HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19670816
--
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FOR~ 5~ c. F. HOECKEL B. B. It L. co.
Public Hearing
Aspen Planning & Zoning
August 16, 1967
Public Hearing was called to order at 5:15 p.m. with the following
members present:
Chairman Tom Benton- Presiding
Francis Whitaker
Mayor Robert Barnard
Sam Lum
Donald Copelin
George Heneghan (excused)
Councilman Wm. McEachern (unexcused)
Chairman Benton opened the Public Hearing by reading the notice of
public hearing as published in the Aspen Times as follows:
"Notice is hereby given the City of Aspen Planning and Zoning Commission
will hold a public hearing on August 16, 1967, 5:00 p.m., City Council
Chambers to consider proposed amendments to Title XI- Zoning Ordinance -
concerning parking requirements in the C-l District, parking as relates
to accommodations and dwelling units in the C-l and AR-l Districts and
signs."
Francis Whitaker raised a point of order. Lack of quorum existed when
the motion was made to hold a public hearing on signs and parking
requirements in the C-l District.
Chairman Benton pointed out the reason for the lack of quorum was due to
Mr. Whitaker leaving the meeting before it was adjourned without reason.
Mayor Barnard suggested if a member leaves a meeting early, he should be
considered absent for the entire meeting and after 3 absences taken off
the commission.
Mayor Barnard made a
Hearingas published.
continued.
motion that the Commission proceed with the Public
Seconded by Donald Copelin. All in favor, hearing
Chairman Benton opened the public hearing on signs - maximum size of letters.
Stated the Commission is proposing 12" maximum. Also stated this had
been brought to the Commissions attention by the Building Inspector.
12" size had been in the zoning ordinance before adoption of the new
Title XI.
Jim Gray - Motel Owner - Questioned why the objection to having a one
letter sign.
Chairman Benton - Commission felt this may have been an oversight since it
was in the old ordinance.
Charles Patterson - Motel Owner - Questioned insignias and trademarks in
relation to letters.
Chairman Benton - This would pertain only to cut out letters.
Steen Gantzel - Motel
the attractiveness of
Owner - Limiting letters
signs.
N? ~
to 12" takes away from
-
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FOR'-110 C.F.HOECKELB,B.& L. CD.
Fublic Hearing, P & Z, Aug. 16, continued.
Marvin Reynolds - Building Inspector - Feel 12" letters are legible and
more than enough. ^
Charles Patterson - Motel Owner - Is the space between letters limited.
Chairman Benton - No.
Luke Anthony - Realtor - What cd the lodge owners feel is a good average
size?
Charles Patterson - Motel Owner - Present letters at the Boomerang are 12"
high. Quite satisfied with it but by restricting the size of letters
you lose from the artistic point of view.
Robert Stevens - Realtar
to make all signs alike.
By restricting the size of letters will tend
Steen Gantzel - Motel Owner - Those people without cut out letters will
be allowed more sign than those people with cut out letters. With cut
out letters you are restricting people to 12".
Mayor Barnard - The ordinance would not change the size of the sign.
Francis Whitaker - Not in favor of the 12" size. Capital letters could
be as high as 24".
Rob Roy - Architect - You are getting into the design filed which
is hard to tie down with an ordinance. Suggest a sign committee.
Mayor Barnard - Give capital letters 50% increase in size over the rest of
the letters.
Bill Dunaway - Aspen Times - Feel the limit could be increased to 18".
Barbara Fasching - Leave it the way it is.
Mayor Barnard - Same size on all signs but give 50% to the capital.
Question Jerry Browns feelings as to whether the size of letters should
pertain to flat signs as well as cut out letter signs.
Jerry Brown - Planner - Yes. Do not like to see people going to flat
signs, perfer cut out letter signs, which should be encouraged.
Chairman Benton - Questioned the citizens present if they were in favor
of enforcing signs being removed after a certain period of time if they
were non-conforming.
Comments were in favor.
Public Hearing on signs closed.
Chairman Benton opened the public hearing on off-street parking requirements
for dwellings and acoomodations.
Francis Whitaker - Pointed out the parking requirements under the
ordinance are by use. This does not pertain to anyone district.
proposed 1 parking space per ~h dwelling unit.
.N'o' _ 13
present
Commission
--
,
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM II C.F.HOECKHS.a.llL.CO.
Public Hearing - P & Z, Aug. 16, continued.
C. M. Clark - Developer - Questioned why this was being brought up at this
time since it had been throughtly discussed at previous hearings before
Title XI was adopted.
Chairman Benton - Plans were being submitted to the Planning and Zoning
Commission wh&ch were questionable as to whether they were a lodge,
condominium, apartments etc. Types of buildings were being changed to
fit the requirements for parking.
Charles Patterson - Motel Owner - Seems to be a problem of changing and
clarifying the definition of a unit. Lodging Association recommends
you define a unit as 1 bathroom which has a shower-tub combination, toilet
and sink. This would take care of all accommodations except for rooming
houses and dormitories. If you have a condominium with 4 bedrooms and
2 baths would be considered 2 units. Recommend 2 for 3 remain. Would
even be better to say make one parking space per 2 units for everyone
no matter what it is called.
Mayor Barnard - How can 2 cars park in one space?
Charles Patterson - Not every guest has a car.
Chairman Benton - Survey showed 2 for 3 was an accurate ratio.
Charles Patterson - Will this create a hardship on condominiums.
Steen Gantzel - Motel Owner - This should be cleared up by definition, see
the problem.
Donald Copelin - Do not think this would be a good definition. Condominiums
are very much in the lodge business. This would cause~people to go into
the condominium business instead of the motel business.
Steen Gantzel - Motel Owner - With restrictive parking, if you can't park
on the street, you would have to provide your own parking.
Robert Stevens
space per unit.
1.
- Realtor - For condominiums you have to have 1 parking
During the season all spaces are filled and you need 1 for
C. M.Clark - Developer - Believe for condominiums 2 for 3 is not enough.
Do need 1 for 1. Also the lodge owners need 2 for 3.
Jerry Brown - Planner - Do not think you can do this. Some units are
available at different times of the year on a different basis.
Francis Whitaker - Propose 3 for 4 ratio. This would eliminate the problem
of whether it was a condominium apartment or lodge.
Robert Stevens - Realtor - For a condominium it is not enough parking.
Hans Gramiger - Realtor - Follow through with square footage. Base the
parking on the square footage of the unit.
C. M. Clark - Developer - If a condominium owner does not provide 1 for 1
it will make an economic hardship on the owner.
N? 14
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 10 C.F.HOECKELB.e.llll.CO.
Public Hearing, Aug. 16, P & Z, continued.
Jim Gray - Motel Owner - You are not always full all year around. Most
of the parking problem is in the summer time. Winter time guests mainly
come by bus or plane.
Francis Whitaker - We presently have no parking requirement or definition
of a condominium. Think we should have the same ratio for everything.
Bill Dunaway - Aspen Times - Units should be based on bathrooms.
Donald Copelin - Do not feel the definition should be by bathrooms.
Bill Dunway - You have to provide a bathroom.
Mayor Barnard left on emergency call.
Chairman Benton - Will have to have a definition that is both workable
and legal.
C. M. Clark - Developer - Everyone should realize a condominium is a form
of ownership not a type of use.
Rob Roy - Architect - Definition of a unit should include kitchen in the
definition.
Chairman Benton - No.
Steen Gantzel - Motel Owner - A person who builds should take care of his
own parking problem. Restrictive parking in the entire town, under this
would not have a parking problem.
Francis Whitaker - Can you use bathrooms in a legal definition of a unit,
Jerry Brown.
Jerry Brown - Yes
Francis Whitaker - Can you on a square footage basis.
Jerry Brown - Might encourage small units.
C. M. Clark - Could it be feasible to require 1 for 1 for all units other
than those having only 1 bathroom and 1 bedroom? Units having 1 bedroom
and 1 bath would need 2 parking spaces for every 3 units.
Hans Gramiger - Realtor - Condominium developers do not have to live
with the problem afterit is sold. Need for a minimum.
C. M Clark - Agree there has to be a minimum.
Chairman Benton and Jerry Brown agreed with the proposal by Clark of 2
for 3 and anything over one bedroom and bath 1 for 1.
Robert Stevens - The mortgagee has a problem because your request goes before
a loan committee to see if you have provided parking before getting a loan.
Ruth Burgert - Motel Owner - Stated she has 1 for 1 and cannot restrict
parking becaus of the curb cut.
N?
15
"
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM I! c. F. HOECKEL B. e. II, l. CO.
Public Hearing, P & Z, Aug. 16, continued.
Commission informed Mrs. Burgert this would be a City Council problem/
Public Hearing closed.
Chairman Benton opened the public hearing on no off-street parking
requirement in the business district. Stated this would have to be in
conjunction with the parking facility and restrictive parking would have
to be for the entire district.
Mayor Barnard returned from emergency call.
Rob Roy - Architect - Have not come up with a parking facility solution.
Chairman Benton - Parking will not be abolished until the parking district
is established.
Carl Bergman - Matthew Drug, Owner - Aren't there two ideas on this -
one, a downtown parking facility and two several in outlying areas.
Chairman Benton - The City has been working on anunderground structure
at Wagner Park.
Carl Bergman - Make a compromise - one big facility and others in outlying
areas.
Chairman Benton - Problem in ac~uiring several lots in order to make it
feasible to do this.
Steen Gantzel - Is it true the reason for abolishing the off-street
parking requirement is because it is stiflying the growth of business
in the downtown area and remodeling of present businesses.
Chairman Benton - That is true. Some places in town could not expand
at all because of the parking requirements.
C. M. Clark - #1 what is keeping the City frominstigating the one-way
streets and parking on alternate side s of the streets. Feel it would
be worth a try. #2 Against a central parking area and for several parking
areas. If one man puts in parking and another does not, the man who does
provide parking should not be penalized for the man who does not provide
the parking.
Chairman Benton - One-way streets can beput in after the change in Highway
82 is complete.
Ken Moore - No
Never seen any
we are go ing .
one has talked about planning.
figures to support it. Should
Calls for shopping centers.
Master Plan calls for studies.
look ahead to see where
Chairman Benton - General Plan does not call for shopping areas. Do we
want a shopping center out of town to relieve the parking problem?
Jerry Brown - Plan to go into these studies as soon as my contract is signed.
N? 16
r
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORMSl C.F.HOECKELO.B.illL.CO.
Public Hearing, P & Z, Aug. 16, continued.
Feel a parking structure is the only answer. Taking business out of
town hurts the town.
Jim Gray - Should not consider the tourist area in this, most have provided
parking.
Rob Roy - Wagner Park is presently tied up with the Federal Government
to obtain funds. What is the City doing about other locations.
Steen Gantzel - Should remove the requirements now, but should be tied
into agreement or contract for something in the future.
Francis Whitaker - City received a letter from a consulting firm on this.
Mayor Barnard - They have requested a feasibility study.
Francis Whitaker - Have to have knowledge that the business people will go
for it.
Steen Gantzel - If you want people to do sometfuing should work something
out so people can start now.
Jerry Brown - An idea is to have an attorney draw up a pro~pectus on how
the district would work. Get something set up and get some cost estimates.
Mayor Barnard - Feel the City should just budget for it.
Jerry Brown - As an interim solution, City could lease some of the open
land in town as temporary parking lots.
Mayor Barnard - Will have to go to the business people first. Will they
or will they not agree to pay when the place is built.
Rob Roy - Set up a businessmens comittee to study this.
Mayor Barnard - Pay this firm of Philips, Carter and Reister and find
out the feasibility of it. Have not put up enough money to do it yet.
Should get someone who knows how to do it.
Jerry Brown - A committee could sell it.
Luke Anthony - Do they want the people in the downtown area to pay for
the whole thing. It would benefit the entire community.
Rob Roy - Part of the room tax should be to pay for it.
Jerry Brown - Should have a legal opinion on how it should be paid for and
he best way to finance it.
Mayor Barnard - This firm will do this for us.
Carl Bergman - Would this be based on the square footage of the lot or what.
Francis Whitaker - Do not know.
Mayor Barnard - Special assessment would be easier to sell because of the
personal gain.
N?
17
.
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
100 Leaves
FORM 50 C. F. HOECK~L B. B. II L. CO.
Public Hearing, P & Z, Aug. 16, Continued.
Rob Roy - Need some kine of interim way to handle this for the time being.
Public Hearing closed by Francis Whitaker making a motion to adjourn
at 7:00 p.m. Seconded by Sam Lum. All in favor, meeting adjourned.
~~
orraine Graves,
~~
Secretary
N?
1S
""