HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19740115
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM" C.F.HOI':CKEL8.B.&L.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
Meeting was called to order by Acting Chairman Bruce Gillis at 5:10 p.m. with
Chuck Vidal, Bryan Johnson, Jack Jenkins, Spence Schiffer and Geri Vagneur. Al-
so present City/County Planner Herb Bartel and Assistant Planners Donna Baer and
John Stanford.
Schiffer made a motion to approve the minutes of December 18, 1973, seconded by
Johnson. All in favor, motion carried.
Election of
Acting
Chairman &
Vice Chairman
Gillis stated the Commission needed to elect and Act-
ing Chairman and Vice Chairman to last until June.
Schiffer nominated Gillis to continue as Acting Chair-
man of the Commission. Seconded by Johnson.
Vagneur nominated Schiffer as Acting Chairman, seconded
by Jenkins.
Vidal made a motion to close the nominations close.
Schiffer stated that he would like to decline, since
he felt that he had not been on the Commission long
enough to serve as Chairman.
Gillis elected Acting Chairman of the Commission u-
nanimously.
Vagneur nomated Schiffer for Vice Chairman of the Com-
mission, seconded by Johnson. All in favor.
Planning &
Zoning Commission
By-Laws
Gillis questioned the Commission on whether or not they
had had a chance to review the proposed by-laws.
Bartel stated that it would only be the first two pages
of the by-laws which actually apply to the Commission
and stated that the rest was Robert's Rules of Order,
which apply to all boards and commissions in the City.
Johnson pointed out that Section 4 specified that the
City Clerk would be the secretary of the Commission.
Johnson suggested the Commission amend the by-laws
to read "The City Clerk of the City of Aspen or the
Deputy City Clerk shall be the secretary of the Plan-
ning Commission..."
Johnson made a motion to approve the by-laws as amended,
seconded by Jenkins. All in favor,motion carried.
Grant-In-Aid
Application
Letter
Bartel stated that the purpose of this letter was to
complete the file for the County's application for
open space. Stated that the County has prepared an
application to the Bureau of Outdoor Recreation to ac-
quire approximately 21 acres of the Thomas property
for open space purposes adjacent to the land the City
has purchased. Bartel submitted maps showing the area
concerned.
Bartel stated that the procedure was for both Planning
and zoning Commissions to comment. It will go to the
regional agency, regional 12, for comment. Then it
will go to the State Planning Office. The State Divi-
sion of Parks will make its decision on the application
in April. If they approve it and receive Federal funds,
sometime after the fiscal year '74, the County could
go ahead with the purchase of that portion of the pro-
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
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FORiII~' C. r. H OECJ<;EL B. B. Ii L. ~O.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
perty. Stated that it is a letter of both City and
County Plannning & zoning Commission's support of
the Grant-in-Aid application. Pointed out that it does
not include the actual hospital site itself.
Schiffer made a motion for the Chairman to sign the
letter of support of the Grant-in-Aid application.
Motion seconded by Vagneur. All in favor, motion
carried.
PUBLIC HEARING
View Control
Chairman Gillis opened the public hearing on view
control.
Bartel submitted slides on view control. Stated that
they were somewhat different than the slides shown
in the study session held in November. Stated that
the Commission had requested not to hold the public
hearing until after the first of the year.
First aerial photograph showed all of the locations
with the exception of Glory Hole Park from which the
view corridors have been proposed.
Second slide was a telephoto shot from Glory
which is the one completed by City Council.
that was done in May of '73.
Hole Park,
Stated
Bartel stated that the Planning Office proposed that
the building heights be set so that elevations of the
buildings would not exceed the lines indicated on the
photographs.
Next slide showed the second location, which had also
been acted on by the Planning & zoning commission in
June of '73, Main Street corridor, near the Hotel Jer-
ome.
Bartel stated the inventory for view preservation was
done in 1971. Bartel stated that on all of the slides
with lines across the screen, the lower line is the
line proposed for preservation of the view plane, and
the upper line is the line of building heights allowed
by the present Code.
Next slide was the view corridor of Wagner Park, also
acted on in June of 1973.
Bartel pointed out that also proposed was a view cor-
ridor of Independence Pass from the southwest corner
of Rubey Park. Stated that this also was recommended
by the P & Z. The City Council scheduled a public
hearing, but that public hearing was not held so that
the Planning & zoning Commission could reconsider this
particular recommendation of the Planning Office.
Next slide, which had not been acted on by the P & Z,
was the view corridor from the Courthouse steps.
Following slide was the view corridor from the open
area east of the Courthouse. Stated that on this par-
ticular slide, the existing building height allowable
was not shown, but stated that it would totally block
the existing view of Aspen Mountain.
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FORM;O C.F,HOHKEla.B.81 L,CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
Bartel stated that one of the areas which the Planning
Office was interested in preserving views in 1971 was
the view of Independence Pass from the open lot just
to the east of the Courthouse. Stated that since that
time, the view is gone. Stated that this was an ex-
ample of what is happening and why it is important for
the Planning & Zoning Commission to make a decision on
the question of view preservation.
Next slide showed the view from Cooper Street where
the building was moved out on the land belonging to
the Ski Corps.
Bartel stated that the Wheeler Opera House is also pro-
posed for view preservation. Pointed out that the
Wheeler Opera House is on the register for historic
places in the City. Stated that last year $30,000 was
spent on restoration for two sides of the Wheeler.
Have estimated for the exterior only approximately an
additional $60,000 for historic restoration. Showed
slide with view proposal.
Bartel stated that on the Wheeler Opera House view
corridor, we have not only a view out to the Mountain,
but also a view from Wagner Park back to the Historic
Landmark, and obviously the view preservation program
would not maintain that lot as an open field, but it
would retain the significance of the Wheeler Opera
House as a landmark structure.
Next slide showed a proposed view corridor from the
Cooper Street mall area looking toward Aspen Mountain.
Next slide was approximately the same area, but a dif-
ferent block, Durant Street, an example of what the
building heights do as far as the view of Aspen Moun-
tain is concerned. Stated that this is not included
in the view preservation program, but is included as
an example of what the Planning Office thinks the con-
siderations are to maintain views.
Wagner Park, with a view of Independence Pass, is shown
on the Ordinance #19 map. Stated that the building has
been removed, so we have at this location a similar
situation to Glory Hole Park where the view has been
preserved.
Bartel stated that there are many other locations which
were included in the inventory in which specific pre-
servation techniques are not needed and panoramic views
are assured because of public ownership, such as the
view of Aspen Mountain from wagner Park, the view of
Aspen Mountain from the library, and the views up the
streets. Stated that the point is that the planning
Office is not trying to preserve only one type of view.
Concerned with views up the street, concerned with slot
views between buildings, concerned with panorama views
from the parks, such as Paepcke Park and Wagner Park.
Chairman Gillis stated that he would prefer not to
consider the two Rubey Park views in the discussion
at this meeting.
Bartel pointed out that the Planning Office had handed
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100 Leaves
FORM', C. F. HOECKEl B. S.& L. co.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
out a memo at the last meeting explaining why the Plan-
ning Office thought that this was important, what the
design considerations were. Further stated that the
planning Office, in addition to the memo, has a file
of some 20 exhibits which represent the work which
represent the work which has been done to date on view
preservation.
Bartel stated that, with respect to the Planning Office
position, is that the first consideration is a Plan-
ning one, and the Planning Office does not present a
proposal to the P & Z without showing it to the City's
legal counsel first. Bartel stated that he would not
want to eliminate any of these view considerations at
this point by Planning Office decision. Feel that if
they are eliminated because of political considerations
or because of legal considerations, that would be ok.
Stated that all of these view corridors were shown on
the Ordinance #19 map.
Bartel stated that one of the considerations at the
time of Ordinance #19 was to compile current plans
and Planning Office work, so the Planning Office has
included the Greenway Plan, the trail plan, the view
preservation plan, etc...
Schiffer questioned Bartel on why the Planning Office
had decided to opt for amendment of the zoning ordi-
nance rather than the purchase of view easements that
were recommended in the report given to the Commission.
Bartel stated that the original work that was done by
Adam Kravatsky and himself and the working maps which
are included in the 20-some exhibits, proposed view
corridors from a full range of places within the City,
many of which were private places. Stated that the
Planning Office felt that the proposals should be made
only from public places and that the reference to the
purchase of easements, at least for Planning purposes,
does not apply to the public places that are used for
focal points. Stated that in addition to that, on
each of the public places, they were selected because
of public investment or because of the concentration
of tourist activity or because they playa particularly
important function in maintaining Aspen's character,
keeping the countryside visible, giving the impression
of smallness. Stated that it is his position, as a
planning matter, purchase is not necessary. Stated
that the City Attorney has the final word in that mat-
ter.
Vidal requested that Bartel elaborate on the difference
between a view corridor from a public place as opposed
to a view corridor from a private place in terms of
whether it should be purchased or not.
Bartel stated that he felt that on a private place,
using an example, would be something like the view of
Aspen Mountain from the La Cocina restaurant. Would
not really be a place where there is a justification
of expenditure of public dollars. Pointed out that
the other extreme, a public place, Rubey Park for ex-
ample, $400,000 in the purchase of the land and the
transportation and park planning really uses that as
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FORM" C.F.HoJeCKELB.a.IIL.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
one of the focal points for the downtown area.
Vidal questioned the justification for payment of the
view corridor from that place. Questioned if the
Planning Office felt that if there is a significant
public investment in one place that the issue of the
view corridor and paying for that is not the same as
if you were creating a view for a private location.
Bartel stated that he felt the public investment was
a very important part of it, but felt the other part
is to maintain the character and the quality from
public places.
Vidal questioned Bartel on whether or not there is a
difference between public and private places as to
whether or not they should be paid for.
Bartel stated that if the City got into establishing
view corridors from private places there would be no
end to it.
Gillis questioned Bartel on how the Planning Office
justified having a view corridor from the Wheeler
which belongs to Mr. Shell.
Bartel stated that the City has placed that building
on the register for Historic places. The lot is as
much of the setting of the Wheeler as the buidling
itself. The expenditure for purchase of the building,
the expenditure for restoration of the building all
have some overlap to the adjacent property. The City
also, one day, would like to acquire that land.
Vidal stated that he agreed with the justification for
not paying for any view corridors for private land.
Stated he still did not understand the justification
for not paying for view corridors from public lands.
Bartel stated that he felt that just as zoning has its
primary responsiblity the protection of environmental
qualities, it also has as its responsiblity the pro-
tection of character, quality, setting, and, in this
case, those design elements are all important for the
tourist economy, which the zoning also has a respon-
sibility to foster.
Vagneur ~ated that she had a problem with Cooper Street,
Stated that the Commission had recommended to Mr. Mar-
cus that he acquire the rest of that City block if he
could to do a half-block development. If that, at the
end of that block is allowed to be 35' high, and that
is the limitation from that corridor, how could the
Commission in good faith ask him to do what the Com-
mission had recommended.
Bartel stated that the ordinance that was handed out
at the last meeting, not only proposed these corridors,
but also proposed an amendment to the view preservation
section of the zoning code which says that the areas
falling within these corridors are subject to PUD pro-
visions so that the Commission may vary the heights of
buildings, may vary open space requirements, may vary
lot areas through the PUD process so that the provision
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 50 C.F.HOECKELB.6.1I:l.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
is there for the flexibility. Further stated that the
Commission may waive those PUD requirements, and that
was put in specifically so that if the applicant de-
monstrates that he's taken all those things into con-
sideration, that he does not have to deal with all of
the time-consuming PUD provisions, and proceeds on
with the next step, provided that the P & Z makes that
exception.
Schiffer request Bartel explain to the audience exac-
tly what the specific numeric designations on the map
meant.
Bartel explained that within any view corridor, the
building height increase with increasing distance from
the focal point. Above the elevation of the focal point
the building heights vary - stated that the elevations
on the map were approximate.
Vidal questioned if the degree of inclination was the
same for all of the planes.
Bartel stated that it was not. Each has a separate
legal description which describes the extent of the
area covered and the angle involved.
Ken Hubbard, attorney from Holland and Hart, was pre-
sent representing Aspen Skiing Corporation, which has
some land in Block 90 which would be affected, and
also on behalf of Attorney Jim Moran representing
Curt Chase.
Hubbard stated that he felt, from the previous cor-
respondence when they went through the Hotel Jerome
view plane ordinance on the Bergman application, that
the Commission would have a good idea as to what their
position would be on the matter. Basically, they feel
that the land owner owns the air space above his land
and the Commission is telling him that he can't build
as high as his neighbor in the same zoning classifi-
cation in order that the public can enjoy these views.
Hubbard stated that he felt that in a sense, the City
would be taking his property, and the proposed ordi-
nance purports to be an amendment to the zoning Code,
so it would be part of the police power rather than
a taking. Felt that even putting all the view planes
into one ordinance, it does not affect everyone within
a zoning classification uniformly.
Hubbard stated, that as one author has stated, the most
common test for a taking is whether the act is designed
to benefit the public or to prevent harm, and if it's
the former, to benefit the public, it is a taking.
Hubbard also questioned whether the requirement that
affected lands be considered under PUD prevents the
act from being treated as a taking.
Hubbard stated that there is no assurance under an or-
dinance like this that there would be any concessions.
Hubbard referred to the language in the Colorado
Constitution which states in Article II, Section 15,
"Private property shall not be taken or damaged for
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
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FORM 'c, C. F.HOHKEL B. B.a L co.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
public or private use without just compensation."
Stated that he felt the landowners that are affected
by an ordinance like this are incurring damage to their
property for the benefit of the public. Stated that
they have found no cases which involve a view cor-
ridor ordinance, but stated that there are cases which
uphold scenic easement laws for the very reason that
they do provide compensation.
Hubbard further sited the analogy of the Airport Height
Restriction cases, mentioned by Moran in his letter to
the Commission, which have gone up to the U.S. Supreme
Court and have been decided in favor of the affected
landowners.
Hubbard stated that he thought there were possible
questions on the adequacy of the notice given and cer-
tain ambiguities in the ordinance and the maps, and
also the basic question of whether the ordinance can
really be understood by most of the people affected.
Hubbard suggest that the Commission approach the land-
owners the way you would in a condemnation case and
negotiate with them before the ordinance goes into
affect.
Gillis stated that he felt that would be an initiative
from the City Council rather than the Commission, and
stated that this was purely a planning decision and
not a legal question.
Hubbard stated that if the Commission felt that that
idea had any merit, a recommendation from the Commis-
sion to the City Council would have an affect on their
decision.
A member of the public questioned the Commission as
to whether or not the Commission had the intent to
take any legal considerations in their decision.
Gillis stated that he felt it should not be.
Vidal stated that he felt the Commission could respon-
sibly act with its eyes closed in total to other ele-
ments. Stated that he felt the variety of considera-
tions, both legal and planning, could not be easily
separated.
Vidal stated he felt it would be highly valuable for
the Commission to have information to the contrary,
that is, that the view corridors were not a taking.
Michael Kinsley was present, representing the Environ-
mental Task Force, and stated that he felt it would
be appropriate for the City Attorney to have a reply
to the argument on the taking.
Vidal stated that he did not feel that the Commission's
decisions relative to those kind of issues should be
postponed until you get into Court and then find out
whether or not it is legal.
Kinsley stated that from his point of view, he did not
feel the establishment of view corridors would be con-
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FORM '3 C. F. fIOECKE~ B. B. III L. CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & zoning
January 15, 1974
sidered a taking.
Gillis reminded the Commission that Bartel had stated
that this had gone through the City Attorney and has
passed with her approval.
A member of the public questioned Bartel how you could
tell by looking at the map where the lines end.
Bartel stated that by looking at the map, you really
could not tell, because that line projected can in-
tersect the mountain at some point.
Bartel explained that on the map there are two dis-
tances shown: (1) the distance from the focal point;
(2) the approximate building height at that distance
from the focal point.
A member of the Architects' Collaborative submitted
a letter to the Commission. Stated that they agree
that the study of view planes is an important item
for the City. Stated that the most important item
that affects the building on the land happens to be
a view corridor, and there has been no other item that
has been taken into account when you develope a piece
of land. Stated that if such legislation goes through,
it states that the view corridor will affect the height
of the buildings and nothing else will affect the
height. Questioned if there should be some type of
plan behind this view plane proposal, of which the
view plane ordinance is a part, rather than making
the view ordinance a separate entity that will control
all of the development of this land. Stated that the
Collaborative believes that there should be a method
by which a developer of lands in these affected areas
can make some sort of trade-off with the City, if he
can show that his land can be developed in such a way
that the view plane can go through and still preserve
the view. Stated that the view plane establishes a
rather rigid method of building. Stated that it will
give the developer a lot of problems and will not give
the City a good building.
Bartel answered those questions by reading the Section
of the view plane program that includes the amendment
to the zoning code itself.
"When any view plane, here and above estab-
lished, projects at such an angle so as to
reduce the maximum allowable building height
to below that otherwise provided in this Code,
all developments of the area so affected shall
proceed according to the provisions of (PUD
Section) so as to afford maximum flexibility
in building design with special consideration
of building bulk and height and open and ped-
estrian space, and similarly, to permit vari-
ations in lot area, lot width, yard and building
height requirements, including view plane height
limitations, provided, however, that the Aspen
Planning & Zoning Commission may exempt an ap-
plication from the requirements when any pro-
posed development satisfies the building de-
sign requirements above enumerated."
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100 Leaves
FORM '0 C. F. tWECKEL B. 3. !Ie L ~O.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
Bartel stated that he felt the Planning Office's in-
tent was not to say that we want to design buildings
automatically within these colored areas of the maps.
Stated that he felt the challenge was available to the
landowner and to the architect to see what they can
do within these basis, and that is included as a spe-
cific amendment as part of the program.
Bartel further stated that the intent of the building
permit review process was to enable the Commission to
further study to prepare amendments to the Zoning Code
and the Zoning Map, of which this is one.
A member of the public stated that he felt the Com-
mission would not be taking into account all the other
items which affect a piece of property.
Bartel stated that the Planning Office concern was
that the view corridor, once lost, is not likely to
reappear. Further stated that the City does not at
this time have a whole design plan, but has the view
preservation element of one and the historic preser-
vation element is one that is also in process. The
mall element is in process. Feel the whole question
of the bulk, scale, height of buildings is a separate
matter. May find that the City can adopt specific
height, bulk regulations at a later date, but at this
point, this is the best the Planning Office has to of-
fer.
A member of the public stated that the uniformity of
building heights, he felt, was not good. Stated that
he felt the City could have some high-rise buildings
if they regulated that with open space at the ground
area. Stated he could see no reason why there could
not be some high-rise buildings penetrating the view
planes and yet still maintain the view planes.
Kinsley stated that the community has stated very
clearly three times in the last 16 months that they
want to control growth and this is an element of that.
Stated that the Environmental Task Force is voting
unanimously to support this proposal.
Kinsley then read a brief statement from the ETF:
"This action is essential to preserving the
character of our mountain community. The pres-
sure to develope Aspen properties to maximum
height will eventually create the canyon-syn-
drome found in most cities. In Aspen the can-
yons would be three and four stories deep. At
that point, Aspen would become a truly urban
experience. Our mountains would become ob-
scured from our view. We feel that view pre-
servation is a valid public purpose, consis-
tent with community needs. We feel that it
is appropriate for the City of Aspen to exer-
cise this police power for the public welfare,
and that to discourage this ordinance would
create a potential harm to the character of
Aspen, which is essential for its survival as
a resort community, and we support it."
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Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
Another member of the public stated that he was in
favor of the view ordinance, but it seems to him that
the way that they are layed out, there will be some
parcels within these view ordinances that will bear
the brunt of the damage or the taking. Feels that it
is unfair to have a taking of these parcels and make
certain individuals bear the brunt of the cost of the
paying of these view corridors for the public benefit.
Should be some way that the public at-large pays for
the benefit that they will receive.
Jenkins stated that with negotiation and understand-
ing of the problems on both sides, feels it is not
impossible to work out a solution. Sited Bergman's
building and the compromise that was worked out.
Jenkins further stated that the Commission had the
basis of some working agreements that could be in-
cluded in the zoning after Ordinance #19.
Schiffer stated that he felt the legal considerations
were really relevant.
Kinsley stated he felt there was a need for the City
to rebutt some of the points that had been made at
this meeting.
City Attorney Sandra Stuller explained that when this
matter first came up to consideration, it was last
April. Stated that a great deal of research had been
done, and again pointed out, there are absolutely no
cases in point of view planes and the taking issue.
Stated that she had gone to Denver, and Denver also
has a view plane ordinance shooting various view
planes over highly dense or commercial areas in the
city from public areas. Stated that there was one
challenge to the view planes on appeal. The exact
taking issue was not discussed. Stated that it went
up on a building permit question that was a fairly
mundane issue at that time.
Ms. Stuller stated that her problem as City Attorney,
is that the Commission is not really being posited
with legal questions here. What is being offered to
the Commission are summary legal propositions which
the commission, as laymen, can rebutt. Pointed out
that it is a matter of degree: how public the nature
of the taking is versus how private the burden is.
Every time you pass a zoning ordinance you are taking
someone's land and their right to develope it the way
they want to.
Ms. Stuller stated that the second level of consider-
ation is the offer Hubbard made to talk about cases.
Stated that she could not talk to the Commission about
cases she was not prepared to do that at this point
and felt that the Commission was not prepared to do
that at this point either.
Ms. Stuller stated that the third level of consider-
ation is whether or not the City Attorney could give
the Commission a point blank yes-or-no, it's legal or
not legal to each specific view plane as it's platted
for the Commission's consideration at this meeting.
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fORM" C.F.HOECKELB.8.& L. co.
Regular Meeting
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January 15, 1974
Stated that nobody could do that.
Ms. Stuller pointed out that evertime you set up a
review procedure, you are exchanging consistency and
predictability for flexibility.
Ms. Stuller stated that she felt the elements that
will be taken into consideration if anything is liti-
gated is how public the nature of the viewing area is.
How important and how unique is the viewed area, and
what are the possibilities of compensating people in
the interim. Stated that the Planning Office has
tried to concentrate the view planes from highly
public areas because they are heavily trafficed, it's
important that the City preserve its investment in
these public areas, etc... Tried to preserve views
that were unique.
Concerning preserving the views from public places ver-
sus private places. Stated that in the latter situ-
ation, you are causing a loss to one private enter-
prise for the benefit of another private enterprise.
The public element is not there.
Bartel explained that one consideration was that the
City boundary is such that where some situations oc-
cur, the City will not have jurisdiction.
Ms. Stuller stated that, as Bartel stated, all these
things come through her office first, and extensive
research was done on the legitimacy of the question.
Stated that the City was going to try to make these
as amenable as possible. Stated that she was con-
vinced that the premise was legitimate.
Hubbard stated that he felt the odds were more in
favor of this being considered a taking than not,
and if that is the situation, why not, then, con-
sider alternatives, and the alternative he suggested
was negotiating with affected landowners in advance.
Ms. Stuller stated that the Council, if they really
felt someone was being heavily burdened by a view
plane, would not even worry that much about an at-
tack on the ordinance, but would really like to hear
the applicant and his proposition and negotiate for
pay.
Further pointed out that the taking question, you do
not lose your right to compensation for taking after
the ordinance.
Ms. Stuller stated that she felt another point is that
any action that the P & Z would take at this point
would just put the ordinance in a hole for a year.
Ordinance enactment would be another process, and may-
be the City Council should actively seek each of the
landowners that we can anticipate are going to be
seriously affected and see if they have any concerns
at this time.
Pete Stone was present, and stated that he felt that
he was more affected than anyone else in Aspen.Stated
that they were in the middle of a decision concerning
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FORM" C.F.HOECKELB.B.!Il.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & zoning
January 15, 1974
the purchase of three more lots that would be affected
by a view corridor.
Ms. Stuller pointed out that in the appeals that they
review, there is a possibility that one could be exem-
pted from the view plane established.
Pete Stone request the City Attorney to offer some jus-
tification for this confiscation of land.
Ms. Stuller stated that the justifications are politi-
cal, etc. Stated that as for the legal theory, as
for the most part, it is a weighing. Further reminded
Stone that the Council is the only body that can nego-
tiate for compensation.
Assistant Engineer Ed Del Duca pointed out that the
view planes were also of some benefit to those affected
by it, since their views would also be protected by the
view planes.
Vice Chairman Schiffer closed the public hearing.
Vidal pointed out that in the Commission's and the
staff's program was an attempt to get the Architects'
Collaborative to address themselves to the massing
problem of the core area. Stated that the necessary
tools are in existence right now to address themselves
to the view corridors. Would like to take a view cor-
ridor map and have the P & Z establish it as a policy
in the Ordinance #19 review, that the Commission would
consider these elements and maintain these views, at
the same time, suggest that maybe there is no rush to
implement this right away.
Vidal stated that he did not feel that the view plane
consideration should be taken by itself. Felt it
should be in context with the whole massing analysis.
Bartel stated that at a previous meeting when the Ute
Avenue area was under consideration, the Planning Of-
fice tried to make the point that they have priorities,
some of which are geographical while others include
such things as the rewriting of the Zoning Code, a
new zoning map, etc... Stated that he felt it would
be better to proceed with these on a one-by-one basis
so that they are not suddenly giving the public a mass
of proposals and land use considerations to digest at
the end of the Ordinance #19 period.
Bartel further stated that the Commission now has, un-
der Ordinance #19, the opportunity to consider views.
Feel that if the Commission hopes to enter into dis-
cussions on trade-offs with landowners, that they can
not wait until the end or the Ordinance #19 period to
do that since they will be talking about some very
specialized design considerations, one of which is
historic zoning as well as a new zoning map and new
zoning text for the entire county. Stated that it is
his position that as the information is completed by
the Planning Office, it should be presented to the
P & Z, the P & Z should act on it if they wish.
vidal stated that he still could not see the necessity
for rushing this.
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January 15, 1974
Bartel stated that he did not feel the project had been
hurried. Stated that he work had been done in '71,
and that much work had been done on it since then.
Vagneur stated that it was her interpretation that the
commission was voting on or recommending to the Council
that we approve all of the view plane corridors at this
time, with the exception of the ones that have already
been acted on.
Bartel stated that the view corridors that the P & Z
has not acted on included: (1) the two from the court-
house; (2) the Wheeler Opera House; (3) Wagner Park;
and (4) the Cooper Street Mall proposed exemption.
Vagneur stated that she could not recommend the Wheeler
Opera House for the reason that part of it is based on
the ownership of private land.
Bartel stated that it was basically the same concept
that existed on Main Street. Stated that it was real-
ly the public place, the street and the sidewalk when
they talk about the land adjacent to the Wheeler.
Stated that the Commission could consider them on an
individual basis.
Bartel stated that the first considerations is the
amendment to the zoning code, the PUD provision. The
second consideration would be the view planes recom-
mended.
Johnson stated that he supported the view planes and
felt that they were an important enough consideration
for the entire community that they are worth saving.
Jenkins stated that he, too, supported the view planes.
Would like to make very positive point that the Com-
mission include in the final zoning procedure after
Ordinance #19 is that the Commission is capable of
giving consideration to particular locations and par-
ticular sites that warrant that consideration.
Schiffer stated that he, too, agreed with the principle
but feels there are very relevant legal considerations.
Stated that he felt there were probably alternative
ways to do the same thing in a more equitable way.
Stated he would like to see a recommendation to the
Council to approve this conditioned on their directing
the City Attorney to make an extensive legal investi-
gation to insure that the City is not doing something
that they should not, legally. Realize that there are
probalby very relevant considerations concerning taking
of private property, and that troubles him.
Johnson made a moiton to recommend to City Council the
doption of the view plane ordinance. Seconded by Jen-
kins.
Bartel stated that procedurally he would like to see
the Commission direct the Planning Office to prepare
a resolution recommending them, which the Planning Of-
fice would bing back for reconsideration by the Com-
mission.
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Shciffer stated that he would approve this subject to
the condition that the Council first require that the
City Attorney make a thorough, lengthy investigation
as to legal issues involved, present that in brief
form, and the Council make a determination after they
have that input.
.
Main Mort.on
Roll call vote - Schiffer, nay; Jenkins, aye; Johnson,
aye; Vagnuer, nay; Vidal, nay. Motion NOT carried.
Jenkins made a motion that the previous motion be a-
mended to include the request that the City Council
have the City Attorney make an extensive investigation
to re-affirm her position on the matter and make that
presentation to the Council at the time that this reso-
lution is presented to them. Seconded by Vidal.
Roll call vote - Schiffer, aye; Jenkins, aye; Johnson,
aye; Vagneur, nay; Vidal, nay. Motion carried.
Concept Plan for
ll~ Acre Rio Grande
Property
Bartel stated that the planning Office had prepared
the concept plan for the ll~ acres of the Rio Grande
Property, and stated that before they put it up for
public reaction, the Planning Office wanted to submit
it to the Commission.
Further stated that since the meeting will probably
be continued until Thursday, perhaps the Commission
would like the Planning Office to make its study ses-
sion presentation of the site plan for the Rio Grande
Property on Thursday.
Schiffer questioned what to do about the Ute Village
Condominiums since a decision must be made at this
meeting.
Ms. Baer pointed out that the people representing the
Third Generation project were from out of town, so
request that their presentation be allowed for this
meeting.
Commission agreed to hold a study session on the Rio
Grande Property on Thursday and also to continue this
meeting until Thursday.
Ute Village request a continuation to the February 5th
meeting, both Ordinance #19 and Subdivision. Hoping
to see Planning Office recommendations before the hear-
ing.
Ms. Baer pointed out that the agenda for February 5th
was a full agenda. Commission and applicant agreed
to continue the Ute Village request for conceptual
approval and preliminary plat to February 7th.
Third Generation
Building -
Conceptual
Presentation
Johnson made a motion to continue the meeting, with
the exception of this presentation, until Thursday,
January 17th at 5:30 p.m. Seconded by Jenkins. All
in favor, motion carried.
Study session was scheduled for Thursday, January 17th,
at 4:30 p.m. for the ll~ acre Rio Grande Property.
Applicant explained that they were before the Commis-
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Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
sion both under Ordinanae #19.
Vagnuer stated that she was withdrawing from the Com-
mission for this presentation due to conflict of in-
terest, stated that she had sold the applicant the
property and advised them what to put on the property.
Ms. Baer stated that the site of the proposed project
was at Hunter and Hyman. Stated that presently on
the site is the little red nursery. Stated that it
is on 4,500 square feet of lot. It is a commercial
use.
Neil Pitman, applicant for the project, submitted pro-
posed plan to the Commission. Stated that they would
be set back 10' from the property line for the open
space, running the entire length of the lot (l~ lots).
Stated that this would be 28.8% open space. Further
stated that the total square footage of the building
would be 6746 square feet, made up of three retail
spaces.
Pitman stated that the applicant, as interior design-
ers, plan to locate in one space of the building, which
will have a balcony up above. Stated that one of the
other spaces would be occupied by a men's clothing
store. Stated there would be a public patio of open
space, which adds to the amount of open space. Stated
that the third space had not been leased.
Pitman stated that they have complied with the height
regulation and preserving the view of Aspen Mountain.
Feel that this project would be a great improvement
to Aspen. Stated that this area has not been recom-
mended by the Historical Preservation commission for
historical designation.
Jenkins stated that as long as the uses comply with
the C-C uses, who rents the spaces is academic any-
way.
Pitman stated that the applicant is willing to go along
with whatever the parking regulations in the C-C dis-
trict turn out to be. Would agree to purchase parking
from the City.
Ms. Baer stated that presently the parking requirement
is one space per thousand square feet. Stated that
the way the City has been doing it since the law suit,
the applicant agrees in a contract to purchase parking
as required by the existing Code if the City would win
the appeal.
Ms. Baer stated that the Planning Office recommends the
building and feel it satisfies the recommendations of
Ordinance #19. Stated that the Planning Office had
informed the applicant that they had been consistently
asking applicants to provide employee housing.
vidal stated that he disagreed with that request.
Pitman stated that with a building of this size on this
size lot, it makes it highly impractical for the appli-
cant to attempt to put any housing in the buildng.
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Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 15, 1974
Stated that it was not financially feasible. Stated
that they had worked on the concept of having a total
commercial building from the very beginning of the pro-
ject.
Ms. Baer asked the applicant how many employees would
be needed to serve this project.
Applicant stated that there would possibly be nine
employees.
Johnson questioned Ms. Baer on how many units the Plan-
ning Office expected the applicant to provide in the
building.
Ms. Baer stated that she could see that the applicant
could hardly have nine.
Vidal stated that he felt the employee housing question
should be similar to the parking question in that the
applicant should be able to buyout housing. Felt
that housing in the core area was not consistent.
Schiffer stated that he did not feel the employee hous-
ing was a relevant question in this case. Stated that
it would just create additional problems.
Johnson stated that he agreed with Schiffer.
Jenkins stated that he, too, felt that this particular
building should not be required to provide employee
housing.
Jenkins stated that he was concerned with the final
development of the entire block and the general con-
figuration.
Vagneur stated that there would be l~ lots between this
project and the Post Office.
Ms. Baer pointed out that this project must go before
the Historic Preservation Commission between the Con-
ceptual presentation and the preliminary presentation.
Jenkins made a motion to approve the conceptual presen-
tation of the Third Generation project and that the
parking consideration and the amount of parking is not
part of this approval and that it is subject to re-
evaluation at the preliminary stage. Motion seconded
by Johnson. All in favor, motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING-
8040 Line
Bartel stated that the earliest possible date for this
public hearing would be February 19th. Stated that
Council has passed this on first reading.
Bartel pointed out that at the time the P & Z recom-
mended that ordinance to Council, there were three
considerations: (1) that the line be surveyed, which
it has been; (2) that there be a voluntary moratorium;
(3) that there be a review procedure established so
that along the line we can better place building sites.
Bartel stated he would like the Commission to read it
and then, if they would like, to set a study session
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January 15, 1974
on it.
Johnson made a motion to set the public hearing on the
8040 Greenline for February 19, seconded by Vagneur.
All in favor, motion carried.
Bartel reminded the Commission that the meeting would
be continued until 5:30 p.m. on Thursday, but that
the Commission would be meeting at 4:30 to go over
the site plan on the ll~ acre area.
Vagneur made a motion to adjourn the meeting, seconded
by Johnson. All in favor, motion carried. Meeting ad-
journed at 7:25 p.m.