HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19831220
fORM" C- f.HOHKEL B.B.1i L LJ.
j{egu.Lar Meetlng
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
p.Lannlng and Zonlng Commlsslon
vecember LU, .L~~j
Chairman Perry Harvey called the meeting to order at 5:05 with David White,
Paul Sheldon, Welton Anderson, Jasmine Tygre and Roger Hunt present.
Commissioner
Comments
Minutes
Stevenson
Building Co.
Redevelopment
of Agate
Property
Karen Smith, representing the Aspen Chance subdivision, said
this is on the agenda for January 3, and they would like to
have P & Z come to a site inspection at 4:15 at Ute avenue
and Aspen Alps road. Ms. Smith said they will have the
property staked out so the Commission can see what is
relative to their review.
Ms. Tygre moved to approve the minutes of November 22, 1983;
seconded by White. All in favor, motion carried.
Colette Penne, planning office, said this is a conceptual PUD
and subdivision review. When the site plan was submitted,
the engineering department had problems with it. The appli-
cants would like to readdress the site plan. At this meeting,
they would like to introduce themselves and talk about their
plan, essentially a pre-application conference. Ms. Penne
said the plan is to level the Agate lodge of 24 units, 8
of which are in the lodge. There are 12 units that can be
verified, and the applicants plan is to build six duplexes.
There are some concerns with this block, the alley is not
vacated throughout the block. There are large trees on the
property that will have to be dealt with, and the six duplexes
will exceed the FAR.
Walt Warnicke presented a booklet of other projects their
company has done. The approach is to build and offer turnkey
fully furnished houses for living. Warnicke said they would
like to discuss this site with P & Z because it is on the
entrance to Aspen. Ms. Penne said when the conceptual plan
was done, the applicant was operating with the set back of
R-6 zone, not realizing in a PUD they could be varied. The
staff feels the plans can be changed. The engineering depart-
ment has problems with the curb cuts and with the vacation
of the alley.
Harvey asked the size of the property. Jon Siegle said it is
54,000 square feet not including the alley. Siegle said they
anticipate an FAR of 31,200 square feet. Siegle said the
applicant is acknowledging displacing employee bedrooms and
is committed to replacing these bedrooms in the community
but not on site. The expenses of doing that is tied into the
concept of having 31,200 square feet. These will be 12 free
market units. The applicant will replace 11 bedrooms, not
units.
Ms. Penne said if the alley is vacated, probably the square
footage would go into the project area. Hunt said these are
residential units, and the applicant would have to present
good arguments for vacating the alley, like how the trash
will be removed. Hunt said he is not disposed to giving up
alleys, especially from a service view point. Siegle said
he looked into why this has been zoned PUD and one reason
may be the view plane coming into Aspen.
Ms. Penne said the applicant would like some reaction to
removing the trees or designing around them, and the question
of excess FAR, should it be lenient because of the PUD.
Harvey said he would like the trees preserved, if possible,
and the plan designed around the existing trees. Sheldon
agreed it is easy to build a building and hard to build a
tree.
Regular Meeting
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Planning and Zoning Commission
December 20, 1983
Hunt said he does not see any advantage to the city in having
six duplexes with a larger than average FAR, and the applicant
is not putting any employee housing on site. Hunt said he
is not terribly disposed to an increased FAR. Siegle said
with the employee housing regulations and the cost of doing
business in Aspen, the applicant feels in order to do this
project and meet the employee housing commitment, they need
the extra square footage. Siegle said there are some design
considerations which dictate the size.
Harvey pointed out the FAR ordinance was written because of
the perceived massing of duplexes and single family dwellings.
Harvey said he does not know if the applicant can deal with
the perceived size, or can deal with them so that they do not
look like mammoth buildings. Harvey said he is not inclined
to say right now the Commission will vary the FAR. The FAR
is a way to control the visual impact. Harvey said if the
applicant can handle the visual impact, he would be willing
to look at it. Siegle said with the square footage and the
PUD, the applicant can mitigate the visual massing.
Sheldon asked the height limitation. Ms. Penne said it is
25 to 28 feet. One of the applicants said the highest ridge
is 31-32 feet. Sheldon asked if they planned to underground
the utilities. Warnicke answered yes. Anderson pointed out
a PUD designation is not meant as a benefit for the property
owner but to allow the P & Z to say there are reasons certain
things should be varied if there is a benefit to the entire
community. Anderson said he would hesitate to increase the
FAR just because this is a PUD. Anderson said he would like
to reduce the number of curb cuts wherever possible. Anderson
said he would like the trash access to be handled on site.
Warnicke said the only feedback they have received on the
alley is about access for fire fighting equipment. Ms. Penne
pointed out the engineering department has objected to 15
curb cuts. One of the applicants pointed out there are only
six. Sheldon said the alley is also right of way for pedes-
trian traffic. In the West End there are no sidewalks and
people use the alleys. Sheldon said he would like some
pedestrian way through this alley.
White said he is not real disposed to increasing the FAR.
White said he would like to see something aesthetic at the
entrance to town, and would not like to see six buildings
all the same. White would like to see what the city would
get from the street vacation, and does not generally favor
street vacation. White said he would like to keep the trees
as much as possible. Siegle said one of the suggestions
was to see how the Commission felt about rezoning this parcel
to R/MF to allow the square footage they need.
Anderson said under PUD, there can be different configurations
clusters or row houses without rezoning. Anderson said rezon-
ing to R/MF would not get very far. Sheldon asked what is
the allowable FAR. Ms. Penne said 27,000 square feet and
the applicant is asking for 4,000 above that. Warnicke said
they have tried many ways to cut the size down, and losing
square footage means losing the project. Warnicke said if
the applicant cooperates in every other way, saving trees,
moving buildings, keeping the alley open, elevation changes,
do they stand a chance of increasing the FAR.
Anderson said he is 60 per cent keeping the underlying FAR,
and 40 per cent to see if something creative can be developed
to mitigate the project. Ms. Tygre said she is 100 per cent
opposed to increasing the FAR. The P & Z worked hard on a
response to the community that people did not want to see
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM '0 c. f. HOECKEL B. B. Ii L. CO.
December 20, 1983
Regular Meeting
Andrews/Pletts
Stream Margin
Review and
Commercial GMP
Exemption
Planning and Zoning Commission
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houses that looked too big for the site. The community
wanted smaller houses and more landscaping. Ms. Tygre said
the P & Z went to a lot of work on the FAR and unless the
applicant can show overwhelming reasons why these structures
should be this size, she will not support it. Mr. Tygre
noted this site is at the entrance to Aspen, and she would
like the project smaller.
Hunt said he is 95 per cent for using the underlying zone
district FAR. There is a slight chance they can come up
with good arguments. Hunt said if the acquisition costs are
too high, the project should not be done. White said he is
75 to 80 per cent against changing the FAR. Sheldon agreed
with Jasmine and said he feels very strongly about this.
If the price of land is too high, it will come down some
time. Sheldon said this project is too high, too big and
too dense.
Harvey said the P & Z are not economic arbitrators in this
community for profits of a project. Harvey said anything
on that site would be an improvement over the Agate. Harvey
said he would like to see the property redeveloped. Harvey
said there is a public hearing process for this for the
applicant to answer the neighbors and the P & Z's concerns.
Harvey said he could not see that 250 square feet per unit
will break the project.
Colette Penne, planning office, said there are two requests
herein; stream margin review and GMP exemption. The buildings
are in the S/C/I and are requesting accessory units. Ms.
pletts is requesting an increased green house adding 73~
square feet to the interior space. Ms. Penne said this will
be an artist's studio, and the applicant feels they need
the light. It does increase the FAR and the possibility of
this being commercial square footage increased by 73~.
Ms. Penne showed the Commission the proposed green house
window. There is a loft illegally placed which the applicant
proposed to rip out and replace. Ms. Penne said the decks
do not count in FAR but are important to the stream margin
review. Ms. Penne said she had just received the final
product and final numbers. The total expansion of 274.23
square feet is the green house, loft and new stairway. The
staff is putting this through the commercial GMP because
there is a chance it could be converted to commercial square
footage. The staff is recommending approval of this request.
In terms of the stream marging review, there are three decks
being added. The staff does not feel there is any effect on
the stream. The decks are on the second story and on the
side of the building nearer the park than the stream. Tom
Crews, architect for the applicant, showed plans, showed the
river bank. One deck has been constructed and is supported
from the ground with a 6 by 6 on a concrete foundation. The
deck on the east side of the building would be of similar
construction, and the other deck would be cantilevered from
the second floor so that there is nothing going into the
ground.
Hunt asked about the location of the river channel. Crews
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Regular Meeting
Abetone GMP
Exemption
Planning and Zoning Commission
December 20, 1983
presented a geological report showing where the majority of
the flooding would happen. Harvey asked about the report
on the utility and icing problem. Crews told P & Z the
applicant would like to extend the awning on the building, it
would be a permanent awning and would eliminate icing on
utility meters.
Assistant City Attorney Gary Esary said he has interpreted
this exemption provision of the Code to be a per building
exemption. Esary said if the Commission interprets it the
same way, he would request a condition to make it clear this
274.25 square foot exemption out of the 500 square feet
alloted for this building. Harvey agreed it was on a per
building basis so that people do not keep coming in for
exemptions. Harvey asked what the existing FAR on this
building is. Ms. Penne said the staff is not sure as there
is a discrepancy in the ownership ship line. Ms. Penne said
if the P & Z grants approval, they should condition all other
calculations will have to be done by the building department
to make sure they are in compliance.
Hunt moved to grant approval of the stream margin review and
GMP exemption of approximately 274.25 square feet for the
Andrews/Pletts building with conditions 1 and 2 in the plan-
ning office memorandum dated 20 December 1983, condition 3 -
the project shall comply with zoning and building regulations
irrespective of this approval; condition 4 this is a granting
of a GMP exemption on a per building basis; seconded by
Anderson. All in favor, motion carried.
Ms. Penne, planning office, said the P & Z had raised concerns
at their October 18th meeting on how this area was counted on
the original plans; was it open space, was it counted in the
FAR, would it be additional FAR if it were to be roofed over
as in this application. Ms. Penne pointed out the C-l zone
allows a 1:1 FAR; this building is 1.83:1, therefore, it is
non-conforming.
This building was exempt from the FAR in 1975, Ordinance 11,
by Ordinance #25, 1975 and Ordinance #50, 1974. This
exemption allowed the building to proceed with construction
although it would not have complied with earlier ordinances.
Ms. Penne said either because of the exemption or the FAR
calculations are not as clear as today, the record is not
clear whether the dining area is included in FAR calculations.
Ms. Penne said there is evidence the area was included in
occupancy load calculations. Ms. Penne said she has not seen
plans that conclusively include it or not include it in the
calculations.
Ms. Penne said the Municipal Code requirements in effect
prior to Ordinance 11, 1975, allowed a 2:1 FAR with
provisions for additional square footage when a project
provided public arcade space at ground level or open space
in excess of that required. Ms. Penne told P & Z, the
applicant Paul Rubin, has submitted evidence this may be
part of the floor area calculation in minutes of May 7, 1974
P & Z minutes. P & Z member Johnson stated he "felt that
garden level should be included in the floor area ration".
This is unclear as no action was taken and it was just part
of the minutes.
Ms. Penne said Ordinance 11, 1975, states "in measuring floor
area for the purpose of calculating floor area ratio, there
shall be included that area within the surrounding exterior
walls 1 lIthe floor area of a building or portion thereof
not surrounded by exterior walls shall include any usable
area under a horizontal projection of a roof or floor above".
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
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December 20, 1983
Ms. Penne said on interpretation, one could conclude this
area was counted if the wall at the sidewalk was considered
to be the exterior wall even when the space was not roofed.
Ordinance 11, 1975, also states "for purposes of calculated
floor area ratio, there shall be included basement (but not
sub basement) areas except any such basement area devoted to
underground off street parking". This area could be consid-
ered to be surrounded by exterior walls and it does not
qualify as open space, it may have been calculated as floor
area by being included in the basement - garden level.
Ms. Penne said the area cannot be open space for two reasons;
it cannot be more than 10 feet below the abutting street.
This space is 10.3 feet below the street. Ms. Penne said
the open space must be continuous and not obstructed with
building appurtenances and appendages. Stairways are
considered obstructions. The space is accessed by a stair
way which divides it from the sidewalk.
Ms. Penne told P & Z the current floor area ordinance
includes any area under a horizontal projection of a roof
and any question of the inclusion of this space is answered
once the roof is placed over it. This area is subgrade; the
proposed roof is glass. Ms. Penne said the evaluation of the
impact of additional bulk is less than a solid roof above
grade. However, there is an open area that is proposed to
be closed in. Ms. Penne said based on the present FAR
ordinance, the area qould be counted in FAR; however, the
past record is inconclusive as to whether this space was
included in the FAR.
Ms. Penne said the staff feels any growth or servicing
impact resulting from glassing in this area would be minimal.
Ms. Penne told the Board if they feel the applicant's
arguments are strong enouch to justify issuance of a building
permit, they could find that this area should have been
originally included in the floor area and request issuance
of a permit. Ms. Penne said the planning office is reluc-
tant to reach that conclusion based on the evidence presented.
Under today's regulations, the enclosure of the space would
increase the FAR and will increase the non-conformity in
terms of the FAR.
Ms. Penne recommended P & Z table the applicant and send
the applicant to the Board of Adjustment for a variance for
this space in the FAR. Ms. Penne said if P & Z feels it
is good idea to have this project done, they may send on
a recommendation to the Board of Adjustment.
Harvey recapped this is not open space, it is an open area;
it is not clear that it was included in FAR but was
mentioned garden level should be included in the FAR. Ms.
Penne questioned if it was not open space and was not FAR,
what was it.
Paul Rubin pointed out not only is this area obstructed by
the stairway, but one has to go into the restaurant and
through the sliding glass door to get to this area. Rubin
said it was always clear this was intended to be used as a
restaurant. Rubin pointed out a copy of the building permit
and in the calculation for occupancy load, this area was
counted. Rubin said the recognition of this being used as
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Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
December 20, 1983
dining space was very clear. Rubin said at no time is there
any evident to show that this was not counted as FAR, and
it clearly cannot be open space.
Hunt asked if this open area is within the walls of the
buidling, what would be the FAR. Rubin said there are
various ways to calculate the FAR because of planters, over
hangs, elevators, etc. Ms. Penne said the issues of GMP
exemption and the impacts of using this as commecial space
were outlined in an earlier memorandum to P & z. Rubin said
they are rearranging the restaurant and there will be less
seats than there are now.
Hunt said if the walls of the open area are included in the
FAR and that comes out to 2:1, that could be an indication
it was included in the FAR, which at the time for the zone
district was 2:1. Paul Sheldon said when he walks by the
building, all he sees is the edge. Sheldon said the addition
of a glass roof will not make any impact on the public and
he does not oppose it. White agreed with Sheldon.
Anderson pointed out this stairway is not covered and is
going down into this space. This is not like stairways that
are covered and go up on a building. Anderson said he feels
this was definitely open space in the beginning and should
stay open space. Rubin pointed out that the open space
should be continues and not obstructed with building appur-
tenances, this area is obstructed and always has been.
Ms. Tygre said no one, at this time, can say conclusively
what this space is or is not. Ms. Tygre said this request
is to cover space that was not previously enclosed and there
will be tables there. Ms. Tygre said the applicant should
go get a variance. Esary said the Board of Adjustment can
smooth out the rough edges of the zoning code, and this is
within their jurisdiction. Esary said no one can prove
whether this is open space or FAR, the record is not clear.
Harvey, White and Sheldon feel the request from the applicant
should be approved. Anderson, Ms. Tygre and Hunt feel it
should remain open space. Hunt pointed out the building is
already over the FAR.
Anderson moved to table this application until such time as
a variance on floor area limitation is obtained from the
Board of Adjustment with no additional comments from P & Z;
seconded by Ms. Tygre.
Harvey asked the Commission if the applicant does get a
variance, would the Commission be willing to short circuit
the process and approve a growth management exemption. The
Commission said no; the applicant should go to the variance
first.
All in favor, with the exception of White and Sheldon.
Motion carried.
Aspen Mountain
Lodge - Additional
Review Sunny Vann, planning director, said there are some issues on
Requirements this project still outstanding. One of these are the
conditions of the conceptual PUD/subdivision. The rezoning
issues have either been tabled or denied. The employee
housing on Ute avenue has been deferred. The change in use
for employee housing should have some conditions attached.
The P & Z has dealt with the multi year allocation and
decided on 464 units. Vann said he would like to go through
the conditions so that the staff can prepare a resolution.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
fORM," C. F. HOHKEL B. B.II L. ~J.
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
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December 20, 1983
Aspen Mountain Lodge continued
Vann said the planning office has always had a problem with the facade on
Durant avenue and the Mill and Durant intersection. The applicant has continued
to review the architecture. The applicant scored low in architecture and any
further work would be an improvement in their GMP submission. Vann said this
could be accommodated without an amendment to the GMP submission. The appli-
cant would like to meet with P & Z and discuss design considerations. Vann
said in the resolution one of the conditions should be that the applicant
continue to work on design considerations. Harvey said he would like the
resolution to indicate to Council the specific areas the P & Z will look
closely at, and "surrounding scenic areas" seems vague. Anderson said he would
like added the solar problem on Durant street. P & Z okayed condition 1 with
the addition of the problem of shading of Durant street.
Vann pointed out the fire department commented on whether or not they would be
able to get fire equipment into the internal courtyards. The applicant noted
state of the art fire techniques will be used. Vann suggested the applicant
talk with the fire department to see if the applicant's proposals are sufficient
to satisfy the fire department; this will be clarified as part of the prelimin-
ary plat. During preliminary stage, the P & Z will see specifics. P & Z
okayed condition 2.
Vann said the applicant originally represented the hotel did not intrude into
the Wheeler Opera House view plane. Subsequent information indicates the
project is in the view plane technically, but construction of other buildings
in the foreground eliminates the visual impact from the Wheeler. Vann said
there is a question as to whether or not mapping the view plane up to the base
of the mountain is correctly codified. The engineering department feels there
may be an error here, unfortunately there is little information on this. The
staff is saying if the project technically intrudes into the view plane, the
applicant needs, at preliminary, to state why the waiver should be granted.
Vann said there is rationale for this as the building in the foreground already
block the view. Vann said further research needs to be done on this and
depending on the outcome, the applicant may need to ask for additional review
at preliminary PUD.
Condition 4 addresses the extent of the various representations from TDA traffic
study that the applicant inteded to take. This was clarified at a previous
P & Z meeting; however, as part of the preliminary PUD, the staff would like
written representation as to exactly what is going to be done.
Vann told P & Z, the engineering department in reviewing encroachments and
vacations suggested that since some of these benefit the applicant, felt it
appropriate the city be reimbursed for these. What was discussed was if the
city vacated something, the applicant would redo the intersection of Mill and
Durant, curb and gutter. Condition 5 would require the applicant to come
back at preliminary plat with a specific proposal in exchange for a recommenda-
tion of support from P & Z to Council for the vacation of rights-of-way.
Anderson changed the last sentence from "off-street" improvements to "off-site"
improvements. White said if the city is going to give a street vacation, the
return should be specific. White said he would like the idea of Rubey park
and the pedestrian walkway pursued. Novak said a lot of their improvements
are tied in the the proposed lodge improvement district. Novak said some of
the improvements discussed are undergrounding utilities, unified street scape,
street lighting. Harvey said the GMP submission deals with these items.
There is also the question of reimbursements for vacated rights-of-way and
encroachment. Harvey said he would like it clear what kinds of off-site
improvements will be given for the rights-of-way in addition to what was
represented in the GMP submission.
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
December 20, 1983
Jay Hammond, engineering department, said their conrern is that if the city
is giving up public property, to vacations and encroachments, the city will
get some in trade to balance that, like a good circulation plan. Hammond
said a good example and direct trade might be replatting of the rights-of-way
that are old and narrow, like upper Mill street. Sheldon said he would like
to see improved access to lift lA.
Novak said the applicants will be looking at lift lA as they have an interest
in having good access to lift lA. Novak said it is difficult to listen to
requests for improvements without knowing what the costs will be. The applicant
started out with an assumption, they wanted to make a major contribution to
the community and to the lodge district. Novak said the list of items they
are proposing is already substantial. Novak questioned where to stop in terms
of the vacations and what they are worth. Harvey said he would like to see
the condition more clear, as Harvey feels "reimbursement" indicates more to
be given to the city than what is already mentioned in the GMP submission.
Vann said the staff is looking for a rationale to justify the vacation of the
public rights-of-way. Vann said this was not addressed in the GMP application.
Vann said the city would like to see a clarification by preliminary plat
exactly what the applicant is proposing to do.
Ms. Tygre said perhaps there should be some guidance from the Commission on
what off-site improvements that might be more valuable to the site and to the
community than others. Ms. Tygre said improved access to lA would be quite
important but does not have anything specific in mind. Anderson said the P & Z
will be meeting in work sessions with the applicant and will be working toward
preliminary plat, and the specifics can be developed in that time period.
Harvey suggested some language about cooperation between the applicant and the
P & Z be added to the resolution.
Sheldon suggested two ways to measure the value; reimbursing the city for
utilities and to try to measure what that would cost the citizens of Aspen in
1983 or 1984 dollars; or the value of the land on the open market to purchase
that much square footage. Vann suggested P & Z recommend to Council in support
of the vacations and encroachments is based on the fact that the city is
receiving a quid pro quo through the provisions of other off-site services to
be provided by the applicant. The applicant will have to make his case between
now and preliminary plat exactly what will be done to off-set these trades.
Vann said condition 6 is straight forward, the staff is asking for a subidiviso~
plat as it appears the residential will be subdivided out of the lodge.
Condition 7 an adequate survey for the site is lacking. The engineering depart-
ment has requested the applicant provide a survey clarifying the ownership of
the parcel. Ms. Tygre brought up a concern about ownership form of the
project. Vann said that condominiumization in the traditional sense is not
appropriate for this hotel. Vann pointed out they would have to submit a
separate application for condominiumization or condotel, and staff has deferred
any decision on this. Vann said the P & Z could approve the project, and deny
the condominiumization.
Hunt said he feels very strongly against the condominiumization of this project.
Hunt said he would like a requirement that the property management and property
rental have to be the same entity. Vann said it would be appropriate to
address the ownership at the preliminary stage. Further clarification of
the ownership regime should be provided as part of preliminary PUD.
Vann said in condition 8 the issues raised by the environmental health depart-
ment are more appropriately addressed at the preliminary PUD. These issues
put the applicant on notice and should be addressed. Condition 9 is the
reconstruction issues which requires no action of P & Z. This condition is
to state what P & Z is approving as reconstruction of this project. There is
a difference between the requested 277 units and the verified 269 units, and
this will have to be worked out between staff and the applicant. If the
applicant can substantiate the questioned eight units, the number of units to
be reconstructed can be changed at preliminarly plat.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
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fORM" C. f. HQECKEL 6, 6. II L CJ.
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
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December 29, 1983
Harvey said that is not what the condition 9 says, the condition as worded
limits them to 269 units. Harvey said he would like the recommendation from
P & Z to say there is a problem in this area between staff and the applicant
and that it will be worked out. Sheldon suggested referring non-specifically
to the number of units approved by the building department. Vann said they
will try to deal with this issue prior to the award of allocation, if possible.
Vann said he will make the language generic.
Vann said condition 10 is that the vacation of Dean street between Monarch and
Mill that all utility rights be maintained and also public use of the street.
Vann said they will ask the applicant to clarify the issues in this vacation
and include it in preliminary PUD. Harvey said he would like added that this
is conditioned also an agreement between adjacent property owners as to use,
specifically the Mountain Chalet. P & Z okayed conditions 11 and 12.
Vann said he would like to add a condition saying the approval is conditioned
upon the representations contained in the GMP submission and preliminary PUD
application.
Sheldon said he feels the bridge over Mill street is an imposition in a public
right-of-way and public view. Sheldon said this is not approriate in this
town. Egress between the parts of the lodge should be done in a private way.
Sheldon said access to Rubey park should be addressed; he favors a pedestrian
underpass.
White said the pedestrian bridge over Mill street is fine. White suggested
buses dropping below grade at Rubey park so the street would be for cars.
White said he would access to the hotel also underground. Sheldon said if
there is an overpass over Mill street, it is inappropriate for it to be a
lounge or congregating area. If there must be an overpass, it should only be
for circulation. White said he does not want the overpass to be heavily
commercial space but could have small seating area. White said there is a
need to get between two parts of the lodge.
Hunt said the Mill street bridge could be terrible; however, if it is done
right, he could be convinced. Hunt said he wanted a minimal bridge rather
than restaurant/lounge area. Access to Rubey park should be underground.
Ms. Tygre said she is not crazy about the bridge, but it could be handled
properly. Ms. Tygre said the bridge should not be too obtrusive. Ms. Tygre
said there will be a lot more need for access to Rubey park, and although she
does not like underground passages, that may be considered. Ms. Tygre
suggested in the general limosine service, service to Snowmass be
included which may relieve Rubey park some.
Anderson said he does not have a problem with the Mill street bridge, and it
should not be a narrow corridor. Anderson said this could be a great element
and should be an architectural element. Anderson said undergrounding access
to Rubey park may be overkill but may be a reasonable concession to letting
the parking ramp go out on Durant street.
Harvey said he does not have a problem with the Mill street bridge unless it
grows to something that catches the eye. Harvey said people envision the
bridge as blocking the view, and from a site visit, it actually does not.
Harvey said deal with the issue of Rubey park is something the applicant will
have to do for their guests, and rather than deal with the specific solution,
the applicant should deal with it.
Vann said the whole Commission has raised concerns about the relationship
between the hotel and Rubey park, and this is not addressed in the application.
There could be a condition requesting the applicant to address the problem
and come back during preliminary PUD. Joe Wells, representing the applicant,
told P & Z one of the reasons the applicant did not address the Rubey park
Regular Meeting
Planning and Zoning Commission
December 20, 1983
was the Council was changing its mind on the Rubey park SPA. Vann said the
concern is that there is a substantial number of people occupying the hotel
who will have to move into the commercial core, and P & Z would like consider-
ation on how the applicant will handle that. Hunt reiterated his warning
about the service areas on Monarch and Dean streets and this is not specific-
ally covered, and the applicant will have to find a way to make this work.
Wells said the applicants have transportation planners looking at this and
they will address it in more detail.
Vann said at this point the P & Z is approving the application as submitted
with the exception of 16 rooms that were removed. The next issue is the GMP
exemptions. The Cooper Horse is historically designated and does not require
a GMP exemption; however rezoning will be required and will be submitted as
part of the preliminary PUD. The P & Z has indicated they would give this
rezoning favorable consideration. The Alpina Haus will require a change in
use, the planning office has recommended approval, with which the P & Z seemed
to concur with some conditions.
Vann said regarding the parking problem, the applicant needs to address how
they will handle this. The P & Z should consider the parking alternatives
prior to passing the change in use exemption since it is a one step process.
The other exemption on employee housing is on Ute avenue, and the P & Z has
tabled this issue until January 3, 1984.
Vann said at the last meeting, P & Z arrived at a number of units for this
project, eliminated 16 units, and indicated they would recommend sufficient
quota to allow the hotel construction. What is not in here is the eight units
under discrepancy. At this point P & Z has said they want the project to
have 464 units. Vann said he would add to the resolution the termination
date provision, and that P & Z recommend that the Alpina Haus units go back
into the L-l, L-2 quota. Hunt said he is unhappy with the 464 units as
approved at the last meeting.
Hunt moved to reconsider the previous motion thinking 464 units are too many
units; seconded by Ms. Tygre.
Ms. Tygre, Hunt, White, and Sheldon in favor; Anderson and Harvey opposed.
Motion carried.
Hunt said he feels 464 are too many units for this project. Vann said the
numbers are 50 units from back log, this year's quota of 35, 47 from the
Alpina Haus, two years quota plus reconstruction is 476 units. The Commission
went over their previous voting and the numbers they wanted. Ms. Tygre said
she favors 406 units based on reconstruction 50 back log, this years quota,
and the Alpina Haus. Ms. Tygre said 464 units is that number of people on
that site is too much. Ms. Tygre said she would not like to get into a
situation where the applicant cannot build the project. The town has an
opportunity to get a good project on that site, so that she would be willing
to give one year future quota so that the project could be built.
Sheldon said there is not that much possibility of future build out in the
lodge zone. Sheldon said the mass of people on the site is too great, but
it is the sentiment of the town that a project like this is needed. Sheldon
said the difference between 450 units and 464 units will not make a difference
in the visibility of the building, the extra 28 people will not make a great
difference. Sheldon said he is interested in supporting the applicant and
giving them a change to do a good job. Sheldon said one the number is up to
450 units, what difference will 14 units make.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM'G C.F,HOECKELB.B.1i L. CO.
Regular Meeting
Planning and zoning Commission
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December 20, 1983
Vann said the Commission must balance the bulk issue with the desire to see
the project built. Vann said if P & Z has a problem with this, then 14
rooms will not make a big change in the project. Hunt said at the last meeting
the applicant represented he could live with 450 units. Novak said the
applicant genuinely believes the number of units requested, 480 units, is the
correct number of being able to do a quality job, address the bulk requirements
realistically, finance the project and get it built. Novak said cutting 14
units is not helping the town by lessening the bulk, but this will be hurting
the applicant by quality, some amenities, or some things requested by P & z.
white wants 450 units; Anderson 464; Ms. Tygre, 440-450; Hunt, 450; Sheldon,
464; Harvey 464. Sheldon suggested not making a recommendation to Council
since the Board is divided.
Sheldon moved to direct staff to draft a resolution in which this item dealt
with, it is the consensus of the Commission that 480 rooms are too many;
some members feels 450 was an acceptable number and an equal number of
members of the Commission felt that is too few and the P & Z cannot reach
a majority; seconded by Harvey. Hunt, White and Ms. Tygre opposed; Sheldon,
Anderson and Harvey in favor. Motion NOT carried.
Ms. Tygre moved that the multi year allocation issue be phrased that the
Commission was equally split between 450 and 464 units; seconded by Sheldon.
All in favor, motion carried.
Anderson moved to adjourn at 8:35 p.m; seconded by Ms. Tygre. All in favor,
motion carried.
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City Clerk