HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19740117
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
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~O~M" C. F. HOECKEL 6. H. II l. '-'0.
continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & zoning
January 17, 1974
Meeting was called to order at 5:40 p.m. by Chairman Bruce Gillis with members
Spence Schiffer, Chuck Vidal, Bryan Johnson, Jack Jenkins and Geri Vagneur.
Also present City County Planner Herb Bartel and Assistant Planners Donna Baer
and John Stanford.
Brinkman Building
Remodel -
Preliminary & Final
Ms. Baer reminded the Commission that this project was
the remodel of the Aspen Lumber Company.
David Hauter, architect for the project, stated that
the project was basically unchanged, with the excep-
tion that the restaurant was a bit smaller. Stated
that there was one real estate office that the appli-
cant was committed to and that the rest of the pro-
ject would consist of retail area and restaurant with
a central mall and sky-light over it.
Brinkman stated that she had informed all the busi-
nesses who were committed to leasing space that they
would be unable to provide parking. Ms. White stated
that the lots could sit there the way they were for
the next ten years. Brinkman stated that she suggested
to Ms. White that in the summer the back lots could be
made into a park, and stated that that would increase
the flow of people into the building and also improve
the appearance of the area.
Ms. White further informed Ms. Brinkman that there
were no improvements necessary on the back lots. Ms.
Brinkman stated that she felt she should improve the
area in some way, by either landscaping or something
to enhance the lot.
Ms. Brinkman suggest that during the winter, some sort
of ice bar and skating could possibly be put in the
empty lots.
Jenkins stated that the Commission was not requiring
the applicant to do anything with those lots, but
stated that they would like to be involved in whatever
was decided to be done with them.
Gillis stated that he felt the project looked good and
suggest that before the applicant receives an occupan-
cy permit, they return to the Commission with the plan
for that vacant land.
Hauter pointed out that there still was the possibility
that the applicant would do nothing with the lots.
Schiffer questioned if the Commission would have a
say in the matter after it is approved under Ordinance
U9.
Ms. Baer stated that the Commission could not, unless
the applicant had to get a building permit for those
lots. Further stated that she felt if the applicant
agreed to come back as a condition of this approval
it would be possible.
Ms. Baer stated that the City can pull an occupancy
permit in order to enforce the uses which have been
decided upon under Ordinance K19.
Schiffer stated he would like to approve that area as
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continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 17, 1974
a park, with the design of the park to be approved by
the Commission at a later date.
Jenkins stated that he did not feel it was fair to
limit the use of the land by some arbitrary decision.
Felt the applicant had not made up their mind yet.
Felt the Commission would just like to look at what
they decide to do with the lot.
Hauter stated that whatever the applicant decided to
do with that lot, would be willing to come before the
Commission for a presentation.
Hauter stated that he did not understand why it would
necessarily be conditional on this approval that the
applicant would be required to do something with the
vacant lot.
Ms. Brinkman stated that she had discussed with the
City Building Inspector the possibility of partial
occupancy of the building as it is brought up to Code.
Stated that Meyring had agreed that it would be okay.
Ms. Baer stated that the Engineering Department would
like the applicant to agree to join the future side-
walk districts, if the sidewalk is put in or replaced
around the building.
Ed Del Duca, Assistant City Engineer, estimated the
cost of the sidewalk to be $300.
Johnson made a motion to approve the remodel with the
stipulation that the applicant does agree to join any
future sidewalk improvement district and that any res-
taurant within the project be fitted for gas-fire af-
ter burners as recommended in the Air pollution Study
and that a mutual agreement that the Commission would
hope that the applicant would come back before the
Commission with any plan for the vacant lot. Motion
seconded by Schiffer. All in favor, motion carried.
CDES Building -
Conceptual
Presentation
Schiffer stated that there was a possibility that he
would have a conflict of interest, due to the fact
that Jim Daggs is his accountant. Request the Com-
mission decide if this would constitute a conflict of
interest.
General concensus of the Commission was that a con-
flict of interest was not involved.
Ms. Baer located the site of the project for the Com-
mission. Pointed out that it is on the fringe of the
Central area. Stated that presently, it is a vacant
lot.
Robin Molny, architect, was present representing Daggs,
Eubank, Coates and Shellman who propose to build an
office building on this site.
Molny pointed out that there were 3 lots with 9,000
square feet total area. Reviewed plans with the Com-
mission. Stated that there was a 10' setback as re-
quired by Chapter 24.
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FORM '0 C. F. HOECKE~ 8. B. a L. co.
Continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & zoning
January 17, 1974
Molny pointed out the open space for the Commission
and the location of an antique shop of approximately
1,000 square feet, the area devoted to Mr. Coate's
operation.
On the second floor, pointed out the location of Dwight
Shellman's Office and the first level of the Daggs-
Eubank operation. Pointed out the third floor, which
would have a roof line of approximately 33'.
Molny stated that in each case, the applicant was 2ro-
viding expansion space which they intend to lease for
the time being until expansion becomes imminent.
Pointed that the allowable floor area ration is 18,000
square feet above grade and are only asking for 15,552.
Stated that the open space requirement is 2,250 Sq. Ft.
but are providing 3,168 sq. ft.
Molny pointed out that the Planning Office recommended
that no parking be provided on the site. Further
stated that Coates had indicated that he would prefer
to have parking. Further stated that the basement use,
as contemplated, is for storage and for probably a
sculpture gallery or something similar.
Jenkins stated that at the conceptual stage, he had
no objections.
Schiffer questioned if the applicant would be subject
to subdivision regulations for condominiumizing.
Molny stated that it would.
Ms. Baer stated that first they would have to check
out the design requirements and then they would have
to return to the Commission under that, or they might
choose to subdivide. Stated it might be in the ap-
plicant's best interest to do so. Further stated
that if the design requirements are met, the appli-
cant could come before the Commission for an exemp-
tion to subdivision.
Bartel stated that he had discussed with the applicant
the general housing problem, and stated that if we
cannot get some solutions to the housing problem as
we go along, eventually we end up with a situation
where, because the problem is so severe, the govern-
ment is forced into doing something about it. In-
dicated to the applicant that he did not feel with
the design of this particular building and the allo-
cation of floor space that it was very well suited
for units within the building itself, but feels that
the Planning Office had to continue to address the
problem of employee housing where we are creating new
office or retail spaces and ask that they indicate
what they felt they could do so that the Commission
could consider aside from using a portion of the
actual building.
Bartel stated that the concern is not so much within
the Commercial area as it is to provide housing for
the increase in office space and retail space. Bar-
tel stated the housing need not be in the central core.
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Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 17, 1974
Molny stated that the applicant would prefer for this
housing to be for their employees. Stated the ap-
plicant would be willing to either build, buy or lease
space. Stated that there was a timing problem, but
would assume that if everything went through, at the
time final application for a building permit were
made, they would, at that point, be able to satisfy
the requirement. Stated that the applicant had studied
putting units in this building, and in this particular
case, it was very incompatible with the function of
the building.
Bartel stated that he did not feel that the City could
require that all employees have housing as a condition,
but felt that the basement floor, in this case, could
accommodate the six unlimited units, and feels that
that is an appropriate number.
Molny pointed out that the Daggs operation presently
leases three apartments for their staff, and are in-
terested in perhaps coming up with some ideas beyond
their own project.
Gillis stated that as far as the parking was concerned,
after next week the Commission will have a better di-
rection from the Council after the study session, and
would prefer to hold that back as a condition at this
point, that the decision would be made at a later date.
Ms. Baer stated that the Planning Office felt, in the
Central area, parking should be put out on the streets
where it can be managed by the City. Stated that in
this case, it would be necessary to figure out how
much on-site parking it generated. Feel that the
number would be too great to provide on-site parking.
Would be undesirable for the City and the applicant.
Stated that even if the Commission did that, they
have not avoided the auto emmission problem and the
recommendation of the Air Quality Study.
Vagneur stated that she felt street parking was not
adequate.
Molny stated that if you provide off-street parking,
that at best, the building occupants would be using
it.
Jenkins stated he felt the City had made a fundamental
decision when they bought the parking lot and would
not like to see on-site parking.
Johnson stated that he would like to see something
like a 15-minute zone parking.
Bartel stated that he felt the Commission needed to
establish on the housing question, at this point, that
it will not be on the premise.
Vagneur made a motion to accept the project in its con-
ceptual presentation, but that the Commission will es-
tablish a policy on parking and housing, not on the
premises, in the near future. Motion seconded by
Jenkins.
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Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 17, 1974
Continued Meeting
Molny questioned if it was the concensus of the Com-
mission that the amount of housing that the applicant
is discussing is satisfactory if it is required in the
end.
Main Motion
All in favor, motion carried.
Bartel pointed out that at one point, the applicant
stated that all they wanted was the conceptual re-
view, and from that point it could go to the Commit-
tee to help and if that is the direction the applicant
goes, the next presentation could be scheduled when
they are ready.
Hibberd/Durant
Houses- Conceptual
Presentation &
Preliminary Plat
Fred Hibberd and Attorney Ron Austin were present
representing this project.
Hibberd gave a brief history of the project to this
point.
Hibberd explained that the applicant would be moving
and replanting approximately 150 Aspen trees and will
plant 100 small spruce and lodgepole in the same tract.
Gillis questioned Hibberd as to whether or not this
would be hand excavation.
Hibberd stated that it would be done with a rubber-
tired backhoe.
Austin pointed out that the intent of these houses is
that they will not require an automobile, due to their
location. Stated that Hibberd had provided parking
according to the zoning.
Hibberd pointed out that the main access is by ele-
vator, in addition to several walkways which would
lead to trams and steps.
Austin stated that the applicant was here for the
conceptual stage of Ordinance #19 and preliminary plat
review under subdivision. Stated that if the appli-
cant was approved under the conceptual presentation,
then would proceed under subdivision alone.
Ms. Baer pointed out that the applicant had made every
effort to investigate the suitability of the site.
Stated that the Planning Office position was this:
In order to render the site suitable for residential
sale, excessive engineering and artificial devices
needed are unacceptable to the extent they are re-
quired. Further stated that the maintenance would be
a considerable problem for the future buyers.
Ms. Baer stated that the Planning Office was recom-
mending that this site is unsuitable under 20-seven
five of the subdivision regulations that no land shall
be subdivided for residential use which is held by
the Planning Commission to be unsuitable for such use
by reason of, in this case, the drainage, topography,
health, safety and welfare.
Jenkins stated that his position was the same as the
Planning Office.
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FORiIl\O C.F.HOECKEL6.B.IlL.CJ.
Continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
January 17, 1974
Johnson stated that he, too, agreed with the Planning
office.
Austin again stated that the houses would not add to
the traffic problem in Aspen. Stated that the engi-
neering reports the applicant had submitted were evi-
dence that the site could be made safe. Stated he
felt the position of the Planning Office was not ten-
able.
Ms. Baer stated she felt the Commission must make a
policy as to what extent a developer can engineer a
site.
Ms. Baer further pointed out that the site had been
cut and cribbed and that in the summer, one could
very clearly see the erosion.
Schiffer questioned if their would be access to the
site for emergency vehicles.
Ms. Baer stated that a standpipe with a hose in a
cabinet would be in almost every house, or spaced
periodically among them. Further stated that the fire
department had stated that they did have access.
Johnson stated that he could imagine situations where
the site would be inaccessible.
Chairman Gillis opened the public hearing.
Jenkins made a motion to close the public hearing,
seconded by Johnson. All in favor, motion carried.
Jenkins made a motion that both the conceptual pre-
sentation and the preliminary plat for the Hibberd/
Durant House be denied. Motion seconded by Johnson.
Schiffer stated that he wished to abstain from the
vote, having not been present at other presentations
of the project and having not seen the site.
Vagnuer abstained for the same reasons.
Main Motion
Johnson, Jenkins and Chairman Gillis voted aye.
Motion carried.
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Continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & zoning
January 17, 1974
Sketch Plan
Referrals
Ms. Baer pointed out that the subdivision regulations
required that subdivisions within a certain distance
of a municipality be submitted for their review and
comments to the County Planning & Zoning Commission.
Fritz Benedict -
Stillwater
Property
Bartel further explained that the County is required
to refer to the City any subdivision within a three
mile radius of the City's boundary. Stated that the
Commission did not have to recommend approval or dis-
approval or even make any comments.
Ms. Baer pointed out that the location of the site
was on Fritz Benedict's Stillwater Property. Pointed
out an existing gravel pit that was to be made into a
lake.
Ms. Baer stated that there would be 350 units. Stated
that it would include a health center, part of which
will be done in conjunction with Dr. Morgan for general
health and mental welfare, along with some research.
Stated there would be townhouses, hotel-type units,
10 single-family units and 10 employee housing. Also
includes tennis courts and trails.
Schiffer questioned what type of time span the appli-
cant was discussing.
Ms. Baer stated that the applicant was willing to phase
the project. Stated it would also include additional
offices. Stated that Ute Avenue would be used for
emergency access.
Applicant stated that the 350 units includes the 10
single family residential homes plus 10 employee units
to be built within the office park. Stated that the
office park is really not proposed for any kind of
development at this time - would merely like to reserve
that space within a PUD or within subdivision for fu-
ture development if need demanded. Further stated that
the indoor tennis court includes apartments on plan,
but stated they have since been deleted.
Ms. Baer pointed out that the site was 137 acres.
Applicant pointed out that 85% of the total site area
would be open space. Further stated that there were
19 acres, basically defined by the meadow area around
the bend in the river, that are within the 100-year
flood plain. Stated that would be 58 acres left when
you subtract the flood plain and the over-40% slopes
on the site.
Gillis questioned if all utilities would be underground
and the applicant replied that they would.
Applicant submitted site plan for the Commission's re-
view.
Applicant stated the parking area would be depressed
with retaining walls on both sides. Further discussed
the site drainage. Stated there would be no on-site
drainage.
Applicant explained that prime access to the project
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Continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & zoning
January 17, 1974
would be on Highway 82. Pedestrian and emergency ac-
cess would be from Ute Avenue.
Johnson questioned how large the hotel complex would
be.
Applicant stated there would be 330 units in that area.
Ms. Baer stated that there would be 126 dwelling units
in apartment, hotel, health institute complex, 106
townhouses for permanent residents and 100 employee
housing units.
Applicant stated that they had guaranteed in the ap-
plication 10% employee housing.
Ms. Baer pointed out the Planning Office concern with
highway impact and air pollution. Stated it was sub-
ject to negotiation. Pointed out there was a problem
with the water.
Gillis questioned if the applicant had any plans for
acquiring Forest Service permits for any recreational
use.
Schiffer stated that, given that there is going to be
development out there, thinks that this looks like a
good project due to the amount of open space and ap-
pears to be aesthetically pleasing and recreational
facilities are provided for. Concerned with impact
on City. Feels that if it is phased properly, City
could handle it.
Applicant stated that at this point, they are talking
about a 10-year phasing of the project. Stated that
they might be talking about 50 or 60 the first year.
Ms. Baer stated that the Planning Office was concerned
about the impact on public facilities and their need
for expansion, air pollution, impact on highway, etc..
Stated that the County P & z tabled for these reasons
and the reason that they have land use and density
considerations in this area.
Chairman Gillis stated that another consideration would
be the use of these offices if they are ever developed.
Applicant stated that they are willing to zone that
with PUD.
Northstar
Ranch
Ms. Baer stated that there would be 1109 units. Stated
that Jim Smith has in a rezoning application since
part of the land is zoned tourist and the remainder
is zoned AF. Stated that smith has an application for
rezoning PUD 300 units. Stated that County P & z
would be hearing this on February 6th for the first
time. Stated there would be lodge units and condo-
minium units with some single family dwellings.
Ms. Baer stated that the area of the subdivision is
260 acres.
Chairman stated that he felt the impact on the commu-
nity would be totally unreasonable and would hope that
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FORM" C.F.HOECKEL8.B.6: l. CD.
continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & zoning
January 17, 1974
the county P & Z would take into consideration all
hazards.
Schiffer stated that he agreed with Gillis.
vagneur stated that she felt it was an unrealistic ap-
proach.
General concensus of the Commission was that the pro-
posed project was totally unreasonable.
Paragon
Remodel
Chairman Gillis stated that he did recall when the
Paragon came before the Commission for their remodel,
the Commission specifically asked the applicant if
there would be dancing and the applicant stated that
there would not be. Gillis stated that he hoped the
Planning Office would pursue some appropriate recourse.
Ms. Baer questioned what the Commission would like the
Planning Office to do on this matter.
Gillis requested that the Planning Office investigate
what could be done to make them comply with whatever
regulations the applicant was skirting by this.
Planning Office
Policy on
Recommendations
Schiffer stated that he understood in the past, the
policy has been that the Planning Office submits its
recommendations on specific projects at the hearing
of that project. Feels that is a poor policy and would
like the benefit of their professional skill when they
make their determinations. Feel it would be better
for the commission if they received the recommendations
and specific objections to projects as soon as they
are made, at least the time the developer gets them
and possibly before them.
Schiffer made a motion to change the policy in order
that the Commission receive that information as soon
as it is available from the Planning Office.
Bartel expressed his concern on pre-judging the ap-
plication before the presentation.
Schiffer stated that he would like to be as prepared
as possible on all the relative considerations. Feel
it would add to the knowledge of the Commission and al-
low the Commission to make more intelligent decisions.
Gillis stated that he was in agreement with Schiffer.
Johnson stated he, too, was in agreement.
Jenkins stated he also agreed.
Jenkins seconded the motion. All in favor, motion
carried.
Schiffer made a motion to adjourn the meeting, se-
conded by Johnson. All in favor, motion carried.
Meeting adjourned at 8:00
tary