HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20070717
ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING-
MINUTES- JULY 17. 2007
John Rowland opened the regular meeting of the City of Aspen Planning & Zoning
Commission at 4:35 pm. Commissioners present were: Brian Speck, David
Guthrie, LJ Erspamer and John Rowland. Dylan Johns recused himself from the
Lift One Hearing. Staff present: Jim True, Special Counsel; Chris Bendon, Joyce
Allgaier, Jason Lasser, Community Development; Jackie Lothian, Deputy Clerk.
DECLARATION OF CONFLICTS OF INTEREST
Dylan Johns was conflicted on Lift One.
COMMENTS
Joyce Allgaier said that there would be an extra meeting on July 24th to keep up
with Lift One.
CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING (7/10/7):
LIFT ONE CONCEPTUAL PUD/TIMESHARE
John Rowland opened the continued public hearing for Lift One. Bob Daniel
reiterated the Lift One area Master Plan Goals of history, accessibility and vitality.
Daniel said that the history of this area for skiing, the accessibility of increasing the
safety of this area was to become a vibrant aspect of our community and the
vitality to create some body heat at the bottom of Lift lA.
Daniel said that there were some questions about the placement of the museum
adjacent to Dean Street and the pedestrian experience in context of the approved
HPC conceptual application for the relocation of Skiers Chalet Lodge aka the Ski
Museum and where it was originally proposed on the application. Daniel utilized a
power point presentation for the views of the proposals. There were two egresses
from the garage.
Daniel said the ski access from the current edge of the Skiers Chalet was 18 feet to
the conifers; between the upper Lift One terminal and the stance of trees was about
24 feet; between Skiers Chalet Steakhouse at the edge of the windbreak (non-
historic addition) on the deck and tress was about 8 feet and the bottom terminal
and the stand of Aspen tress was about 18 feet of separation. The redevelopment
ski access was 22 feet at the upper lift tower; 16 feet between the lift tower and the
stair and elevator tower required as part of the egress for the affordable housing
with the 8 feet on the other side of the tower and 24 feet between the bottom
terminal and the edge of Ski Museum. Daniel said the proposed improvements
were re-configured with the Skiers Chalet Steakhouse as affordable housing and
the Skiers Chalet Lodge as the Ski Museum.
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MINUTES- JULY 17. 2007
Daniel explained the pedestrian or skier access points using power point. The
restaurant was a public space and facility as well as the access to the lobby of the
lodge. Daniel stated there was a total path of 182 feet, 124 was walking distance
from the drop off point to the snow then 58 feet to the lift.
LJ Erspamer asked if the ski run came right down to the roundabout. Daniel
replied that it does. Erspamer asked if Shadow Mountain Condos were
encroaching on the city property. Daniel replied there were some physical
encroachments into the city right-of-way at that point.
Daniel noted there were some questions raised regarding the public amenities
about the relationship between those facilities that would be utilized by members,
guests of the lodge and the general public. Daniel said the difference was in the
application because they figured out how to place an upper deck on the restaurant
for people to watch the Winter National and ski races.
Sunny Vann utilized a map showing the site with the 8040 Greenline; the existing
zoning was conservation that accommodates ski lifts and the other zoning was
lodge and part of the conservation would be rezoned lodge.
Daniel used power point to show what winter looked like on the site. Holly noted
the winter scenes were taken on race day of the 2005 Winter National. Erspamer
asked where the road below the Mountain Queen was located. Allgaier replied that
the pull out page 16 showed the road. Daniel said the road was not a ski company
access road but rather a fire safety road.
Daniel said the use plan was that a membership lodge provides capital to build the
project to achieve the goals of the community and not seek the 25% free market
component that was allowed under the incentive lodge program. Daniel said the
use plan addresses the issue of accessibility. The lodge operation had a full service
registration, concierge, support staff, traditional lobby and bell service, maid
service, guest facilities, dining, exercise, ski lockers and transportation services.
Daniel stated there were 32 suites and 97 separate divisible rental rooms; the mix
of suites was between 1 and 5 bedrooms. There were walk up units on South
Aspen Street (the old Holland House parcel). Each member gets 14 nights in the
winter between December 1 st and April lOth; 131 nights. Lodge members get time
in the shoulder seasons and the members do not have specific ownership in any
specific unit. Daniel said that over 65% ofthe visitors in the winter were 2 people,
which shows that 1 or 2 bedrooms would be utilized. There were 8 memberships
per suite that equaled 256 total memberships and the operator or owner owns the
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facility; they retain the right to rent those available keys when they are not in use
by the members. Daniel said that it was important to have heads on pillows to help
support the public restaurant.
Erspamer asked if the public could book a room before 30 days. Allgaier said that
when Community Development originally began talking about fractional
ownership in 2001, the code was revised to include fractional ownership and
operational provisions can make a fractional work well with more hotbeds.
Vann said that this project was designed to the city's new incentive growth
management regulations and lodge regulations, which were adopted in 2005. The
affordable housing mitigation could be 30% as opposed to 60% of the new
employees generated by lodge keys and the new commercial space. Vann said that
there was a documented 38 keys on the site from the Holland House, Skiers Chalet
Lodge and the Skiers Chalet Restaurant; so they have to mitigate for 30% of net
new employees of the 59 employees or 9 employees; the mitigation was about 17'12
employees and they have proposed 11 affordable housing units or 20.25 employees
on site. Vann noted Ski Co will assume the responsibility for their employees.
Holly said there would be 6 deed-restricted units in the old Skiers Chalet
Steakhouse.
David Guthrie asked if there was an internal elevator in the restaurant. Daniel
replied there was an internal elevator. Guthrie asked the size of the elevator.
Holly answered it would be about 6' by 8' or 9' to accommodate a stretcher.
Guthrie said the owner operator would keep the income from the public rental of
units. Daniel said that during the unused plan period there would be a sharing with
the members. Vann said that unlike a fractional ownership project where an owner
owns a deeded interest in real estate; as a membership they will have no ability to
hold a key back and there was the economic incentive for the owner/operator to
rent the units. Guthrie asked if the restaurant would be open in the off-seasons.
Daniel replied that it was too early to speculate about that.
Erspamer asked if the lock off units worked well. Vann answered that he did not
have any personal information on that even though the Hyatt was designed to
address the same issue.
Erspamer asked the width of the trail if the lift was moved up 120 feet that
becomes an hour glass. Erspamer asked about the tax district. Daniel replied that
it was their intent to form a tax improvement district in order to fund the
improvements; if Aspen Mountain Lodge and the Lift One Lodge goes through
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MINUTES- JULY 17. 2007
then it would be both properties. Erspamer asked if there was parking for
employee housing. Daniel replied yes.
John Rowland asked ifthere were negotiations with the volleyball courts. Daniel
answered that he had a conversation with Stephen Ellsperman; originally the Parks
Department had 2 locations for the volleyball sand courts one was at Koch Lumber
and for purposes of the community to disperse the courts; they are firmly
committed for the replacement of those 2 courts. Rowland suggested the base of
Lift lA. Rowland asked about the snow quality underneath the tunnel. Daniel said
it would a 32' by 40' ski through and they have not worked out the logistics and
they have a firm commitment to keep the snow.
Rowland stated that originally the museum was setback in the corner and HPC
wanted it brought forward. Daniel and Vann said this was HPC's preferred
location up front.
Public Comments:
1. Gail Morgan said that Bob said there wouldn't be any variances requested
except for the elevators but it seems that much of the lodge was placed in the
conservation zone. Morgan said that the public would have a better opportunity to
use the museum ifit were near the lift. Allgaier said the zone change was part of
the application. Allgaier said the Historic Preservation Commission would like to
see the uses for the historic building be down on Dean Street.
2. Steve Knor asked how one prevents members from over booking units and
then not using them. Allgaier said that as long as someone was using the unit it
was better than having an empty unit; the walk-in was a desirable feature for the
units to act like a lodge.
3. Vince Galluccio asked the incentive for these owners to let the operator rent
the units. Daniel replied there was shared revenue.
MOTION: LJ Erspamer moved to continue the Lift One Conceptual
PUD/Timeshare top July 24th; seconded by David Guthrie. All in favor,
APPROVED.
CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING (5/15/7):
NORTH OF NELL PUD
John Rowland opened the continued public on the North of Nell PUD. Jason
Lasser explained that the packet was the same packet with a supplement addressing
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architectural character and site design. Lasser said that the North of Nell was built
in 1969 in compliance with the standards at the time and now the uses were non-
conforming with the floor area calculations. The commercial ratio was 1 to 1 and
the residential was .5 to 1.
Lasser said the saw tooth eve line looked up from the street did not show a straight
eve line; this roofline was part of the architectural character to be maintained.
Lasser noted that the North of Nell and the Aspen Square were the first two big
buildings that initiated growth management and was part ofthe history of Aspen.
Lasser said increasing the architectural element with a big chimney element and
flues that come up about 4 or 5 feet. The architectural arch element was at the 42
foot height cut into the roof. There was concern for the vertical architectural
elements as they come down to the first eve. Lasser said there was also concern
for the color scheme from the Little Nell and Gondola Plaza extending to the North
of Nell was that this might look like one base village. Stafffound that the building
doesn't comply with the architecture character criteria; the pedestrian experience
was uninviting and the sidewalk was narrow with trees.
Lasser said the majority of the project was based upon Dean Street improvements;
their plan was to put a new amount of retail on the Dean Street side.
Glenn Horn introduced the architect, Randy Wedum, and the manager, Joe Raczak.
Horn said that they were over on the residential floor area ratio. Horn said that
Randy was adding a chase to the outside of the building to cover mechanical,
which increased the residential floor area by 54 square feet. Horn said this was
approved by 60 individual homeowners and it wasn't easy to dress up a shoe box.
Randy Wedum stated they were breaking up the massing of a building that was a
box; central elements (greenhouses) were added to beak up the roofs into three
bays. Currently the railings go from one end of the building to the other so he
added the vertical columns, which were fifteen feet from the front ofthe building
and go over the air conditioner pipes and other wires. Wedum said they were
under the 42 foot height limit. We dum said the city required a drainage system
upon the remodel; they would put in a gutter system and drain into the storm
drainage.
Glenn Horn added that the biggest pedestrian amenity improvement would be to
not have water dripping on people's heads.
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ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING-
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We dum said they were working with the Residences at Nell on Dean Street and the
North of Nell was spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of improvements
with staircases, sidewalk and snowmelt.
Joe Raczak said that you would be able to walk from Durant Street to Dean Street
through the building as a short cut.
John Rowland asked about the columns not coming to the ground. Wedum replied
the columns were 60 feet to 10 feet back like a cake stepping back from the upper
floors; the columns were not structurally on the same line.
Brian Speck asked if the car ramp was being expanded so it was not so dangerous.
We dum replied that they never discussed the ramp only the lighting system; they
could look into the ramp.
Dylan Johns asked where the mechanical system was located and if stacks would
be coming out above the eve line. We dum responded that they were not changing
any mechanical; the chimney was on the roof and the elevator.
LJ Erspamer asked if the city wanted to get rid of the overhangs from buildings.
Jason Lasser replied that the over hang was okay but the columns were the real
issue. Erspamer said the land use code wanted contemporary design; he said what
was presented looked contemporary. Chris Bendon said that Gondola Plaza may
be changing and there was no application yet but it was talked about by SkiCo. Joe
Raczak said that the North of Nell cannot be misconstrued to be like the Little Nell
or the Residences in any way. Wedum said the owners were not sure if they
wanted the teal color either, so the final color of the railing was not decided.
Erspamer said that they just received these changes an hour prior and he just found
out that it doesn't comply with the architectural character.
Erspamer asked about the pedestrian place coming from Durant to Starbucks; was
that a public walkway or was it owned by the North of Nell. Lasser replied that
what they own it was under their eve; the wall has been modified. Erspamer asked
how the North of Nell could be liable for the pedestrian. Lasser responded that it
was part of the PUD process to provide pedestrian amenities for open space.
MOTION: Brian Speck moved to continue the meeting until 7: 15 pm; seconded
by LJ Erspamer. All infavor, APPROVED.
No public comments.
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ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING-
MINUTES- JULY 17. 2007
Brian Speck said that this was consistent to open out towards the gondola tickets.
There was discussion of the gutter system by the commission; David Guthrie said
that the straight gutters were a matter of practicality rather than cost savings
because the saw tooth would trap rather free flow water. Dylan Johns said that the
saw tooth would compromise the gutter system and have obstacles in the drainage
and would not work as well.
Johns asked if it was the city philosophy to have more sun on the streets. Chris
Bendon said the solar issue for streets was important. Johns said cutting back the
roof overhang would improve the sun onto the streets. Joe Raczak said that the
saw tooth roof doesn't function very well.
Erspamer asked if the columns broke up the massing of the building. Lasser
replied that it was difficult from this drawing and the overall plan should be looked
at; the reality of the columns was that they were thin 8-12 inch wide fins.
David Guthrie said that this was a box and he did not want to dress up a box.
Johns said that P&Z was reviewing this because of a problem not started by this
. building, Dean Street. Johns said that this was a good time to look at the safety of
the ramp. Johns stated that they shouldn't have to foot the whole bill of cleaning
up the sidewalk.
John Rowland said it was difficult trying to revitalize an old building and wanted
more detail on the columns on how they were integrated. Rowland said that the
first floor was great with the glass doors but the other architectural styles were
competing.
MOTION: Dylan Johns moved to approve Resolution #019, 2007 for a Planned
Unit Developmentfor the North of Nell Condominiums with conditions and the
applicant will look into improving access into the garage; seconded by LJ
Erspamer. Roll call vote: Speck, yes; Erspamer, yes; Guthrie, no; Johns, yes;
Rowland, no. APPROVED 3-2.
Discussion: Guthrie voted against because of the architecture; Rowland said the
architectures competed with each other.
MINUTES
MOTION: John Rowland moved to approve the minutes from March 20, April 2
and April 3, May 1, May 15, June 5, and June 19,2007 with corrections by LJ
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ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING-
MINUTES- JULY 17. 2007
Erspamer to 3/20,4/3, 6/5 & 6/19; seconded by LJ Erspamer. All infavor,
APPROVED. Dylan Johns abstained.
Adjourned at 7:30 p.m.
ckie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk
DECLARATION OF CONFLICTS OF INTEREST ............................................... 1
COMMENTS ............................................................................................................ 1
LIFT ONE CONCEPTUAL PUD/TIMESHARE .................................................... 1
NORTH OF NELL PUD........................................................................................... 4
MINUTES ................................................................................................................. 7
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