HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19990825ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
AUGUST 25~ 1999
Chairperson Suzannah Reid called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
Members in attendance were Lisa Markalunas, Roger Moyer, Heidi
Friedland, Jeffrey Halferty, Susan Dodington, Christie Kienast and Maureen
Poschman. Staff in attendance were Assistant City Attorney, David Hoefer;
Historic Preservation Officer, Amy Guthrie and Chief Deputy City Clerk,
Kathleen Strickland.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Heidi relayed that she was quoted in the Aspen Times as saying she was
opposed to anything over a second story on 302 E. Hopkins and that has
never been specifically what she said. She did not make that comment to the
reporter the way it was stated in the newspaper.
302 E. HOPKINS AVE. - CONCEPTUAL, PARTIAL DEMOLITION,
ON-SITE RELOCATION (continued public hearing)
Sworn in: John Davis, Jake Vickery, Gary Nichols, Mark Halderman, Joan
Padget, Helen Palmer, Su Lum, Carol Craig, Les Holst, Eve Homeyer, W. R.
Walton, Scott Hicks, Larry Frederick, Sara Garton.
Amy relayed that the property is on the comer of East Hopkins and Monarch
Street. There is an addition to the house that was added in the 60's and an
existing historic shed behind it. The HPC has been working with the
applicant since April to find a way that an addition could be made to the
building in an appropriate manner. The idea that has been pursued is to try
and create a new pad for development that would be separate from the house.
That would be accomplished by demolishing the 1960's addition which has
not been found by the commission to be important. Relocating the shed up
closer to the back of the building and closer to the street to give it more
prominence and creating an open space at the back of the lot.
The concerns relate to whether the new structure should be attached to the
historic buildings and how tall the new structure should be. At this point it is
proposed to be three stories. At the last meeting the board unanimously said
they would not support a third story finding that it created too many scale
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
AUGUST 25~ 1999
issues with the historic structures and that the buildings needed to be
completely detached from each other.
Staff has recommended unless those changes are made that the new building
is not more than two stories and that the courtyard area around the shed is
minimized so that the staircases is concealed from the street as possible.
Without those changes staff does not feel the proposal meets the review
standards and she does not feel that the board should proceed with any further
discussions. There are no variances required because this is the commercial
core historic district but the applicant will have to go to P&Z to discuss
parking and trash areas.
Maureen and Christie were seated to vote.
John Davis made a couple of points to refresh everybody's memory on where
this all started. In the paper they got beat up on how they have turned in sort
of the same plan for six different meeting and they did not really come back
with what the board suggested. They do not feel that is the case. They
started out with a three story building and had a two story attachment at the
June 9th meeting. At that meeting the consensus was that they needed to
loose the connector and that the majority of the board was fine with a three
story building. There were a couple of people that would consider a three
story building if they removed the connector. The connector was removed.
Then it was the suggestion of the board to add a one story connector back
into the project to break up the division of the wall behind so they put it back
in. At the next meeting it was split board as to who wanted the connector and
who didn't. Those were the public meetings. At the worksession of Aug.
11th is when everything came down about a two story building and a couple
of the members that were supporting the three story were not there. John
wanted to set the record straight they are not sitting there continuing to submit
the same proposal. They felt they were directed by the board to put the
connector there. They are taking a 100 foot lot and preserving 75 feet of the
historic house and lot and they are trying to build a 25 by 30 foot building in
the back of the property. They are still only trying to present a proposal of
maybe 3,000 square feet of FAR. They started with a three story and two
story connector and everybody said get rid of the connector and we can
support a three story building and that is where we are.
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Suzannah said the board is clear on where they have been throughout the
process.
Jake Vickery informed the public that the project is 100% preserving both
the house and the shed as well as the areas adjacent to the public right-of-
ways to these structures. They have a situation where there is zero
demolition of any historical material. There is 100% preservation of all
historical material and the settings such as grass, flowers, fences, whatever is
there now gets preserved. They worked with the board to try and put new
development detached on the rear 30 feet or so of the property. They have
removed the connectors that connected to the historical house to the new
back taller building and also the connector that went to the historical shed.
In the course of doing that they need the third floor for program reasons. The
code allows a growth management system exemption to allow a two bedroom
residential unit. The purpose of that is to off-set or encourage the
preservation of the historic resources. The primary elevation is from E.
Hopkins. The shed has been relocated from the back comer to the center of
the project visible from the S. Monarch St. and more of a part of the sidewalk
and street level for access. Open space will be kept around it. The building
is a 24 foot wide building then it sets back about 18 feet and it is another 6
feet wide, a total of 30 feet wide in the back of the site and 24 feet at the
sidewalk. The third floor is set back six inches and to not allow the third
floor creates a win/loose situation. We tried to meet the board half way to
what we feel is reasonable, we took out the connectors on the first and
second levels, removed the bedroom up into the third level.
Public and board members viewed the model.
Suzannah relayed to the public that the trash and parking issues are reviewed
by the Planning & Zoning Commission.
Susan asked about the shed being raised and Jake stated that it is basically on
grade or around six inches and you step in.
Jake stated there is an existing basement under the house and it will be
utilized.
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Amy relayed that there is merit in making the new development totally
detached and preserving the historic stricture.
Roger clarified that the apartment is allowed but is not required.
Lisa's concern is the drip line of the building in its relationship to the existing
50 foot trees. The top of the roof is 31/32 feet and is approximately four feet
lower than the ridge of the tower on the Kuhn project. Another concern was
the stiarwell.
Suzannah opened the public hearing.
Melanie Roschko relayed to the public and board that the project does not
have to be approved and all of the FAR does not have to be granted based on
what is allowable. According to the standards, one and two are not met.
Regarding standard #3 she feels the project detracts from the historical
structure. She also feels that the new building is not compatible in any way
with the historic building. Preservation is of the entire site not just the
historic house. A lot of improvement has been made from the beginning.
Helen Palmer stated that this project is in the commercial core and has a
commercial meaning but the board should think as the core as being the heart
of Aspen. She feels that the development will change the heart of Aspen.
She stated with all the attached buildings to the historic house it might as well
be bulldozed. The shed is sitting where the shed sat when it was built and
should remain there. She entered a letter into the records.
A lettter from Sheldon Fingerman was entered in to the record as exhibit V
and Helen read the letter to the board.
Carl Bergman stated that the alley is decent now. He heard that the applicant
intends to extend the electrical lines to the transformer in the Miners Building
and the time has come when other people should share in the responsibility
and primarily putting their electrical transformers on their property as they did
in 1974 and not rip up the alley. Every project that comes along in the alley
is shoddily repaired.
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Joan Padget relayed that you will not see the historic house but that your eye
will go to the huge addition instead. She feels it is a visual issue that has
happened so much in this town. All our nice little cottages have huge
additions behind them. All the viewing is shown from the side. The ridge is
eleven feet.
Eve Homeyer relayed all of us have just about drove Aspen to death. Five
more years like the last ten it will be really comatose. In ten years it will be
another over grown ruined resort and people will wonder what is so
interesting like this town because it is like any other. We are squeezing the
very life out of the things that make Aspen. The more money is spent the
uglier it gets, the less distinctive it gets. It is a crying shame. (Audience
applauded)
Su Lum requested that the board deny the project.
Sara Garton realizes that development is committed on the parcel in order to
preserve the historic parcel; however, she would not want to see the third
floor and also see the applicant go through the GMQS application process.
Terry End stated that she was on the original HPC board and she hopes the
board does not approve the application.
Les Hoist stated there are no good guy or bad guys but that the system has
failed. It started failing when he was on HPC when they started letting
people build these massive buildings. The standards have not been met and it
should not be approved. In order for the board to do their job they need to
stick to the standards and then a community will be created where we all can
live.
Pat Hodges relayed that standard #2 has not been met. She lives next to the
former half house in which they now call it house and ½.
Larry Frederick stated the project is like the cartoon ~Where is Waldo'?
The historic house is overwhelmed by the massing. This separate building is
nothing more than a subdivision of the lot. The historic structure that sits on
the lot today is perfectly proportioned on that lot. Those lots were surveyed
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as 30 feet by 100 and that is the way it was 100 years ago and that is the way
it should remain.
W.R. Adam Walton relayed that the point was missed years ago. The entire
Aspen area should have been designated as an historic area treating everyone
as equal. He has a Victorian that he purchased in 1972. It is 118 years old.
There are only about nine Victorians in the commercial area. He likes to see
things left as they are but why should owners pay for someone else's
enjoyment. The owners can't afford to leave houses undisturbed. The taxes
keep going up but they aren't too high here yet. You need to look at in the
standpoint of building something. A lot of his friends have sold their houses
on the east side due to taxes. A few years ago Roxanne Eflin lobbied the
stated to give breaks on property taxes for historic houses. If the HPC really
wants to do something that is where to do it, give incentives to people to keep
their houses the way they are.
Margie Babcock who owns the Ski House stated that she got 2000 signatures
years ago to get the HPC going. She still has the Little Red Ski House and
she is concerned about what to do with it but she wants to preserve it. She is
afraid to put it on the market for fear someone will tear it down and put up
condominiums. She also feels a tax break should occur. She has a caretaker
living there.
Saul Barnett stated that the HPC regulations need enforced so when the
assessor looks at this property they know the use is limited and that the value
is related to what is there and not what can be done in the future. Victorians
are probably looked at by the assessor's office as a lot that has a potential to
have a 35 or 4,000 square foot house on it.
Suzannah closed the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Christie felt the proposal was a good improvement but in general was
opposed to the third floor as it does not meet the standards.
Maureen was opposed to the third floor and was not in favor of the
connector. She also felt that the standards have not been met.
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Lisa stated that it was a mis-characterization that the board was in favor of a
third story. From the beginning she stated that she would not support
anything more than a two story. The project does not meet the standards.
The site preservation that they argue for of 75%, the 25% coverage totally
overwhelms the 75%. It is one of the oldest buildings in downtown and the
HPC needs to make a stand. Over the years too much has slipped away.
Jeffrey stated that he is in support of some density in the commercial core.
He feels there needs to be a code amendment for historic lots even in the
commercial core. Architecturally, placing the new portion to the rear of the
site is appropriate and not attaching to the historic house is appropriate. The
massing is overwhelming. The undulation and fenestration is appropriate.
Susan relayed that an elevation of the Hopkins Street side has never been
submitted. This is the first time they have ever seen the historic house with
the new addition behind it. She could never support the massing. Taking out
the connector was commendable. The standards are not met and she has
never supported an addition on a one story house that is more than two
stories. This house is the only Victorian house close to the downtown that is
in exceptional condition. It is the only carpenter gothic in town.
Heidi relayed that this is a very difficult project in trying to do the right thing
for the historic house and also being fair to the applicant. Separating the
massing to the back of the lot is appropriate. She commended the applicants
for not touching the old house and shed. She stated possibly she would
support a third story if it were completely separate. She felt that in scale and
mass it is still over powering the historic house.
Roger stated that he would vote to deny based on the standards. He
addressed the public and in 1972 it was requested that the entire City of
Aspen be historic and it was denied. He has requested for ten years to have
review. HPC has a very limited ability. Unless the public gets behind the
city to request an historic district nothing further can happen.
Suzannah stated she has been in the minority in terms of the three stories and
connectors. There is the opportunity to develop this site in such a way that it
doesn't detract from the historic house and we have gone a long way in that
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direction. She still has concerns about the stairs going down to the historic
and the opening in the courtyard. She also has concerns about the second
story over hanging into the courtyard and feels that it is encroaching on to the
shed. The other issue is the character of the south faCade and it needs to be
extremely modest because that is the view plane behind the historic house.
That elevation needs to be studies with that in mind.
Jake stated that he understands the audience but he feels the compatibility
standard has been met. He was prepared to defend this scheme based on the
Secretary of Interior Standards. He was told that the HPC is not responsible
to those standards. He hopes I the future that the board will substantiate their
findings in a more concrete way instead of saying, "I feel like its too high".
John Davis asked for recommendations and if a two story is acceptable and
Suzannah stated that the concerns are in the memo that clearly define the
problems with the elimination of the third floor.
Jake asked what the acceptable height would be for the back building?
Maureen relayed that possibly the second floor could be lower since the
rooms are so high.
Jake said they could do that or take off the parapet that is 3 ½ feet high.
Suzannah stated that she does not want to speculate what will come next
without seeing drawings.
John Davis said they are probably willing to go to a two story but where do
they go from here.
David Hoefer said clearly a third story as it is proposed is not going to be
approved.
David Hoefer, Assistant City Attorney relayed to the board that the best
procedure would be to continue the item and give clear direction.
Jake said they are willing to withdraw the third floor from the application at
this time.
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Suzannah stated that a motion needs to be made based on the plans submitted
at this meeting and not speculate.
Jake: I am trying to address the four things in the memo.
Suzannah stated that the board needs to see a revised building and get a
memo on it and discuss it in a meeting.
Motion: Heidi moved to continue 302 E. Hopkins Ave. Conceptual
Development and public hearing to September 22, 1999 with the following
directions:
1. Eliminate the third floor.
2. Minimize the landing in the interior courtyard, and begin the stair rise at
the earliest point allowable by the UBC so that the visibility of the
stairway and courtyard will be reduced significantly.
3. Add an overhead door at the trash storage area.
4. HPC shall waive the "Residential Design Standards'."
5. The south and north elevations need a general restudy.
Susan second the motion.
Discussion on the motion.
Jake said he is willing to conform to all of the above points.
Maureen said if this were three feet lower it would make a lot of difference
from the south view plane, which we have never seen on a drawing.
Jake asked if Maureen would like to see the parapet taken off?.
Maureen said she could not design.
Christie stated that she would prefer no development on the property.
Susan reiterated Christie's statement.
Lisa has serious concerns about the height of the second floor. In a perfect
world she would not want development on the site at all.
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Roger stated that the board does not have to grant approval of the
development.
Maureen said the board might have a fairly good solution if the height is
brought down and if we say no development can it come back and be
development because it was stated by the public stated that it came before
HPC once before.
David informed the board that the board is not in a position to say no
development what-so-ever. The board is only in a position to say that the
development that is done has to be consistent with this criteria and if it is
consistent you can't say you do not want any development on this property.
Maureen stated the second floor height should be lowered in order
to make the south view plane less obtrusive on the historic structure.
Jeffrey said maybe the plate height could come down but he suggests keeping
the parapet in case of mechanical equipment etc. becoming and eye store.
Susan said the design does not meet the standards.
Heidi said the four conditions would work for her.
David said a set of plans must be submitted that the board can rely on before
conceptual can be granted.
Roger said the design does not meet the standards.
Suzannah stated that she can support the building with conditions but it is
very important to study the elevation and make the proportions right and
accommodate for mechanical equipment and she would hesitate to designate
a height reduction number on the second floor.
Jake stated that mechanical space is being provided in the basement.
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VOTE: Roger, no. Heidi, yes. Suzannah, yes. Susan, no. defJhey, yes.
Maureen, yes. Christie, no.
Motion carried 4-3.
121 N. FIFTH STREET - FINAL DEVELOPMENT
Matt Fink is the contractor and Mary Holley is the architect for the project.
They met at the site and there were two buildings moved to the site and
joined. Upon the site visit the original building had a six inch wall added
around the building to create an insulation pocket and electrical outlets. The
original building has been surrounded by an entirely new wall. When you
walk around the house you can see that the original fascia boards have been
extended. There is nothing on the outside of the house, all the clapboards are
new.
The entire house has been surrounded by an entirely new wall. When you
walk around the house you can see that the original fascia boards have been
extended. There is nothing on the outside of the house, all the clapboards are
new.
Mary said regarding the existing peonies they are mature and need to be
relocated. They intend to move the landscape forward in the same location.
The lilac and rose bush will stay in their existing area. The idea is to use the
same type of landscaping in an historic way, possibly add an aspen grove.
The landscaping will be kept as close to the original as possible.
The clapboard issue is more difficult due to the 5 ½ inch wall surrounding the
house. The previous owner surrounded the house due to the cold weather.
Mary relayed that they were trying to lower the floor level a foot. The
relationship to grade will stay the same. The side door would be fixed
because the floor level is a foot lower than the door. A few clapboards might
need added at this level. Metal flues will be used.
Mary walked through the elevations and explained the materials. Corrugated
metal siding will be used in conjunction with vertical wood siding. Asphalt
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flat shingles will be used. A few windows would be replaced in the historic
structure.
Susan asked if the glass in the historic windows was old? Mary stated that
there is old glass but one of the panes is cracked and will be replaced.
Matt said they will rack the windows up before removing them.
Amy said the building is what it is and a layer was added to the outside. Do
we say lets ignore that evidence and change it by pushing the window out.
Suzannah said if we are going to listen to Nori Winter we go back to the
period of significance.
Mary said she thought the siding was added in 1983. Right now you see a
window at the exterior wall and then you look through and see another couple
of panes. Since Guss (owner) added the window he didn't really change the
appearance of the relationship of the window to the exterior wall. Possibly
bring the historic windows out to the face of the wall.
Amy said if we pull off what Guss did that might not be possible because he
has compromised the framing. There are only a few boards left from the wall,
there is no structure.
Roger said the historic trim is gone so why not put the historic window on the
outside so at least you have some retention in the historic part of the house
visible to the public.
Jeffrey said the jam extension is probably the easiest.
Amy said if the board is trying to let people understand in the future what has
happened to a house why would we erase that by pushing the window out so
that it looks like it is real.
Suzannah relayed that the difference is they made the new framing flush with
the inside of the old wall as opposed to the opposite way which is what we do
now.
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Heidi said she would rather see the historic window come back out so it is
visible.
Suzannah said she would be inclined to leave the windows where they are at
the old 2 x 4 and do a thick recess on the outside. She feels that is more
descriptive of what has happened.
Amy said if you leave the window where it is you need to put a window on
the outside.
Mary said she feels no one will want to see the sides and roof of an historic
house torn off.
MOTION; Maureen moved to approve the Final Development for 121 N.
Fifth Street with the following 17 conditions:
1. The peonies, lilac, and yellow rose bush are typical of l?ictorian era
properties in `4spen and should be retained. They may be transplanted if
necessary because the house is being relocated, but they should be
replaced around the house in the same manner that they currently exist.
2. The location of the front door along 144. Bleeker Street will need to be
confirmed to the extent possible by framing evidence (once construction
begins') and photographs.
3. The design of the front door must be based on a historic example that
exists' in town, with drawings to be approved by staff and monitor.
4..411 existing historic windows in the house must be retained. 14&ere the
historic windows have previously been removed, new replacement
windows must match what existed originally, as shown in the drawings.
5. The HPC has granted the following variances: a 7' combined front and
rear yard setback variance, a 2.3' west sideyard setback variance, a 3'
west sideyard setback variance for lightwells, a 1' east sidyard setback
variance, and a 3.3' combined sideyard setback variances, finding that
the variances are needed to place the bulk of the new construction as far
back from the historic house as possible, and to accommodate the width
of the existing structure, and are compatible with the historic landmark
and the neighborhood.
6. HPC must discuss the new fozmdation treatment, which is proposed to be
clapboards and copper flashing patina.
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7. HPC staff and monitor must approve the type and location o~f all exterior
lightingfixture when selected.
8. New yques may be added in the location shown on the approved drawings.
The yques shall be metal pipe, detailed in the manner typical o~f miner's
cottages and approved by staff and monitor. A masonry, clapboard, or
metal sided stack is not approved.
9. Provide a relocation plan, detailing how the house will be securely stored
during relocation (windows covered with plywood, ~fencing around the
building), and a letter o~f credit in the amount o~f S30, 000 with submittal
~for building permit.
10. Submit a demolition plan, as part o~f the building permit plan set,
indicating exactly what areas o~f the historic house are to be removed as
part o~f the renovation.
11. Submit a preservation plan, as part o~f the building permit plan set,
indicating how the existing materials, which are to be retained, will be
restored. The requirement is to retain/repair all original materials and
replicate only those that are determined by HPC staff and monitor to be
beyond salvage.
12. No elements are to be added to the historic house that did not previously
exist. No existing exterior materials other than what has been
specifically approved herein may be removed without the approval o~f
staff and monitor.
13. There shall be no deviations~from the exterior elevations as approved
without first being reviewed and approved by HPC staff and monitor.
14. The preservation plan described above, as well as the language o~f
conditions l-J, 8-9, 13 and 14 will be required to be printed on the cover
sheet o~f the building permit plan set and all other prints made,for the
purpose o~f construction.
l J. The applicant shall be required to provide the contractor with copies o~f
the HPC resolution applicable to this project. The contractor must
submit a letter addressed to HPC staff as part o~f the building permit
application indicating that all conditions o~f approval are know and
understood and must meet with the Historic Preservation Officer prior to
applying~for the building permit.
16 All representations made by the applicant in the application and during
public meetings with the Historic Preservation commission shall be
adhered to and considered conditions o~f approval, unless otherwise
amended by other conditions.
17. Historic window detail to be approved by staff and monitor.
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All in favor, motion carried.
Roger, yes. Heidi, yes. Suzannah, yes. Susan, yes. defJhey, yes. Lisa, yes.
Maureen, yes. Motion passes 7-0
Meeting adjourned at 7:15 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy City Clerk
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302 E. HOPKINS AVE. - CONCEPTUAL, PARTIAL DEMOLITION, ON-SITE RELOCATION
(CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING) .................................................................................................... 1
121 N. FIFTH STREET - FINAL DEVELOPMENT ......................................................................... 11
16