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HomeMy WebLinkAboutcclc.min.07171996COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 Aspen Sports cardboard compactor 1 81611 mall lease 2 Extension of Paid Parking 3 Public Relations Program - Employee training. 3 Art Sculptures 4 Block Par~y - Smuggler 6 City Manager Comments 6 199 7 Budget. 10 Downtown Enhancement Pedestrian Program (DEPP) 11 Commissioner Comments 15 17 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17. 1996 Jon Busch called the meeting to order at 8:30 a.m. with members Don Swales, Jack Stanford present. Bill Dinsmoor, Warren Ryan and John Starr were excused. Aspen SPorts cardboard compactor Bruce Bell, General Manager of Aspen Sports said he has not researched the cost of solutions however, the "community" compactor that is behind the Cooper Avenue mall located between Cooper and Hyman, is a little to small and he foresees a problem, in the fall when everyone receives much more stock than is received in the summertime. Bell stated that the mouth of the compactor is not big enough to accept the trash load that is going in there, even at this low time the trash is piled up and will continue to be, especially during the peak time, he suggested a larger compactor and Aspen Sports is willing to use the back side of their wall for a recycle bin so those contributing to the compactor could also pay a recycling service to pick up the cardboard on a daily basis. Bell said the old way, when everyone had their own garbage bins was a better system, it was cleaner at that time because when bins were overflowing it was taken care of right away, now people just let it pile up outside of the compactor and let someone else throw it in on their quarter. Swales asked who is piling it up, is it people in the alley or outside alley. Bell responded that the compactor gets clogged, the mouth is not big enough to accept all of it, you have restaurants storing the waterproof cardboard that does not compress like basic cardboard, according to Pack'm that is the best machine available, but the Aspen Sports machine, in Snowmass Village is through BFI it has twice as big a mouth and can handle the load. Stanford asked the size of the compactor. Busch responded that it appears to be bigger than BFI's but the door is smaller, he said he noticed there is some leakage and it is not as good a compactor as the one in the other alley. Stanford stated that if it is not compacting with one stroke or not compacting p operly Pack m needs to correct the s~tuat~on, ~fthe mouth is too small, if it can't compact like the Other one, it Sh6uld nOt have been put in. COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 Swales asked if Bell had talked with Pack'm. Bell responded no. Stanford said the people in the alley need to be educated, it sounds like some of the people are being lazy. Busch stated there was a problem in the other alley with people who were not paying for the service, they would dump their trash and hope someone who is paying.for service would throw it in the compactor. Busch asked if English and Spanish signs, defining the fines were installed in the alley. Stanford suggested sending a letter stating the above concerns, also a sign should be installed, immediately on how to work the machine, the fines and not to dump the trash outside. Bell asked ifPack'm bills each business individually or does the city. Bell suggested finding out who is paying to use the compactor. Stanford stated that there is Staffmember who enforces alley's. Bell said he called and Staff red tagged it. Stanford said we need to let Staff know there is a problem in that alley. Stanford stated that Lormie should be contacted and let him know that people are stacking up' and may be dumping and not paying, he also asked Bell if he talked with any of his neighbors concerning the recycling services. Bell responded that he had not. Stanford said the idea of putting in a bin is good. Bell stated that if it was split between a better share however, he realizes everyone may want to figure out how much their percentage is and that could be a headache. Busch stated that he is not inclined to support that, he does not see any advantage to recycling other than it adds clutter to the alley. Stanford said he is suggesting that the recycling issue is betWeen the neighbors and CCLC stay out of it. Busch said they want to put it in the alley. Bell stated that their building runs right up to the alley. Kathy Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk stated that she would write a letter to Pack'm and keep everyone posted. 81611 mall lease Gene Alder, Attorney for 81611 said they would like a mall lease for the same space that previous tenants in the building have used for purposes of restaurant seating, through the end of September. Swales asked if they would open during the day and serve food. 2 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 Alder responded lunch and dinner would be served outside, he said they will run a restaurant/nightclub on the first floor, the strip club will be in the basement. Swales asked how the downstairs will be accessed. Alder responded as of right now the door is still open between the upstairs and downstairs, they are looking into having it split between the two, so the downstairs may still be accessed through the exterior door next to Timberline books, no final plans have been made. Alder stated in all likelihood there may be an outside operator who runs the restaurant, the Clerks Office advised him that if that happens there may be a delay in getting approvals from the state. Stanford asked if sending out the notice to everyone who wants sidewalk cafe's for the summer and approving them woUld preclude this Commission from apProving one later on. Strickland said it would not. MOTION: Stanford moved to approve the 81611 mall lease. Seconded by Swales. Motion carries, two in favor, Busch abstained. Extension of Paid Parking / · Strickland said the extension of Paid parking will be on the September 4, 1996 agenda. Strickland stated that Warren Ryan wanted to get started on this project and the budget process, she talked with Randy Ready, Parking Director who responded that Parking & Transportation is a self-funded entity and has nothing to do with the budget, paid parking is their budget and it could be a quick supplemental if desired. Strickland said Ready is having the pro's & con's researched and does not want to come before this Commission until they are ready to present. Public Relations Program - Employee training Strickland said that Barbara Umbreit told her the public relations program meetings with Katie Marshall have been canceled until September. Stanford said they are having a seminar, it is not going to solve the Commission is concerns, the seminar; "Summer psyche up 96', Customer Service training for 3 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17. 1996 employees and Managers "topics are; 1) Great service tips to build repeat business; 2) really listening to your customers so you can me6t their expectations; 3) insure that customers are treated courteously and fairly; 4) learn what to do when faced with a customer complaint; 5) make your customers feel important and appreciated and; 6) use teamwork to make everyone's job more fun, with presentations from the Ski Co, this was received on the 12th, the seminar is on the 19th from 8:00 a.m. to NOON, the only ones who will show are the bosses and they already know this. Stanford said CCLC approached them asking for a continuos training program. Busch said it was a start. Stanford agreed, he just doesn't want the program dropped by saying it has already been done. Busch stated that the seminars should be done twice a day as all the employees can not attend the morning seminar. Strickland said she talked with Diane Moore of the ACRA, and Diane thought it was a good concept and the decision was CCLC would go to the ACRA meeting and tell them what we had in mind, city wide. Busch asked who was sponsoring the "Summer psyche up 96"'. Strickland responded the ACRA. Swales stated as a body, all this Commission can do is make suggestions to ACRA, if they reject them what else can be done. Art Sculptures Tori Saunders, runs Looking West Interiors and Fine Art, on the Cooper Avenue. Mall, she opened in March, she is trying to respect the wishes of Aspen and what we stand for and participate in the community. Saunders stated that she does not care for the sculptures that were put on the mall last week, she does not want to insult the artist or those who picked them, she feels the niche' that is going to appreciate that kind of art is much smaller than other areas, a lot of people on the mall agree, she feels they could be more properly positioned somewhere in town. Saunders said that they have a lot of restrictions as to what they can do with their windows and she respects that because there are reasons for that, she said her main focus is can the business owners participate in the decision making or have a say in what goes or/the mall. Saunders turned in a petition of approximately 11 signatures of other businesses on the mall that do not appreciate the art. Busch said the judging committee is made up of Anderson Ranch, The Art Museum and people they selected, he was a judge. 4 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17. 1996 Stanford stated that the committee of artists send out notices to local artists inviting them to submit something for display in this program. Busch said there is a prize. Stanford said the committee then reviews the pictures, drawings, ect..., chooses the ones they will use and bring their final selections to CCLC and we give them a stamp of approval, it is not going to be there forever. Saunders stated that a year is not a short time. Stanford suggested if there is a lot of concern on the part of the merchants on the mall that they come to CCLC, in mass or with a petition. Saunders said she has Aspen Sports, Mountains & Streams, True North, Big Horn Galleries and Looking West, those are four dominate businesses on the Cooper Avenue mall amongst a few other people, nobody cares for it. Stanford stated the problem is if they take it down and put up something else, someone else will say they don't care for that. Saunders stated the city fights hard to regulate retail businesses which she respects because someone may like a tee-~hirt and she may hate it so we keep it off the mall, she sees this as totally contradictory to that. Saunders said it seems as though a small group of people have free reign to do whatever they wish and she does not think it is something that represents the town of Aspen. Busch said if the city keeps a program like this, how do you (Saunders) suggest the works be judged and establishing criteria that says what is appropriate and what is not. Busch stated the purpose of this program was to create change in the mall, that is the reason that it rotates, you're suggesting that no sculptures should be located in the mall. Saunders said she feels it should be conservative, the historical town that we pride ourselves on, she suggested there may be a more appropriate place in town that is not right in the middle of the historic district. Stanford said to remember the people with businesses on this mall are paying a lot of money in rent and in taxes to this city. Busch stated he would much rather have an artwork that aroused emotions, even if they were bad emotions than something that nobody noticed, cared or commented on. 5 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 Swales stated that he agrees with Stanford if a lot more people on the mall object to the art, CCLC has to respond to that, if it is hurting their business or the image of the town. George Robinson, Parks Director suggested that if Saunder's is serious about a petition that she clearly state what is so offensive, he does not think the "I don't want this in front of my store", reason will hold with this Commission or other Committees. Rebecca Baker, Parks stated that there is a lot of history involved, as far as looking at the downtown program in Grand Junction and what it has done to the vitality of business in the historic section of their town, what they have found is it has enhanced the business area, there are different economics of play in Grand Junction vs. Aspen, she thinks it would be a very good idea to get some of the business owners, on the mall involved in selecting the art for the program. Baker said when you take pieces away after they have been selected, you lose some of the integrity of the program. Block Party - Smuggler Parties did not show. Busch asked what time of year will this event take place. Strickland said it is September 14, the Saturday of Ruggerfest. Busch stated that may be a problem because Ruggerfest is already pretty raucous. Stanford said the Commission can not take action today because there are questions concerning this event and the parties did not show up for this meeting. The Commission unanimously has a problem because this is the same day of Ruggerfest. City Manager Comments Amy Margerum, City Manager apologized for having to reschedule a meeting with the Commission, she said she wanted to know what the Commission needs, what projects they are working on, ect.., so she can assign appropriate Staff to the Committee. 6 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 Busch stated that in the broadest terms, Bill Efting is the best person this Commission has had in a long time, Efting would identify the problem and it would get fixed. Busch said they were very happy with Erring because he was very reliable, the concern is will the Commission get someone who will have that same kind of commitment and authority, Stanford said the bottom line is this Commission needs an Assistant City Manager, it is one thing for a Staff member to call on Planet Hollywood about a problem with their trash compactor, Efting had the ability to go directly to people and get in because he had the title, it makes a difference. Margerum suggested when an action item came up, Strickland would forward the request to her and we would have a systematic approach to follow-up, which is a lot of what Erring did, sometimes he did do it on his own. Margerum said Effing was a unique person and she will not be able to replace him, his skills, personality and history with the community are not easily found. Margerum stated that we need to make sure that if there is a concern that it gets to the right person, and it gets done, she said someone does not necessarily have to sit in every meeting, but it has to get done and together we need to track that, ifthe Commission feels these things are not happening then we need to talk. Margerum said Strickland has really kept her informed of what is going on with CCLC, unfortunately we do not have the luxury with any of our citizen committee's of just having one person and that's their whole job. Margerum suggests that they try this system for a while and see how it goes. Busch stated that CCLC is not a committee, it is the only City Commission that has a budget, which is based on the business license fee, originally it was half of that fee, Council amended it a few years ago so they now receive 1/3 of that fee. Busch said over the years CCLC has asked for a lot of things such as greater presence of foot patrol on the malls for greater periods of time, it is good for Aspen because a police officer is the first line of information for tourists as well as making people feel more comfortable, we have never been able to get that, CCLC loved the "Captain Clean Program", that has disappeared over the years, he feels that CCLC can be more effective with better representation and ultimately they are paying for that representation, in that it comes out of their budget. Margerum responded there are different ways of looking at your budget, if you feel CCLC needs more money to'do programs, you can make a recommendation, fora budget change to the City Council and if theY would like to pu~ their tax dollars towards that program, that is the trade-off they deal with every budget 7 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 year. Margerum stated the demands for the tax dollars, from our citizens is unbelievable, she said the Commission needs to make the recommendations and Staff will take them to Council as part of the supplemental budget process. Margerum said there is only "X" amount of money and Council has to decide where it goes. Stanford said it is painful to sit here and see the projects CCLC has been working on for 2 & 3 years that should have been done in 3-6 months, they are projects that Council is for, Staff has said go for it. Stanford stated that he, Dinsmoor and Erring met every week for four months on the delivery truck issue, there has been one hearing with the truckers, they have been trying to get the second hearing for 3 months. Margerum stated that a lot of our citizen boards, citizen commissions do not have Staff, they do a lot of the work themselves, she thinks you have to look at why something is taking a long time, assigning a person to the Commission is not going to make that go any faster. Stanford stated that when he and Dinsmoor were meeting with Efting on the delivery truck issue, things were ;getting done and they would then report back to the Commission. Margerum responded that is a good approach, if you have a project two of you want to work on, we can assign someone from Staff to work with you as long as it is not a huge workload for our Staff.. Margerum stated that if the Planning & Zoning Commission asks for Staff to do this, this and this and the Planning Staffis maxed out, she will say no, we have 24 citizen committees in this city and she is trying to run it lean and mean, we have tried not to increase Staff and have kept our budget at zero increase for the last two years so Staff would be efficient, we have a great Staff. Margerum said she could easily double the Staff of the city tomorrow to complete everything that everyone wants us to get done, and everyone would be busy with those requests, so it is a real trade-off, she thinks CCLC needs to understand the cumulative effects, you are not the only thing happening in the city, she has to weigh that. Stanford asked if Bob Gish was replaced. Margerum said he was replaced with Lonnie, we replaced Gish bottom down, that is why one of Lonnie's positions was to respond to citizen inquiries, immediately. 8 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 Stanford responded that his understanding was that Lonnie would be at each CCLC meeting, this is where we get citizen complaints there have already been two complaints today. Stanford said Lonnie came to the first couple of meetings and they have not seen him since. Margerum stated that is the kind of feedback she needs, maybe we can get Lonnie to come in and set the agenda so he is not sitting through things he does need to be there for, that would be more effective. Stanford said inevitably we have somebody in here complaining, usually about the mall or the alleys, if Lonnie were here, he could walk out of the meeting and do something about it, right now Strickland has to write it dOwn and contact Lonnie, that just takes up her time. Stanford asked if Efting would be replaced. Margerum responded that she has taken Effing's responsibilities and made some organizational changes, Tim Anderson is going to take over Golf, the Wheeler, Child Care, George Robinson is going to take a few things, Jack Reid is going to be on the trolley committee for Efting, Barbara Umbreit is going to take a lot of the citizen complaints that used to dome through her office, Umbreit is also going to make sure the department heads follow-up on the citizen complaints. Margerum stated that Efting's duties have been disbursed throughout other city departments. Busch said the city is growing immensely, 24 citizen groups is more than a city, five times Aspen's size has, he said with that kind of citizen participation there comes a point when you have to think more staffing. Margerum stated that if there are specific things we want accomplished, she would rather have those accomplished on a one time basis, for example if there is a project that we want to complete in a year, list the resources we need to get it done and work on it that way rather than just adding, adding, adding, we can never win with that, we do not have a tax base to support that, we either have to raise taxes or she will have to layoff, fire people, and reduce their salaries, she does not want to have to do that. Margerum said as a Commission CCLC needs to prioritize what it wants to accomplish on a yearly basis, she also suggested that Busch come in and talk with her once in awhile to touch base. stanford Stated that CCLC has b~en trying to arrange a meeting with the ACRA for at least a year, one of the reasons is to have Katie Marshall talk with them about an employee training program on how to handle the public, we have tried to 9 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17. 1996 get on their agenda for the last three months, We have asked Diane Moore to attend one of our meetings, she just doesn't have time for us, he said he is concerned that CCLC does not have a working relationship with the ACRA. Strickland said she had received requests that the sidewalk on Monarch Street be finished and was told to write a letter to Engineering stating that CCLC supports that. Margerum stated that she would follow-up on it, she thought Council approved that. Baker responded that the priority was to complete Cooper Street this year and it is in the budget to complete Monarch next year. Busch asked the status Proctor's. Robinson responded all Proctor has to do is sign the contract. 1997 Budget Robinson asked what CCLC needed to complete the street signs. Strickland responded $6000 because the first GIS l!ght pole map was not completely updated, so there were an additional 6-9 poles and the price is higher because some had the additional hanging signs attached. Strickland said there is a Sign missing up by Pitkin County Bank, there are a couple up by Durant, and Spring, she has a list of all the signs neede& Busch said there used to be signs on the street lights that were in the mall. Robinson suggested if there are any other additional signs for 1997 budget CCLC walk the city and see what is needed, that will be supplemental because it is a one time, if it is more than $6000 we won't have to go back or start pulling away from other programs. Busch said everyone likes these signs and before the newness wears off, if there are any other locations we want the signs, this is the year to do it. Busch stated that he would be inclined to say wherever we have the decorative street light standards, we ought to go with the street signs. Robinson said whatever CCLC wants to do with these signs, make sure it is in 1997 budget, maybe as a subcommittee each CCLC member can take a section of 10 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 the core and find areas that should be signed, he also agreed with Strickland that we should have blanks because there will be vandalism, and there will be others that want them. Busch asked about the $4500 for sculptures on mall, post and chain for mall streams, or sod, he said $4500 is spent on the mall sculptures, alone, where does the rest of that go. Robinson stated that it used to be $1500 for the mall sculptures and CCLC decided they wanted $4500, if some year CCLC only awards $4000 we will have $500 left over to complete the other projects. Busch said the CCLC budget has been $33,000 for some years now, isn't it 'supposed to be 1/3 of the business license fees. Robinson responded he was told all budgets should not increase and if it does it was less than 5%, ifCCLC wants to fight this, if you want this budget to increase, it does not do any good for Staff to go to Council and talk, you have to show up and state your case, they are going to ask questions and they will ask why. Stanford also noted that Margerum suggested if the CCLC comes up with a project like the street signs or trucking project, CCLC should go to Council with specific proposals and if they like it ask for the money to fund the project. The budget will be discussed further at the next CCLC meeting. Downtown Enhancement Pedestrian Program (DEPP) Tim Malloy, Staff said the goals and objectives have been completed and will be forwarded to the next Brown Bag session with Council, the DEPP has asked Staff to pursue a traffic calming experiment which grew out of a meeting with Fred Kent, who is the President of Project for Public Spaces. Malloy stated that Project for Public Spaces specializes in analyzing and helping communities examine a number of urban design issues, traffic circulation, use of public spaces and Kent suggested performing temporary experiments to gather data to see what works. Malloy said Staff and the DEPP group have been working together to structure an experiment to examine the impacts of having narrower travel lanes in the Core, they have been Working With the Streets Department to establish a minimum and decided that 12' in each direction, given the turn radius out of the alley for delivery vehicles and the ability to open car dOors when parallel parked. Malloy 11 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 stated that they looked at angle parking on both sides of the street to narrow the available space in the travel lanes however, they found there was not enough street width and were concerned it would create conflicts, they decided to artificially move out the curb using concrete curb stops to create a new curb roughly 4-5 feet from the existing curb and continue the existing parking pattern of parallel on one side, angle on the other, the curbs would be installed on the parallel side. Malloy stated that DEPP knows this will not be attractive and said they were going to ask if bike racks could be put in this space, maybe some shop owners that have planters wouldn't mind putting them in this area, the primary purpose for this experiment is to analyze; 1) does a narrower land width have any effect on traffic speed or the number of cars that are willing to use that street; 2) does it have a positive affect on a pedestrian's sense of safety crossing the street; 3) does it create any positive or negative impacts, in terms of multiple modes of moving around people on foot, bicyclists in traffic, the way the streets are set up right now you could probably ride a bike between where people park and where the cars are actually in the street, if this were narrowed most bicyclists would end up riding a little more in traffic and we are curious to see if they are comfortable with that. Malloy said one possible use of this information is to evaluate whether or not we have any room, given our streets and the way we use them to reclaim any additional area of the street for wider sidewalks. Swales responded he feels narrowing the streets will be a terrible risk to both motorists and bicyclists. Busch asked how long the experiment would take place. Malloy responded they initially discussed two weeks so there would be a long enough period of time. Malloy stated DEPP had a meeting with Staff and the City Engineer, the City Engineer suggested a period of 45 days, a minimum of at least 30 days because he felt DEPP would need to monitor whether or not people were modifying their behavior, the City Engineer also said it was a fairly standard approach when you do such an experiment. Stanford asked what Jack Reid, Streets Superintendent said. Malloy responded that Reid came to the meeting and did not comment On the time period but said he would be interested in looking at modifying and extending the experiment to look at a One-way travel pattern and look at establishing a trolley lane on the street so we would be able to see how that might work. 12 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17. 1996 Stanford said "neckdowns ", are a miserable thing for plowing a street. Malloy responded that in general, he thinks Reid does not like the idea of permanent "neckdowns ", he supports the experimem and knows that before permanent changes are made there will be discussions concerning how it functions, if it can be plowed, ect... Reid has expressed that concern. Stanford stated if the concern is heavy enough to shoot down "neckdowns ", which it has been before, why have the experiment. Bob Nevins, Staff responded that Cooper Avenue now has neckdowns. Malloy stated it is not enough to shoot it down, it will definitely become a concern and will be discussed if and when we decide to pursue such a thing that might include "neckdowns ", we are by no means saying this is a precursor to a permanent solution, it is an evaluation of what this does, either positively or negatively, in terms of how the street functions. Malloy said they intend to literally stop bicyclists and interview them, if they will stop, studies have found that bicyclists tend to integrate with traffic, traffic slows down to the 10-15 m.p.h. range and the results from interviewing and analyzing those situations were that the bicyclists felt as safe, or safer. Swales said with parallel parking he would buy that, not with angle parking, he said 20 years ago they tried one-way streets on all the North, South streets and that lasted about 6 weeks before they threw the program out. Busch responded that was because no one would honor it. Swales stated that outside experts do not understand our problem: Nevins said wouldn't you agree that a lot of the sidewalks, on the North, South streets are too narrow for the amount of traffic they are currently receiving. Swales stated that he is more concerned with the bicyclists. Stanford said he is concerned with traffic, in the summer traffic moves at a snail pace, bicyclists can get through faster at a moderate pace, he does share the concern with angle parking. Nevins stated that angle parking allows the turning movements and parking movements to occur much more rapidly than parallel parking. 13 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION . JULY 17. 1996 Busch said this idea has been around for years, until the experiment is done it will be theoretical whether it is or isn't, he supports the project although, the trolley project had a lot of trouble getting past the fire department and asked if DEPP had gone through the fire department. Malloy said they have not. Busch stated the fire department has very critical turning radii, widths, places where trucks have to be for fires, ect.., and suggestedthey talk with the fire department. Nevins said the turning radii of the vehicles that utilize those alley's, will be respected so that; 1) those service vehicles can make the turn coming in and out of the alley; 2) it protects the parked vehicles along those portions of the street, currently with angled parking the tale end of some cars block alley access. Nevins stated that one of the criteria as part of this experiment is that there is no net gain or loss in parking. Stanford stated that eighteen wheelers can barely make it with parking the way it is now. Malloy said the schedule is designed to implement this around August 5th or 6th, while waiting for the curb stops to arrive they will be doing traffic counts on Galena Street, Cooper Street and Hyman, a video on Guido's will monitor activities on the mall and on the streets for a couple of hours on two different days. Malloy said when the experiment is implemented they will do the same thing and will add Staff time on the street, talking with people about whether or not they sense any improvement, in terms of their comfort level in crossing the street as it is narrowed, the comfort level as a cyclist in traffic and so forth. Stanford asked how long it will run. Malloy said no longer than one month. Stanford asked out of curiosity, how much this will cost. Malloy stated that he does not have that refined yet, the primary cost will be the curb stops and incorporated in that is the ability to re-use them or sell them, rough cost estimate of curb stops will be $1350 and Reid has indicated that he would have use for approximately 30 stops and DEPP is going to try to sell the rest to keep the cost down to around $500, this will come out of the consultant budget for this project. Busch said he would be inclined tO leave it in over Labor Day. Malloy stated that he will be writing a letter to City Council, and he will convey the oPinion of CCLC, whatever the Opinion. Swales said he thinks it is a terrible idea and he would vote against it. 14 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17. i996 Busch stated that one nice thing about an experiment, is it will definitively show whether it is a bad idea or not. Malloy responded under the general directive DEPP received from City Council, he knows they will be considering things like widening the sidewalks to improve the pedestrian experience, they may consider making a recommendation of another block of mall, a lot of people on the group are not supportive of that and he does not think that recommendation will come out, but it may. Malloy said if we are going to look at a plan that will widen the Sidewalk, he wants this group to have this information when they are evaluating whether or not they should do a wider sidewalk and thus a narrower street. Swales said most bicyclists he knows will not go South on most of the streets because of the angled parking. Malloy said the idea is to get information to evaluate whether or not we can do wider sidewalks. Stanford stated as 10ng as it is an experiment and it doesn't go any longer than a monthl and it doesn't have a significant cost factor, we want to be able to say to somebody else, two years down the line, we have tried to do this before.. Nevins said this can not occur on every street in the downtown core, each one of those streets has a different width. MOTION: Stanford moved that CCLC support the proposal for an experiment not to exceed 30 days. Seconded by Busch. Motion carries 2-1, Swales voted no. Busch stated not CCLC, but regarding the Trolley Group, we would rather not do an experiment with the trolley lane because we don't need to pile on another layer of opposition to the project, the trolley is proposed to be integrated with the vehicular traffic lanes. Commissioner Comments Busch asked about the color of paint the Electric department is painting the street lights on the mall, it appears to be black. Strickland said she is going to call Bob Nelson about purchasing the paint he used on the street signs, because it lasts for 15 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION JULY 17, 1996 20 years. Busch also said that streetscape things need to get back under control, in front of the Gap they are putting planters in front of the trees, the problem is there is no watering mechanism for those trees. Busch said he talked with Bill Early, Electric Department and he does not have a street light painting program, it is not in the budget. Strickland responded that could be a budget item, at the next meeting we could request that we contract that out and she will get some estimates. Busch said they are looking to shabby, tourism is our business. Meeting adjourned at 11:00 a.m. Amy Gl Sc~mid, DepUty City 16