HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19731218
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORJol ~O C. F. HOECKEL B. e. a L. CD.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
Meeting was called to order by Chairman Jim Adams at 5:10 p.m. with Chuck Vidal,
Bruce Gillis Jack Jenkins, and Spence Schiffer. Also present Assistant City/
County Planners Donna Baer and John Stanford.
Minutes
12/4/73 &
12/11/73
Vidal stated that the minutes of December 4, 1973, did not
reflect the fact that he was in attendance, and wished to
make that correction.
Jenkins made a motion to approve the minutes of December 4,
1973, as corrected and the minutes of December 11, 1973 as
submitted. Motion seconded by Schiffer. All in favor,
motion carried.
Mixed-Residential
Evaluation
Stanford stated that progress is being made on the report
for the mixed-residential area, and that the subcommittee
should have recommendations ready by the middle or end of
January.
Stanford reminded those members on the committee that there
would be a meeting on Wednesday, December 19th.
PUBLIC
HEARING -
Tree Ordinance
Chairman Adams opened the public hearing on the tree ordi-
nance.
"AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 24-9 OF CHAPTER 24 OF THE
MUNICIPAL CODE OF ASPEN BY THE ADDITION OF SUBSECTION (i)
REQUIRING A PERMIT FOR REMOVAL OF ANY TREE WITH A TRUNK
DIAMETER OF FOUR INCHES OR MORE; PROVIDING FOR SUBMISSION
OF SITE PLAN ON SUBMISSION OF APPLICATION FOR PERMIT' DE-
SCRIBING THE CRITERIA FOR REVIEW OF THE PERMIT; PROVIDING
FOR THE RELOCATION OR REPLACEMENT OF TREES; PROHIBITING
CONSTRUCTION NEAR TREES; AND AUTHORIZING THE CREATION OF
AN OFFICIAL STREET LIST."
Stanford stated that this ordinance would help minimize
flood damage and minimize erosion.
Vidal questioned how this ordinance materialized and how
it could practically be administered. Stated that he felt
this would be a nuisance in the administrative aspect.
Stanford stated that this will be handled through the
Building Department, and that the Parks and Recreation
Department would handle the inventory list.
Schiffer stated that he agreed with Vidal. Stated that he
felt the spirit behind the ordinance was probably good, but
stated he did not know if you could interfere with indi-
vidual rights as far as their property is concerned. Sta-
ted it was a poorly written piece of legislation and would
be impossible to enforce. Stated that he felt the intent
was good, but felt there must be an alternative way to
protect the trees.
Gillis stated that he agreed with Vidal and Schiffer, but
would still like to see the Parks and Recreation Depart-
ment do the inventory list.
Chairman Adams stated that he agreed. Just felt that
people should be made to realize that trees are a valu-
able commodity.
Ed DelDuca, Assistant City Engineer, stated that he dis-
agreed with the sizing stated in the ordinance. Stated
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
~ORM IG C. F. HOECKEL B. B. II L. co.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
that he felt this should be a matter of judgment on the
Staff's part.
Schiffer stated that he would like to get together with
other members of the Commission to develope some other
ideas along this line.
Jenkins made a motion that Schiffer work with the Plan-
ning Office to develope something more acceptable to the
Commission, seconded by Gillis. All in favor, motion
carried.
It was the general concensus of the Commission that the
Planning Office request the Parks and Recreation Depart-
ment to do the inventory list.
Roaring Fork
Flood Plain
Study
Chairman Adams opened the public hearing.
ASPEN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION RESOLUTION ADOPTING
FLOOD PLAIN INFORMATION ROARING FORK RIVER AND CASTLE AND
HUNTER CREEKS
DATED June, 1973
"WHEREAS, the U.S. Corps of Engineers, Sacramento
District, has completed for the City of Aspen and Pitkin
County a Flood Plain Information Report Roaring Fork
River and Castle and Hunter Creeks, Aspen,.Colorado,
dated June 1973, and
WHEREAS, above said flood plain report was presented
to the City Council, County Commissioners and the public
at a regular meeting of the Aspen City Council on August
13 1973, and
WHEREAS, the Colorado Water Conservation Board in
regular meeting assembled in Denver, Colorado. the 31st
day of October, 1973, designated and approved as flood
hazard areas those areas described as being inundated by
an intermediate regional flood as set forth in the Flood
Plain Information Report for Roaring Fork River and
Castle and Hunter Creeks, Aspen, Colorado dated June 1973,
and
WHEREAS, the Aspen planning Commission held a public
hearing on December 18, 1973, to consider the adoption of
the Flood Plain Information Roaring Fork River and Castle
and Hunter Creeks, dated June, 1973,
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Aspen Plan-
ning Commission hereby adopts Flood Plain Information
Roaring Fork River and Castle and Hunter Creeks dated
June 1973, to use as the standard for determining com-
pliance with the City Code, Chapter 20, Subdivisions and
Chapter 24, Zoning."
Vidal questioned the application of this study to areas
within the 100-year flood plain area versus the 50-year
and 25-year areas.
Ms. Baer stated that this would be used as a review as
far as stream margin is concerned.
Chairman Adams stated that this was an attempt to make
the Flood Plain Study one of the legal tools of the Com-
mission and the Building Department.
Vidal stated that he felt it was similar to the arbitrary
height limit.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
fORM" C.F.IIOECKELB.B.ll<L.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
Gillis made a motion to adopt the Resolution on the Roar-
ing Fork Flood Plain Study, seconded by Schiffer. All in
favor, motion carried.
Chairman Adams closed the public hearing.
Traffic Signal
Study
Stanford pointed out that street lights had been recom-
mended for the corners of Aspen, Mill, Galena and Spring
Streets at Main Street.
Stanford further pointed out that the Planning Office had
found a discrepancy in the type of street lights which had
been recommended. Stated that the Planning Office had re-
searched the subject and found a type of street light that
was more appropriate.
Stanford stated that these recommendations are necessary
to handle the present volume of traffic and are not de-
signed for future traffic volume.
Barbara Knight, Secretary of the Planning Office. stated
that the State was quite willing to go along with the Plan-
ning Office's proposal on the street lights, as long as
they met the standards.
Chairman Adams stated that these lights were to take the
place of the one-way streets that were recommended in the
Voorhees study.
Gillis questioned if the City could make an agreement to
remove the lights when they initiate a transportation sys-
tem.
Stanford stated that he felt they could.
Chairman Adams pointed out that the City had requested the
State to make this survey.
Schiffer stated that he did not see the necessity for the
light at the corner of Main and Spring. Stated that he
felt the volume of traffic did not warrant a street light.
Rob Roy was present and questioned if the street lights
must be on all the time.
Ed DelDuca stated that he thought they could operate the
lights so that after a certain time late at night they
could be red on stop streets and amber on Main Street.
Vidal questioned if they had considered moving the light
that is presently at the park to the west. Stated that
he felt they should eliminate the recommendation for the
light on Spring Street.
Jenkins stated that he felt the light on Spring Street was
appropriate due to all the development at the end of the
street.
Chairman Adams stated that he also agreed with the light
on Spring. Stated that the light by the park should be
moved east for the convenience of the school buses.
Jenkins stated that the lights will help alleviate traf-
fic accidents.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM" C.F.HOECKELB.B.&L.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
Jenkins stated that he thought the light at Spring Street
was necessary, since the only other alternative would be
to route traffic up Mill Street.
Old Middle
School
Ms. Baer reminded the Commission that under Ordinance #19
the Planning Office could now review projects which they
felt were not major impacts on the community, if they in-
form the Commission.
Ms. Baer stated that the Old Middle School was proposing to
enlarge the office space and the mechanical room and to
tear down the shed. Further stated that the applicant has
consulted with the Building Inspector and he has no pro-
blems with setbacks. Planning Office feels there is no
significant impact and therefore would like to exempt this
from Commission review.
Schiffer made a motion to exempt this proposal from review,
seconded by Gillis. All in favor, motion carried.
ORDINANCE #19
Stevens-Ginn
Buildings
CONCEPTUAL PRESENTATIONS
Ms. Baer stated that the location of this project is
the south half of City Block 106, the remaining half
being occupied by the City Market Complex.
on
block
Jim Copland and Larry Yaw were present, architects repre-
senting the proposed project.
Yaw stated that the proposed use for this project would be
a combined commercial, office and living accommodations.
Stated that this is a unique situation since for once,
three separate owners are getting together. Stated that
their desire is to plan for two buildings to be implemented
in the spring and the third, a year from this time. Stated
that the third owner is only committed to the planning ef-
fort, but not to the architectural consideration.
Yaw stated that the owners wanted to handle the project
this so that they could do joint site planning, plan for
joint open space, parking, architectural control and to
effect a relationship between the buildings that would be
impossible if they were to do individual projects. Also
from the standpoint of the Commission, offers a potential
to co-ordinate an entire sector of the town.
At this time, the architects submitted an overlay showing
some of the community relationships to this project. Showed
that it is on a peripheral corner of the core area right
next to mixed-residential and accommodation-recreation.
Yaw stated that the urban plan for Aspen designates three
things that this project would fulfill: (1) potential cre-
ation of a small neighborhood service center, that is in
conjunction with City Market and some of the ground level
uses; (2) provision of living units for residents - studio
or I-bedroom units; (3) office space.
Further stated that they would be treating them as indi-
vidual projects, with planning, the architectural relation-
ships, open space planned together. Stated that all buil-
dings would be three levels.
Yaw stated that one of the important links generated by
the location with respect to the neighborhood is a mid-
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM" LF.HOECKELB.B.& L. CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
block crossing from the residential area. Also allows them
to effect approximately 15% more open space between the
buildings.
Further stated that on those two buildings, proposed a
parking structure that would be underneath. Parking would
be anticipated for only the people who live and work in
the buildings. Feel parking is an asset for the City at
this point because it is on a peripheral sector of the
town, therefore there is no penetration into the City and
it would be sublevel and security effected so that you're
not encouraging the skiier, etc. to park there. Will be
providing 35 parking spaces. Calculate 30-35 employees
for the two buildings.
Yaw stated that approximately 40% of the space could be
leased at this time.
Vidal questioned if there would be any irreversable de-
cisions made that would affect Baker's property.
Yaw stated that this was not a planning document.
Schiffer questioned how many houses were presently on that
property.
Yaw stated that there were presently two houses. Stated
that one was owned by Robin Molny and will be moved. Not
certain as to the status of the other house. Stated that
they would be happy to get the opinion of the Historic
Preservation Committee on the status of the houses.
Went over the basis of this concept with the Planning Of-
fice. Basis is three-fold: (1) shared open-space; (2) the
mid-block cirmlation7 and (3) massing and treatment of
buildings on both sides.
Ms. Baer stated that the planning Office like to see the
third building as part of the project. Were recommending
approval of the project with the following modifications:
(1) Historic Preservation Review
(2) What happens with the east and west facades -
HPC should look at those.
(3) Recommend model at the next stage.
(4) Want apartments to guarantee or meet employee
housing need. Agreement that they would not be
condominiumized in the future.
(5) Covenant the leases for 1 year.
(6) No on-sight parking of any kind.
Ms. Baer stated that if this is to be a pedestrian-oriented
town, the prohibition of parking would be essential.
Yaw stated that he would agree to all the conditions, with
the exception of no on-sight parking. Stated that there
were some conditions he would like to point out to the
Commission:
(1) Location on absolute periphera of the central
area causes no vehicular penetration of the area.
(2) Will be 30-35 people who live and work here who
will require parking somewhere. People who live
here, if they eliminated the parking, would eith-
er park in the City Market parking lot or in the
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 10 C.F.HOECKEL8.B.&L.CQ.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
nearby residential area.
Schiffer stated that he agreed with Yaw, since people will
take their cars anyway.
Vidal stated he felt the point was very valid also.
Yaw stated that since the parking would be underneath, woulc
not be encouraging other people to park there. Also with-
in walking distance of the trade area.
Ms. Baer stated that the Planning Office was aware of the
burden being put on City Market, but stated that the park-
ing could be policed. Ms. Baer stated that the Planning
Office was also concerned with auto emission problems,
which are 88% over state standards in the core area.
Gillis stated that his idea of a neighborhood shopping area
included driving to that area.
Vidal stated that due to the fact that City Market was
there and it was an automobile-oriented corner, felt that
parking was appropriate in that location, but felt the
parking should not be restricted to employee parking.
Jenkins stated that as long as the Commission continued to
allow parking in the core area, we perpetuate the situation
that already exists.
Yaw stated that when the transportation system is com-
pleted, the underground parking area could be converted.
Vidal questioned the Commission on whether or not they
identified this as a neighborhood shopping center or part
of the core area.
Chairman Adams suggest that the applicant go back and do
some thinking as far as the parking problem is concerned
and perhaps they could come up with another solution.
Gillis request that the applicant do a massing diagram or
model for the Commission.
Schiffer made a motion to give approval to the conceptual
presentation subject to each of the conditions recommended
by the Planning Office, except for the parking question
which should be determined at a later date. Motion seconded
by Vidal. All in favor, motion carried.
Brinkman
Remodel
Ms. Baer pointed out that this remodel was of the old
Aspen Lumber & Supply Building, located on Mill Street.
Further pointed out that this is an interior remodel only
with a use change.
Ms. Deanna Brinkman, Applicant, was present and her Ar-
chitect David Hauter. Ms. Brinkman stated that the owner
of the building is Mrs. White, and had given them an eight
year lease on the premises which lease contains two addi-
tional one year options.
Ms. Brinkman further stated that the proposed use of the
building would include an Oriental Japanese restaurant
and several retail commercial spaces. Applicant further
stated that under the lease, has approximately 12,000 sq.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
1 00 Leaves
fORM ~o C. F. HOECK EL B. B. a L. co.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
ft. now in a vacant lot directly to the west of the exist-
ing building which the applicant is willing to devote to
parking spaces for the shops and related uses. This park-
ing would be leveled and graveled and paved, if the Com-
mission did not feel that the additional paving might con-
tribute to their already existing runoff problems.
Hauter submitted conceptual drawings of the applicant's
proposal.
Chairman Adams questioned what kind of facilities they
would have for freight delivery.
Hauter explained that the alley could be used as a ser-
vice road. Further pointed out the location of access to
the parking area.
Hauter explained that they were proposing to landscape the
land that would be used in conjunction with the building.
Ms. Brinkman stated that her agreement with Mrs. White
included cleaning up the lot and do something to improve
the esthetics of the area.
Jenkins stated that he objected to the parking and stated
that he felt that it encouraged more vehicular traffic in
the core area.
Ms. Baer stated that the Planning Office was recommending
approval of this project with the following conditions:
(1) would prefer not to have the parking used for the
same reasons as for the Stevens-Ginn Building.
(2) Further recommend that any restaurant be fitted
with the gas-fired after burners recommended in
the air pollution study.
Vidal stated that as far as the parking was concerned, the
alternatives in this case are significantly different as
far as trade-offs are concerned.
Ms. Baer stated that they would not require Ms. Brinkman
to purchase parking when she is able to provide it on the
property.
Gillis made a motion to accept this project in the concep-
tual stage, with the exception that no parking be provided
and the conditions of the Planning Office be met. Motion
seconded by Schiffer. All in favor, motion carried.
Ute Village
Chairman Adams pointed out that the Commission must make
a decision on this project tonight. Stated that the ap-
plicant had withdrawn their subdivision request.
Ms. Baer stated that she had received a letter requesting
that they withdraw until January 15th.
Vidal stated that he felt the applicant had misunderstood
what they were withdrawing from.
Since there was no one present representing the project,
it was the concensus of the Commission that the applicant
was temporarily withdrawing their request for conceptual
approval.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
fORMSG C.F.HOECKELB.B.Il:L.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
Clarendon
Condominiums
Ms. Baer pointed out that the Commission must act on the
project by the 10th of January. Stated that the Commis-
sion could either act tonight or hold a special meeting
on the 8th of January.
Vidal stated that they had not really made the decision
to not extend. Understood that they had 30 days to make
that decision. Questioned the Commission on what activites
the Commission would go through to help the project get
further down the road as to making a decision.
Chairman Adams stated that he did not feel the Commission
had enough information at this time to approve the concep-
tual presentation. Felt the only other alternative would
be to disapprove at this time.
Vidal stated that he assumed if the Commission disapproved
the project, they would supply the reasons for disapproval
and what other data would have been required.
Schiffer stated he would prefer to approve the project
subject to the condition that it is in compliance with the
recommendations as far as the economic impact study is
concerned.
Jenkins stated that he would rather not vote on it until
all the information is in. Stated that the subcommittee
would have some very concrete information before the 10th.
Concensus of the Commission was to hold a special meeting
on the 8th of January to consider this project.
Tree House
Charlie Weaver was present representing the project.
Ms. Baer stated that this project has been seen by the
subcommittee. Stated that the project was modular, pedes-
tal houses to be constructed on Ute Avenue (Lot 2 Hoag
Subdivision). Stated that this was a request for 6 dwel-
ling units on less on 18,482 square feet. Each unit has
approximately 800 square feet.
Ms. Baer further pointed out that the subcommittee had
recommended this project with the rental restrictions.
Stated that the project would also have to go through
subdivision.
Weaver submitted a model of the project. Stated that
these particular houses lend themselves to a slope. Had
located six open areas in the trees, so would be minimal
tree removal. Does not want to restrict himself to long
term rental, but had agreed to covenant it to the rental
restrictions of the Commission. Further stated he would
like the Commission to inspect the site area.
Weaver pointed out that the terrain lends itself to of-
fering privacy for the individual houses. By raising or
lowering the pedestals, can further maneuver the privacy
of each house.
Weaver stated that there were two similar houses which he
would like the Commission to see in order to visualize
how this project would come together.
Chairman Adams suggest the Commission table the project
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 10 C.F.HOECKELB.B.a:L.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
until the meeting on the 8th of January.
trip to inspect the site be at 4:45 p.m.
be scheduled for 5:30 p.m.
Suggest a field
and the meeting
Villa of Aspen
Phase II
Attorney Art Daily was present and request aver batim
transcript of this presentation:
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORJol 51 C. F. ~OECKEL B. 8. !> L. CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
Just to bring this up to date, this is the , and
this is about the fourth time we've been here. I think
we started in July. A number of recommendations were made
by the Planning Office at that time, and by the Engineer-
ing Department, and we came back in on November 20th fol-
lowing a meeting with the Ordinance #19 committee. We
came before the Planning & Zoning commission on the 20th
and at that time the Planning & Zoning Commission expressed
additional concerns and the Planning Office had a few ad-
ditional ones. Rich might explain what changes have been
made.
ART DAILY
RICH WILDE
The basic changes have been control of the radius where
fire access, the change in parking lot location
to allow these two trees to remain where they are. Just
two things that were meant to be on and weren't shown on
the other plat were the pedestrian access above
notation the turn-around area will
be posted and just one second page pedestrian
easement will be provided for.
SPENCE SHCIFFER
How about the problem with the access road. We were dis-
cussing this problem with Power Plant Road. There was a
question whether or not....
RICH WILDE
Power Plant Road, of course, is not on the property or not
part of the project, there is an increased radius here so
access is easier in this direction.
But you have no alternatives to the usage of Power Plant
Road to gain access?
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
BRUCE GILLIS
Do you mean by that what the maximum buildup for that whole
area was, including this guy's property, what the traffic
problem would be on that small access? Isn't that part
of the recommendation?
RICH WILDE
It was part of the recommendation on a 24 foot wide, 2-lane
road, you can handle upwards of 2,000 cars an hour.
DONNA BAER
Well, he's talking about what could happen.....
RICH WILDE
Traffic generation, right. So as far as the capacity of
this size road to handle traffic generation in that area
I feel it would be more than adequate.
DONNA BAER
Well, Rich, that's a street in
road, the figures you quoted.
in front.
town. That isn't a private
And that's like this street
RICH WILDE
The figures I'm quoting are for a 24 foot wide, 2-lane road.
JACK JENKINS
Dead end road.
DONNA BAER
Dead end road?
RICH WILDE
It takes a section of the street and how many cars can pass
through it in an hour.
BRUCE GILLIS
A dead end, it's got to be a different figure ... parking?
JACK JENKINS
The highway out here going to the airport, that's a two-
lane road, and that doesn't have the same capacity as that
road.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM!O C.F.HOECKELB.8.!>L.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
ART DAILY
It's my understanding that the traffic engineer for the
City has expressed the opinion of his department that the
24 foot wide roadway is more than adequate for the ingress
and egress of the residents of the proposed development.
BRUCE GILLIS
Plus any further development?
CHUCK VIDAL
We are concerned about the potential crossing this neck, of
the total development potential of the area, as to whether
that road is adequate to handle not only this, but this
potential of the other piece of property.
ART DAILY
If that was one of the City's concerns, was the traffic
engineer, has he expressed an opinion on that?
DONNA BAER
Ed, have you expressed an opinion on that?
The 24 foot wide road is adequate for the future develop-
ment of both properties, however, if someone parks there
then there is one lane, would be the only objection. It's
not adequate if someone parks along one lane, if no op-
portunity to park off the road except in the parking spaces
provided.
ED DELDUCA
BRUCE GILLIS
Under current zoning, what is the total potential build-
up of this property down here? How many units? Still it
has to be a consideration.
DONNA BAER
That's tourist now.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Well, they're about to pass on all un subdivided property,
one house for ten acres.
DONNA BAER
That's the interim zoning. That will be zoning, it will
just be across the board zoning. But that wouldn't nec-
essarily be included, that little parcel. The river might
be the boundary.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
That's R-15 now, and.... that property should be because
you were planning on buying it at one point.
It's less than an acre, Jim, and at the time we contemp-
lated buying it, of course, we contemplated also annexing
into the City and obtaining the same zoning we had here,
and that rapidly, it became obvious that it wouldn't be
easily obtained, and that idea was dropped.
ART DAILY
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Well, Bruce, in answer to your question, it's R-15, it's
about an acre, three units could be placed on it. So that
makes a total of three down there. Plus the two or three
that are already existing.
CHUCK VIDAL
Well, I think that could be a very, you know, you could
calculate that out very easily and I would, to the design
element of that road I would say it's probably going to
be proven that it's adequate to handle that density. I
don't know what your concerns are relative to Power House
Road and other aspects of this.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Have all of you been down to see the site? Spencer, have
you seen that?
SPENCE SCHIFFER
I haven't been down to the site itself, but I've been down
around Power Plant Road and that vicinity, and the only
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FOItM50 C.F.HOECKElO.O.l.Il.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
problem I really have was with respect to the future pro-
blem of handling traffic on Power Plant Road at some time
in the future it becomes necessary for the City to widen
that road, I would like to see them participate in the
cost of that. I think that would be covered in a....
That's an agreement that the developer's already made.
He is willing to agree to that on a plat.
ART DAILY
CHUCK VIDAL
And, Art, because this is a private road, is the developer
going to make restrictions on the parking on the road
itself?
RON WINDEMULLER
It will be posted and towed.
ART DAILY
Sure, definitely.
CHUCK VIDAL
Because that would affect the capacity of the road.
JACK JENKINS
Well, my feeling about it hasn't been satisfied about it
at all, because of the topography over here, twelve units
going in a strip this long and that wide, it hasn't changed
a bit. Because this is completely unusuable land.
ART DAILY
What is it that bothers you about the development?
JACK JENKINS
Well, two or three things about it. In the first place,
any parking that is not in a marked parking spot in here,
any time there is a fire, any time there is reasons for
access of any kind, one or two cars in the wrong location
makes it inaccessible. Anybody that has a party down there
that attracts more than one extra car, that thing's going
to be a traffic jam. I don't see how it could be other-
wise.
ART DAILY
Well, to start with, Jack, you've got 24 parking spaces
here for twelve units, which is 37% over what's required.
JACK JENKINS
Let's say you have two for each.
ART DAILY
Okay. And the way they're aligned at the present time they
provide for a 24 foot wide, or wider, at all points, access
road through here. Now, there's a couple of points, where
if a guy misparks, it can happen anywhere. It can happen
anywhere. We can't control that.
JACK JENKINS
But it's different, Art, if that road is one that goes
through here and there's a crossroad here and an alley
behind it here. There's all kinds of other access. It's
a different situation than that situation. We're not
looking at generalitites, we're looking at a specific lo-
cation. If one person has a party with ten cars only, therE
isn't anyplace for them to go except in that road.
ART DAILY
In your mind, Jack, is parking the main problem?
JACK JENKINS
The need from my side, the situation is this. You're put-
ting twelve units on a strip of land that has only this
much use to it, and there's no other area available. It's
just that's what it is.
ART DAILY
Well, we can provide additional parking if that's the kind
of problem we've got. We've got some space in here that
we could use for visitor parking.
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100 Leaves
~OR'" 10 C. F. HOECKr::~ a. B. I> L. co.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
Well, do you think it's safe to say that there could be a
possible congestion? Would it be possible that there could
possibly be a situation where a fire truck couldn't get in
and out of there? Or an ambulance?
JACK JENKINS
I could see it happening, and I could see it happening on
Sneaky Lane and a number of other places that we have in
the City. I think it's just a matter of degree, and if
we resolve it down to an acceptable safety factor, then
you have a legitimate project. We have space for additio-
nal parking if that's something that you feel we ought to
put in.
ART DAILY
JACK JENKINS
What do you think about the statement I made? Do you think
it is possible we could have a problem? Fire, ambulance?
RON WINDEMULLER
Very remotely, Jack, if you've got enough width there that
you've got 24 feet, even if one car parked illegally, there
is still adequate room for an ambulance to get by. We're
not talking any half a mile of length. We're talking a-
bout a maximum of a couple three hundred feet, and a fire
truck, as far as getting in the way of their, one good
bump and a car is out of the way. That's been done con-
tinually.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
What did you do to satisfy our request that the back of
the building be opened up to some kind of fire fighting
equipment?
RICH WILDE
Well, the only thing we can do is that the one fire hy-
drant was moved farther north to this location and this
walkway exists in the back. Other than that there is
really is not much that can be done on that site to allow
other access.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
How high is the retaining wall going to be on this side of
that walkway?
RICH WILDE
Back here?
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Yes.
RICH WILDE
Some place there won't be any.
DONNA BAER
It looks like 15 feet all the way along.
RICH WILDE
There is a fifteen foot elevation change from the front
to the back, however, at the rear of the building, you're
one floor above the front of the building. The access is
one story above the front access.
DONNA BAER
Well, you're cutting in here for the building. The differ-
ential here is roughly fifteen feet all the way across.
Your path will be, you'll come up your path by stairs, is
this correct?
ART DAILY
Jim, we've addressed this problem at some length with Bill
Caille, who is principally concerned with this, and if
Bill's still here, we might ask him to present his comments.
A lot of information about the units and their construc-
tion was given to Bill that he wasn't familiar with before.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
What's your feeling, Bill?
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM" C.F.HOECKELB.B.&l.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
BILL CAILLE
Well, as Jack mentioned, there could be
something here. That I'll agree with.
you're ever going to control that
a problem across Main Street.
a problem with
There's no way
There could be
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
But you have alternate routes to go on.
BILL CAILLE
Okay. I'm not concerned with, if that problem occurs and
you lose a building, that's not my concern as long as we
don't lose any people. I'm more concerned with the life-
safety of the thing. We've had several meetings over this.
It's not the best situation in the world, granted. They
have made concessions with this walkway across the back
which gives the people access out the back themselves,
which I'm more concerned with them getting out. As far
as the fire equipment getting in, that's one of the things
that may happen and it may not, I can't argue the point.
Jack's got a valid point. I can't argue that with him.
JACK JENKINS
Are these two or three story buildings?
BILL CAILLE
Three, technically.
JACK JENKINS
So the access to the back is through all floors or just
the top floor?
No, just the second floor, which will be, from what I
gather, that will be the living area. In other words,
without an elevation drawing it's awful hard. That's
what confused me so badly on it. What we're talking a-
bout is underground parking, basically, except at the front
it's not. The back will be below grade. The grade, the
finished grade from my understanding, will be at the level
of the second floor in the back only. They will have ac-
cess out of the living area through that way. Also, the
fireman can, if they have to, at least get around there.
It's not the most ideal situation in the world, but we
have reduced the hazard by providing better access to a
point where Willard thinks he can handle it.
BILL CAILLE
CHUCK VIDAL
What's the maximum distance that you can operate or fight
a fire from a truck or your equipment? In other words,
let's say, we're talking about 300 feet and your truck
gets stopped down here, and is it impossible to say that
you could still fight that fire by running hoses if, in
fact, that happened, or let's say, you get to here, is
that an unreasonable distance, because a City block is
270 feet long.
BILL CAILLE
No, it's not, if you get over 500 feet, then you've got a
problem. The less line you lay, handwise you work with
the easier it is. By the time you lay 300 feet of 2~"
hose you don't move it once you get down here.
BRUCE GILLIS
How about coming down from the top?
BILL CAILLE
Well, Willard and I discussed at one time, it's possible
you can set the snorkle up in here. That's a steep grade.
Handling a 2~" handline it would be impossible. There is
a foot path here. Yeah, walking down it is one thing,
and trying to handle a 2~" handline is something else.
They get to be pretty awkward the longer it get's the worse
it gets. It takes three men to drag a line. Especially
after it's charged.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
FORM '0 C.F.HOECKELB.O.& L. CO.
BRUCE GILLIS
CHAIRJl1AN ADAMS
BRUCE GILLIS
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
ART DAILY
SPENCE SCHIFFER
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Yes, but that would be a shorter way then from the
We've all played around with this considerably and nit-
picked it to death again. The one glaring fact that sticks
out in my mind is that, perhaps, we haven't faced the real
issue and the real issue may be that this piece of pro-
perty has density, as proposed, to be as densely populated
as it is, is probably pretty damned unsuitable for that
kind of development. Maybe you want to toss that around
a little. I don't know how suitable it is to any devel-
opment.
I agree with that, but where, again do we stand, what was
approved before to what we're considering now?
I think that if you really want to make a decision with
some responsibility, you let the City lawyer worry about
where do we stand, and make a decision that has something
to do with how health, welfare, and safety of the commun-
ity.
I might comment on it a little bit, Jim. The first thing
that occurs to me is that if, in fact, the City has con-
cerns about the viability of the project at all, it should
have come up a long time ago. A tremendous amount of time
and effort has been spent on this. Now, I recognize that
this is the kind of argument that you guy's hear all the
time, but I think you're also familiar with how many times
we've been in here , and I think it even goes back to last
year. Secondly, after talking with Bill, Bill's conver-
sations with Willard Clapper, it appears to us that we
have eliminated all unacceptable safety difficulties with
respect to this property. We have brought ourselves down
within an acceptable safety factor.
And then here's the third thing. Of course you mentioned
that, it goes back to the initial proposals that were
made to the City last year when annexation of this pro-
perty was approved. And while admittedly, no specific
designs were presented at that time, the City did see some
early plats which did show twelve units along here, an-
nexation, rezoning and everything else was conditioned upon
48 units going in on this property. So these are all con-
siderations.
I would like to say that I agree with Art. I think it's
kind of late in the game to tell these people you don't
like their project at all and you can't build it down
there. There are legitimate problems, and there seem to
be, let's work with them and get to them and deal with
them. I mean if we're just trying to nit-pick and find
other ways to tell them we don't like it, that's not valid.
Well, if we were nit-picking this for crazy reasons, I ad-
mit we probably have been evading the one issue that we
should have addressed ourselves to a long time ago and
all I'm suggesting is that we're considering at this point.
We still have the responsibility. You ask a man who is
apparently an expert in the field if it's an acceptable
situation and he shrugs his shoulders and intimates that
it could be a trap, and we've got certain responsibilities
in that.
I can see that. I don't see these problems as problems
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FO~M 5~ C. F. HOECK"" B. B. II< ". CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
that can't be resolved.
JACK JENKINS
Have you looked at the particular site with the things
layed out on it?
SPENCE SCHIFFER
No, I said I haven't, and I'd like to.
JACK JENKINS
Okay. This is the thing that makes me make my decision and
my feeling has been that from the first time I saw it and
I haven't changed it since, and that's the reason.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Well, all I'm saying is if that is the case, it's late in
the game to be telling these people that, to forget it,
you know? If at one time, you led them to believe that
they could build the thing if they resolved certain pro-
blems and they come back and say "here's how we resolved
them" and if we don't like it we can tell them no good, but
don't say "Well, forget those problems. The main problem
is that we don't like your project and you're not going
to build it."
CHUCK VIDAL
Addressing yourself to Jack's problem, I see two possible
solutions. One is you reduce the density significantly or
you provide enough parking to where you eliminate almost
100% the possibility that people will park on the street.
Or you possibly widen the street out, to where if that oc-
curs, which is what he's concerned about, that you haven't
reduced the safety factors significantly, that that can
occur and you still have access. And maybe that says that
"Alright, this road is adequate for access,"but to put to
lie Jack's apprehension, if you've got a guy on each side
of the street, parked, can you still get a fire truck by,
maybe widening that road to 28 feet or to 30 feet would,
in fact, allow that to happen, that the whole road could
be parked from one end to the other with cars, and, in fact,
you could drive a fire truck down the middle of it. I
don't know what those measurements are, but maybe that's
an alternative that you could consider to where, then I'd
say you've reduced significantly the probability, not the
possibility, but the probability of there being a problem.
JACK JENKINS
I say this. If you start at one unit, which is obviously
ridiculous for the use of the land, and you come up to a
matter of twelve, which to me has the same connotation,
it's so jam packed I don't feel it's safe for anybody.
Somewhere in the middle you have compromise, but, that num-
ber of people and the potential for any weekend situation
which could put 15 or 20 extra cars in that area, and the
reason that this is different is that it isn't like up
town. If you've got blocks in all directions, if people
can't find a parking place here they go around the block,
a block or two away they park and walk to where they're
going. Down here there's no way to get there. In the
winter time they're not going to park up above and walk
down there. They can't park out on this street. They
can't go anywhere but here.
RON WINDEMULLER
This is an access road
It's a matter of what?
there.
walk down there. They will use it.
200 and some feet from here to
ART DAILY
They're all going to members of the same ownership assoc-
iation. Maybe there would be some....
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FOR~ 5~ C. F. HOECKEL B. B. /I L. 1:0.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
Regular Meeting
December 18, 1973
Aspen Planning & Zoning
CHUCK VIDAL
ART DAILY
CHUCK VIDAL
RON WINDEMULLER
CHUCK VIDAL
RON WINDEMULLER
CHUCK VIDAL
RON WINDEMULLER
CHUCK VIDAL
ART DAILY
BILL CAILLE
ART DAILY
BILL CAILLE
JACK JENKINS
BILL CAILLE
JACK JENKINS
BILL CAILLE
JACK JENKINS
BILL CAILLE
Can you widen that road?
Let me go on, Jack. There is room for more parking. I
didn't get to complete that earlier, along this part of
the road here, which I guess is one of the areas where
there is a threat that someone might park and block off a
fire truck. And there's also space along in here where we
could provide six or seven spaces in here and post it visi-
tor parking.
But you still might not have enough parking. I guess the
answer, if Jack's problem really is access, I would be in-
clined to try to widen the street and not necessarily pro-
vide more parking.
How much is enough, Chuck?
Well, I think that's a calculable thing. You can put two
cars and you can determine how wide the fire truck is....
At 24 feet, you can do that now. You can put two cars on
either side and still go down the middle.
With a fire truck?
Yes.
Well, maybe I would present that argument. I mean, if you
could validate that, you know, and maybe put an extra
couple of feet on that for contingency or safety's sake,
I guess, I don't know whether that would satisfy Jack at
all, but relative to the issue that he's brought up, it
would satisfy me a long way.
Let's ask Bill how wide a track you need to bring that truc~
through, the big one.
To drive it through?
Well, I think that's what bothers ....
I've never actually measured, to be perfectly honest with
you, but I would consider 6 or 7 feet maximum, just in the
width.
How many units do we have in town?
We have three pumpers and a snorkel.
So it's four units, and on a given fire, we'll say might
encompass three of those, how many units would you want to
use?
Two minimum. Possibly a third one.
How
and
mal
would you
out again
situation?
get three of them in there, turned around,
and function with them. Would that be a nor-
Are you happy with that?
No, it's not normal, and like I mentioned to start with,
that it leaves a guess. It's not the most ideal situation
in the world. I'd love to see another road out there some-
where, but physically it's possible.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM" C.F.HOECKEL 0.0."" l. CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
JACK JENKINS
Everybody envisions a road, a fire truck, a single pro-
blem. But let's take three fire trucks and two pickups
and the place where the people would come down to fight
the fire park their trucks. How many people are in the
volunteer fire department?
BILL CAILLE
JACK JENKINS
BILL CAILLE
JACK JENKINS
BILL CAILLE
JACK JENKINS
BILL CAILLE
JACK JENKINS
Thirty.
Thirty. And how do they get to the fire?
Some ride in the trucks, most of them go in their own
cars.
In their own cars. Where would they park them in this con-
dition.
Well....
I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm dead serious.
Right, okay. As long as you're behind the truck.
Oh, behind the truck?
where we've got to get
the fire truck?
Then what if we get a situation
that truck out of there in a hurry,
BILL CAILLE
Then we're in a world of hurt, Jack. Then what you're
talking about now is a professional paid department,with
somebody still at the station.
I don't mean that. I mean, we get in here and we get a
situation where we want to get that truck backing out and
all the volunteer trucks are behind it. We're going to
have thirty people coming in some number of cars, whatever
it is.
JACK JENKINS
BILL CAILLE
Okay, you say they bring ten cars, that's one thing they
no better than to do is to block the truck in to start
with. I'll say that much for the fire department.
But let's say these people are home and there's just five
extra cars and somebody tries to get thirty cars into there.
JACK JENKINS
BILL CAILLE
Well, like I mentioned earlier, I'm not really concerned
if all twelve units burn to the ground, so be it. If we
can't get in there to put the thing out, that's a property
damage thing and I'm not really concerned with that.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Maybe you need to get there to get the people out.
BILL CAILLE
That's what we're concerned with is getting the people out.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Well, what recommendations can you make specific recom-
mendations to these people so that they can resolve that?
JACK JENKINS
Let's take the situation where we can take three fire truckf
and fifteen volunteer pieces of equipment - pickups, pas-
senger cars, whatever, and as a result of a fire in three
of those units or four, because they're connected that's
very simple thing to have. With three fire trucks and fif-
teen additional units, and every parking space is filled.
BILL CAILLE
Well, with a 24 foot road, they park at the edge of the.'
road. If you have one car each side, Jack, how wide's a
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100 Leaves
FORM" C.F.HOECKELB.B.IiL.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
car? Four feet, five feet? That's ten feet you're taking
up. That still leaves you fourteen. And I can get a
truck through. If I can't get it through 14 feet, I'm
hurting. I can see your point, and to a point I agree.
It's not the most ideal situation in the world. But, they
have made.... As far as that goes we can sit up on the
bridge and we can pour water over it, with a snorkel I
can hit the end of that building.
BRUCE GILLIS
Would that be any better if there was a fire wall between
each unit?
BILL CAILLE
Well, okay. With their construction, there is, which is
another concession they made today. It'll be type five,
one hour. These are actually individual units with a
two-hour wall between each one, which limits the hazard
again. The hazard is still there, but the ratio is being
reduced. Now, I'm not saying you're not going to have a
fire down there, you're not going to lose the whole thing.
But they're reducing the hazard by the particular type of
construction they're going to do. This is one of the other,
what is it, fire zone 3 down there, they're allowed type
five ... one-hour, Jack, is it?
JACK JENKINS
I don't know.
BILL CAILLE
And they're going to go one hour plus each unit will be
individual with a one hour wall for here, an air space
and another one hour wall, plus the underground parking
are all concrete, which will ease another hazard. So I
think what we're getting into now is construction more than
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Just a nervous flicking of your small finger. Any more
questions?
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Well, now, you were talking about the possibility of hav-
ing more access to the... you know, talking about another
road. Is there any way in the world to get another road
down here?
BILL CAILLE
Not with the 750 slope.
CHUCK VIDAL
I mean, that would have been the simplest solution....
It might be, it's feasible to bring a, you know, a better
path down, or that type of thing. But nothing for ve-
hicles.
ART DAILY
Well, I'll entertain any kind of a motion at this point.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Well, where do we stand procedurally on this, I mean, did
we disapprove it the first few times around, or what hap-
pened?
DONNA BAER
This is stream margins, subdivision and Ordinance #19.
ART DAILY
Is this....
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Well, you need conceptual approval of the project. We need
preliminary approval of the plat and we need ....
DONNA BAER
Approval or disapproval of the stream margin.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 10 C.F.HOECKELB.B.l!.L.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Hunter stream margin.
CHUCK VIDAL
And then we have to clarify where we, because you know,
I thought we were kind of through conceptual by virtue of
the past approving of this in concept of density.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
I didn't understand that.
DONNA BAER
Yeah, I think, I think that's true. I think you're right.
On Ordinance #19, we gave them tentative approval condi-
tioned on subdivision approval.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
And where do you stand on the subdivision?
DONNA BAER
And we're still pending on stream margin.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Is this the first time you've been here on a subdivision?
No, it's about the third.
ART DAILY
CHUCK VIDAL
They've been sent back with corrections to make.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
So it's been disapprovaed each one of those times or ap-
proved with conditions?
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
No, it has not been approved, they've just simply been re-
quested to go back and try to work out some better ar-
rangements. And you know, that's been our problem.
CHUCK VIDAL
The last one was the access, satisfying somebody that that
road was adequate to handle the traffic circulation and
address themselves to Jack's problem.
DONNA BAER
Yes, there's a long... There were other conditions origi-
nally. For example, that Wright-McLaughlin do a drain-
age study as a condition of final plat. I mean, there's
a long complicated story behind it.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Anyway, the important thing tonight is to make a decision
on the preliminary plat.
DONNA BAER
Yes. Well, and I suppose stream margins, but that should
be conditional on the drainage study anyway.
And that's still pending, the drainage thing.
CHUCK VIDAL
ART DAILY
Right, and that would be presented prior to final plat ap-
plication.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Well, so the stream margin request has not been presented
before, is this...
DONNA BAER
Yes, it's being presented the first time.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Nothing's ever been done on it?
DONNA BAER
Yes, they... the original plat had this turn-around over
here in the flood plain. It was moved back.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Yes, well, just what I want to know is that could we ap-
prove the stream margin SUbject to those things?
DONNA BAER
No, it never was definitely approved, and it should be sub-
ject to the Wright-McLaughlin study because, you see here,
you've got, for an example, fifteen feet differential
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100 Leaves
FORM 10 C.F.HOECKELB.B.I.IL.CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
and what, about 20 feet of cribbing here? And you're going
to be, you know, disturbing this natural bank to an extent
that we don't know what happens to the drainage, the run-
off the pollution into the river. As a result, the same
situation prevails here, in other words you're cutting
back into that. This is extremely steep.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
So what you're saying is we can't really do anything under
stream margins until Wright-McLaughlin....
DONNA BAER
Well, I wouldn't think so because you don't know what, I
mean, I don't know what's going to happen to that.
Well, traditionally, stream margin comes in as a part of
building permit anyway, and then it comes before us at
that time.
CHUCK VIDAL
DONNA BAER
They made a stream margin request.
CHUCK VIDAL
Oh, they did? I see. Okay.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
You see, my problem is, you've got to take action within
a certain time period, so what's the time period for stream
margins?
DONNA BAER
There's not one, I don't think.
SPENCE SCHIFFER
I think there is one.
DONNA BAER
Well, they can, and essentially what they did was agree to
go back. I mean, otherwise we'd get into a jammed up situ-
ation where you just deny and then let them come back and
deny and let them come back or approve it with conditions
that are impossible, you know, to approve on.
The Engineering Department request in it's first recom-
mendation memorandum that we have a Wright-McLaughlin
study done prior to final plat. And that's kind of the
condition it's gone on and the memo of the Planning Office
of November 20, which sort of came along with our meeting
of that time, on that day, stated that stream margins
determination okay subject to Wright-McLaughlin. Maybe
that could be made continuing still a condition.
ART DAILY
SPENCE SCHIFFER
That's your recommendation at some place?
DONNA BAER
Yes. It was the original one and because of the changes
we specifically asked or made. I think the problem is,
sure, you can take the whole hill away, you know. The
P & Z's problem with it is, how much engineering, re-eng-
ineering of the site are you going, is acceptable. In
other words, that's all of our problems, you know. What
can you do? You can build out in the middle of the Gulf
of Mexico, too. You know, they can poke a whole hill away
to get that extra access and circulation.
CHUCK VIDAL
I'd like to make a motion that we approve the preliminary
subdivision map as submitted, that we postpone any action
on the stream margin request and consider that at the same
time we consider the final subdivision map, at which time
we should have the available information from the drainage
study.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Do I hear a second?
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 50 C. r. ~OE:CKEL B. e. II< l. CO.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
BRUCE GILLIS
I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Any discussion?
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Yeah, I'd like.... what I would say with some concern after
this procedural hangup about doing things with ,
I would prefer to approve the stream margin subject to the
Wright-McLaughlin study, because that is what the Plan-
nigh Office recommends, you know, I think we should do that,
subject to that study.
CHUCK VIDAL
I guess the problem is that relative to the stream margin,
we're not really approving anything, 'cause it's all roun-
ded up in that study, so procedurally, that would be satis-
factory with me as far as....
SPENCE SCHIFFER
I just prefer to approve it subject to that, rather than
say, let's just wait and see what happens.
BRUCE GILLIS
I withdraw my second.
CHUCK VIDAL
I amend my motion to approve the stream margin also at
this point, subject to the drainage plan submittal and
approval at that time.
BRUCE GILLIS
Now I second.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Okay, any more discussion?
I guess we better have a roll call vote, Casey.
CASEY ARMSTRONG
Jim Adams?
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
No.
CASEY ARMSTRONG
Chuck Vidal?
CHUCK VIDAL
Yes.
CASEY ARMSTRONG
Bruce Gillis?
BRUCE GILLIS
Yes.
CASEY ARMSTRONG
Jack Jenkins?
JACK JENKINS
No.
CASEY ARMSTRONG
Spence Schiffer?
SPENCE SCHIFFER
Yes.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
Okay, thank you, gentlemen.
ART DAILY
I have one question that just occurred to me as the vote
was going on. Does that also constitute Ordinance #19
approval, or was that something that was sort of resolved?
DONNA BAER
Well, that's subject on the final subdivision approval.
That's subject on subdivision being approved.
Okay, so we're through, let's say, conceptual stage on that.
Is that, I know that went to the committee and they ap-
proved it.
ART DAILY
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORJol 51 C. F. HO~CKEL B. B. II L. \;0.
Regular Meeting
Aspen Planning & Zoning
December 18, 1973
ART DAILY
Thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN ADAMS
You're welcome.
Bruce Gillis made a motion to adjourn the meeting, seconded
by Spence Schiffer. All in favor, motion carried. Meeting
adjourned at 8:10 p.m.