HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.council.20181210Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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CITIZEN COMMENTS ............................................................................................................................... 2
CITY COUNCIL COMMENTS ................................................................................................................... 2
CONSENT CALENDAR ............................................................................................................................. 2
Resolution #149, Series of 2018 – Debt Issuance for Purposes of Funding Construction for New City
Municipal Office Building ............................................................................................................................ 8
Resolution #151, Series of 2018 – Wheeler Marketing & PR Service Contract .................................. 8
Resolution #152, Series of 2018 – King Street Infrastructure Improvements ...................................... 8
Resolution #145, Series of 2018 – 2018 Mill Levies ............................................................................ 8
Resolution #153, Series of 2018 – SHIFT Partnership Agreement ...................................................... 8
Minutes – December 3, 2018 ................................................................................................................ 8
................................................................................................................................................................... 8
ORDINANCE #38 SERIES OF 2018 – Lift One Lodge – Major Amendment and ..................................... 8
ORDINANCE #39, SERIES OF 2016 – Gorsuch Haus – Planned Development ........................................ 8
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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At 5:00 p.m. Mayor Skadron called the regular meeting to order with Councilmembers Frisch, Myrin,
Mullins and Hauenstein present.
CITIZEN COMMENTS
1. Ruth Harrison said the Streets Department needs to plow the alleys. It is really bad behind the
fountain. The blinkers on main, the lights keep changing. She doesn’t see anything being done
with the parents taking their kids to and from school. There is a tremendous amount of traffic in
the round a bout because of it. Not sure how it fits in with the mobility lab.
2. Peter Fornell said regarding the affordable housing certificate program, we are in jeopardy of the
program turning into something no one will want to participate in. One thousand dollars in
affordable housing generates $300 in property taxes a year. We need the commercial core to be
the contributor to help the entire community, not for housing. If we tell a developer to build units
and sell the certificates, then I don’t know what my role is. HPCs job is to review what the box
looks like not what goes in the box. That decision should be made by council. If we tell a
developer they have to mitigate on the site we will lose faith in the certificate program. If
something isn’t done to support the program we won’t see anything built out of it.
3. Lee Mulcahy stated his constitutional rights have been violated. On July 17th the first notice of
violation was sent. He said the compliance letter was sent on August 25th, prior to the 60 days
required.
4. Paul Kennedy said he lives in Burlingame and is a friend of Lee. Lee is a good man.
CITY COUNCIL COMMENTS
Councilwoman Mullins wished everyone happy holidays and a great season to everyone. She went to
Denver to work with CML. They are trying to get a bill passed with the CO house to increase funding on
affordable housing.
Councilman Myrin thanked everyone for their public comment. It is our community comments that make
us unique. The issues that were raised are very real. School driving has been going on forever and we
haven’t put our foot down. Peter’s issue, we have the opportunity to lose a significant amount of housing
because of our process and our code.
Councilman Frisch said best wishes. As much as I feel proud when I’m going up or down the mountain
or spending time at the institute. Over the last week between attending Klug’s summit, the AEF
fundraiser, Aspen Chapel art opening, I don’t think I’ve ever had a more connected with the community
10 days. It’s great and humble to live here. Happy holidays.
Councilman Hauenstein wished everyone happy holidays. Thanks for your comments. I always
encourage people to make their thoughts known. As a town and a council, we are facing some important
issues for the future.
Mayor Skadron said happy holidays and be safe out there. Don’t forget why you live here.
CONSENT CALENDAR
Resolution 152 – King St improvements
Councilwoman Mullins asked has the location of the sidewalk been determined. Mike Horvath,
engineering, replied no. There is a work session on January 8th with council to discuss that with the
neighborhood. Councilwoman Mullins said we will be hearing from the public then. The construction
won’t be affected by that decision. Mr. Horvath replied no.
Resolution 153 - SHIFT
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Ashley Perl, environmental health, stated this is a contract with Lyft to deliver Shift. The plan is to run
this for next summer. The contract provides three things. It is a testing ground for some concepts from
the community transportation forum. The goal is to get the community out of their cars with more
mobility options and to understand what services will work in Aspen in the future. This contract is with
Lyft and includes a not to exceed of $800,000. It is in the current budget for 2019 and is under the
original estimate. It also includes a mobile application, outreach and marketing, electric bikes, electric
scooters, mini-busses and shared rides. The City is paying for the mini busses and shared rides. We are
excited the partnership includes the in kind app. A lot of the money is being passed through Lyft to the
local community. We need to sign the contract so they can contract with local providers and drivers.
Electric bikes and scooters are controlled through the contract and a city ordinance. The contract and
ordinance will regulate them. This is not subsidized by the city. The user will pay to unlock the device
then a per minute charge. Lyft will charge a penalty for trips over 30 minutes. You can reserve and pay
for the device using the app. They are not permitted on sidewalks and malls. The scooter test can be
ended at any time. Shared rides and passenger vehicles will be driven by Lyft drivers. The will use
passenger lanes not bus lanes. You will hail a ride using the app. Lyft will set the fare to the user. The
service area is to be determined but not to the airport. Mini busses would originate from the intercept lot.
They can use the bus lane. They will be free to the user and allow dogs. The service area is also to be
determined. There have been three big outreach efforts. We talked to over 600 people throughout the
valley. Traffic goes against quality of life. The general consensus is people would like the city to do
something about it. We met with the bike shops. The City is willing to subsidize a one day demo for E
bikes. We asked them what they thought of dockless E bikes. The reply was they don’t hurt our
business. The final outreach was to taxi and shuttle businesses. We would like to meet with these
companies in the coming weeks and put out an RFP for a possible late night shuttle service. We are in
conversations with the school about continuing Shift in to the school year.
Mayor Skadron said he was at city hall yesterday going through emails. My reply was the Shift program
is simply a 90 day experiment to try an integrated mobility system. It is the result of a year and a half
community meeting that will include multiple mobility means. It would be irresponsible for us not to try.
Councilman Myrin said he read that Lyft has the contract. Was there a reach out to the bike shops. Ms.
Perl said the bike shops, we have not reached out to since Lyft came on board. The meeting since the
local shuttles was scheduled so they heard about it prior. Councilman Myrin asked is there any reason
this has to happen tonight. Ms. Perl replied if we postpone this to late January or February we cannot
deliver Shift on time for next summer. Lyft can’t reach out to local providers until they know we are in a
contract with them. We are up against a pretty tight time line. Councilman Myrin said on page 87 it
mentions the possibility of discouraging use of longer than 30 minutes with a fee increase but there is
nothing binding. Can we do the same thing we’ve done with we cycle. Ms. Perl said we have a
confirmation that they will charge a penalty but we want it higher than the we cycle penalty.
Mayor Skadron opened the public comment.
1. Luke Wampler, Aspen Valley Bike Shop, said he has the same concerns as Councilman Myrin’s.
Lyft plans on charging a $1 set up fee and then a per minute charge. Without a more cemented
penalty they could very easily under cut the businesses in this town. Councilman Frisch replied
$9 an hour. Luke said $60 for 2 hours for E bikes. Councilman Frisch said there is discussion of
some type of penalty. Is there a hurdle to not try to cause we cycle or is it market rate. Ms. Perl
said we suggested a penalty of what the rental price is so people would be encouraged to rent a
bike. We are discussing not just a penalty but a slowing of the device. Luke said we want to
make sure if the contract is signed we are not locked in to that price.
2. Billy Taylor, Aspen E Bikes, said before a contract is signed all these little points should be in it.
We’ve had 2 work sessions with the city. There were boundary protections saying they could not
go up to the Bells and I don’t see that in here. It is not fair to the bike shops. The 90 days is our
season. Ms. Perl said the contract lays out the high level. We would need to come back to
council with an addendum. We would not release any money until we have those details. Billy
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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said it seems like you are rushing in to things to get things signed and that is not fair to the bike
shops. Ms. Perl replied we want to support the bike shops above everybody else.
3. Charlie Tarver said Aspen is one of the most bike friendly bike communities in the world. Why
would you be in the bike business.
4. Eden Vardy said he is very sensitive to what the bike shops are saying. He thinks Shift is a
wonderful thing. It shares our community ethos. Keep the big picture in mind. It is a 3 month
trial. A lot of the details can be ironed out. What is the most sustainable option for the long term
for our town and citizens.
5. Whitney Justice said she would like help with the kids driving to school. The school gives the
kids a parking pass when they are a senior. I can’t compete with that pass. What can we do
better as a community. Scooters are dangerous.
6. Rick Galley said this is an expensive solution looking for a problem to solve. He has not seen a
traffic problem definition. 30 to 40 minute traffic back up and a parking lack. The solution is to
limit construction as a trial. Survey residents as to what upsets them, who they are to evaluate
options.
7. Ed Garland, Aspen Bikes partner, said he is concerned that the contract has a price structure of $9
per hour. What leverage does the city have to negotiate. It is their advantage to have longer
rentals. We have been able to coexist with we cycle with their penalty system. He would rather
have concerns in writing now. Jim True, city attorney, said if people are concerned with the
provision in 7.3, and you want to make it definitive you can make it as a provision of approval at
this point. Councilman Frisch said we are wordsmithing this in the middle of the consent. Is this
what we need to do to make this work.
8. Dan Perl, teacher at high school, said he lives here for the high quality of work. One of the most
important things is leaving his car at home. He supports council for taking some bold strokes and
supporting this issue. Shift represents the way that people want to get around. The transit
solutions we have are phenomenal.
9. Wendel Whiting said the community is often driven by a few people with loud voices. He
appreciates the Shift project. It is a good opportunity to see what works. It will generate a lot of
data that local businesses could use to their advantage.
10. Charlie Gardner, High Mountain Taxi, said we are at this point due to the lack of outreach by city
staff. First, we had the downtowner, then the expansion of the downtowner, now it is the
downtowner on steroids. If you were looking for subcontractors it should have been stated to
begin with. The more you take the harder it is to survive. The goal post keeps changing.
11. Roberto Ramira, said the goal is to reduce traffic. Who is bringing all the traffic. This is a tourist
town. You should consider the community first instead of a big corporation.
12. Charlie Bantis said have you considered if the E bikes take off contracting directly with the bike
shops.
13. Mirte Mallory, we cycle, said they launched in 2013 to reduce traffic as an alternate mode of
travel. We aligned with the goals of Shift. We are a public private partnership. She applauds the
city for a bold vision of the Shift initiative. We are committed to the same objectives. She
supports using one platform. While the contract represents ambition, it lacks detail for
collaborative implementation. It creates a framework for services. We cycle asks council to
delay signing of the contract until partners can provide input. We are here to partner and have
open discussion prior to signing a contract. We need time and a public forum to do so.
14. John Sarpa is here to talk about the community forum. It concluded there are quite a few things
that need to happen at the same time. When something this major comes along you have to find a
way for balance. He encouraged council to take a little more time. Signing the contract with all
these blanks doesn’t come across the way it should.
15. Kelly Murphy said the intercept lot needs to be connected with the bike path before this happens.
Bike racks need to be on all busses.
16. Paul Williams, Aspen Bike partner, said as a bike community we are not against bike sharing. It
has to be done correctly. The details need to be worked out for it to work properly and with us.
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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Geofencing can work for the E bikes. The price structure needs to be looked at. We cycle has
worked with us.
17. Stacy Rothenberg, limousine provider, said they haven’t heard about what will happen after the
90 days. Once Lyft is here they are here. Ms. Perl stated after 90 days the city will not support
Lyft being here.
18. Ann hockey, Aspen Limo Service, said the biggest problem is the commuters. Lyft will become
your preferred provider because they are your partner. She asked council to delay the vote on
this.
19. Kevin Smitty, Smitty Limo, said what is there to stop my neighbor from contacting Lyft and
saying I want to be a driver. What is there to stop them from going to the airport.
20. Kit Mclynden, limo and bike outfitter service, said he is the middleman to outfitter and bike
services. We need more time before making a decision like this. There is also a safety issue here.
21. Skippy Mesirow said he doubts any of us live here for the worst parts of living in a big city.
Anything we can do to move to an automobile less future are good. Glad you are trying
something. Be brave, bold and stay the course. We have a ton of wonderful local businesses.
Reach out and come to a better solution.
22. Virka Ramira, limo service, said we never heard of this. She does not see a reason why we
should do this. We are here because we want to experience small town life.
23. Eddie asked what are the conditions to cancel after 3 months. Mr. True said the contract is only
for 3 months.
24. Lee Mulcahy said to look at the study by MIT.
25. John Gally, limo company owner said he is against subsidizing a company we are competing
against fair and square. Uber and Lyft don’t have a path to profitability here. I wish the money
would be spent with local companies. The outreach was not effective. If the details are not in the
contract they don’t matter.
26. Tom Coggins said all of us transportation operations are regulated by the state. We all need to be
safe and be able to make a living. Maybe the city has jumped the gun instead of dealing with it
locally.
Ms. Perl suggested removing the shared ride piece of the contract. She is not sure what a work session
gets us.
Councilwoman Mullins said she does not think that is what we should do here tonight. It is along the
same lines of wordsmithing. She would like to hear the rest of the comments and act on what is before
us.
27. Mick Ireland said what we are doing right now is not working. Demand transportation is not new
to Aspen. E bikes will expose people to something that is not competitive in the bike shops.
Maybe they will then go in to the bike shops. A graduated tax for use over half an hour might do
the trick.
28. Michelle, elite transportation, said you haven’t done enough homework on the ground
transportation side. Lyft is 180% more traffic on the roads. Lyft isn’t cyclical here. Ride hailing
has decimated taxi’s across the US.
29. Kevin Cordova, limo service, said it seems like the contract is not ready. It needs more
refinement.
30. Mike Maple said the most disturbing thing is the city process doesn’t engage the community early
enough in the process. The process doesn’t work. It is very clear this is being rushed. Where are
all the scooters and E bikes going to go.
Mayor Skadron closed the public comment.
Councilman Hauenstein said when I saw this all the public comment covered my objections. I don’t like
signing a contract where there are blank spaces. It is important we nail this down. I question the
wisdom of E scooters. I share the same concerns. I want Shift to be for transportation not recreation. I
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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served on the forum on mobility and transportation and learned a lot. Shift is necessary to try. All the
pieces except the scooters have real possibilities to reduce traffic in the downtown. The key is to utilize
the intercept lot. If it can’t reduce traffic I don’t want to deal with it. We need more time spent on this.
My first thought was we need to table this. I agree with what you all have been saying. I fully support
the different aspects of this. The ride sharing has received some bad press. It does accomplish our
goals. Ride hailing, taxi services are nothing more than an analog ride hailing service. Ride hailing
increases traffic but ride sharing decreases it. Lyft is more than ride hailing and sharing. It incorporates
what we were going to have multiple vendors do. I have a fond place in my heart for the bike shops in
town. I want hard penalties in there so it is a disincentive for Lyft to come in and undermine our local
shops. I can’t sign a blank contract with so much left undetermined. We need a workshop with the
partners. I know this has been going on for a year and a half. We need to have it defined. Too much is
undefined to vote yes this evening.
Councilman Frisch said I want to talk about goals and process. For the last 40 years we have been
focusing on the supply of roads to fix traffic in Aspen. It is important that we signed up to take on this
goal. All the people that spoke in favor of progressive transportation and community values, are spot on.
The process has been troublesome to me to say the least. I shared some concerns in December of 2017 as
to how we were going to pull this off in 2018. Lots of public comments from me and others. The whole
thing has been focused on we need more outreach. This is the discussion we should have had in the first
month. What might be 90 days for city hall might be the last 90 days for boots on the ground for some
of our transportation workers. I think this process from early days has highlighted my prior stated
comments concerning the disconnect from city hall on truly how hard it is to run a small business in
town. Two few of us have had to make a pay roll, let alone in this town. The lack of humility from city
hall continues to worry me when it comes to the business. I’ve heard in this building on a few occasions
about old school transportation companies who need to get on board with the future. I find it a bit
unsettling that some people assume an industry is dying and we need to step in to turbo charge the
assumed inevitability. As I’ve said before, city hall has no to very little idea what it takes to be in the
transportation business. We should have reached out on day one saying we have mobility demands and
millions of mobility dollars. The focus on future data collection is great. We have people with years of
data. We have not reached out once for their feedback on ideas, what’s wrong or missing or how can we
get them involved. The downtowner has been going on for some time in the hopes of being a ride share
program. 70 to 80 % of rides are single point to point. It comes down to an issue of density. We do not
have a dense community. If we increase our ride service there is a view the probability of car pooling
will go up. My view is we will have less density and I don’t know how we will get car sharing. I spent a
year and a half sharing my concerns. I would love to try to see the goals of the Mayor and those we all
bought in to be realized.
Councilman Myrin said the process of announcing the contract less than a week of putting it on the
consent agenda is the wrong way to go. I will not support this. It is a process thing for me.
Councilwoman Mullins said I’ve been a really strong supporter of Shift and what came before it. There
have been years of work starting with the transportation forum and gathering data for what we can
possibly do to address the issue with congestion. We do have a problem with the congestion in town.
Shift is an attempt to work on that. We can’t just drop it and hope things fix itself. There are a lot of
elements that are logical. Maybe it answers the questions about the S curves finally. There are
significant environmental benefits. There are a lot of values to doing a program like this. Aspen prides
itself on innovative programs. We have this history of pushing the envelope and finding solutions to
clear obvious problems. We can’t keep guessing on what works or doesn’t work. I have never heard so
much push back on one initiative. Part of my job is to collect research and listen to staff but the other
part is to represent the people who elected me. I certainly cannot support approving the contract tonight.
I would like to continue to work on it. There has been quite a bit of outreach but clearly not enough. We
need to keep working with our transportation providers. We need to get support for the program if we
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want to go ahead with it. If we don’t have the community support, it won’t be successful. We need to
get as many specifics as we can.
Councilman Frisch said one question is, is today the go no go with Lyft for 2019. I’m not sure what you
need from us. Ms. Perl said she hesitates to come back for a work session where anything different
comes out of it. What I heard tonight is the majority of the pushback is on the shared rides. We can
negotiate a contract that eliminates the shared rides and move forward with some type of Lyft and see if
the community can deliver a shared ride piece. I think it is local companies provide the shared rides or it
is removed from the contract. I’m not sure where we go. Councilwoman Mullins asked what do you
mean by shared rides. Ms. Perl replied I’ve heard much more pushback from shared rides with Lyft.
Councilman Hauenstein said I think the shared rides have real value. I think ride hailing is in direct
competition with the taxi service. Ride sharing eliminates congestion by cutting down traffic. Ms. Perl
said in this particular agreement ride sharing and ride hailing are the same thing. Councilman Frisch
said there needs to be some minimal level of services to say we have a summer program. Getting people
to turn left at the intercept lot and hop on a point to point bus is worth a try. He is not sure if micro
transits and bikes are enough to make a go of it.
Mayor Skadron said we are all worried about change and the future. It is coming here whether we like it
or not. Shift gives us a snapshot of what it looks like or not. If we have a meeting in January it should
be focused on what additional services can be provided by local services. This wasn’t about bringing
Lyft here. This is a 3 month experience about how we move in and around Aspen. My hope has been
how we move people without relying on vehicles. My challenge to you as the transportation sector is to
understand the principles behind this. It is not about bringing in competition. We have a serious
problem and we need serious people to fix this problem. It is about maintaining our quality of life and
not defaulting to the status quo. All I’ve done and the council has done to this point is compare the
community we are today against the one we claim to want to be. If you are satisfied with traffic and
congestion at the entrance to Aspen, that is wholly antithetical to the entire notion of this place, then
fight this program. Don’t work with us. Because that is what you are going to get, more traffic. The
program as we know, is these new transportation things working together in a compressive app that
makes it easier for users to make smarter decisions about their commutes and errands. We hope that we
would revitalize the core with some pedestrian zones and public spaces. Our goal was to bring forward
thinking options. The outcome of a successful experiment, in my opinion, was a people first downtown
that aligned with an environmentally sustainable and socially equitable stronger community. That is the
place we want to live in but that is not what we are. We are suffering under the weight of our own
popularity. I’ve always argued we want the people in town, just not the cars. The lab has the
opportunity to provide to the community essential information not just to Aspen but the entire region.
The only other option is to build four lanes over the open space. If you are really interested in
addressing the status quo and really believe in a community that wants to be better and believe in the
promise of this place then get involve and do something. You have raised some legitimate concerns and
it gives council some real angst to move forward with the contract. The consensus is this will not be
supported to move forward tonight. I am also hearing there is general support to move forward with the
program that addresses the issues we all feel are a challenge to Aspen’s quality of life. The next step is
to see how we can bring in our local providers.
Councilman Frisch said he is not sure what types of meetings we are looking for. Ms. Perl said she
recommends amending the contract for the other pieces at the same time as working on the other
conversation. Councilwoman Mullins said that is a good approach. Take out the one piece and let us
know how effective that will be. It is really important that everyone here puts forth your ideas.
Councilman Frisch said he is not opposed to seeing the micro transit come back. The bikes and scooters
won’t take a lot of time. The ride share is the substance. Ms. Perl said she will speak with Lyft and see
if they have an option for us. In the mean time we will look at schedules to see if there is a local option.
Councilman Hauenstein said he would really value a round table discussion with the transportation
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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people. Mayor Skadron asked if there is support to pull Resolution #153 from the consent agenda.
Council agreed to support adopting the consent agenda without Resolution #153.
• Resolution #149, Series of 2018 – Debt Issuance for Purposes of Funding Construction
for New City Municipal Office Building
• Resolution #151, Series of 2018 – Wheeler Marketing & PR Service Contract
• Resolution #152, Series of 2018 – King Street Infrastructure Improvements
• Resolution #145, Series of 2018 – 2018 Mill Levies
• Resolution #153, Series of 2018 – SHIFT Partnership Agreement
• Minutes – December 3, 2018
Councilman Hauenstein moved to adopt the consent calendar without Resolution #153; seconded by
Councilman Frisch. All in favor, motion carried.
ORDINANCE #38 SERIES OF 2018 – Lift One Lodge – Major Amendment and
ORDINANCE #39, SERIES OF 2016 – Gorsuch Haus – Planned Development
Jessica Garrow, community development, said this is the fourth public hearing for this project. We are
requesting direction on cost sharing. We are also requesting a continuance to January 7th for a special
meeting.
Mayor Skadron opened the public comment.
1. John Doyle said he has rented or owned a cabin on back of Aspen mountain since 1988. Where
will the scaffolding go for world cup if the lodge is there. He doesn’t see how this whole project
can be boiled down to one ballot question. The rezoning should be settled first. Slow the project
down. When the city manager warns against cost sharing it is time to listen.
2. Erik Skarvan said he is agreeable with a new lift and appropriate development. Lift One Lodge is
still towering and Gorsuch is still stretching to the sky. Lack of addressing a core community
value and making our built environment in line with our environment. We are not housing the
people to provide the services. Lack of affordable housing does not respect our number one
community goal. Not one dollar of public money should go towards this development.
3. Luke Van Arsdale, representing Robert Shearer, said over the last several meetings the developer
has entered on the record they have been working with my client on the scale and mass. They
will not be entering a statement today. The east building profile approved in 2011 did not extend
over the Gilbert Street corridor. Today the profile extends impeding my clients view. This does
not need to happen. We object to that. We request as part of the ordinance, section 14, which
addresses the amended plat, be amended to address the Gilbert Street view plane issue.
4. Alex Biel said he is enthusiastic about a lot of the changes to the 1A corridor. The mountain
shouldn’t become a slab of concrete. The conservation zone should be respected. Imagine all the
changes without Gorsuch Haus. I think there will be a new lift at some point.
5. Denis Murray said he participated in two Co-ops for this parcel. This development lacks the
resort/community overlap. This is a once in a lifetime development. Affordable housing is a
once in a life time obligation that should be on the table. The ability for net zero building is
available. Put the E back on Dean Street. It’s history and important. Highlands is ripe for world
cup. Maybe that is where it should go. Don’t let your decision be about money, it’s about Aspen
and what we can be. This is a small hotel in Vail but giant here. I look forward to a vote.
6. Casey Martin, Aspen Mountain townhomes, said they sent a letter about capacity and safety
issues related to Gilbert Street. They would like a retractable bollard system. It would keep
Gilbert Street clear for pedestrians, bikes and emergency vehicles. Open two way traffic can’t be
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accommodated there. More likely an emergency access issue if there was two way access on the
street.
7. Mike Maple said Aspen is based upon ski racing and the world championships of the 50’s. There
is amazing community interest in bringing the lift down the hill. The lift will not move unless
there is an economic engine to let that happen. Real estate development is really hard and risky.
This project is worthy of our community support. The city should pay for the park. The city
owns the historic lift and it their responsibility to maintain it. The city owns Dean Street and
should maintain it. The only contribution I would not support are to the underground parking
facility. The museum went to a vote once before and the community supported it. Recognize
what is being asked for are already community obligations. The world cup will not come back
without a new lift.
8. Chino Martinez, member of the ski school, said Aspen is one of the best ski areas in the world. I
use the mountain as a tool to support my family. World cup will not come here unless we do
something. We are getting behind the world. Clients won’t come back unless we develop the
mountain.
9. David Guthrie said ski racing is our birthright. The world cup has people clamoring to get their
events. At what point do we decide to get real. The return is not always tangible.
10. Scott Ledeau, Betteridge jewelry, said he is thrilled with the lift one corridor. It is intelligent and
forward thinking. It is a great opportunity for growth for his business. There is potential for
world cup to come back.
11. Bill Tomcich said there were 55 properties listed in 96/97 ski season. Only 20 are still here today
under the same name. 12 are gone. We have a ski town heritage that is deeply rooted in ski
heritage. This is an opportunity to go a long way to filing this void.
Mayor Skadron closed the public comment.
Ben Anderson, community development, said the issues that have a majority of council support include
general site planning and lift corridor, proposed uses on city parks, lot reconfiguration, height, massing
and scale for both projects, subdivision and rezoning of Gorsuch Haus. Affordable Housing mitigation,
we acknowledge the code that gives reductions. Project phasing, impact of Lift One operations. Winter
maintenance of S Aspen Street and defer and evaluate.
For the cost sharing proposal, the central question is does council support direct financial contributions
from the City of Aspen to the project outcomes. Does council support the use of project development
fees to be used on public facing aspects for the project. If yes, what.
Dean Street improvements
The estimated total project cost is 1.2 million. The proposed city contribution is $760,000. The Skiers
Chalet lodge is 5.6 million with 3.2 million from the city.
Winter street maintenance is a separate process that will be addressed in distinct sections of the ordinance.
Lift One Lodge will be responsible for any actual costs beyond the estimates. Improvements to parks
including Deans Street plaza, bathrooms and future development of Dolinsek gardens will be included in
the parks capital budget.
Possible options include no contribution. Contribute to cost sharing proposal of 1.36 million amount and
revenue source. Contribute 4.36 amount only. Contribute to Dean Street. Contribute to a fixed amount
the developers put forward.
If an agreement is reached, we will draft an ordinance in response. The city attorney will draft ballot
language.
Michael Brown, owner, said both Gorsuch and his family are local families. He appreciates all the
comments. We were hoping to redevelop the Mountain House lodge. We couldn’t because of the lodge
incentive plan that was taken away. Just because Erik pounded his fist doesn’t make what he said true.
To pretend that the request for housing is 35% mitigation. These projects generate well over 100%
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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mitigation in terms of tax revenue. At what point is it too much. To suggest that the first payment at
building permit pick is the only payment is just false. We have a funding mechanism for 100%
affordable housing and it is the transfer tax and the percentage of the sales tax that generates the ongoing
money to more than exceed those affordable housing numbers. It is a bit unfair to strictly look at. We
support the suggestion for the retractable bollards.
Stan Clauson, representing Lift One Lodge, said P&Z did not have serious concerns. What they had was
serious enthusiasm and voted 7 to 0. This development is less than the allowable FAR for this zone
district. Related to the proposed funding mechanisms, he said benefits for historic properties have been
provided in the land use code for some time. Continued protection of the resource is the basic premise
supporting the creation of an innovative package of preservation tools that are unlike any other in the
country. They include waiver of impact fees, community initiated development and public/privately
funded rehabilitation efforts. The code is full of opportunities for the City to participate in historic
preservation. The steakhouse and the gantry are designated historic resources. The skier chalet building
is not. It is part of the Aspenmodern listing of potential resources. For any potential resource the City
and property owner may negotiate to reach a mutually acceptable agreement for the designation of the
property. The ski museum could reside along with skier services in a building that would cost much less
to build and develop. The relocation of the skier chalet is a very expensive proposition. Of all the issues,
funding for the skier chalet building is of most concern for the council. The code provides a clear
direction that funding for this kind of preservation is perfectly in line with the code.
Mr. Brown spoke about the tax generation from the project. Includes use, real estate transfer, lodging and
property taxes. Based off of 2017 mill levy and RFTA mill levy. The total tax generated over a 30 year
period is 147.4 million dollars. Of that, 35.7 million is affordable housing or 150 FTEs. City of Aspen
general fund, 7.1 million dollars. Open space and parks is 6.1 million dollars. Local transit is 10.7
million dollars. Gorsuch would be in addition to these numbers.
Mayor Skadron said John asked where would the world cup finish, why one ballot question and why the
rushed timeline.
Mr. Clauson said the world cup finish is pretty much where it has been in previous years. With respect to
a rushed process, we have had numerous work sessions with multiple boards and commissions. There is
still is a process moving forward. Mr. Brown said we hosted 6 open houses. Mayor Skadron said if the
community number one goal or value above all else is preservation of character, mass and scale, and this
is 300,000 square feet of development and has affordable housing that meets code but is far under 100 %.
You are juxtaposing that with dollars and asking council to put aside those values. Mr. Brown said he
appreciates that question. In respect to massing, it is still a wide open view plane. I understand the
concern.
Steve Barwick, city manager, asked for the calculations. Mr. Brown said every time a property sells there
is a 1% transfer tax that goes in to the coffers. We’ve estimated this generates 36 million into that fund.
Once every 7 years is the typical time period in which a unit sells. Mr. Barwick said with more people
and more time come more demands on new net. We would like to know your calculations and so would
the people voting on this. Mr. Brown said we would be happy to provide that to the public. Mayor
Skadron asked for a comment on the east building mass and scale objection. Mr. Brown said with respect
to the eastern building, it is a private matter we’ve been discussing with them. It meets code. We have
been trying to value their view planes. Mayor Skadron said we want to be equally sensitive to the
community. Mr. Brown said we support the idea of bollards. We are happy to support what they have
suggested. We think it is a descent solution. Trish Aragon, city engineer, said we are not supportive of
the permanent bollard system, privatizing the street and emergency services. The below ground street is
just as important as above ground. Ms. Garrow said at this point there is not direction on bollards.
Typically, this would be addressed at final review. To find a solution that engineering, fire and the
neighbors can agree on. Councilman Myrin said the other bollards in town, why can’t we duplicate those.
Ms. Aragon said those aren’t what they are suggesting. Gilbert is meant for vehicle traffic, Dean Street is
not. They are different issues.
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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Councilman Frisch asked what are you expecting to get out of tonight’s meeting. Mr. Anderson replied if
we can get alignment tonight we can come back with firm ordinance language on the 7th. Ms. Garrow
said we think we have majority on the other topics.
Mr. Anderson said there were statements from some councilmembers of varying degrees of support for
the cost sharing proposal. From your comments these five options were things that we came up with to
try to represent that discussion. Councilman Frisch said no contribution is Dean Street and the assumed
cost. The cost to retrofit the skier chalet is not to cover the over. Mr. Anderson said as we’ve looked at
the proposal it boils down to these two requests, Dean Street improvements with an estimate of 1.2
million dollars. There are some contributions from Lift One Lodge and Dancing Bear. The City is being
asked for 760,000 dollars. Councilman Frisch asked who covers the overage. Mr. Anderson said there
have been representations that any overages for Lift One would cover those. Mr. Clauson replied that is
correct. Mr. Brown said option five, if easier, rather than funding to the museum the city could contribute
to public infrastructure. The money would only get contributed once the lift is built. We put it in and
after it is in we get paid back for it. You get the lift you bargained for. Councilman Frisch said when it
comes to the skier chalet, there are unknown costs, the assumption was the applicant is asking for the city
to pay 80 percent of the assumed costs. Ms. Garrow replied it was 80 percent of the development fees.
There is a commitment of 1 million from Lift One Lodge, 1 million from Gorsuch, 3.6 million from the
City and any overage would be paid by the applicant. Mr. Brown said the idea is not to give the city open
ended commitments. Councilman Frisch said the assumption of what staff is thinking what should be
final review, the bollards, managing Gilbert as well as the snow melt discussion is you are suggesting
they get handled at a later review process. Ms. Garrow said we feel we have clarity on snow melt. There
is a lot of new infrastructure on S. Aspen Street. See how it goes, do a traffic study and additional studies
then come back for a later discussion. That would be resolved in the ordinance. There was not unanimity
on is snow melt the right answer. It was let’s come back and talk about it once we see how the street
operates. Councilman Frisch said there are minimally five options. The applicant just offered a sixth
with tying it to delivery of the lift. I think number one came from the Mayor. Councilwoman Mullins
said your last suggestion is really important that the money not be contributed until the lift is done. If you
could amend three to include that. It is no secret that I support the city being a partner in this. This is
going to be an enormous community benefit in the end and we talk about the 30 year vision at the end of
the council agenda. This is a 30 year vision. Whether it is the ski racing coming back, the lodging that
we need or the historic resources. 30 years from now people will thank us for having done this.
Councilman Hauenstein said it is a larger discussion than just the cost sharing. It has been said for years
keep Aspen, Aspen. What does that really mean. To me Aspen was a leader in the ski industry. We had
the world championships here for the first time in the United States. We had the longest and most
advanced ski lifts. We have been a leader environmentally and with work force housing. To keep Aspen,
Aspen we have to continue to be a leader in those areas. There are a number of aspects we need to have
to make this work, one is the ski museum another is work force housing. The code has incentives for
density for lodges. If the full ask is given it goes from 114 to 67. It is about an 11 million dollar
concession. I understand when Michael says you will generate money to house people over 30 years but
in the short term there will be impacts. It is also important we have safe streets. I think it is our
responsibility to deliver a safe corridor both on Dean and S Aspen. There are multiple examples of
public/private partnerships. A role of government is to ensure the economic sustainability of the town. If
we are going to commit money to reduce traffic through a mobility experiment that will last for 3 months
then we should commit money to a project that is going to benefit the town for at least 30 years. I support
public dollars to help get this done. I don’t want to get in to how much money we are going to take from
each fee or fund. I would rather see some version of number 5 with Michael’s number 6, it is delivered
when the lift is delivered. I like that. I had penciled in 4 million dollars. I want this to succeed. I want
the whole town to benefit from this for 30 years. I think we owe it to the community to send it to a vote.
Councilman Myrin said 7.8 from the city managers memo and 11 million from the housing is a lot of
money. I can’t support the 11 on the housing side. On the 7.8, if we can buy a lift for that let’s buy a lift
and nothing more. Gorsuch seems like it is right where the staging was for the world cup races. It seems
like there were consequences threatened by the developer which were locating housing on site if there
wasn’t a contribution from the city. Maybe there is some advantage to that. I want to avoid what
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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happened in Snowmass. I suggested the first day the property tax district to pay back anything that is
waived. Mayor Skadron said your general notion is the improvement district that would help fund the
city contributions. Councilman Myrin said it wouldn’t come in to effect until after any of this is built.
Councilman Frisch said over the 4.36 million dollars you want to revisit the housing discussion. Mr.
Brown said in respect to the employee housing it is false to say it is a waiver of fee if those employe es are
not generated and it is subject to an audit. You are saying if the employees are not generated we still want
the money. Councilman Myrin said he thinks some of these deductions were designed for smaller
projects like the Mountain House Lodge or Chalet Lisel not for what is being considered here. Mr.
Brown said the employee generation review was not specific to a particular lodge. If you don’t like it is
unfair.
Mayor Skadron said he believes the city has already contributed above and beyond. Councilman Frisch
said he is open to have some type of discussion on Dean Street. He does not see the value of the
community throwing in millions of dollars for anything to do with the obligations the developer bought
on the skier chalet. I don’t buy there is no increased value to land. I appreciate the 30 year revenue
streams. I’m a little worried to start allowing these projections in a vacuum to be used as a common slide
to be used when we talk about benefits. My philosophy remains, that government money should be used
to stimulate things that the private sector is not going to take care of. I believe that this development
project is not going to hinge on the obligations that are there. My preference is to keep anything that has
to do with the historic society aspect off the table. On the housing stuff there were a lot of charts that
were explained a few weeks ago. We might have done a disservice to everyone when we put in those that
were going to be audited at a later date in the same category as those that were going to be completely
waived at the start. To back up Michael’s comment there are some fees that might be paid later only if
the employees are generated. Those were put in the same bucket as some other affordable housing asks
and I don’t think they belonged in the same bucket. There is a number that shows a minus and I think
Michael rightly pushed back. I think the number Bert is talking about is less than 19 but I appreciate he
wants all the affordable housing. With all the moving parts I prefer we take off the skier chalet
conversation and figure out if we need to have a Dean Street conversation. Michael asked about other
public infrastructure. Councilman Frisch said he would rather not put a dollar figure on the skier chalet.
Mr. Brown said a dollar amount is fine. It speaks to the viability of the project. We are seeking
something we are actually going to build. Councilman Frisch said you bought a project way back when
that did not have enough value to do right away. Part of the betterment for the community is the lift that
comes down and is great for you as well. I think there is money for you to pay for the project. I
appreciate there are benefits but there are benefits for everyone. Now we have the vote. I’m hoping it
passes. There are a lot of concerns about a lot of different areas. I think as we keep asking more from the
community we are losing support. Mayor Skadron said you are supporting option 4 with a contribution
towards Dean Street. Councilman Frisch said there is a maximum amount of money the city should put in
towards Dean Street and call it good.
Councilwoman Mullins said in opposition to the session before this where there was overwhelming
disagreement to what council was proposing I’ve only heard support for this project the way it is
presented. I think it is partly an obligation on the city to make it work. It is a complete package. If we on
council support this project for all the benefits that I think we will have in the future from it then we nee d
to put it in the best position to win the vote. Mr. Brown said if you are not in agreement on one of the two
options then we continue to a much later date and not discuss an ordinance. If there isn’t support we can’t
live with number four. We will have to come up with a different solution. Councilman Frisch asked are
you walking with anything less than Ann’s and Ward’s. Mr. Brown said if we can’t get to one of those
options we are going to have to think of something more creative that doesn’t include that ask. I don’t
know what that is right now. Mr. Clauson said the skier chalet building is not designated. It would be
possible for a developer to start a 90 day discussion to demolish that building. The museum and skier
services could be accommodated in a simple modern building for much less cost than the relocation pf the
skier chalet building. The two million contribution from the development partners plus a little more
money you could have something at the base of the lift that would function as a museum and skier
services but not the skier chalet. Mr. Brown said we will think through other options.
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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Councilman Hauenstein said when he wanted to see the delta between the FTEs made up he thinks that
could be done through a special taxing district. I hate to see those FTEs going away. The applicants have
the right by code for these adjustments. The code was written to encourage keys and rooms and that is
what they are delivering. To lose that housing is painful and by having a taxing district we can get those
rooms back not at the applicant’s expense.
Councilman Myrin said there is a conversation over a few million dollars. The question I asked at the last
meeting is the project not going to work without that and if that is the case what do we need to do to make
it successful. If is it 3 million or 19 million to make it successful I don’t want to put something on the
ballot that is going to deliver something that is not going to actually happen. I guess I have my doubts
that little bit is going to derail it. Ms. Garrow said there are a couple of options. We can continue to talk
and see if there is some number around the 4.36. My sense is if council is willing to participate in cost
sharing for Dean Street tied to the delivery of the lift or not it is still not quite going to make it with this
proposal. One thing that Stan has brought up that is really important for council to remember is the
ordinance that Lift One Lodge has vesting under does not designate the skier chalet lode. Designation
only happens after certificate of occupancy as the ski museum on Wiloughby park. It is not protected
right now. My sense is if this is continued to a later date that aspect of the project changes dramatically
and council can make a decision if you like that project better. Councilman Frisch said what is going to
come back is a bigger building to generate more revenue or lower expenses. Mr. Brown said maybe we
don’t come back. There has been so much time and effort and support for this.
Councilman Hauenstein said this feels like a poker game and I’m not a gambler. I keep feeling like we
are calling somebody’s bluff. For a project that has been in the works for a couple of years and the
community clearly supports, I feel that we have a budget of 120 million dollars and if we can’t find 4
million dollars to make this work and give it to the voters to decide. I think it is short sighted of this
council to not do what is necessary to make this work and get it to the voters to let them decide.
Councilwoman Mullins said that is well said. If there is hesitation about spending that much money. Our
decision will either be validated or not validated at the vote. I suspect from what I’ve heard there is
support for this project and the city to be partnering at this level. Councilman Myrin said he will
absolutely put this on the ballot. He may vote against the land use approval. Ms. Garrow said for the
referral for the ballot council will be asked to refer these ordinances. You will not be asked to vote on
them in a land use capacity. It is a straight referral and that is part of why we need additional time to
make sure the ballot language lines up with the ordinances. It is not going to be two votes. Councilman
Myrin asked why can’t we have this a land use approval and then go to the voters. Ms. Garrow said this
is a unique process. Mr. True said there are two ways to go about it. You could approve the ordinances
yourselves then refer them to the voters or just refer it directly to the voters. For various reasons the
attorneys for the projects and I agree the best way under this circumstance is to get the ordinance in a
position where the council is comfortable of referring the ordinances to the voters without a formal
adoption of those two ordinances. They do involve some of the litigation rules that do exist under the
rules of civil procedure. Councilman Myrin said by avoiding a vote is that something to avoid a
referendum. Mr. True said it doesn’t avoid a referendum but it could avoid a Rule 106 action.
Councilman Myrin asked why are we trying to avoid process or shortcut something. Mr. True replied we
are just trying to do something as efficient and effective as possible by giving to the voters a final
decision on an ordinance that you have gotten the most comfortable with.
Councilman Frisch asked about tying the payment to the lift. Mr. Brown said the suggestion was rather
than funding the museum just fund infrastructure and once we deliver the lift that money be paid back to
us at that number. There is significant public infrastructure that has gone in, will go in and needs to go in.
Dean Street, sewer, S. Aspen Street, Gilbert Street, park preparation to get it to that. In turn, we would
have an incentive to deliver the lift. Councilman Frisch said the 4.36 is an estimate. Ms. Garrow replied
it would be a fixed number in the way it is being proposed. Councilman Frisch said what he is hearing
Stan say is they could leave now and never come back or they might need to come up with a less
expensive building for the skier chalet replacement. Councilwoman Mullins asked if there would be a
number he could accept that is less than the 4.3. Councilman Frisch said he does not have a number. In
trying to balance what we would do here if this was where the buck were to stop versus what we were to
support going forward to allow the voters to have a crack at it.
Regular Meeting Aspen City Council December 10, 2018
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Councilman Frisch said he will support option three just so we can stop this conversation. This will be
the ultimate referendum one question of let the voters decide. Mr. Barwick said the snow and ice melting
are to be determined and the funding related to it are to be determined. Ms. Garrow said on the 7th this
will be more discussion about the specific language in the ordinances. Snow melt is not a guarantee at
this point. The items related to Wiloughby park, there are some agreements between parks and the ski
company we need to work out. Those would come from the parks fund. That is consistent with the
original approval. Anything above turf grass is parks obligation. The ordinance will include cost sharing
for 4.36 million revenue source to be determined once the lift is delivered and operational. Mayor
Skadron said he wants to add a condition that it is fixed at 4.36 million dollars. Councilman Myrin added
that to change the amount in the future would require anther public vote.
Councilwoman Mullins moved to continue Ordinance #38, Series of 2018 to January 7, 2019; seconded
by Councilman Frisch. All in favor, motion carried.
Councilman Frisch moved to continue Ordinance #39, Series of 2016 to January, 2019; seconded by
Councilwoman Mullins. All in favor, motion carried.
Councilman Frisch moved to adjourn at 11:45 p.m.; seconded by Councilman Hauenstein. All in favor,
motion carried.
Linda Manning
City Clerk