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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19821012 RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves fORM," C.F.HOECKFlB.B.8tL.CO. PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION OCTOBER 12, 1982 The Planning and Zoning Commission met for a special meeting on Oct. 12, 1982 in the Engineering Offices on the 3rd floor of City Hall. Perry Harvey called the meeting to order with members Roger Hunt, welton Anderson, Jasmine Tygre, Pat Fallin, and Al Blomquist present. Perry Harvey said that the P&Z members are meeting because Ordinance 50 and the P&Z Bi-laws are in direct conflict. Harvey said that Ordinance 50 in time is the controlling document and it says that a Board member can appear to represent anyone or himself accept in front of their own Board. Harvey said that the P&Z Bi-laws say if the Board . member declares the conflict, step down, you can represent yourself, and it also says that you can be a member of a firm that represents a client but you can't reresent the applicant. Harvey feels that the P&Z members should have the same rights as any other the community; and that is a right as a Commission member or an obligation declare a conflict when it exists and then step down and have the right to resent yourself or someone else. Hunt agrees, Anderson agrees and Tygre agrees. ~rson said that what the problem seems to be centered around is that that ordinance is there to avoid the appearance of inpropriety. Harvey saidthat the P&Z Bi-laws should be re-written. Ro~er Hlmt thinks that the P&Z members should also go for a modification of the ordinance. Barvey thinks this Resolution should be sent Perry Harvey tried to break ExParte contacts 1) a simple contact with someone where there which requires no action. 2) ExParte contact would be a contact with a applicant or his direct representative with knowledge of a matter but without discussion related to the specific matter. 3) contact when specific business pending before the discussion is discussed and or debated. (Contact of this degree must be disclosed to the Commission prior to consideration of the matter and depending on the next grade may require the official to remove him or herself from a possiton of influence.) 4) Impermissable ExParte contact, which is a contact with an applicant or his direct representative or with another individual or group which impairs a members ability to impartially consider a pending matter. A member must disclose such contact but need not elaborate and must remove him or herself from a position of influence. Harvey said that all of this relys on the integrity and the honesty of any member. Welton Anderson said that there is a gray area in the first case of some one saying I've got this great idea for a project, it can be very innocent if you say "Go up to the planning office and they will help you with the steps" Anderson said that there are variaous degrees between saying "Do it this way it lIi!1 fly" or "It won't fly". Harvey said that is where we get into the area of the integrity of the people. Harvey said that in talking about the conflict of inter set and Ex Parte contact, the only difference is that the Conflict of interest is what can grow out of Ex Parte contact or can grow out of the aeighborhood you live in or the type of building you live in or your business or whatever. Roger Hunt said that in r~ard to the neighborhood lets take up a hypothesis here: - . Hunt lives in an R-b zone, my next door neighbor or within 300 yards wants to rezone itciJ[-2 Lodge, which is a horrible extreme example, well O.K. Hunt is on the P&Z, he lives in R-6, he lives within 300 feet, Hunt does aot see where that should exclude him from sitting on the P&Z because he would be violently against a lodge within 300 feet of the R-6 zone where he livea. Hunt has a feeling that the Board would want to call that a conflict and he doesn't see that as a conflict. Jasmine Tv~rp thinks that it would be a conflict. ~l Blomquist said that Gary Esary ruled against him on that when he was going to step down on an issue. Harvey said that if the guy next to Hunts place wanted to re-zoning to Lodge and ~ wanted him to get it because it would increase the value of his property. Jasmine Tygre said that what she thinks happens in a situation in which someone has received official notice, as an interested party, your interests, regardless of whethe you are in favor of or opposed to the project has already been established. of member to rep- to Council. into four categories; is no discussion of anything pending ...._..._,IIIII.IIIiII....,"....III1,d.._.'.., . , To Tygre conflict of interest is that you cannot have two interest; you cannot be an interested land owner in that officcial notication and an official member of the P&Z at the same time. Hunt said that extend1~gs that igea, literally, anyone in the Real Estate business in this community probably shouldn't get involved in zoning changes. Welton Anderson questioned; or anyone that has any knowledge of Architecture shouldn't be involved? Harvey said that one of the premises that the Board members sort of accepted is that the Board members are chosen for backgrounds and knowledge in areas... lhll1t said that there is a conflict; for example, you being in the Real Estate business, just take timesharing as an example,where all this money is to be made in the marketing aspect of time sharing, you as a realator maybe should not sit on the Board judging whether that should pass or not Al Blomquist said that the members should stick to the Ordinance, that the conflict of inter set is when you are temporarily involved. Blomquist said that the ordinance should be changed, however so that it doesn't hurt Welton Anderson. Blomquist said that the biggest problem that he has is with the Ex Parte in, when is the Board legislative in planning and when are they quasijudicial. ~arvey said that he didi not see what a consistency doctrine is going to do in terms of solving and clarifying what the officials do and what is a Ex Parte contact. Al Blomquist said that the Consistency Doctrine is very useful if adopted locally. Blomquist said that what happens is that the plan becomes the reason, say the bias, in other words as far as the warehouse is concerned, screwing up the flood way and all of this, now if those are his reasons and Blomquist becomes involved in carrying out the plan that is different than if Blomquist is Hunt and he is defending his household turf and doing this for a personal reason. Harvey said that the way he looks at it is the way you avoid that kind of thing is make use of the planning staff for your conduit for information and facts, in other words raise the issue with them about the matter. Harvey said that as soon as a matter is officially filed as an application the planning office has to have it. Harvey said that Alan Richaman said that when he finds out abou a project or something going on he goes to the applicant to get the plans and find out what is happening, what Harvey is saying is that when you find out about a project and advance like that there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to see a list of projects that have applied for growth management on Sept. 1 when we could consider it D Oct. but what he is saying to avoid that contact, is that is what the planning office and staff is for in terms of the P&Z's position. Welton Anderson said that he would like to get back to the point of Harvey and himself and Pardee and other people representing clients in front of your own Commission. It seems like the critical question is avoiding the occurance of impropriity, if we want to change that section of the Code, we should come up with some positive vehicle for at least legally or for the record establishing interest. Anderson said that he is not sure there is any way of satisfying everbody in the community. Anderson would like to see something that will work as far as..redrafting that part of the Ordinance. Gideon Kaufman asked if he could say something since his memo on Al sort of brought some of this to light, it seems to Kaufman thaT there is a difference here between a Planning and Zoning Commission member wanting to become knowledgable and then serving as a conduit for the opposition for one side or one team or being very actively involved. Kaufman thinks that a P&Z member clearly has the ability to acquire into facts and information and if you leave that at inquiry and then raise those concerns at a Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, then Kaufman doesn't think anyone has a problem with that. Kaufman thinks that the second step of trying to "mustar" support or opposition on one side for a project, to him is the troublesome situation. Harvey said that it is hard for the P&Z too, because you look at something and you are going to have a reaction to it. Al Blomquist is saying as a planner who has read the statutes that it is time no to get a consistency doctrine going. Pat Fallin said that she agrees with that and that it is going to take some time. Kaufman said that he would like to point out. that some of Perry's suggestions are very good on the ExParte thing, because r~ufman thinks that one of the things this community has neglected in the past is the reality of a small community Harvey said that on the conflict of interest, the Board should come up with certain specifics that they can agree on as creating a conflict. Harvey said that Ordinance 50, which is the defining conflict of interest and outlining the action to take, it talks about an interest means and includes a situation where substantial concooniary benefit may acrue either directly or indirectly to a City Council member or City official as a result of a contract or tranaction which is or may be the subject of an official act. Dollars, is the first definition and then they exclude such son tracts or transactions which by their terms and by their substance confer similar benefits to all persons or properties similarly situated. Harvey said they were talking earlier about the lodge and if the guy was trying to get four blocks rezoned lodge then that would be a big enough class so it wouldn't be a conflict but it would be under the money deal problem...do we want to do that? How does that language sound. " ,; '-" .- . . RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves FORM o~ C. F. IIOECKEl 8. a. II L CJ. PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION OCTOBER 12, 1982 - 3 - Perry Harvey defines some indirect interests which is also a conflict; When a City Council member or City official 10 is related in the first degree by blood or marriage to a person who has a direct interest or 2) is an executive officer or director in a business that has a direct interest or 3) controls or has a stong voice in the control of the business that has a diect interest or 4) has a substantial contract or a aseries of contracts with the person that has a direct interest. Harvey said that the whole definition here is strictly in terms of monetary benefit. Roger Hunt said but it says substantial though and that is an awful "hook-word" Al Blomquist but the word substantial is not used in Sec. three. Roger Hunt said take for example with him; Hunt said that by this he should never jndg, anything that the Ski Company comes up with because he gets a complimentary pass from the Ski Co. for servicing restaurants on the mountain. Perry Harvey said that the other areas that we mayor may not want to deal with is the question of personal relationship, here it is simply defined as a direct interest. Which would mean that AI's case on the GMP application there is no monetary benefit accrueing through his wife so therefore....what is your feeling on that? Al Blomquist said the Board should correc the sentence in the Ordiance dealing with Welton Anderson. Perry Harvey said that their Bi-laws define a conflict of interest as saying a conflict of interest occurs when a member of the Commisssion is associated personally and or is a business partner, employee, advisor or has other relationships in the matter before the Commission or is himself the applicant or has been determined by majority vote of the commission the conflict exists, as a result of the conflict interest the member shall declare such interest, need not elaborate in detail the member shall ten remove himself physically from the Commisssion and may join the audience or leave the meeting room the member may then act for or as the applicant speaking only when recognized by the Commission chairman. Members of the conflict of interest shall abstain from all voting in a matter in which it has been declared a conflict exists. Harvey said that he thinks the Board is in agreement that the langu- age that fro where it starts as a result of a conflict of interest what a member can do. Do we want to change the Bi-laws to reflect the language defining conflict of interest as it is in the Ordinance? Jasmine Tygre said yes. Pat Fallin said yes. Al Biomqu~st objects to this. Blomquist thinks that it is bad to have two things treating the same subject just one slight nuance. Perry Harvey said that there is a little bit of a difference, the Planning and Zoning Bi-Laws are the Board's Bi-Laws, the Ordinance covers City Council, City Officials, and many other Boards. Jasmine Tygre~aid that she thinks it is a definition and perfectly permissable. Perry Harvey said that he would like to recommend that they change the Ordinance and we will give them the language that we intend to insert in the Bi-Laws and see what happens. Roger Hunt said that in the Ordinance it should state that the conflict of interest is. Gideon Kaufman said that the P&Z is much better off if they can organize their own rules and regulations than having to convince the Council. Perry Harvey said that what the P&Z needs to do is a Resolution to Council that Planning and Zoning. has the right to adopt its own Bi-Laws and be governed by them. Welton Anderson said that he would rather see. taking essentially the language that in the Bi-Laws and strengthening it up by Haying that a member of the Commission that makes application for applying himself... Perry Harvey said that it should be written as subject to the rights and restrictions that any other citizen has, which is the right to avoid Ex Parte contact with Commission members and the right to make the presentation. Harvey said that he thinks if the Board adds the greater definition on Ex Parte and then if they take the Ordinances language on the definition of a conflict of interest and just try and change the procedure in the Ordinance so it conforms to what the Bi-Laws Ray then as far as Council is concerned... Al Blomquist said that it would help in the Bi-Laws if every in other words exemptions, GMP scoring Etc., they are listed either legislative or quasijudicial. Basicly when the Board for P&Z then, this is what action that the and the Board's votes on a Zone P&Z takes reply is change ....-,-,~.- - 4 - thats legislative, apparently the Board is quasijudicial only when we are terminal authority and that occurs someplace in the preliminary plat. Blomquist thinks that should be declined so that if a conflict of interest cannot occur at any time, but Ex Parte contact can occur in the legislative process. Jasmine Tygre said that she didn't think you could limit conflict of interest solely to money changing hands Al Blomquist gives and example of his personal inbuilt prejudice about rivers and water ways (because of a flood he was in in Pueblo in 1965) Perry Harvey said th at the Board has a specific vehicle for that and that is a stream margin review. Harvey said that if he won't vote for any project even though it has satisfied all the conditions of that specific application then if he has a real conflict with that or philisophical prejudice one way or the other... Harvey said this could be "what iffed to death" so does someone have a motion to adj ourn. Welton Anderson moves to adjourn. Pat Fallin seconds. All in favor. Motion carried. ~A~~ V' ginia . Beall Deputy City Clerk . -.....