is no develope right left=
Lee- my concern is ...Lot split procedurre demonstrates hardship
Syuny - since no developement allocation is required nothing precludes that the subdision
itself other than the application of the B~~t~it/.....zone district with subdivision
regulations. The prexisting lot line . enginerrijg dept. does not feel it is nexcesaary
they go thru full subdision procedures. It just eliminates one step in the process.
Lee- He doesn't get any deveopement rights what does that mean?
Sunny- He has to comply with use restrictions.
Parryy- Your talking about something that isn't enforced then.
Sunny- Any lot created afteer growth management has an exemption- only single family
which has a right to built.
Al- I assume that roughly he had the St. Moritz first
Giddion- No- it was purchased in 1972 & 1974 he purchased the two properties
no sorry 1968 & 1973.
Al- now there is a provision in the code that if you have a nonconforming , in terms of
density.
Giddion- the point is that both of these properties are non conforming uses , there is
not enough density for either use.
Al- thata a single use
Giddion- There is not enough density.
Olof- tell me what...
Giddion- When the applicant purchased property he bought it as two separte properties
at that particular time there was ho merger "document". He has two separte mortgages
on the property o. He wants to refinance, in this particularmarket the lenders are not int,
erested in granting him fimancing with a separete buildings because under this particular
provision he technically has one piece of property, So what we are trying to do is
recreated the two separte paropertys the way they were when he purchased them so he can get
separte financing without running into the problem he is now.
Sunny- The cpndominization of the lodge has nothing to do wtih question. You cancondomini
a legal use or a nonconfor-ing use regardleess of whether it is a loge commercial space or
The subdivision in no way effects condominization.
Olof - request a motion
Giddion- the loans on the p
roperty are secured by hou
ses and lot sizes
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 10 C. F. ~OECKEL B. B. Ii L. CD.
iddion cont.- of 6000 sq ft and 9000 sq ft. WE traditionlly in this community have lots
3000 6000 9000 I don't see any need to change that. There is alot of density
here why reduce it.
Collette- Engineering prefers we grant an easement.
Giddion- The lot has to stay 600 sq ft. because that is the minimum lot rrquirement in
the R-6 zone.
Welton- it would be 6l40sq ft with 1.4 sq ft. of this lot.
Colette- the other consideration is the easement is only for15.8 ft.
Al- 24 12.6 no 12.4 If two or more lots with continuous frontage and single ownership
Sunny- this subdision not zoning.
Parry- I move to recommend approval of the Behrent subdivision exception for the
purpose of splitting lots KL&M from lots N&O Lot 46 City of Aspen Conditional upon
the granting of an easement from S. Easternly corner of the house 15.8 ft to the n. Eastern:
corner of that section of the structure along the newly outlined lot line of 1.4 ft so
that the minimun side yard of 5 ft. is maintained and nonconformity is not increased
condition a covenant shoulf be attached with a commitment from the owner not
to build within five ft og that easement on lot N. Second condition shall be
that if either of the present non conforming uses ceases to exist for any reason for a
period of more than one year in subsequent use of the land shall conform to the regulation
specified by the code for the R-6 zone.
Welton- i second
All in favor Olof- I
Parry- I
Jasmine- I
Welton- I
Lee Lee- I
Al- Neigh
Olof- Motion is carried
Brandtm Subdivision exception ( condominimuzation)
Collette- Mr. and Mrs. Brandt are requesting ~ubdision exception pursuant section 20-19
for puposess of condomizing a duplex. At present there is a single family dwelling structt
and an unbuilt purposed addition. The Planning office recommendation is approval of
the request for subdivision exception subject to following conditions
1. Submission of condominium plate showing each unit common elements parking etc to be Sil
signed and recored following construction of the secong unit
2. Deed restrictions on.. six month minimum leases...
Mr Brandt-Diagram ~or purposed second unit was merely for illustration
Olof- does any onyone objections to the twp position s of the planning office recommendat:
Any question s from the planning pffice.
May we have amotion
Parry- I will move to recommend approval of _the Brandt Subdivision Exception for Condominil
zation of Lot 10 Blk. 1. Commission will upon the submission of the condominium map
showing each unit common elements , Parking, etc. to signed in the code following
construction of the second unit and Deed restrictions on both halfs of the Duplex
to six month tendencies with no more than per year.
Lee- Second
Olof- I-
Welton- I
Jasmine- I
Parry- I
Al- I
Dmof- ~he Motion is carried.
The meeting is adjourned.