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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
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FORMIG C.F.HOECKELB.B.ItL.Co.
co?tJnued Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
February 7, 1974
Chairman Gillis reconvened the meeting at 5:15 p.m. with Commission members:
Bryan Johnson, Jack Jenkins, Spence Schiffer, and Geri Vagneur. Also present
City/County Planner Herb Bartel and Assistant Planners Donna Baer and John Stan-
ford, and the City Attorney, Sandra Stuller.
RECREATION PLAN -
Parks & Recreation
Department
Ted Armstrong, head of the Parks & Recreation Depart-
ment, was present to present the plan.
Armstrong pointed out that he was asked by Council to
come up with a Master Plan or Comprehensive Develop-
ment Plan, for the City of Aspen. Stated that the
Council had recommended that he come to the Commission
for approval, disapproval or recommendations.
Armstrong stated that the importance of coming up with
a plan such as this is that they are currently involved
in the proposal of the development of development I,
which is the Golf Course property.
Armstrong submitted a copy of the proposed plan to the
members.
Armstrong further pointed out that the Golf Course pro-
perty was critical at this time, is because of a cur-
rent lease with Westward Apple. Whether or not they
are going to relinquish their lease this coming spring
and give up their option so that the City can renegoti-
ate a new lease, depending upon what development goes
on at the golf course property. Stated that the City
could lose up to $20,000. Stated that at this meet-
ing, hoped to come up with a stand from the Commis-
sion.
Armstrong stated that in the report, basically tried
to point out the inadequacies of what the City cur-
rently has in its present Parks Department, and the
current impact upon the continuing development on exis-
ting park facilities. Asked Commission to review in
the report the impact study. Stated that the City
currently is in need of more active parks.
Armstrong stated that if in the past, the development
had been made in the same manner as the presentation
which he made at this meeting, if, for example, five
acres had been required for 1,000 people, the City
would not be in the situation that it is now.
Armstrong requested comments from the Commission on the
report.
Schiffer questioned why basketball courts were not in-
cluded in the report.
Armstrong stated that this was just a plan, of which
the City can go into each of the nine different areas
and come back with a Planning report to show the Com-
mission what the impact would be in that area and what
the citizens of that particular area would need. Would
do study on what the age group of each area would be
and what the best utilization for each park would be.
Schiffer pointed out that in the report (Table #2) the
recommendation was one basketball court per 500 people.
Stated that based on the report's projections, that
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continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
February 7, 1974
would mean 36 basketball courts for the entire city.
Recommended that more basketball courts be constructed.
Armstrong stated that any of the standards could be
modified. Felt that you could not come up with a
set set of standards.
Schiffer stated that he was concerned with Garrish
Park. Felt that no one used that park. Questioned if
there were any facilities at that park.
Armstrong stated that it was designed to be left as a
passive park area, without any facilities whatsoever.
Pointed out that there are facilities at Herron Park,
which is right down the hill.
Schiffer stated that he felt the softball fields that
are currently being used are inadequate.
Armstrong stated that what they hope to do, is within
the development of Development I, is to provide those
type of facilities. Stated that the City has had
numerous complaints from the Aspen Manor about the
current facilities.
vagneur questioned how many acres were being requested
per 1,000 people.
Armstrong stated that they were requesting 5 acres per
1,000 people.
Vagneur asked Armstrong if, when they are planning the
total acreage which they think is necessary for the
population, is any of the natural facilities taken
into consideration, like the National Forest, etc.
Assistant City Engineer Ed Del Duca stated that five
acres per 1,000 is developed park land, and stated
that he believed the National standard with passive
parks and natural areas. Stated that this has been
taken into consideration in the report.
Vidal questioned if the National standard took this
into consideration. Questioned if the five acres ad-
justs for the fact that Aspen sits in the middle of a
National Forest.
Del Duca stated that it did.
Vidal questioned what the procedure was on an adoption
of this type of report regarding funding for specific
parks and facilities. Questioned if there were any
priorities and how you go about doing this on a park-
by-park or year-by-year basis.
Armstrong stated that first you must establish priori-
ties as far as which areas need to be developed first
and what the current community needs are.
Vidal questioned if this comes out of a City budget
type of thing.
Armstrong stated that it comes from the budget pro-
cedure on priorities, which would be recommended by
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Aspen Planning & Zoning
February 7, 1974
the Commission to City Council.
vidal questioned what the total impact of these pro-
jections would be in terms of dollars.
Armstrong stated that he had no idea what the cost of
these projections would be.
Gillis stated that one of his concerns was with the
Forest Service, when 83% of the County is Forest Ser-
vice property, has a hard time trying to imagine that
we do not have enough open space.
Gillis questioned Armstrong on how he would define rec-
reation in Aspen versus other communities when he is
trying to use a National Standard. Questioned if he
found Aspen the same type of community as perhaps a
suburb of Chicago would be.
Armstrong stated that he based it upon the need and
what the City has to develope it in in regards to other
communities, based upon what current programs the City
is currently offering and the wishes of the people who
are currently participating in them. Felt the City
should have some standard to adopt in order to comply
with the needs of the community.
Chairman Gillis questioned Armstrong on the type of
questions which were asked in the survey done by the
League of Women Voters.
Armstrong stated that basically, the questions were
what current recreation activities would the community
like to see that the City does not currently offer.
What type of facilities would they like to see and
what priorities.
Chairman Gillis stated that he could not understand
how the figures for open space were arrived at.
Del Duca explained that the figure of 18,000 people
was the ultimate population, which may never occur.
Stated that the recommendations were based on the
ultimate populations of the various areas.
Armstrong stated that the projection of 18,000 was low
since currently, the City facilitates the areas of
Snowmass, Woody Creek, etc...
Gillis suggested putting lights in at the softball
facilities rather than providing more facilities.
Armstrong stated that he has had the lights budgeted
for four years.
Del Duca stated that he felt there was a difference in
providing a standard regulation soft ball field which
people from town would go out and play on, and a neigh-
borhood park that children would use. Stated that al-
though it could be partially overlapping, felt there
was a distinct different area which should be provided.
Gillis questioned if the Trueman property was being
considered in this plan.
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February 7, 1974
Armstrong stated that the Trueman property was not
being considered.
Gillis stated that he felt it should be part of the
plan to consider the Trueman Property, because he would
like to see more facilities in town than out.
Del Duca stated that the purpose of the plan was just
to establish a standard for each area. Stated that
currently, a site plan was being developed for the
Trueman Property.
Del Duca explained that the present system of dedica-
tion is 4%. Felt this was very unfair to the developer
and the City, since all zoning districts, whether multi
family or single family, require the same amount of
dedication. Felt the population difference should make
a difference in the amount of land dedicated.
Schiffer questioned if he had a ratio for the dedi-
cation.
Del Duca stated that he
of population per use.
any lower than national
felt they should take standards
Felt that it should not be
standards.
Vidal stated that he felt the City should put their
active type of facilities and activities on a higher
priority than the passive.
Chairman Gillis stated that he found a lot of items
in the report confusing and misleading.
Vidal questioned if there was anyway .that priorities
could be established in a phasing way.
Armstrong stated that that would be possible as soon
as they had a basis to go by.
Bartel explained that the report does two things that
the Planning & Zoning Commission should have had long
ago: (1) Gives the Commission some national stand-
ards as a guide, and (2) It divides the area into plan-
ning units for the purpose of park and recreation faci-
lities. Stated that in order to adopt any plan, the
Commission must publish for public hearing and then
consider it for adoption or revision after the public
hearing. Felt that what Armstrong really wanted is
to get feedback from the Commission with respect to
those two items. Stated the most important area which
Armstrong is currently working on is area I.
Vidal stated that he did not have a problem with the
designation of various areas, but did not understand
how they were applying national standards.
Armstrong stated that the 5 acres was arrived at by
their own analysis.
Del Duca pointed out that the national standard was
ten acres per 1,000.
Del Duca stated that the timing of this plan was very
good since the Planning Office is now looking at some
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Aspen Planning & Zoning
February 7, 1974
specific areas which are also in the map.
Del Duca explained that any new development would not
be required to supplement what Aspen now lacks.
Schiffer questioned if the were recommending amending
the subdivision regulations so as to require a dedi-
cation based on density as opposed to land.
Del Duca explained that that was correct.
Vidal questioned if it would be appropriate to include
in something like this report, a situation where a
neighborhood would try to buy a piece of land and give
it to the City, and if there was some dialogue in the
report whereby the City would say, "If a group of
people did that, that the City would them be able to
put some funds in to improve the facility or put some
facilities on it."
Armstrong stated that he felt there was a possibility
of that, but explained that in the area which Vidal
was referring to, in the plan it is taken care of.
Vidal stated that he felt that may encourage some other
areas to do the same if the City had a policy whereby
if a neighborhood would participate and help purchase
land, it would be a commitment by the City to facili-
tate it.
Chairman Gillis stated that he found the report con-
fusing, although he agreed with the conclusions, but
how they arrived at the conclusions could not under-
stand.
Bartel stated that he felt that Armstrong had probably
used a low figure as relates to population projection.
Felt that in the summer, you have to go for peaks.
Bartel further explained that procedurally, the Com-
mission could pass this back to Armstrong with their
recommendation that he use it as a guide. Could not
adopt this as a plan because of the required publi-
cation and public hearing.
Concensus of the Commission was to send it on for ap-
proval, but pointed out that there are some areas
that could be cleaned up in the way of logistics.
Schiffer made a motion to approve the plan, seconded
by Johnson. All in favor, motion carried.
Armstrong stated that periodically he would be appear-
ing before the commission with specific plans for all
the areas based on these standards.
UTE VILLAGE
CONDOMINIUMS -
Preliminary Plat
& Ordinance #19
Conceptual Review
Attorney Jim Moran, Ed Baker, and Ms. Pat Maddalone
were present to represent the project.
Moran discussed developments which had taken place
since the last time that the applicant came before the
commission. Stated that the density problem which the
Commission had addressed themselves to from time to
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Aspen Planning & Zoning
February 7, 1974
time, feel this project, feel the developer has also
addressed himself to it.
Moran pointed out that the proposed density in this
project is 10.6 units per acre. Looking to either
side of it, the Gant is 25 per acre, the Clarendon is
15 per acre. Stated that yesterday at County P & Z
conceptual approval was given to the Stillwater pro-
ject at 2.6 units per acre, and further on out, to the
Northstar project, as week or two previously that was
given conceptual approval at the County level at 1.2
per acre. Stated that the transition flow is there.
Whether the curve is at the right level is something
the Commission might discuss.
Moran stated that the other problem which has been
bothering both bodies is the low cost housing problem,
and this project has in its plan an 18 unit apartment
building that would be covenanted for permanent resi-
dents and would be this project's answer to that com-
munity need.
Ms. Maddalone pointed out that they are very aware of
planning standards in the Benedict Office. Feel it
was quite natural that these standards were taken into
consideration even in the beginning planning stages.
Stated that many of the things the P & Z is discussing
now were considered initially and stated that this was
there best presentation.
Baker stated that rather than coming in with some high-
er number in hopes of negotiating it down to a lower
level the applicant had come in with a realistic plan.
Vidal stated that he did not feel he could make a
purely objective decision on this, consequently was
removing himself from the Commission for this presen-
tation.
Ms. Baer reminded the Commission that when subdivision
was tabled there were two major considerations: (l)the
water pressure in that area. That has not changed;and
(2) the drainage channel that is shown on the Urban
Runoff Management Plan.
Ms. Baer stated that the applicant has been in contact
with Wright-McLaughlin, who is designing that channel,
and Ken Ash, their representative, informed her that
it could be accommodated on that site with some plat
changes. Ms. Baer stated that the applicant is not
presenting a new plat, so therefore, feel that as re-
fers to subdivision, the Commission cannot approve a
plat they have not seen, therefore, should deny or ask
the applicant to withdraw without a time limit on that.
Ms. Maddalone stated that Mr. Taggert in Wright-Mc-
Laughlin's Denver office, was actually the one who de-
signed the Urban Runoff Plan. Stated he felt that ap-
propriate action should be taken by the City Council
to use funds which have already been budgeted for and
that Wright-McLaughlin should be directed to solve this
problem with the landowner since it was a community
problem and not a problem that was caused by this par-
ticular parcel of land.
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Aspen Planning & Zoning
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Ms. Maddalone stated that there are several alternate
plans which could be used to accommodate the community
in that way. Stated that some of the plans do not re-
quire revision of the site plan.
Ms. Baer stated that she would agree with the first
part of the statement, but stated that her information
from Taggert and Ken Ash was that there would have to
be a modification of the site plan.
Baker stated that he did understand that this could be
accomplished underground. Stated that it is not a
natural drainage channel, but rather, a revised drain-
age channel and feels this amounts to a taking of land.
Felt that if someone is planning to take the land there
is some procedure which should be followed.
Ms. Baer stated that whatever the case, it needs to be
dealt with before subdivision approval. Stated that
it was her understanding from Ms. Maddalone that the
landowner was willing to accommodate this channel.
Stated that the design of the channel would have to be
changed somewhat in order to put it on this site, and
Taggert and Ash informed Ms. Baer that the site plan
would have to be modified. Stated that if there is a
question of willingness to do that, then that has to
be settled.
Baker stated that he aid not feel that was really a
question. Stated that as long as both parties agree
that the modifications can be made, questioned if there
was some way the applicant could get an approval sub-
ject to that modification being made.
Ms. Baer stated that she did not feel the Commission
could approve a preliminary plat they have not seen.
Baker pointed out that they had been asked to table
once before voluntarily. Stated that they were not
told at the time that there was going to be a proposal
to downzone the property. Stated that the applicant
wondered if perhaps they were being asked to withdraw
so that something could be accomplished that would pre-
clude all of this.
Ms. Maddalone stated that their position would be that
they have seen the subdivision plat which they are
asking to be approved and that just as this subdivision
plat does not show detailed engineering drawings for
the waterlines that it also shows Wright-McLaughlin's
Urban Runoff plan, conceptual design for this same run-
off plan. Stated that she was certain the Commission
was aware that there is a great difference between ac-
tual engineering drawings and conceptual design.
Moran questioned Ms. Baer on the state of the discus-
sions with the Water Engineer as far as accomplishing
the necessary drainage.
Ms. Maddalone stated that they had three proposals or
four proposals. Stated that one of the proposals went
through the site and stated that it could be handled
through the site in several different manners: could
be an open drainage ditch. Have discussed the pos-
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sibility of going underground, and stated that this
was the type of thing Mr. Taggert and Mr. Ash felt
should come to the City Council and they should be
directed to take care of this particular part of the
Urban Runoff Plan first because they considered it to
be the highest priority. Felt the responsibility was
with the Council to appropriate the money to let
Wright-McLaughlin do the engineering in connection
with their office.
Gillis questioned Ms. Maddalone if the City was not
willing to appropriate the money now, does that mean
that the developing is going on faster than they can
keep up with.
Ms. Maddalone stated that she felt the City was miss-
ing an opportunity if they don't, because she under-
stood that this money has been budgeted and it is a
matter of whether they spend it on the Urban Runoff
Drainage Plan or whether they might use it for some
kind of sedimentation ponds that might be landscaped.
Felt that from a hazard point of view, according to
Mr. Taggert, this has top priority in their office.
Ms. Maddalone stated that she felt this was an oppor-
tunity for the City to be able to have an easement in
an area where they might not. Stated that if they
would not be able to develope there, there is not much
reason for them to volunteer an easement and then work
around it. Stated that they should work concurrently.
Chairman Gillis questioned if the developer would be
willing to hold the development until the City is ready
to put the plan into effect.
Ms. Maddalone stated that she did not wish to question
the credibility on holding things up.
Baker stated that it would depend a great deal on the
timing.
Assistant Engineer Ed Del Duca stated that the Engin-
eering Department had not seen any revised plat that
showed any allowance for a drainage channel. Stated
that the Department also did not accept designs di-
rected for Wright-McLaughlin without reviewing those
also. Stated that the cost consideration in under-
grounding can be three times that cost to the City.
Stated that they would like to see what's going to
happen before approval of the project.
Ms. Maddalone stated that the applicant would like to
know what the City is going to do before they get an
easement.
Del Duca stated that it was very clear on the Drainage
Plan. Stated that the intent was for an open channel.
Further stated that the plan was heard publicly and
adopted by the City Council.
Moran stated that he felt the problem is that if the
City feels that it needs an open drainage channel ac-
ross that property or some rights across the property
and they are concerned about acquiring them now, they
ought to direct the City Attorney to file a petition
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Aspen Planning & Zoning
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in condemnation. Stated that the other aspect is
"no" unless the City is prepared to get in and deal
and bargain on this thing to look for a common solu-
tion to what seems to be competing desires here.
Stated that as far as this subdivision us concerned
it requires for its drainage no drainage channel other
than is as shown on the plats. Stated that if the
City wants some drainage provision to take care of
runoff from Aspen Mountain, feel that that does not
affect this subdivision application at the present
stage.
Ms. Baer stated that she would agree that it does not
directly involve the application. Stated that it does
involve the plat. Stated that if the Commission could
not see it on a plat to evaluate it on that basis,
could not recommend adoption of a specific plat to
the Commission. Further felt that something could
be worked out. Stated that first it was necessary to
approach the City Council since there would be public
expenditure there.
Moran stated that the applicant's subdivision plat, the
way it is applying to subdivide the land, does not have
anything to do with the City's desire to run a drainage
channel through that land. Are saying that when the
City comes up with its plan and they can lay it over
the plat and make a dedication or an arrangement, then
that would be fine.
Ms. Maddalone stated that there would certainly be mod-
ifications to the plat. Reminded the Commission that
this was only the preliminary stage.
Johnson stated he would like to hear Ed
problem of water pressure.
address the
Del Duca stated that they are finalizing the study on
the entire City. Stated that they have not got a final
answer. Stated that they are presently looking at
alternatives. Do not think there is adequate pressure
in present system.
Schiffer questioned if the preliminary plat were ap-
proved at this stage, not knowing about this drain-
age channel, that it could jeopardize the City's drain-
age plan.
Ms. Baer stated that her point was that the Commission
could not approve a plat until they have seen it.
Stated that the drainage plan must be worked out.
Vidal stated that he had withdrawn from the Ordinance
#19 aspect of the presentation, but felt he could com-
ment on the subdivision review.
Vidal questioned Ms. Baer, if approval were appropriate
or approval with conditions, to make it conditional
upon the applicant granting the necessary right-of-
way to accommodate the drainage plan and work concur-
rently to develope engineering solutions to that.
Ms. Baer stated that she did not feel the applicant
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would want to do that. Stated that the Planning Of-
fice would like to see it on a map. Felt the appli-
cant should work with Wright-McLaughlin.
Del Duca pointed out that Wright-McLaughlin had been
hired to do the conceptual stage, however, they have
not been hired in any way to do detailed design.
Ms. Maddalone stated that she felt it was unfair of
the City to put the applicant in an adversary position.
Moran stated that if the applicant were planning a sub-
division building tract, would layout the streets be-
cause those streets are necessitated by our dividing
that land into building tracts. Stated that what is
present in this situation is an application for a sub-
division plan and the City is saying that they might
want to use some of that land for something that they
have in the hopper, and that is a drainage canal.
The applicant is saying that they will try to work with
the City on this. Feel that the drainage plan is not
part of this applicant's subdivision application.
Have been notified of the City's desires in that re-
gard.
Ms. Baer stated that she felt it should be a common
effort but required to have the endorsement of the City
Council.
Vidal asked Del Duca if the City could give, as it re-
lates to this piece of property, can they determine
where this drainage plan enters the property and where
they would want to have it exit and the quantity in-
volved in going through the property.
Del Duca stated that the City could give the appli-
cant that information.
Vidal stated that possibly that was a criteria that the
City could give the developer.
Del Duca stated that that was all in the report which
the developers have seen.
Vidal questioned if it would be satisfactory if the
Commission looked at all the other elements of the sub-
division, because felt that possibly the drainage pro-
blem is the easiest problem the Commission would be
addressing itself to, since there is a common goal.
Felt that it would be possible to approve the prelimi-
nary plat conditional on that design being created at
the next stage.
Schiffer questioned if it was possible that the design
would be so radical that the preliminary plat which
they have submitted would be meaningless.
Ms. Maddalone stated that that would be something which
the developer would have to work out with Wright-Mc-
Laughlin, but do not think so.
Stated that Wright-McLaughlin's study is in the con-
ceptual stage, and this is the same stage which the
developer is at under subdivision. Stated that the
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the next stage is for Benedict to do more details on
their plan and more details from Wright-McLaughlin.
Schiffer stated that one of his concerns is with the
possible traffic congestion in that area and the pro-
blem with access.
Ms. Baer stated that the applicant has agreed to dedi-
cate ten feet.
Chairman Gillis questioned Del Duca if the Engineering
Department had an opinion on the traffic problem in
that area.
Del Duca stated that as Bartel had previously
the traffic on Ute Avenue is already serious.
the City has no current plans to improve that
tion.
presented
Stated
condi-
Baker stated that he understood that all of the devel-
opers in that area have dedicated additional right-
of-way for street widening. Stated that the street
could be improved to handle the traffic.
Ms. Baer
street.
point.
pointed out that ute Avenue is not a through
Further, are no cross streets after a certain
Vidal also withdrew from the discussion on subdivision.
Del Duca pointed out that the drainage channel proposed
by Wright-McLaughlin would go through several buildings
on the preliminary plat. Felt the plat could not be
approved due to the scope of the drainage plan.
Pointed out that the channel is 100' at some points.
Ms. Baer stated that, given the location of the pro-
ject, the position of the Planning Office has always
been that tourist use is the incorrect use in mixed-
residential, particularly at the far eastern end of
ute Avenue. Stated that they were recommending denial
on the tourist use.
Ms. Baer stated that they are further recommending
that the Commission adopt the zoning plan that was pre-
sented, and thus set that density on that piece of pro-
perty.
Moran stated that he disagreed.
Vagneur stated that she found a great deal of difficul-
ty in equating square footage of land uses for the pro-
jects on Ute Avenue with the proposed zoning. Stated
that the Gant uses about 1500 square feet of land per
unit. The Clarendon is about 3,000 square feet. The
Ute project would be one unit for 4,327 square feet of
land, and the proposed downzoning would be five times
as great. Felt that it was not fair to expect a de-
veloper to cut back that much.
Jenkins stated that in connection with the Gant and
the Concept 600 building, the principal, using them as
a standard, is not balanced because that is part of
what caused Ordinance #19 to be placed in effect in
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the first place.
Vagneur ~ated that she could not see within a few hun-
dred yards requiring someone to have five times as
much property.
Chairman Gillis pointed out that the affect of traffic
at the Gant is not as great as what there would be on
Ute Avenue.
Vagneur stated that since the present zoning would al-
low the applicant to build over 200 units, and the
fact that they were only proposing 77 units, shows that
the applicant is bending an awfully long way.
Baker stated that the applicant felt a particular har-
assment from the Planning Office, in that they feel
they were put upon and asked to withdraw. Were not
told of the downzoning proposal in advance. Stated
that they were told at the last meeting in January
that they would be given some recommendations from
the Planning Office in writing. Have asked for those
recommendations several times and have not received
them. Have not always been informed of what is hap-
pening with the meetings. Stated that this has been
going on since early last fall or late last summer.
Moran stated that the talk always gets back down to
density. Stated that in rezoning downward, given an
area which has been allowed to develope in a certain
fashion at a certain density, you cannot come down all
the way to zero. Felt that in this situation, the ap-
plicant is about at the point where you begin to break
over into an area where the adjustment is too gross
to be sustained. Stated that in this situation, the
Commission has an applicant who is coming in with what
is basically a third of existing zoning, and feel that
the applicant here has proposed a solution that is
about as far as you could come by the most strenuous
exercise of the police power. Feel that deserves some
consideration. Further stated that R-6 zoning would
come close to allowing the numbers which the applicant
is currently proposing.
Schiffer questioned how many units the applicant could
build under the proposed zoning.
Moran stated that it would be about 23 units.
Jenkins stated since that can include duplexes, it
would be closer to 45 units.
Michael Kinsley, representing the Environmental Task
Force, stated that the talk is getting down to the
profitability of the land. Felt that if that is the
policy of the Commission, then maybe it would be ap-
propriate to have some figures on this project as to
what is the minimum feasible development.
Schiffer stated that he did not feel the Commission, in
the case of the Clarendon, made a decision based on
whether or not the applicant could make a profit.
Baker stated that the applicant interpreted Ordinance
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Continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
February 7, 1974
#19 as an attempt to reduce density. Stated that that
is what there proposal has done. Stated that during
the earlier discussions, the only problem that really
came up was the tourist versus the permanent use.
Stated that there is no desire on the part of the ap-
plicant to try and block any plan to create a better
drainage plan for the City, but insofar as Ordinance
#19 is concerned, the applicant felt that they are
fulfilling that intent.
Schiffer stated that he appreciated the applicant's at-
tempt to comply with Ordinance #19 in terms of getting
a mix. Did not feel that it was enough of a mix to
say that it is predominantly a residential type of
development. Feel that it is too much density for
that particular area.
Ms. Maddalone pointed out that one of the things that
is in the project is the 18-unit apartments which were
subsidized by the other units. Stated that the Com-
mission could remove the 18 units. Stated that they
were told by the Planning Office in April that the
recommendation for that area was 8-10 units per acre
with a PUD mandatory.
Ms. Baer stated that the Planning Office felt that
there is a basis for their recommendations on rezoning.
Baker questioned what the definition of a duplex is
by the Planning Office.
Johnson stated that he felt the applicants have defi-
nitely addressed the question in good faith. Also
feel that the density and use are too much.
Johnson made a motion to deny the project under Or-
dinance #19, seconded by Schiffer.
Ms. Maddalone pointed out that the developer
precluded this being permanent residential.
asking for a definition of what is permanent
dential and the enforcement of this.
has not
Are just
resi-
Jenkins stated that the use problem did not bother him.
Stated that the density was his concern, and felt that
possibly, that area should be developed like Red Moun-
tain.
MAIN MOTION
Roll call vote - Gillis, aye; Vidal, abstain; Johnson,
aye; Jenkins, aye, Schiffer, aye; Vagneur, no. Motion
carried.
Ms. Maddalone requested written reasons for the denial.
Johnson made a motion to deny the preliminary subdivi-
sion plat, seconded by Schiffer. All in favor, with
the exception of Vagneur who was opposed. Motion car-
ried.
Ms. Maddalone stated that she felt there were some very
contradictory considerations. Felt the tourists would
put far less impact on the public facilities. Peel
that the applicant has been seriously misled.
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Continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
February 7, 1974
PROGRESS
REPORT
Bartel stated that he and Stanford had been working on
the total mixed residential problem. Stated he would
like to present what they feel are some very important
additions. Stated that these are really separate from
the land use recommendations.
Stated that these are specific things which they feel
should happen to upgrade the area.
Stanford submitted map showing existing conditions in
the north section of the mixed residential area.
Showed quite a mix of uses.
Stanford stated that they had also done an analysis of
the density distribution and the resident to tourist
mix. Shows a diversity in this area and mixture.
Stated that by evaluating these items, have come up
with their suggestions for a plan for the area. Be-
cause of this diversity and the existing development,
which is almost total in the area, very little that
they can do in the way of recommendations on the land
use plan.
Stanford stated that their program for this area would
be of primarily public actions which would include the
trail system throughout the area which ties with the
area-wide trail plan. Would include bicycle path a-
long Cooper. Have also shown on the entrance to Aspen
a tree planting program. Stated that the first phase
of this would occur in this area - from the highway
at the City limits on into town and leading perhaps to
the municipal parking lot.
Stanford stated that included in this would be an in-
tersection design at Original and Cooper. Stated that
this would be done by the Highway Department. Stated
that the intent of redesigning this intersection would
be to discourage traffic, particularly tourist traffic,
from going straight into the downtown area. Would pre-
fer to have them directed to the municipal parking lot.
Stanford stated that they also have proposed, planned
by the Bureau of Outdoor Recreation, a footbridge going
across the Roaring Fork at the end of Hopkins Street.
Have also recommended at the end of Hyman and Hopkins
Streets a small vest-pocket park, which would also be
connected along the Roaring Fork River with a trail
system. Stated that they would like to come out with
some type of possible street lighting that would, in
addition to being street lighting for safety purposes,
would perhaps be utilized in some way esthetically.
Schiffer asked how resident units were distinguished
from tourist units.
Stanford stated that this was based on an estimate that
Vagneur made, depending on if they were living there
on a year around basis.
Bartel pointed out a
in the flood plain.
the footbridge is in
section of river frontage which is
Stated that the application for
process and there will not be an
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Continued Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
Pebruary 7, 1974
answer on that probably until April or May.
Bartel stated that they did not feel the answer was in
totally building more streets, in fact concerned about
that because of what it would do to the intersection
at Glory Hole Park.
Bartel stated that they hoped, with some conceptual
approval of a plan for the Rio Grande, that they would
connect substantially all of this area on the north
side of Main Street. Stated that the next time they
meet on this with the Commission, would like to meet
about conceptual plan on the Rio Grande.
Vidal questioned if, relative -- to that, do they have
a format established to where if they had other bodies
that they could help, or does it have to be done by
Stanford.
Bartel stated that they have placed the inventory bur-
den on the Subcommittee.
Ms. Maddalone stated that since she lived in that area
was interested to know what kind of concerns that the
Planning Office has for the people who live over there.
Questioned if they concern themselves with the fact
that practically all of the single family residents in
that area are now owned by people who have lived there
for more than 40 years and almost all of these people
are over 60 years old.
Vagneur stated that she brings this up frequently since
her deep concern is that Aspen is a town, not just a
resort area.
Johnson made
by Schiffer.
p.m.
a motion to adjourn the meeting, seconded
All in favor, meeting adjourned at 7:15