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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19690225 - f RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves III\! C.F.HOECI(ELB.B.IIlL.CO. Public Hearing Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission February 25, 1969 Meeting was called to order by the Chairman at 5:10 p.m., Pitkin County Courtroom with the following members present: Chairman George Heneghan Robin Molny Francis Whitaker Dale Mars Absent: Mayor Robert Barnard - excused Councilman John Benninghoff - excused Yvan Tache - excused Chairman Heneghan - IIQ like to open this public hearing and what this is all about is whether we should zone an area in the City for gas stations so that the present ones might be able to change their locations. Prior to this there is always been an area that has been established prior to the hearing. We haven't done this this time, I think the feeling we really want to get is should there be an area ocher than the one zoned in Aspen now for gas stations re-zoned for these gas stations. We'd certainly like to hear all of your opinions because we are not certain ourselves, I know I am not, that there should even be an area re-zoned for gas stations. Are there some comments from the Commission. Robin Molny - One question and that is the only zoned area for gas stations presently is the C-2 zone. Francis Whitaker - Robin, there is a qualification on that. Gas stations are permitted in the C-l District if they are in connection with a parking structure, as an accessory use to a parking structure. Chairman Heneghan - And I believe it has to be enclosed. That is the present zone and apparently no one is interested in doing that. Francis Whitaker - Maybe I should read the present zoning. "Gasoline Stations - May be a conditional use accessory to a parking garage or structure provided all operations are conducted within the principal building or structure subject to the approval of the Board of Adjustment." Now there is a history to that. If i can comment on it. When we drew up the Master Plan, I am the only remaining member of the Commission that was in on that, we excluded gasoline stations from the central commercial district and provided for them right down here in the industrial section. Then there was a question of the need for parking structures. If you have a parking structure you need service station facilities, because many many parking structures operate that way. Put your car in there, fill it up with gas, you can have it serviced and get it at the end of the day. So the zoning ordinance was amended to provide for gasoline stations as I read from the ordinance. Dean Billings - That was intended so they could service the cars that were parked there, it wasn't as a gas pump operation? Francis Whitaker - Thats right. Robin Molny - The C-2 District is this area indicated which is roughly speaking from the alley behind the Hotel Jerome down to the river. What basically is the difference between the C-l and C-2 zones? N? 13 .- . RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves 111141 C.F.HOECKElB.B.lt L. co. Public Hearing, P & Z, 2/25/69, continued. Francis Whitaker - C-2 is more of an industrial type of zoning. The intention is to allow land for retail service, limited industrial purposes. I believe that has been revised but generally includes gas stations, lumber yards, contractor yards, manufacturing of printing, transportation, warehouse and so on. C-l is more retail. Chairman Heneghan - There is one other point here. The existing gasoline stations cannot remodel. They are non-conforming uses and they can't really do anything to the structure except by variance. I believe Texaco was given a variance to do what they did to the outside of the building two years ago. But they are non-conforming uses. They can't remodel the way they are now in anyway. Francis Whitaker - They can remodel to a very slight extent. They can't expand a non-conforming use. Chairman Heneghan - So I don't know, maybe we do have a problem. There certainly a great many people who feel that we do have a problem. We do need more service stations and some people feel they should go in the County, some people feel they should go in the City, so that is what we are here to try and determine. Now we will be happy to hear from anyone. Robin Molny - I have a letter here from John Doremus - why don't you go ahead till I find it. Chairman Heneghan - Does anyone have any suggestions. Joan Lane - I have a question to askeof the gas station owners in the audience. I have often heard that they insist on being on the highway I would like to know if this is true and if so why? Chairman Heneghan - Is there someone here who can answer that, I am not capable of it. Dean Billings - Butch, you've talked about gas station Butch Clark - Where I have talked is in the C-2 area. I am just here out of curiosity. I might add that the C-2 might not be in the City after June. Chairman Heneghan - In years past, there has been a lot of pressure on us to provide more areas for gas stations. In the years past when we have attempted to provide areas for gas stations, there has been tre- mendous outdry, it has never gone through. I would just like to know what everyone here, what there feeling is about it. Whether they think it should be limited to the stations that now exist or expand and if they expand whereto. - As of yesterday, I became a resident of Aspen. I have been coming out here ever since the year 1945, every year there are more and more automobiles around town. It seems to me there is a parking problem, industrial problem and so on. Gas stations at present are all in one rather confined area. When you come up into the village to the gas station, drop off your car, you fill up a parking space in that area. Gas Stations, I think, cause a concentration of cars in a given area. N? 14 --.... RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves MIl C.F.HOECKELB.B.!lL.Co. Public Hearing, P & Z, 2/25/69, continued. If they were dispersed, you would find a little more dispersal of traffic., which might help in solving a nasty traffic problem. Butch Clark - I think there is a desperate need for more gas stations. Where they should go, I think is the question at this time. City Council yesterday took underadvisement the hiring of a permanent planner. I think that the need is so great on a permanent planner that I think we are going to see some action on the hiring of a permanent planner. I would hate to Chairman Heneghan - You mean a regional planner. Butch Clark - Regional planner, I'm sorry, City-County planner. I would hate to see this borad act i f this is to become a reality prior to his looking at the whole area and analyzing the City and County needs and going on that basis. Robin Molny - That is a point well taken. Maybe just let the almost impossible situation get more than impossible. This is one place where we could procrastinate. Dale Mars - Would be nice to know how our litigation is going to come out on the C-2. Robin Molny - Plus the fact that the County is in on this. If you talk to anyone on the County Planning and Zoning, they are thinking in general terms of one or two stations at the airport just to start with. I have found the letter, George, would you like me to read it? Chairman Heneghan - Go ahead, Robin. Robin Molny - This is part of a letter from John Doremus. "Regarding your study of gas station sites, etc., I would propose that the Planning Commission consider the following: that in the event the Commission wishes to make certain stations presently existing in the town from an unconforming use to a conforming use which would allow them to expand and remodel, that concurrently with this these stations be required to provide for sidewalks and planing areas between the curb and sidewalk and further, remove all non-conforming signs. Also at the same time, that the enforc~ment regulations to keep the sidewalk areas open as well as the sign regulations be revised and strengthened as regards gas stations in particular. The second is as important as the first as in talking with Chief Scott regarding this problem he states that unleqs a sidewalk area is specifically designated and physically observable around a gas station, enforcement to keep vehicles and other objects free of the area is absolutely impossible." Chairman Heneghan - Why are they non-conforming now, because they are in an area that is not zoned for gas stations. Can you spot zone them as conforming? Francis Whitaker - Thatis a pretty difficult thing to do. I had exper- ience with that in the City of Carmel. One of the reasons this has been N? 15 --- RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves ""I C.F.HOECKElB.B.lll.CO. Public Hearing, P & Z, 2/25/69, continued. brought up is because it has been stated that if it can be done there why canlt it be done here. The problem there was that every gas station in that City was non-conforming, there was only one on Ocean Avenue, the main street. An overlay zone similar to that, I can't remember what that proposal was a year ago, C-lA, was drawn up but no gasoline stations were allowed on Ocean Avenue. They were all a short or a long block or 2 blocks and several of them were in the C-2 zone. The other point about about that particular example is in the State of California you can have design control and we don't have it here. I for one do not want to see any more gasoline stations until we resolve the problem of parking on the sidewalks, storage of material on the sidewalks, signs on the sidewalk area. I don't see how we are going to do it unless we can draw up a much better control of gas stations. I concur with Robin in that because our regional master plan designated gasoline stations as such in the C-2 zone, I think we should be extremely careful before we open up the zones in the commercial district for gas stations. For one thing we don't have the control and for another we defeat the purpose of the ordinance in trying to encourage parking structures in the downtown area. And I think those are essential and I think we will lose ground in trying to get a parking structure if we allow gasloine stations. I understand that the most of the C-2 now is tied up but it is becoming available. I don't want to see anymore gasoline statmons on Main Street. I think we should leave Main Street a beautiful street with the type of uses we have on it now and not let anymore gasoline stations. If your in a car you can drive off one block off of Main Street. For a dead end town as far as the highway goes, I don't think the gasoline stations have to be on the highway. Chairman Heneghan - Robin, here is another letter if you will read it. Robin Molny - Dear Mr. Heneghan: As Executrix of the Estate of Mr. Arthur W. Mikkelsen, deceased, and for my sisters, Mrs. George Ware and Mrs. Harold Gallegos and for myself, I wish to notify you as Chairman of the Aspen Planning and Zoning Commission that we oppose the suggested change to permit gas stations. on both sides of Main Street in the block between Spring and Original Streets. I refer to the enclosed copies of articles printed in the January 16, 1969 and January 30, 1969 issues of The Aspen Times regarding Mayor Robert Barnard's suggestion or proposal that an ordinance be amended to permit gas stations on both sides of Main Street in the block between Spring and Original Streets. All of the land on the north side of Main Street, between Original and Spring Streets, belongs to my Father's Estate. This property has always been used for residential purposes and at the present time we have no other use in mind. We repsectfully ask that the As~en Planning and Zoning Commission give careful consideration to our opposition to this change. N? 16 ~, -- RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves M!G C.F.HOECKELO.B.& L. co. Public Hearing, P & z, 2/25/69, continued. If there is need for other gas stations, there are other area's not residentially used, that would be much more suitable for this use. We have notified Mayor Robert barnard and the Aspen City Council of our opposition to his proposal also. /s/ Miss Dorothy M. Mikkelsen Robin - This is interesting I think, because all they need do is not sell the property. Chairman Heneghan - Is there anyone here that is for gas stations or someone that has some connection with the present stations. Marge Fisher - Well my land is right across the alley and I am definately not in favor of them. Robin Molny - As far as emergency goes, if we are going to designate certain areas, we need to do it before the land is not available. However, I don't know whether that is that valid. Dean Billings - I wonder how many of you recall a few years back when a Texaco truck driver ran over and had a cup of coffee and let the thing run, the tank got filled and it starting running down the street. There is obviously some hazard in gasoline and flammable materials and as the thing is currently zoned, in the C-2 where gas stations could be thats where the Master Plan and everybody involved with it figured would be a good place for these materials and where a few people lived. Let them all congregate down there. It strikes me as a funny thing to want to change that. There is definitely some hazard involved in it. Besides all the mess and noise as well as sight to people within sight and sound of the place. It has been brought up about the structures on the sidewalk and the big bargins - wih a 1,000 or something - confronting you on these things. As francis pointed out Main Street would be nice to keep it that way. I just wonder why the current gas stations like Lew are cramped for space, why some of them didn't take the initive and move in the C-2 zone. I noticed a great many people, particularly on a trip vacationing or something, generally have credit cards. I know the few vacations I take I always have one and I generally look up that station because the card happened to be sent to me, they don't charge you interest. I suspect that a great many people particularly the vacation crowd coming here with automobiles have a credit card or 2 or 3 like people do. And I think that no matter where that station is they wouM pretty well chase it down. In the fact that they must be on the highway where they can see them from a mile away, I don't think that would apply at all here in Aspen, being basically not a pass through town. You have to have a pretty good reason to come here to even get here. Particuaarly if they all got lined up down here, contrary to his opinion, I think they were all lined up down there within a stones throw of one another this would invite everyone down there. Possibly the other non-conforming uses could be coaxed down there. In fact I talked to Butch at one meeting here this last winter and suggested since he owned some land down there that he put in a pump down there and see how it would go. I think if you could encourage him in some way to make a start on it. As he pointed out the railroad ground is probably becoming available now for things that there hasn't been up to now. I N? 17 --- - RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves III\D C.F.HOECKELB.B.ftL.CD. Public Hearing, P & Z, 2/25/69, continued. think since we went to the expense on that Master Plan we decided that was the place forthem and I think we should just stick to that and I think if there were 2 or 3 stations down there with ample facilities room to park that would put pressure on the present stations to move down there. Just the competition of better facilities might just coax them all out of there. Robin Molny - An interesting point about the general area is that we are always at a loss as to where to put something bad. I would like somebody, Francis or someone to try and imagine what would happen to the existing gas stations if we did nothing in the immediate future. Either concentrated gas stations down there or else say someplace in the County. Francis Whitaker - The more I look at this problem, I think it is a re- gional area. There is one gas station at Snowmass, there is a possib- ility of one or two at the airport there is also the possibility of a high speed 4 lane highway coming right up to Aspen. I think those uses should be awfully careful about getting them into our already congested traffic area. The traffic between here and Buttermilk is tremendous. Service Stations located off that highway that could be reached. I think we can better locate it on the east end of town. Chairman Heneghan - Is there someone here from a gas company that can tell us why they have not located down there. There must be some economic reason for it. Lew Albright - Traffic patterns and they have taken traffic counts and its to locate witliin that traffic. Sinclair came up and they were kind of interested in moving to this corner where they don't want a statinn and they flat said that they wouldn't move down there. If they can't get on the highway where traffic passes, that is what they want. Butch Clark - In the C-2 there are only 2 available owners myself and the railroad. When the tracks are removed there will probably be several sites for gas stations. Until the tracks are moved, there is probably only a month to month lease. Joan Lane - I would like to ask Francis how Carmel got gas stations off the highway. Francis Whitaker - One was located on Ocean Avenue which is the main traffic through town. As soon as that went in they changed the zoning ordinance to prohibit them on Ocean Avenue. They relegated them to the east of the industrial section and then the planners finally revised to let other gas statins in but not on the main street. Allowed them to become conforming uses, all except that one on Ocean Avenue that is still a non-conforming use. Joan Lane - Apparently there was enough business to convince the gas stations to go down there. Francis Whitaker - They are not located in any particular pattern. Dean Billings - That indicates they could go someplace else. . Francis Whitaker - They did N? 1S --- - RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves 11110 C.F.HOECKELB.B.&L.CO. Public Hearing, 2/25/69, continued. Robin Molny - I would like to point out the 4 gas stations we are talking about presently. Sinclair dosne't want to be there, they want to move. That leaves 3 gas stations. If the hopeful thing happens that a relative 3 or 4 block area should eventually become pedes train, that leaves Conooo, Texaco and Chevron strangled if nothing else happened, if it was just left to go its own way. There is some talk about the first parking facility in the block where Conoco is, so it is almost self solving problem if we do nothing about it. If this area is pedes train Chairman Heneghan - It would be difficult to make it pedestrian with Sinclair in its present location. Robin Molny - Why is that? Chairman Heneghan - You just can't cut off their business. Robin Molny - Thoughts have been given that at certain times closing off the downtown to traffic from time to time. Dean Billings - From where to where? Robin Molny - I don't know but that is a long range general thought. Dean Billings - Who has it besides you? Robin Molny - I think quite a few people, there are no proposals. Mrs. Ware - Now that Leon is here, I would like to know hoW come they picked out our spot period, out of this whole area for gas stations. Chairman Heneghan - Well we aren't really talking about one spot. There was a proposal from Mayor Barnard about those 2 blocks. Can you answer that Mr. Wurl. Administrator Wurl - Well not very well. that we have illustrated on the map there been suggested in a Council meeting or by I could say that the spots are either ones that have someone. Dean Billings - Do you recall who suggested them? Administrator Wurl - No. To go clear back to the time when the C-lA was proposed along Main Street and it was shot down. The Council and myself took a ride in that area, each person said well there is a logical spot and there is one. As to anyone person speaking of a certain spot, I can't do that. This did not officially come up in a meeting, it was just discussion when we were touring around. The reason it is before the P & Z, is becauseCouncil did take some action and as P & Z to look into the matter of gas stations. I don't think in that request was reference to any area. Mrs. Ware - Well according to the newspaper article Chairman Heneghan - There was a suggestion from one of the members that they be placed there, however, apparently we have a letter from the owner of the property that they would not sell it for that purpose. Mrs. Ware - Well I am one.p,f those owners. What I don't understand is N? 19 - -- RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves MIl C.F.HOECKELB.B.& L. CO. Public Hearing, P & Z, 2/25/69, continued. why not ask the people instead of the people coming toyou. Chairman Heneghan - That is what we are here for. Mrs. Ware - I have the signatures of about 5 people who own over 75% of that property and they are against it and the Councilor anyone has not approached them. Francis Whitaker - George, it just seems to me that gas stations on Main Street have been shot down so many times it would not be very political to make a recommendation for them again. I feel myself, that unless we get into a mall situation for the whole downtown area perhaps the Texaco Station is one of those that is located off the main traffic pattern and a reasonabley good location. Again I don't think we should go over what this Master Plan says as long as there is the possibility of a regional planner working for the City and County so that everything is considered. I would just like to emphasize again I don't ~hink Jerry Brown or any of us realized the impact of Snowmass. Joan Lane - As a resident of Pitkin County with 2 automobiles, I feel this winter since there is a full service station in Snowmass, I have not had any problem getting service. - It seems to me that gas stations like to go where there is dense traffic by the same token there is dense traffic where there are stations. It seems to me the long range plan is to take this pedestrian area and make it pedestrian. Some sort of zonig for gas stations, string the stations out along the ski developments and slopes would pull the traffic away from the mall area and put the gas stations where they might be advantageous also. There is not a full service gas station in this town. Dean Billings - It strikes me that the most logical place the 4 lane highway would go is on that side of the river all the way up this canyon, get over there and get a little more sunshine which would help the maintenance of the road. If that is logical then its likely they will come right in here, maybe this will be the en~rance to town when they do that. Chairman Heneghan - That possibility exists. Francis Wllitaker - Jerry Brown studied this alternate route by Aspen very very thoroughly and he found no real solution to routing the highway anyother way than it is now. I think lots of people would like to have it moved, but Jerry Brown could not come up with anything. Butch, are you familiar with the proposals for an industrial section downby the airport. Are you in anyway involved or do you know anything about that. Robin Molny - I know something about that. Francis Whitaker - I just wonder, if that develops down the valley, maybe that location should be considered for gas stations. Robin Molny - Do you know where the Aspen Gas Company is there is a 4 acre~tract down there. United Lumber, LP Gas Company and Rio Grande N? 20 ~ RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS 100 Leaves MIG C.F.HOECKaB.B.lItL.CO. Public Hearing, P & Z, 2/25/69, continued. Motorway proposed an industrial park down there. Also Huebinger and Benedict are proposing an industrial park on the Sam Stapleton property County P & Z tabled these requests because of the fact that Trafton Bean are working on studying this area. - Have you considered that Aspen is so small of not allowing stations in Aspen, maybe locate them a mile or two out of town. Robin Molny - There is one hard fact about that in that east of town is prettyy prime land. Have some traffic coming in from the east side of town. Putting gas stations out in the nice land you might get a lot of objection. Butch Clark - I think it will be a year before the State puts in the 4 lanes into Aspen. Four months ago at that time they did not have a traffic count. Think it will be a year before that develops down there and of course the next question is can we last a year as we are now. Mrs. Ware - When the City drives around looking for a location, why do they drive around and look at an area that may not remain in the City. Chairman Heneghan - Any further comments, (there were none). I'll close the public hearing at this time. Whitaker made a motion that the Planning and Zoning Commission make no recommendation on gas station locations pending further study and the possibility of a regional planner and the studying of locations on a regional basis. Seconded by Molny. Roll call vote - Mars aye; Molny aye; Whitaker aye; Heneghan aye. Whitaker moved to adjourn at 5:55 p.m., seconded by Molny. All in favor, meeting adjourned. (/----~.~~ Lorraine Graves, Secretary N? 21