HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19831206
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning commission
December 6, 1983
fORM ~o C_ F. HOECKH B. a. fi L. CD.
Chairman Perry Harvey called the meeting to order at 5:05 p.m. with members
Jasmine Tygre, Pat Fallin, Welton Anderson, Lee Pardee, David White, and
Paul Sheldon present.
Commissioners
Comments
Nicholson -
Change in Use
Hunt told the Board he has been informed by the Assistant
Chief of Police that signs are coming for parking on the
south side of city hall
Colette Penne, planning office, told P & Z this is located
in the 0, office zone, it is the Park Central West. The
request is to change unit 101 from office to a one-bedroom
residential units. This meets the criteris for exemption to
be in existence for two years. Ms. Penne said the conversion
should not result in any increased traffic, or water, sewer,
police and fire protection requirements.
Ms. Penne said the office space accommodated six people.
This will be a one bedroom unit occupied full time. One of
the conditions is thgt 15 parking space be reinstated on
the site. There are 11 spaces currently, and there is room
for 16. The park dedication fee will have to be paid and
covenants should be drafted to indicate this has gone through
a change in use. Harve asked if the condominium association
has approved this request. Al Nicholson said the change in
use will not be effective until it has been approved by the
condominium association.
Hunt moved to approve change in use of the Park Central West
building from office use to residential use for unit 101 with
the conditions in the planning office memorandum of
December 6, 1983; seconded by Anderson. All in favor, motion
carried.
Resolution -
Growth Manage- Alan Richman, planning office, presented a resolution and
ment Policy Planrecommended P & Z approve it and recommend to Council this
Update intent to adopt this. If Council approves it, it will
come back to P & Z for adoption Richman told P & Z the
language is essentially the same as in October. There have
been some minor changes that came out of the growth manage-
ment policy forum. Richman said one of the things he heard
in the forum was that P & Z should be doing something as
a residential environment.
Aspen Mountain
Lodge -
Additional
Review
Requirements
Sheldon said he feels this is a thorough condensation of a
lot of information. Hunt pointed out there is a shortage
of transportation related information in this. Richman
said these are growth goals and objectives. Richman said
the transportation planning will be part of P & z's
discussion early 1984 and it is being worked on by staff.
Anderson moved to adopt Resolution 83-13 stating P & Z's
intent to adopt it and forwarding same to Council requesting
them to endorse and comment on the goals, objectives and
policies and refer comments back to P & Z; seconded by
Ms. Fallin. All in favor, motion carried.
Sunny Vann, planning director, reminded P & Z they had
started to discuss the additional review requirements for
this project; the public hearings on the two rezoning
requests, review requirements on the PUD subdivision
request, exemptions from GMP for employee housing. The
only item disposed of at the last meeting was to turn down
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REgular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
December 6, 1983
rezoning request from L-l to CL. The planning office requested additional
information the the land located on Ute avenue the application is requesting
to be rezoned from R-15 to R-6RBO. There are still some concerns in the
planning office, and the applicant has requested this be tabled. Nothing
requires the P & Z to consider the rezoning at this time. The applicant is
eligible for GMP allocations. Anderson said at the last meeting there was
some public input about located that many units on Ute avenue. This problem
will take a great deal of work.
Harvey re-opened the public hearing on the rezoning from R-15 to R-6/RBO on
Ute Avenue.
1. Wright Hugus, attorney for Lyle Reeder, said he has no objections to
tabling assuming there is a good faith effort to meet with the neighbors
or determine an alternate site.
2. Norma Dolle, resident in the area, said she is concerned because this is
a small piece of property. Ute Cemetery back up on the site. Ms. Dolle aske(
if Silverking phase IV will be developed, and are there other places for
employee housing. Ms. Dolle questioned the absolute need for employee hous-
ing in an area which is already overcrowded.
3. Bob Hughes, representing adjacent property owners, who object to the
application in the current form but will not object to tabling as long as
they can work with the applicants.
Harvey continued the public hearing.
Harvey asked if the applicant has plans to meet with the neighborhood to
hear their concerns and to respond. Doremus said no plans have been made,
but they will.
Anderson moved to table the rezoning from R-15 to R-6/RBO for 7.5 acres site
on Ute avenue to the first regular meeting in January with the condition
that the city re-publish notice and that the applicant has agreed to bear
the cost, and that if the applicant comes back in for further consideration
of this rezoning request, that they have meet with the neighborhood repre-
sentatives to hear their concerns; seconded by Ms. Fallin.
Hunt said the applicant is not getting the benefit of the P & Z's concerns.
One of the reasons this site was approved for employee housing for Little
Annie was that the applicant was going to improve Ute avenue. Historically
Ute avenue has stayed as a pristine street without much load on it. Vann
said the applicant's have inquired about meeting with P & Z in a work
session to discuss the Board's concerns before the next hearing. This
application needs to be moved forward to deal with the code requirements to
give out the quota allocation prior to the end of the year.
All in favor, motion carried.
Vann said the remaining issues for the lodge portion of this request do not
require public hearing. Some of the issues are final action by P & Z and
some by Council. P & Z has not addressed: the issues of architecturaLk
desing and impacts. Outstanding issues are request for exemption of the
employee housing project on Ute; the rezoning has been tabled, so this should
be discussed after the rezoning action. Other GMP exemptions being requested
cover two existing structures to be deed restricted for employee housing.
These conversions will require change in use determination. The other issue
the P & Z must decide is that of multi-year allocations. At the last meeting,
the staff presented the pros and cons of this issue. The final item is to
review the conditions the planning office has suggested and direct staff to
prepare a resolution so that this item can be forwarded to City Council.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM ~1 C" F. H O~Cj( EL B. 8. !I l. CO.
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
-3-
December 6, 1983
Vann addressed the change in use for employee housing, the solution to the
lodge portion of the GMP is a three phased approach. As part of the GMP
application, the applicant proposed to house 60 - 63 per cent of the net
increase in employees generated by the lodge. The proposal is to do it at
the Alpina Haus, which is zoned RMF with 44 units to be deed restricted
employee housing, and the Copper Horse, which is L-3 and has 14 units.
These two parcels would house half the employees generated. The remaining
employees would be housed on the Benedict site, if rezoned and would have
50 units. The applicant is trying to house a variety of employees in
varying different configurations.
The conversion of the Copper Horse from L-3 to deed restricted housing would
invoke the change in use provision, which requires P & Z to find the appli-
cant has mitigated or there are negligible impacts in terms of growth in
the community. Vann said the planning office feels the conversion to deed
restricted housing is consistent with change in use, the would be reducing
existing occupancy by 10 people. Harvey asked about the parking. Vann said
the parking is sub-standard or non-conforming. The planning office would
suggested a condition be that the parking not be reduced below what exists
and that the applicant explore ways to supplement parking on-site.
Vann said since the last meeting with the P & Z, the staff has additional
information on the Alpina Haus. The Alpina Haus is zoned RMF and some of
its units were deed restricted already for other approvals as employee units
for the Woodstone. Vann said there is some question as to whether the
Alpina Haus is operated short term accommodations or long term. If the
Alpina Haus is going from short term to deed restricted units, it would be
subject to the change in use provisions. If the P & Z finds it is a long
term multi family use, then the existing units may not be required for
change in use.
Harvey asked the current status of the Alpina Haus. Alan Richman said in
the short term accommodations report of 1982, they reported themselves as
a lodge. Vann said if this is converted to employee housing, it is a
community benefit because housing is being met without increasing buildings.
There is an impact on parking. Joe Wells told P & Z there are 10 - 15
spaces on site, which the applicant would commit to maintain.
Sheldon said he would like to see numbers of how many low priced lodge beds
there are in the lodging inventory and what percentage are less that $25
per night, and how many or what percentage are being removed by the reques"t
for change in use. Sheldon said this be taken into consideration because
the change in use is changing the profile of the lodging community be
removing low income beds and replacing them with high income beds. Ms. F
Fallin asked if the Copper Horse were weekly or seasonal rental. Sheldon
said they are nightly during the season, weekly, monthly in other parts
of the year.
Anderson said he feels the Copper Horse and Alpina Haus historically have
served a segment that is important to Aspen and are not appropriate for
conversion to employee housing. Anderson said he would like the applicant
to come up with an alternative to house employees for this proposal. Pardee
disagreed and pointed out the P & Z has tried to disperse employee housing
throughout the community. This proposal is a chance to do that, and Pardee
is in favor of this. The impact of this change is use is parking, and
there will be fewer people at this site.
Harvey asked to find out what percent of the low income market these two
conversions would be. Anderson said he does not want to see a cut off in
the low end to supplement the high end of the market. Sheldon guessed
the Copper Horse might represent as much as 25 per cent of the dorms beds
in Aspen. Ms. Tygre pointed out in the existing lodge rooms of Blue Spruce,
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Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Comlnission
December 6, 1983
Continental, and Aspen Inn, there was a variable pricing structure and some
of the rooms were not so great. Ms. Tygre said the loss of cheap hotel
rooms has to be factored in. One of the issues is value perceived and
received for what a person is spending. There should be rooms available
for the person who does not have a lot of money.
Vann said the Alpina Haus is zoned ffi~, and they could chose to rent to
employees long term without a deed restriction. The applicant: is requesting
a deed restriction. Vann said the criteria for change in use findings, the
applicant must demonstrate that the change in use will result in negligible
growth impacts on the community. One of these is an activity that will
result in an increase in employee housing, these are becoming employee
housing. Another is increase in parking, traffic, water, sewer, drainage
etc. The impact on lodging is not specifically addressed as a criteria in
the change in use exemption.
Harvey suggested giving the applicant specific informational needs and
direction from P & Z. Harvey listed current pricing on the lodge rooms at
these two places, what percentage that represents of comparable priced
pillows in the lodging comlTIuni ty. Anderson said these two facilities
fulfill a worthwhile function in Aspen for tourists. Anderson said he would
like to see some other facilities in the estate used for employee housing;
there should be some other options.
Pardee said P & Z made a strong stand on employee housing. The cOlTImunity
wants it. The P & Z has encouraged it to be dispersed throughout the
community. The applicant is proposing to take some exising lodge units and
convert them -to employee housing. Pardee sa.id the P & Z has to take a
st.ep in order to get employee housing that is a benefit. to the community.
Pardee said no one can make a perfect project.
Lee Miller said the lodging community has had the finger pointed at it
because of the lack of quality. Here is the opportunity to take two lower
end lodges and get the benefit of employee housing. A person who pays a
package deal to come here does not know exactly what they are paying per
ni'Jht. Miller encouraged to COIlunission to convert these lodges to employee
housing~
Carol Fuller said she resents taking something from the historic inventory
and turning it into employee housing. Ms. Fuller said the employees should
be housed at the lodge project. This is changing the character of Aspen.
Maureen McCloskey said it is not just a question of losing these two lodges.
There is a gradual erosion of low cost rooms for people to corne stay in
Aspen. Jim Curtis said he has worked with the applicants trying to help
\vi th employee housing. C'lrtis observed this is a cat.ch 22 situation.
The community has st.ressed the need for employee housing and for employers
to provide the housing. Everyone is looking for the perfect solution, as
long as it is no.t .in the i r backyard.
Marge Riley questioned what kind of employees will be using these units,
will they be happy with a sharing arrangement. Vann said if the units are
deed restrictit":d, they would be subject to the income and occupancy guide-
lines of the hon.sing authoritv~ Vann said the Aloina Baus :is zon'2d RMF
and multi family uses are all2l\ved by riqht. The planning office is suggest-
ing deed restricting them in order to meet the employee housing commitment
of the GMP. The planning office is recommending going through the change in
use procedure because there are quota implications.
Harvey said for the Alpina Haus as a lodge, the P & Z cannot insist that a
non-conforming use be continued. Vann said he would have to check whether
a deed restriction on the Alpina Haus would require a change in use.
Richman said the use proposed for the Copper Horse is not allowed in the
zone district and would probably involve a rezoning. This is a master plan
issue. Vann suggested the staff check into the change in use will be
required by deed restriction, and if the applicant can meet the employees
units. The staff will look at the parking issues for these project; will
look at the impacts on the low end of the lodging market associated with
a change in use of these facilities, the implications from zoning if the
Copper Horse needs rezoning.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM ~O C. F. ~OECKEL 8. B. 8: l. CO.
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
-5-
December 6, 1983
Architectural Design and Visual Impacts. Vann said the PUD request is for
the entire site. The P & Z is considering the lodge portion of that PUD.
The planning office raised several concerns in scoring of the GMP with
respect to design and impact of the project. The P & Z scores reflected
that concern. Vann said the concern is the mass of the building along
Durant street in the vicinity of Rubey park, the intersection of Durant and
Mill streets, the conference center entrance, and the intersection of Monarch
and Durant streets.
Vann said since the scoring, the applicant has spent time working on these
elevations and has corne up with some things to address that concern. Vann
noted the PUD regulations allow a variance of the area and bulk requirements
with the exception of uses and density. The applicant is request a variance
from the height regulations, which are 28 feet and from the applicable FAR
for the zoning. Vann said there are about six zone district in the entire
PUD site. The staff did rough calculations and approximately 360,000 square
feet could be constructed under the underlying zoning on the entire PUD
site, which is a composite external FAR of .88:1.
Vann told the Board the upper portion of the site is zoned R-15, and the
external FARs are calculated on lot size, and it depends on how they are
subdivided. Under the rezoning of Top of Mill to L-l, which has been
requested but not heard, and assuming Council would also deny the rezoning
request on the hotel from L-l to CL, the maximum FAR would be 425,000 to
430,000 square feet, for an FAR of 1.05:1. Vann said a significant portion
of 103,000 square feet is zoned conversation, which cannot be used for FAR
purposes. The total build out for the site proposed by the applicant,
including the residential, is 510,000 to 520,000 square feet for an FAR of
1.25:1, which is 40 per cent greater than what would be allowed under the
underlying zoning. The entire site is 510,000 square feet if that portion
zoned conservation is counted. Vann opined the real issue should be the
visual appearance, height, compatability with adjacent structures, how it
will work in in terms of the surrounding land uses.
Larry stricker, architect for the project, presented the model and told the
Commission he has tried to keep the height and mass down and still provide
the number of rooms to keep the project viable. Stricker pointed out the
height of the building has been mitigated in the wings by breaking the
building into smaller segments. They have taken the Durant street elevations
and the rooms facing Wagner park and dropped them a floor to creat an
additional break in the roof, which has reduced the impact on Durant street.
stricker described the treatment of the exterior. Stricker said the model
shows the overall massing of the building; the drawings show how the building
will be broken up by the detailing of the facade.
Harvey asked the maximum height of the building on Durant street. Stricker
said the peak of the roof is 52 feet. They have been looking at a structural
system to reduce the floor to floor height. In the original submittal the
height was over 60 feet. Stricker demonstrated that the site line is
considerably less than the Mountain Chalet, which is right on Durant street.
Vann said the issue is that the Durant street elevation, which is the main
conference entrance, will extend all the way from Galena to Mill street.
The architect has broken up the visual perception; however, one will be
looking at a nine lot long structure. Vann is concerned about the compati-
bility with adjacent buildings in terms of scale.
Doremus pointed out there are already three building that exceed the height
of the hotel. The Code suggests addressing the surrounding neighborhood
for height rather than what the Code says for height. Doremus said these
buildings do not look bad because they are going up a hill, the background
keeps getting higher. Vann agreed that a variance from the height may be
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
December 6, 1983
appropriate. The wings of this project going up Monarch, Mill and Galena
do work. Doremus said the building is set back 50 feet from Durant so
that the perception of the view blocked is lower. Vann said a concern is
the perceived bulk of the building, regardless of whether it blocks the
view of the mountain. Stricker showed the side street elevations, which
have been softened by bringing some two story roof elements in. Alan Novak
went through some of the design changes. Novak said the applicants do not
believe they are substantially blocking views of the mountain.
Novak said in a PUD the applicant works with the staff to get a project.
One cannot design a hotel instantly, there has to be design development to
come up with a quality design and addressing concerns. Vann pointed out
the detailed architectural review occurs to preliminary PUD stage. However,
it is appropriate the architect be notified of P & Z's concerns so they do
not proceed with the design if the Board has problems. Vann suggested there
are visual bulk concerns with certain elements of this building and the
applicant should address that as part of the subsequent review of this
project.
Mike Strang said things are happening in this community, there is a revitali-
zation of pride. The community is talking about a large good hotel in Aspen,
renovation of theWheeler, building a performing arts center. Strang urged
the community to approach this with a positive approach.
Don Crawford said the model is nice but one cannot get the impact from a
model. Crawford said he would not like the 28 height limitation to be
violated. Crawford said he was shocked to find that the developer is condo-
miniumizing the hotel, which will create a real estate depression. Crawford
said no more units are needed on the market. That will take the hotel out
of the world class category. Crawford said the amenities are needed to
attract conventions and questioned if the town wants conventioneers wandering
around town.
Marge Riley said she is concerned about the pollution that will be caused
by the development of this size, and how the traffic will be handled with
475 cars more daily in the summer. Norma Dolle read a letter to the P & Z
from Carl and Katie Bergman who are opposed to this project. Fritz
Benedict suggested moving in large trees to help disguise the effect.
Benedict said the developer is dedicated to doing a good project for Aspen.
Benedict said he felt the design is an unusual solution to try and lower
the building. Benedict said this hotel will help maintain Aspen's position
in a competitive resort world.
Ralph Melville, owner of the Mountain Chalet, said his building is only 30
feet wide; this building is 270 feet wide. This is a lot of project to have
to look at from downtown. This hotel changes the character of downtown.
Melville said this is too much and too high for one building. Stricker said
it is not possible to take in the entire building in one's vision.
Mark Freidberg said there is difficulty in accepting change. Freidberg said
unless this town is prepared to put up a first class hotel to accommodate
that portion that is not coming to Aspen that will help Aspen with their
activies, Aspen will not overcome their problem. Freidberg said the
applicants have done a ~ood job trying to resolve the mass and the number
of rooms to make this project viable. This town should be ready to go
forward. Tom Griffiths, Bank of Aspen, said he feels this project will have
a significant positive impact on the entire town, and is in favor of the
project.
Harry Teague said he is not too excited about this project in terms of design
and massing; however, it seem the project might be able to have it seem less
bulky if the Commission is flexible in response to height. Teague said the
architect, in trying to keep the height down, is forcing the bulky mass.
Teague suggested letting portions of the building be higher, and portions
lower. This is a possible solution to the massing. This is one of the
largest buildings in town, and it is appropriate that it be taller than
other buildings, like the Wheeler, Hotel Jerome and Catholic Church.
Alan Shaffer said he is concerned with the overall use
hs to be handled very carefully. Shaffer agreed Aspen
class lodging in town. Shaffer said he disagrees with
hi
of the mountain; it
has to have a first
certain elements of
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 10 C. F. HOECKEL B. 6. fi L. CO.
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
-7-
December 6, 1983
this and its significant impacts. Shaffer said these impacts have to be
addressed. Shaffer said the Commission is talking about design and massing.
The Commission ought to look at Woodrun Place at Snowmass to get a balance
and equilibrium. Woodrun place is a facility of condominium units of 55
units. The Commission ought to then look at the models and renderings and
reflect on the possibilities. This proposal is for 520 units on ll~ acres.
This project has visual impact, impact on transportation and other city
services. The open space should be changed some. Shaffer said town has
got to have the hotel, but footprint, bulk and size have to be mitigated.
Alan Novak said the applicants have not decided on the method of financing
but are considered condo-kel (?) financing, which is a security offering.
Perry Harvey read a letter from the First National Bank supporting the
project and saying every effort should be made to provide Aspen with a
quality facility.
Pardee said he agreed with Teague's suggestion about flexibility with height
to lessen the bulk. Pardee said he is concerned about the Durant street
facade, also. Pardee said he is willing to allow higher height limitations
in different areas, as long as the views are protected. Pardee said his
concerns are view planes and bulk. Pardee said the number of units are
secondary compared to the view plane and visual impact. Pardee said he is
not convinced about the bridge and feels it is just as easy to have a tunnel.
Pardee said the applicant owes the P & Z explanations as to the trade offs
for the street vacations. Pardee said with some architectural freedom, this
building can have an exciting front.
Ms. Tygre said a lot of concerns about the project center around the Durant
street facade, and therefore, agreed with flexibility of height. Ms. Tygre
said she would be willing to varying the heights in order that gets something
that looks better. The applicant should have the opportunity to play with
the numbers in terms of height. Ms. Tygre said she did not want to address
the number of rooms at this time.
Ms. Fallin said she felt the site, at present, is a disgrace and it has to
be improved. She is concerned about the mass and bulk. Ms. Fallins said if
the Commission is willing to work with the applicant on the height variations,
she would like to see the bulk reduced. Ms. Fallin said she is concerned
about the number of rooms, but would like more information before making a
decision. This interacts with what happens with the Jerome and the L-3
zone and what will happen at the Institute.
Sheldon said he likes the spirit of the application. The applicants have
worked hard to come up with a design to work for them and for the community.
Sheldon said he likes the pools and they contribute to the aesthetics of
the site. The aesthetics are pleasing from the interior. Sheldon said he
likes the Monarch facade with the varied heights, designs and exterior
facades. Sheldon said he does have problems with the application; it is
too many rooms. Sheldon said he does not feel the hotel has to be 480 rooms
to make it a world class hotel. Sheldon said the P & Z did not address the
issue of the convention facility in the GMP. Sheldon said he does not like
the bridge, especially as a bar or lounge, this is public space and it is
not appropriate to be used as a private facility. Sheldon said the public
trade offs have to be discussed. Sheldon said the facade should be broken
up. The issue is one of quota and mass, impact on growth management policies.
Sheldon said fe feels, architecturally, this is an innovative, workable
design.
White said that Aspen needs
White said aesthetically he
Durant street bothers him.
the mass on Durant street.
as he is not a hote expert.
a quality hotel, and this group is trying.
likes it, he likes the amenities. The mass on
White agreed with varying the height to change
White said on the room issue, he does not know
The bridge does not bother him that much.
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Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
December 6, 1983
White said he does not see any mitigation of the traffic on Durant street
and wants some solutions.
Anderson said this is going to be one of the most important structures in
this town. Anderson said he feels this should be an architecural statement.
Anderson said the structure does not need to dominate the town but needs to
state what it is. Anderson objected to the tunnel effects up mill street.
Anderson said he does not feel the project is incompatible with the surround-
ing buildings. Anderson said the elevation on Durant street needs to be
re-arranged. Anderson said he does not mind the bridge.
Hunt agreed with previous statements about the apparent bulk. Hunt agreed
about varying roof heights. Hunt said the new design is on the right track.
Hunt said regarding the restaurant on Durant and Monarch streets, he has
grave reservations about that. The only way he could deal with it is if the
hotel has valet parking and all the cars go in the garage. Otherwise, he
cannot deal with the restaurant. Hunt does not want a premier hotel that
is condominiumized. The number of rooms, Hunt cannot address because it has
to do with the financial aspect of the project.
Harvey said the P & Z is
project and the massing.
height variation. Harvey
he would like to see more
better feel for it.
dealing with the perception of the size of the
Harvey agreed with previous statements on the
said he is not opposed to the bridge. Harvey
architectural drawings on the brdige to get a
said
Vann said the P & Z could deal with the outstanding issues, the multi year
allocations and the conditions of approval, they can continue this meeting
until the next week. Harvey said at this meeting, the P & Z wants to see
information about the number of rooms, and they will deal with the multi
year allocation.
Anderson moved to continue the meeting to Tuesday, December 13, at 5:00 p.m.;
seconded by White. Meeting concluded at 7:55 p.m.
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C~ty Clerk
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