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BRADFORD PUBLISHING CO.. DENVER
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning and Zoning Commission
March 6, 1979
The Aspen Planning and Zoning Commission held a regular meeting on March 6, 1979,
at 5:00 PM in the City Council Chambers. Members present were Charles Collins,
John Schuhmacher, Joan Klar, Welton Anderson, Nancy McDonnell and Perry Harvey.
Also present were Karen Smith and Joe Wells of the Planning Office.
Approval of Minutes
Harvey moved to approve the minutes of February 20, 1979,
as presented, McDonnell seconded. All in favor, motion
approved.
Aspen Institute,
Preliminary PUD
and SUbdivision,
Final SPA,
Public Hearing
Collins_opened the public hearing.
Wells noted that they met with the applicant this morning
and the Planning Office asks that the application be
tabled after the presentation and public hearing.
Wells noted that Council gave conditional SPA approval for
the conceptual SPA plan in August of 1977. This process
requires the adoption of an SPA plan for the parcel in the
City and full subdivision and PUD procedures. The appli-
cant filed a conceptual PUD and subdivision application
which was recommended for denial from P&Z but approved
conditionally by Council in June, 1978. Wells stressed
that this is a crucial stage in the application. The
applicant is anxious to get an opinion from P&Z about
how the application reacts to the Master Plan. He
suggested tabling after the presentation and public hearing
and discontinuing the subdivision considerations and
republishing for that public hearing at a later date.
Andy Hecht, attorney for the applicants, clarified the
procedure the application must follow.
Donald Ensign, planner and architect for the application,
feels they have developed a program that satisfies the
interests of the City and the Institute and results in a
way that they can operate as a year round conference
facility. He noted that City Council itemized 16 concerns
they wanted addressed in the preliminary submission. He
reviewed and responded to these points. 1) Will the
Institute remain in Aspen; Ensign said the Institute still
represents that they will stay in Aspen. 2) Documentation
support of an exemption under the GMP; Ensign stated that
the Institute has been tenatively exempted from the GMP,
the land mass of the Institute has not been calculated
into the GMP calculations for potential growth areas.
Council wants them to show that under the policies of the
GMP, they are minimizing the impact of this kind of devel-
opment and that it is consistent with the pOlicies of the
GMP. 3) Scoring under the GMP; they have not been scored
yet but have addressed the elements that are used to evalu-
ate GMP applications. 4) Resolution of alternate site
selection for employee housing; Ensign said they would
address this later in the presentation. 5) Refinement of
the estimate of employees; Ensign said this was documented
in the submission. 6) Refinement of estimate of
faculty/conferee ratio; this is also documented in the
submission and will be discussed in the presentation.
7) Agreement to restrict three types of use: conferee,
faculty and employee; Ensign said their entire program
is based on that assumption. 8) Empirical documentation
to support a 7,000-9,000 square foot restaurant; Ensign
said this would be addressed in the presentation.
9) Satisfactory resolution of the interior and exterior
circulation and transportation system; Ensign said there
is a major portion of the presentation that addresses this
issue. 10) Impact on the neighborhood; Ensign said they
feel the major impact is generated by the transportation
problem and will be addressed in that section of the project.
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Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning and Zoning commission
March 6, 1979
John Doremus
In addition, they have addressed the visual impact on the
neighborhood. 11) Refinement of the program facilities
evidenced by the marketing that is to be used; there is
an entire section in the submission that addresses what
the market for a conference center is and specific market
they are addressing with their conference center.
12) Assurances of continued use for conference in the
winter versus tourist accommodations; Ensign said these
two items are generally the substance of their marketing
study. 13) Tying down open space and open to the community,
trails location and dedication; Ensign said this is a
technical item to be negotiated with the County and the
City. 14) How the proposed development will affect views,
visual impact and architectural siting; this is addressed
in the submission. 15) Give the community some programs
in the community's interest so that the cO~Anity can be
involved; Ensign stated that there were 18~ast year that
the community used the facility and they will continue
this. 16) Phasing schedule; Ensign said this was addressed
in the SPA plan.
The second part of the presentation addressed the needs of
the Institute. The Institute, begun in 1949, has grown
to accommodate 55 executive seminar programs. There were
82 such programs elsewhere in the world under the Institute.
Ensign said this is the Institute's home and they intend
to stay. He stressed the need of the Institute to be on
a sound financial basis. The second concern of the Insti-
tute is housing supply for employees, conferees and faculty.
The third concern is to locate all facilities in one spot.
The limit for units is 356, 50 of which are employee
housing. They propose 245 guest rooms, 61 faculty units
in 18 living entities, and 50 employee units in duplexes
and eightplexes.
Ensign introduced Gene Keluche, current owner/manager of
the Scotsdale conference center, marketing expert and
native of the Aspen area. Keluche added that he is the
Chairman of Western Conference Resorts, a company that
specializes in the design and development of conference
centers. He gave a slide presentation on the statistics
of various aspects of conference centers.
Harvey asked if Keluche felt there is an economic viability
in what the Institute is proposing. Keluche said they
have tested this model at 150, 200 and 250 rooms; they
feel it will work at 250 rooms. Wells asked what happens
to the facility for the balance of the year if they are
only lookiqg at 5-5~ months of marketing. Keluche said
four months is the Institute's own use. Klar asked how
they will deal with the problem of getting people from
Denver to Aspen since there is already a problem with
booking on the airways. Keluche did not think this would
affect the Institute at all. He noted that some people
would not come because of the altitude and the age of
the participants. They will be selling packages that force
people to fly on weekdays.
Ensign then explained the Master Plan maps and showed the
proposed layout of the expansion.
Doremus said he was impressed with the plans and felt it
would work as a conference center. He did not feel items
two and three of the City Council concerns were dealt with
at all. He also had a problem with items 10(_13 and 17.
He also pointed out that the land north of tne river is
for sale and should not be considered with their calcula-
tion of open space. Ensign represented that this land
is not included in the submission. Doremus noted that
the map colors this parcel in the submission. Ensign said
to color that land "sold".
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BRADFORD PUBLISHING CO., DENVER
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
March 6, 1979
Regular Meeting
Nick McGrath
Herman Edel
Jeffrey Sachs
Aspen Planning and Zoning Commission
Doremus felt they should address transportation more
thoroughly with such information as car counts, etc.
Ensign said there were trip generation numbers in the
submission. Doremus said he counted cars last summer
and compiled these figures: July 20, 1978, 8:30 AM,
there were 106 cars parked at the Meadows, August 10, 1978,
9:00 AM, there were 92 cars parked at the Meadows. Between
these two dates, the average car count was between 45-55
cars in the morning. This averages one car for every two
rooms. He felt this conflicts with what is represented
in the submission. He also felt they should address the
impact of community use of the facility on traffic genera-
tion in the West End. He Objected to the truck deliveries
to the facility. He felt they made some asssumptions that
may not be true such as 50% of the employees will have
cars, 50% won't. He did not feel that the conferees will
wait for a bus if there meeting gets out early and they
want to ski.
Ensign felt that Doremus' concerns were legitimate and
needed to be documented. He felt all these items were
covered in the submission.
McGrath was representing a couple adjacent land owners
who generally support the Institute. They addressed the
degree of specificity of the maps and other data. He
submitted a written document of the neighbors' concerns.
He felt the Institute's promises must be put in writing.
He noted that the track area, although shown as open space,
is also shown on the design analysis as an area that could
be developed, which is not addressed in the submission.
He also noted that the number 356 was given by Bill Kane
and he felt they should clarify what constitutes a living
entity. He felt they should also clarify the scope of
the commercial development in numbers. His clients support
the Institute but feel they must have this all in writing.
Edel said conference centers market the strength of their
center and the area. He felt they would be marketing the
facility as a prime ski resort. He felt the Institute is
a very important part of Aspen. He did not feel they
could confine the conferees to the center with the things
Aspen can offer. He also questioned how they could fly
in all these people. He felt the major objection of the
people in the West End is the degree of development. He
felt they should be willing to negotiate a smaller approach
that could be viable. He noted that the peop~ in the
West End are not obj ecting to employee housing '" they want
it distributed through the entire area.
Andy Hecht said they are negotiating a program that their
consultants feel is the only viable solution. Keluche
explained that with rising construction costs, in order to
make the center commercially viable, they must get more
revenue units so the overall size of the project increases.
They estimate each unit will cost around $60,000.
Edel asked if they would state in their application that
this facility is limited to certain uses. Ensign felt they
could accomplish this with the appropriate agreements with
the City.
Sachs asked what would happen after the conferees are
finished with their business and wish to attend the night
life in Aspen. Ensign said they are proposing a transpor-
tation and shuttle system for this purpose. Keluche said
all the conferences are packaged so the conferees pay for
the meals, etc. in advance.
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Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning and Zoning commission
March 6, 1979
Master Plan
Public Hearing
Code Amendments,
Trash Access,
Density Bonus,
Housing Overlay,
Fractional Fee
Interests
Larry Yaw
Harvey asked if they schedule "golf" time in their confer-
ence schedules. Keluche said about one of twenty confer-
ees take advantage of their 36-hole course in Scotsdale.
The course is also open to the public. Keluche said the
agent that books the conference is mostly concerned with
business; he would like it to be a pleasurable experience
but the other recreational amenities are really extra.
Ensign asked Keluche to explain how this center will be
marketed.
Keluche said they have a computerized direct mail list of
23,000 supported by trade advertising through three pri-
mary trade journals. Klar asked if Keluche is involved
in the management system. Keluche said he is just a con-
sultant. Klar asked for a list of the community facilities.
Wells asked for a list of the programs this winter.
Ensign said they will provide these lists.
Klar moved to continue this public hearing and table
action on this application until the next regular meeting,
March 20, 1979, Schuhmacher seconded. All in favor,
motion approved.
Smith introduced the item. She noted that this has been
discussed over two meetings, most recently ata study
session with the County P&Z. These meetings have shown
the need for a significant amount of additional work.
She suggested continuing with this public hearing, closing
the public hearing and republishing for another public
hearing at a later date.
Collins opened the public hearing. There were no comments.
Collins closed the public hearing.
Harvey moved to table action on the Master Plan Amendments,
Anderson seconded. All in favor, motion approved.
Collins opened the continued public hearing on the Housing
Overlay and Fractional Fee Interests. There were no
comments.
Collins opened the public hearing on Trash Access and
Density Bonus.
Smith noted that she spoke with vic Goodhard of Aspen
Trash. He was disturbed with the amendment now being
discussed because of numerous existing problems with the
alleys that he feels can only get worse by slackening the
size requirements for this access. Nolan Rosall, downtown
planning consultant, supported the recommendation from the
Board of Adjustment of 20'xlO'xlO' per lot with an addi-
tional 10' per additional lot. The trash subcommittee
recommended an area 15'xlO'xlO' per lot with a special
review for certain uses. Mr. Goodhard suggested uses
that generate alot of trash such as ski shops, restaurants,
etc. Smith noted that the use can change which may pre-
sent a problem. Rosall feels an area 20'xlO'xlO' is a
functional minimum.
Yaw felt the present requirement is twice the needed space.
He recommended looking at the management of Aspen Trash
for a possible solution. The present regulation exter-
nalizes our trash into our streets. Counting the area
under the protective covering in the calculation of FAR
discourages a functional area.
Andrew Dracopoli felt a specifically designed trash area
is far more efficient and functional than allocating the
whole width of the building against the alley. He sup-
ported the 15'xlO'xlO' recommendation. He also suggested
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BRADFORD PUBLISHING CO., DENVER
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning and Zoning Commission
March 6, 1979
the requirement be a percentage of the gross area of the
building.
The Board then addressed the Density Bonus amendment.
Jeffrey Sachs
Sachs said he is with a group that intends to build an
office building in Aspen. They are outside the GMP and
are faced with two alter~~tives. They could use the
.75 provided by the code~ seek the .25 employee housing
bonus. He said low cost housing is uneconomic to build
even connected with an office building. He felt building
1/4 of the building for employee housing in the office
district was too much. He felt .15 was a better percentage,
They are looking at two small two-bedroom units in their
building.
Klar moved to continue the public hearing on these code
amendments until March 13, 1979, McDonnell seconded. All
in favor, motion approved.
Resolution of
Commendation,
Ellen Anderson &
Donald Ensign
Schuhmacher moved to adopt the resolutions of commendation
for Ellen Anderson and Donald Ensign as drafted, Klar
seconded. All in favor, motion approved.
Anderson moved to adjourn the meeting, Harvey seconded.
All in favor, motion approved. Meeting adjourned at
8:05 PM.
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Sheryl immen, Deputy City Clerk