HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.council.19760216 Public Hearing Aspen City Council February 16, 1976
Mayor Standley called the special meeting to order at 7:10 p.m., with Councilmembers
Behrendt, De Gregorio, Pedersen, Johnston, Wishart, Parry, City Manager Mahoney, and
City Attorney Stuller present.
Mayor Standley outlined the agenda; a presentation by the Mayor, the Planning Office,
the designers will review the design process, Don Fleisher representing the Mall Commission
will give a report, Robin Molny will present the estimated construction costs, City
Manager Mahoney will cover the final design report and Construction Management, City Clerk
Hauter will report on the status of the official objections, the Public Hearing - the
comments will be limited to three minutes, the City Attorney will report the alternative
course of action, and Council discussion and decision.
Mayor Standley outlined the history of the malls and reminded Council that the present malls
were not a direct result of Council action, but of high school students. The malls were
instituted in June of 1973. Originally, as provided by the Public Mall Act, there were
five damange suits filed against the City for damanges because of street closure. Four of
these suits have now been withdrawn; the remaining suit is by a leasee who does not have
legal standing under the Constitution or the Mall Closure Act of the State. That suit will
probably be dismissed this week.
The two streets proposed for extension are Galena and Cooper, have been in the planning
process for two years. A year ago a Resolution asking for closure of those streets was
presented to Council. It was felt at that time that it was not appropriate because the
final planning had not been done. Mayor Standley told Council there was 45% (per cent)
objection to the closure of these two streets; 32.9 per cent of that objection is by out
of town owners.
Mayor Sta~dley said that the issue seems to be what to do about the various problems
created by the mall. The removal of 53 parking spaces is the biggest problem. Mayor
Standley told Council that the Vail bus system carried 240,000 people during January; the
City of Aspen bus system carried 50,000. Vail seems to have their problem under control
using mass transportation. Vail has taken a positive attitude and has shown they can make
a bus system work, and have made the parking garages work.
Mayor Standley told Council that after the last general mall planning session, there was
an attempted arson in one of the buildings in downtown Aspen. This building~is owned by
a person who is a very strong proponent of the mall. Mayor Standley said that kind of ac-
tivity is taking an issue to a level that the City doesn't want to deal with issues in this
town. If people feel their position is being so ill-represented that they have to resort
to precipitous action, it:is a very sad commentary on the quality of certain citizens that
exist in this community. This is a frightening attitude that people would take that kind
of action. Upon questioning of the details of this incident, Mayor Standley further relate(
that. this was an attempt on the Aspen Block Building, owned by Don Fleisher. When asked
for further details, Mayor Standley related that this was not the place or time to go into
these dialogues. He stated that the commentary to the citizens comments were simply
comments; this would not be a judicial hearing and that Council was there only to receive
input, which is the entire purpose of this meeting. Mayor Standley outlined the rules to
be abided by at this Public Hearing and that anyone causing disruption would be removed.
He introduced the Planning Office; Mall Planners, Robin Molny and Tony Coleman.
Bill K.ane, of the Planning Office, submitted several'articles to record, such as adopted
reports, plans, information, and minutes of public meetings for Public Hearing Record.
1. Aspen Area General Plan, submitted in 1966
2. Regional Transportation Plan, City of Aspen and Pitkin County, dated in
July of 1973.
3. Colroado State Highway Design Concept Study, June 1975.
4. The Aspen Mall Gazette, Published in the Aspen Times on February 6, 1975.
5. Minutes from the Mall Town Meeting, held at 8 p.m. on February 13, 1975.
6.
Aspen Mall Gazette, Published in the Aspen Times May 29, 1975.
7. Minutes from the Mall Town Meeting, held at 8 p.m. on June 5, 1975.
8. Minutes from Aspen Mall Commission to include all those meetings from
January of 1975 through February 13, 1976.
9. Mall Information Program which includes 20 questions and answers about the
Mall.
10. Highway 82 Automobile data, to include the Pitkin County Automobile Regis-
tration from 1966 through 1975.
Kane further gave the background information prior to completing his presentation using the
Chart to show those persons involved in coordinating the mall closure proposal: Planning
Office and staff, 10 ma~ Mall Commission, (created for the purpose of dealing in adminis-
trative matters concerning the mall), and City Council. The mall planning program was
initiated in January of 1975. There were two town meetings. What was recommended was the
Vorhees Transportation Plan, done in 1973. The facts leading to the recommendation
were 1) the intersection of Galena and Cooper carries the highest pedestrian traffic in the
City. In the summer of 1973 hourly counts were taken by Vorhees and Associates, and as
many as 1,250 pedestrians were counted at this intersection in one hour, 2) in these two
blocks are some of Aspen's most prestigious architecture, the Aspen Block, Bowman Block,
Independence Bldg., Eagles Building, and Cowenhaven Building. He outlined the waterways
that were proposed, such as water to come from the Roaring Fork on the East End for decora-
tive touch, come through Cooper, down Galena, for irrigation purposes. The third aspect
was storm drainage proposal improvements to 54 inch storm drains. This would drain down to
the Rio Grande property. The Sinclair property was discussed. The Expansion program was
recomended for reasons of storm drainage and land use. The automobile ~as,~discusse~.~url
traffic counts were taken during Christmas, by the Engineering Department at the Castle
Creek Bridge. On Dec. 7, 1975, 16,000 autoS were counted coming into Aspen. Carbon mono-
xide testing was done on Mill and Main by the County Sanitarian, seven times in December
the carbon monoxide count exceeded standards set as safe by the U. S. Enviromental Protect-
ion Agency. The street traffic on a daily scale has increased as much as 10% per year since
1972. Bill Kane then turned the presentation over to Robin Molny.
Molny showed the public where the planning existed at the present time, what has transpir-
ed in the process. The main objective was stated as relieving the automobile congestion
problem. The second consideration was preservation of the historical aspect and the com-
munity tradiHion. Emergency access was also a major consideration for the downtown area.
Trying to incorporate water rights and affordability were also considerations. Tony Cole-
man presented the slide show to the Public, on the proposed Mall Design, where the plan
stands as of today. Coleman then presented the Mall Master Plan to the Public. He related
the changes that the design has gone through and that the original theme was too much tour-
ist orientated. The cottonwood and the water theme, based on the historic theme of Aspen,
were incorporated in the new theme. Expanding Wagner Park will be utilized for a child-
ren's park. Coleman showed the model of the mall proposal. Independence Square was dis-
cussed with limitless possibilities. Cooper Street, Hunter Street, Galena Street were
discussed with the general feeling of the mall presenting a lot of open space, cottonwoods,
irrigating water, grass for seating and causul atmosphere. Outdoor exPansion of resturants
was discusse~ as long as it does not interfere with emergency vehicles. The ov~'rall intent
of the mall is to return the streets to the pedestrian, tourist or local.
Mayor Standley then called on Don Fleisher for the Mall Commission report. Fleisher pre-
ceeded his report with the comment about the Commission itself. He related that his com-
ments could not possibly reflect the feelings of every commission member. The mall com-
mission background was given. He related the problems encountered in trying to operate the
mall, in regards to policies and plans. In the fall of 1974, the Mall Commission catalize~
the idea of getting into a Master Plan for the future of the mall. This included improve-
ments of the existing mall and possible extensions. In January 1975, an intensive planninc
study was undertaken and is still underway. He related the relationship with the people
at City Hall, the people who maintain the mall; and how these interact together to give
credibility to the Commission itself.
Mayor Standley then called on Robin Molny to give a report on the estimated cost of the
proposed mall. Molny related that as yet, the mall is still in the palnning stage, and
that it was in no way in the final stage. The probable ~osts for construction were approa~ ~ed.
The construction will be handled in part by Construction Management approach, and in part
by the City. All the hard goods, from the top of the pavement down, will be done under
the Construction Management contract, and then the "goodies" will be be done by the City.
Demolition, excavating and grading will come under the Construction Management contract. ~
Street furniture, such as benches and bridges, others such as children's playground fac-
ilities, street lighting, store fronts that might be damanged during construction, surface
water, etc., will be handled by the City. Contractor's overhead and profit, professional i
fees for architects will all come under Construction Management. Landscaping and paving ~,~
will be done by the City. The Construction Management fee ~ould be around $860,657.00: it
is recommended that this figur~ be bonded. Under the City costs, it would be around
$302,093.00. The first part ~o be done in 1976, and the second part to be done by the Cit'
in 1976 and 1977. This brings a grand total cost of the mall expansion to $1,162,751.00.
City Manager Mahoney was called on by Mayor Standley to review the Construction Management
and Design report. Mahoney stated that in the management of the mall the past two years,
he had come to realize that the design element ~ the mall is very important.
- ...... ~'eDruar. 16 1976_
The interaction of the Mall Commission, the people, the shop owners on the Mall, the
people %hat deliver goods to the mall, the street department, Police Department, and
general people that bring their dogs, ride their bicycles, use profane language, have
open containers, and then those that treat it with consideration, all have an effect on
the answer to "Can we manage a new Mall". The answer is "yes", because we are going Eo
come back to these people and ask their help in managing the mall. In terms of house-
keeping, there will be a person ($10,000 per year) with a badge who is a sworn officer,
responsible to Marty Hershey for police conduct in keeping the open containers off, keepin
the dogs out and there will be designed into the new mall a dog "parking area". This
Mall MaintenanceOfficer will know the alleys and shop keepers and will have a badge and a
gun. In addition, a laborer with a wheel barrow will take care of the small items left by
people in the mall. The city experimented with leaving the snow during the winter, but
it didn't work. M~honey stated that in general, he did not forsee any problem with the
people in ~he mall. Construction will probably begin the first of April so it can be
comepleted and be out by the first of July, which would be the end of the first phase.
This will be the planter~ and trees, teetertotters, etc. The second phase will be paving.
Mahoney showed a sample of St. Louis bricks to be used for paving. These bricks are curr
being tested for cold, water, and durability. Mahoney stated he was very interested in
developing storm run offs and had budgetted $150~000 to do it aside from the mall.
Mayor Standley called on the City Clerk, Kathryn Hauter to give the status of official
objections to the street ~losure. Ms. Hauter stated that objection letters were received
from the Bert Bidwell Investment Corp., Faternal Order of the Eagles, Heinz and Elaine
Wolfe, John Cheek, of the Aspenhof Condominiums, C.A. Muer Corp., the Indpendence Company
and Stein Erickson. Sandy Stuller was then called on to interpert the official status
of the objections themselves. Ms. Stuller stated that the Public Mall Act of 1970 states
that if owners of land abutting this Mall represent a majority of the frontage, and have
made written objection to the Mall, then it must be subjected to an election before it may
be closed. Terra Alta Stores, Inc., had also submitted an objection letter, which is the
owner of Crossroads drug, but, however, they are not an owner of porperty, so it need not
be acknowledged. Andrel Molter also submitted a letter, but again is a leesee, not an
owner so this was not acknowledged. Problems are with Heinz Wolfe's objection, which lackI
his wifes signature, even though she is a joint owner. Stein Erickson's objection was als~
defective. John Cheek and the Cooper Street Building is of the most conern. John Cheek,
as an individual and as the Investment, along with Aspen Construction Company, is shown
as the owner of 10 units on the first floor and the garage area. However, there are 10
owners of units on the second and third floors of that building. No protest was received
from those second and third floor owners. Nor, have we received a protest from Aspen
Construction. However, for purposes of this hearing, we have determined that 50% of the
frontage would be allocated to John Cheek, as he does have control over 10 of the units.
If the defective protests are taken from the mall, total protests are 45%.
The Public Hearing was opened for Citizen Comment by Mayor Standley.
NANCY SNELL: The main concern Ihave is that the people I have talked to are concerned
as to whether the Mall Commission and the City can properly manage the mall. What should
be emphasized is that in the last three years with the Mall Commission, we have experiment
m~ny solutions, some successful and some failures. The new mall design will
time mall officer, a~d t~ou~ ~ .... : ...... have the full~
of the people. We're be~ ~ .......... the solution to the concerns
~ .... , ..... ~ ~u=~x¥~zy o~ tne commitment ~ade to the people th~ ~h~,~ ~
- z~ uu~L~uc~lon snoul~ not be delayed any further.
MICHAEL KINSLEY: It's nice to see someone else under the guns for a while. It is im-
portant to look at the whole prospective of the mall. We are talking about one element of
a whole transportation system. The system of mo~ng, a lot of people around the valley.
More than that, we are talking about change. We aah either direct and mold the change
or let the change get the better of us. ii, have been closely related to the Mall over a
number of years, having been Mall Administrator f~ a while. Some of the things that
became very clear to me when I was Administrator ~ that we have a lot of problems with
the mall. One of the things that's going on is ~hat we had before, a lot of streets with
a Mall stuck on it, which is one of the sources of problems on the Mall. When a Mall is
designed in a certain space this does occur. These problems are only 10% or 20% of the
issue. 90% of the issue is that we need a mall in downtown Aspen, and this community
wants it.
DOTTIE FOX: The mall is really important to me, and I think it is to a lot of other peopl~
The mall has given us a free, untraffic orientated place to relax and enjoy the surroundin~
Young mothers can wheel their baby carriages without being worried about the automobile,
which is one of the few places small children can be without worrying about this. The
mall recreates the small town experience. It gives the town the sense of being a com-
munity. I am asking you to expand this experience by enlarging the mall and make Aspen
an even better place to live.
MICHAEL CHANDLER: I can only say that first hand experience casts a very favorable im-
pression on the mall. I have a small son who is very mobile and I can plop him down ~n
the mall without having to worry about traffic. I can also speak first hand from a
Policeman's point of view as to how it is to work in the mall. It has not turned ou~ to
be a hangout for the cocaine crazed population of Aspen. In general it is a good crowd.
If my opinion is worth anything to the City Council, you have a tremendous decision to
make ~n front of you. The mall is a very worthwile thing and something Aspen should have
more of.
NELSON JAY: Speaking for the Roaring Fork Group of the Sierra Club. We urge City Council
to allow expansion of the Mall. Aspen can no longer accomodate the automobile in the
center of town. The air pollution levels are already exceeding the national level. The
peaceful Alpine experience is giving way to the frantic, bumper to bumper automobile
congestion that is occuring in the core area of town. The mall has given everyone a
)lace to get away from this.
JO MANN: I enjoy our mall, I enjoy the freedom of movement with fresh air and low noise
because of no cars. I believe towns are for people and no~ machines and that now is the
time to turn away from previous policy of tr~ing to adopt everything in our lives to
machines. (This comment was read by Mayor Standley)
MURRAY POPE: I belieye very strongly that the mall systems should be expanded and made
permanent. I have a great deal of c ~tact with the public and the overwhelming majority
favor the mall. The mall can be the single most important factor in keeping Aspen from
being engulfed by the automobile. There is no question in my mind that an enlarged
system, along with an auto disincentive program is probably the best thing that can happe
for both the City and the County in the near future.
JEAN SWANSON: I moved here from Minneapolis where we have an extensive mall system. I
really enjoy shopping in the mall. The objections to losing a few parking spaces doesn'
warrant scrapping the whole plan for the mall.
BRUCE GEISS: I won't pretend to changeCouncil's mind, but I do want to impress that I
don't think you have a mandate to expand or improve or in general upgrade the mall. To
date, the mall has not solved the auto problem. We know the pollution is as big as ever.
The parkingproblem is as big as ever and will get even bigger. Most of the reference
here tonight has been to preserve our historical buildings and water use, and the problem
of the Sinclair station. The design of the mall is where you lost your mandate with me.
It is as contrived as can be, and way to slick for this town.
ARLEENE JARMON: Most of the conversations I've had about the mall seem to get down to
whether you like the mall or not. Yes or No. I wanted a mall four years ago, but I've
had a shop on the mall for a year, and it isn't working that well. It is delightful
duirng the day and horrible at night. Having contrived activities in the mall is not wh~
a mall is all about. The slide presentation I saw tonight looks like New York City.
I don't see how we're getting any closer to solving the transportation problem by ex-
panding the mall. We're just pushing these cars over to the east of the mall on into the
residential districts.
KIEFER MENDENHALL: After listenlng to the last two presentations, I would like to say
nobody has been coached. My recommendation was just to show up and say what you feel.
You have spen~ a lot of time, and a lot of taxpayers money reacting to the fact of our
existence rather than repsonding to the things we have said. You haven't heard it all
put together. Tonight you are going to hear people say things you don't want to hear
and things that you have been trying to ignore. By and large you have not addressed your-
self to the issues, you've not given us an opportunity to give them to you all at once.
Last Friday, your propaganda effort was such that you were able to call an assembly of
the Hish School and as a result some of the teachers were a little unhappy. They asked
me %o come out and talk along with George to a couple of social studies classes. I
tried to show them how the political process doesn't work in this town, one of which is
no dialogue being allowed by council, this large public relations campaign you have
instigated without really knowing the substance of our position. I related that you have
set us up as being proponents of the automobile and pollution, etc., which misses the
point entirely. I told them of the pressure that has been put on City Employees to
be pro-mall, your attempt to buy off the property owner at the Independence Building
by waiving the carrot of getting the brick contract for the new mall. It is quite dis-
couraging. I would still like to know why you have ignored us and our position until our
strength in number of voters became known to you. I feel there is an ego trip involved, --
and I wo~ld submit that ego trips are great and everybody should enjoy them, but coupled
with ego should be conscience.
MARVIN JORDAN: I was pro mall in the beginning and am still pro mall, but I am more than
just a little opposed to the concept of expanding and compounding the malls p~Qhlems
before they are solved. Bill Kane and the planners have addressed themselves to the
details of the cottonwood trees and the underground water and above ground water and the
fountains and $400,000 worth of bricks, but they haven't addressed the problem of what
we want to do with Aspen and what we want Aspen to be like a year from now. You don't
solve the automobile problem by saying that the autos can't come in here. You let it
die a natural death by having a transportation system~ that wil~ work. I've got business
on the mall here and I've got a business on the mall in Vail. I tell you Aspen is a town
that is nicer to live in because it is a real town, Vail is a plastic town. I can see
Aspen heading in that direction. By making it more difficult for cars to get in, then
businesses like Tom's market, Sardy's Hardware, are going to have to move out to the edge
of town. By doing this, you are going to reduce their volume of sales and thereby reduce
the volume of sales tax revenue the town of Aspen receIves. Delivery is another problem
you haven't quite thought out. Since the post office will not deliver downstairs, like
to Timberline bookstore, I have to come into the alley between the Red O~ion and Timber-
line. You know how congested this alley ge~s with all the liquor delivery trucks. If
you mall this block you are going to make these trucks traverse two blocks of alleys, and
thereby congest the delivery alleys even further. Independe~e Square is only a couple
of tennis courts in size, and you've got a lot of room b~etween the malled streets, so I
don't see what the big deal is about buying, spending several hundred thousand dollars to
get that property to get a sixty foot square hole ~n the wall covered with brick walls on
two sides.
LARRY BEER: I am speaking on behalf of the Student Council of Aspen High School. I gues~
you are all aware that the malls were originally a student project and when the two stude~ s
brought the idea of malls to Council, you and the voters of Aspen had the good sense and
foresight to approve it. The highs school students feel the same way about the mall
now as they did then, they like it very much and they want it to remain part of Aspen.
is the feeling of the Student Council that mall expansion could be one of the greatest
things that ever happened to the City if done correctly, and with a minimunof disruption.
To expand the malls thoughtlessly could ruin the uniqueness of downtown Aspen. There are
two problems we are faced with, first is the lack of parking. Even though half of the
spaces lost by the mall would be compensated for by changing parallel parking to angle
parking, it was felt that with the ~raffic situation in downtown Aspen being the way it
is already, that the loss of even one parking space would be the loss of one too many.
There is a fear that with expansion, the core would prove to be nothing but a tourist
orientated shopping center. With these thoughts in mind, I guess the opinion of the
Student Council is qualified enthusiasam.
GREG GOLMAN: I am another high school student, but I represent my own opinions. Many
of you ran on the political platfor~t~ a mall was a good thing and therefore it should
be extended. Therefore, you are stating that many of the people or the majority of pe~pl
are in favor of this particular mall because you ran on that platform. This is a wrong
philosophy. You have not solved the major problems of the existing mall. Trash removal
and snow removal for instance. Why not improve the-existing mall. I also do not under-
stand why you need $400,00 worth of bricks from St. Louis to build a mall. Half of your
money is being spent on bricks. Why not use that money to improve the facilities in the
existing mall. You also haven't guaranteed the people the 7th penny revenue will be there
for the mall, and you don't know how much it will cost. As the analogy goes, to chop
down a tree, you chop it down at the trunk not at the branches.
RAMONA MARKALUNAS: I seem to be cursed with the question of "can we afford it". I will
show you here some figures from the 1976 Budget of the City Council. Projected revenues
from the seventh penny are $690,500.00, with some kind of joint program with Pitkin County
which makes a total projected revenue of $836,593.00. The expenditures I could pick out of
this budget that were attrituable to the seventh penny were the debt service on the Rio
Grande Property of $157,570.00, Food Tax refunds for $36,000.00, and Mini bus debt service
$34,813.00, UMTA capitol contribution $200,000, Transportation operating costs of bus
system $330,000. Mall maintenance $25,000.00. In 1974, the mall maintenance figure was
$63,284.00. I don't know how they accomplished this reduction ~n maintenance, but perhaps
it was by allocating the cost of maintenance to other City departments or by having little
or no maintenance. I point out to you that this leaves $81,000.00 surplus in the Seventh
Penny fund. A mere 10% reduction in revenue could wipe out that surplus. From the Council s
own b~dget, seventh penny money appears to be substantially expended. Resolution ~4, limit
expenditures from the seventh penny funds to $850,000 for mall construction for fiscal year
1976. Where is the money to expand the mall? ,We have a mall. If it were properly main-
tained, we could all en3oy it without expansion. The people of Aspen voted to tax them-
selves the sixth and seventh penny for capitol improvements and transportation needs. The
transportation system needs have not been adequately addressed by the City. The current
buses are shaky, uncomfortable, and do not provide the proper service needed in the City.
The prospect of buying new buses ~s very real. The mini bus cost was $174,000. Where is
the money for replacement? Parking provisions and improvements in the Rio Grande Center
do not seem to be funded in the 1976 budge~. Presumably, nothing will be done down there
this year. The major choice is between an improved transportation system or an expanded
mall. Given the facts, the citizens can make an intelligent choice.
DICK MEEKER: Bob Throm spoke on behalf of Dick Meeker. The Aspen Board of Realtors
position on the expansion was introduced into the record. A survey was also introduced tha~
was taken among the Board of Realtors. The greatest ~ssue discussed tonight is change it-
self. This is brought about by people. The people should have the opportunity in an issue
as great as the mall, to express themselves at the ballot box.
Mayor Standley proceeded to read the letter submitted by the Aspen Board of Realtors on the
Council's own time. The letter gave the background of the research done by the Board on thc
mall expansion program and their involvement with Mall Commission and City Council. They
expressed their concern for the opposition of the individuals, owners of businesses, and
property owners and their rlqht to participate in such an important addition to the city.
We are concerned about the financial responsibility of the City in expanding the mall and in
providing sufficient funds for the maintenance. City Council has a lack of regulation for
use of the existing malls and the proposed expansion for proper policing and maintenance.
We are concerned that there muSt be a coordinated solution to displacement of the automobil~
to public transportation. We feel the people of Aspen have the right to express themselves
by vote or referendum. This should also include the question of timing for expansion as
well as whether to or not. The letter further related ratios to questions regarding mall
expansion. It also included the right of the City to spend Public Funds for mall expansion
LARY GROEN: Stated that he was asked by the Mall Commission to speak on the changing face
business in the downtown area. Lary related that the problems existing in the mall itself
would basically still exist ~f the mall did not. For instance, the White Kitchen and Delic~
Pastry. It would be difficult to drive into downtown Aspen and go into the shops, parking
will not permit it. Double parking was very common on Hyman street when the mall did not
exist. I do not feel that we will experience simply souvenir and T-shirt shops. People
want ~o buy T-shirts. At present there is only one shop like that and the souvenir shops
are part of the Aspen experience. The biggest problem is deliveries to the downtown area.
We do need the malls for pedestrian experience and the delivery problem can be solved with
a little forethought and research.
STAN LORESKI: Speaking on behalf of the Aspen Volunteer Fire Department. The fire depart-
ment has had problems in the existing mall with fire access and in the process of fighting
fires. He made comment to the fact that in the slide presentation there did not seem to be
much right of way access for the Emergency Vehicles, including Fire Department of Ambulance.
The bridge poses a problem. The fire trucks weigh 50,000 pounds a piece, and getting them
across that bridge is not feasible. The majority of the Fire Department members are opposed
to the mall for those reasons.
KRISTIN STAUFFACHER: I have been a mall resident for three years. It is a very delightful
experience and people thoroughly enjoy it. The only problem is that we have the cart, where
is the horse? There are some problems that need very astute considerations, gl0 Traffic
problems. The people that live in the Mall need parking as well as the people that shop
there. #2. Snow removal, this is a dangerous area. The shops must have their area cleaned
Itwo hours after a snowfall,, but the streets that are a city responsibility remain icepacked.
When these problems and problems like these are solved, then go ahead with your plans.
IHAN GRAMIGER: Pointed out that the list of protesters in reference to property owners was
deficient as far as the Birkwood Associates was concerned, as the mortagee is the Aspen
Grove. The abutting property owners such as Guido Meyer, Elks Club, and the Aspen Square
were not notified, Graminger said. "I have been here twenty years and have a genuine love
for the town." Hans gave the history of the Commercial Core. As of April 28, 1975, the
zoning code of last year adopted, on page 9B, is a clear indication that it was intended
2/3 local use and 1/3 tourist orientation. Malls encourage high square footage rental rate~
this promotes tourist orientated businesses and penalizes local shoppers. When every rest-
urant owner on the mall has his sidewalk area, resturants will take up a lot of commercial
space. The statement that you will make up for the parking spaces lost is incorrect. The
01anning office has already come out with the facts that phases I -IV are a gradual de-
Crease in autos and change from angle to parallel parking, thereby diminishing available
parking. Hans addressed the Council in reference to their publication of Mall Information
and the fact that they had quoted the Vorhees Plan out of context. The Aspen General Mas-
ter Plan is only ten years old and is already obsolete. This mall plan may be something
someone is dreaming and will find obsolete by the time 10 years have expired. Why use the
money used to acquire property wherever it is at today's market pric that isn'E hurting
anybody and is surrounding the commercial core. Gramiger related the number of people he
comes in contact with that dislike the plastic atmosphere of the SnoWmass mall. He com-
pares this with the plastic atmosphere o~ Vail.
AL BLOMQUIST: Speaking on behalf of Dwight Shellman and the Board of County Commissioner:
The Commissioners endorse the mall, and they feel it will help reduce air pollution and
auto congestion. He felt it would help strengthen the historic aspect of Aspen and re-
lated what lengHhs had been gone to in the remodeling of the County Courthouse to clean
it up. He discussed the improvements of a mini mall on Galena Street, landscape behind
the court house, building the bus loop to the Rio Grande parking lot and planting grass to
the river as part of a auto disencentive program relating to a very large number of square
blocks between the river and Main street. The Mall improvement is a logical next step
the evolution of this town in becoming a resort in this part of Colorado.
RUTH POPE: The mall, the green trees and greenery and running water is a nice change
from the smelly autos that jam the downtown center. I would like to see the immediate
space finished before any enlargement is done.
BOB SPROULL: I was disturbed by Mick Mahoney to learn we are going to have to hire an
armed guard to police the mall. Let's assume that malls in themselves are a fine thing.
Why have malls? 1. Stop congestion. Is anyone not coming downtown because two more stree~
are blocked off? Of course not. In fact those that come will start using streets that arc
not malled, thus we have not stopped congestion, just moved it to other areas. 2. Polluti~
The same is true, we are just moving it to other areas. ,We are, however, creating some
people pollution in the paved streets. 3. De-emphasis on the automobile. A key point is
that, if in fact we have a million dollars to spend, should it not be in this area, moving
people reliably rather than in a visual display that only ~n token accomplishes the goals.
It Ks not illogical to ask that the problems of the current mall be solved before spend-
ing one million to mall more. The city has not shown that it can operate what it has, why
give it more? Don Fleisher, when questioned at a Board of Realtors meeting said it had
something to do with storm drainage. I suggest that the Council put this million dollar
question before the people by vote for two reasons; a majority of businesses on the cur-
rent mall and near it do not like it, two, there is a tremendous division amongst the
people who live here, if the want it. 4. It is the largest expenditure I am aware of in a
non acquisition nature you have made and the people have a r~ght of say in something like
that. 5. If you do not put it to a public vote, it is possible to be forced into one by
referendum. According to the City Clerk, only 213 signatures are needed to call a refer-
endum, and we shouldn't have any problem getting those.
ELOISE ELGEN: I think we are trying to move too fast. We have a lot of problems we need
to solve before we do an more malling. You are not getting rid of the cars, you are just
pushing them out. I live at Hopkins and Original and we can't park in front of our house.
JOANIE BLANNING: ~ think Krist and I are the only ones that ~ know of that are residents
on the mall and have a distinct advantage of being there all the t~me. The idea and con-
cept of a mall is extremely delightful. There are a number of problems that have been
stated here tonight that still exist. The malls are improperly policed. When the music-
ians gather large crowds and play past ten at night, they are only taking business away
from other businesses in town. The next morning there are ramification such as broken
bottles, evidence of people getting sick all over the place, invaded our building, which
has caused our owners to go to a tremendous expense to try and do something about our
entryway. I have registered a number of complaints, not til midnight sometimes, because
of organized noise. In all the complaints I have registered, only one drew police respons
This is evidence of not having the proper police control. Mr Mahoney mentioned that if
the malls were expanded, the Maintenance would probably have to carry a weapon, which I
think he will. People get very belligeren~ and whan there are that many partying at that
hour, they don't want to stop. There aremore people that live in the mall than you think.
We have no place to park. We are going ~oo fast. I'm afraid the City Council has carried
its band wagon a little too far. I think 45% is a huge ma3ority of businesses. They have
some very immediate concerns that should be considered.
LINDA JOHNSON: I happen to agree w~th the people who said that it should be put to a vote
I think the mall would probably win. I agree with Michael Kinsley, but I would like to
ses the City Council and Management enforce some of the laws we've got. Keep it clean,
keep it orderly. If you expand the malls, it's only going to get worse. The leash law
· s not enforced at all. They litter all over the place, I think it's a disgrace. I have
twice asked for a waste basket at the corner of Cooper and Original Street. The alley
tween City Market and the Durant Mall is atrociously dangerous, it has not, 5o my know-
ledge, been cleaned of snow at any time this year. It is still dangerous. My threat ~s,
there are a lot of people on the town, Some of them are registered to vote, some actually
bother, and none of you are going to get my vote until you keep it clean, keep it nice,
do it and enforce the laws we've got and then I would like to see a mall.
EILEEN TAGGERT: I have lived in Aspen for thirty one years, i owned Uncle Willy's Spirit
House, and I've gone through one hell of a lot in this town. I am anti-mall from the be-
ginning to the en~. I sold my business because I knew it was going to hurt me, with
limited del~iveries and all. On talkback this morning a lady called in who was concerned
about the number of dogs that are being brought down into the mall on leashes and let
loose. They water the trees and so forth. ML Mahoney answered her this morning that
they are going to install a "dog parking lot". Well, shit. We've got a horse parking lot
and now we're going to have a dog parking lot. This whole thing makes me sick. I've been
here longer than any of you, except those of you who were born and raised here. You bette
decide what you are going to do about the car thing. I don' make much sense but it makes
me mad.
BILL MC DONOUGH: I would just like to say that malls may be a good idea and they may not
be a good idea. But you haven't proved you can run the malls now successfully. I think
the businesses here in town generally agree with that. You haven't handled the transporta-
tion system very well. It certainly isn't working. You are not making any effort to pro-
vide parking for the downtown area. Until you can get something that really works and prov~
to us you guys can run amall and run a city, provide a transportation plan, provide trans-
portation for those persons who all of a sudden won't be able to drive any more. Then
I think you are rushing things a little bit. The malls should wait until these things are
taken care of. There should be an election because there is obviously a lot of dissention
and difference of opinion. I don't feel you have a mandate so ask the people that live here
OTTO STUDHALTER: I own the Shaft restaurant in Aspen. I would like to point out something
in Aspen. Aspen is a resort town. We have summer business, we have winter business. In th
winter the people who come to Aspen spend a hell of a lot of money here, not to stand in the
mall. They spend it for the Ski Corp., for their own enjoyment on the mountain to ski and
for their pleasure. I don't see any winter tourist spending time standing around in the
mall. In the summer you see them camping. The people in the mall in the summer are drunks
and hippies. Whatever. The parking... I support the City with my tickets and fines. Just
forget the goddamn malls and get some other things straightened out. I think we should have
a vo~e for it. We are paying a lot of money to the city, I run a big business in this city,
which you spend unwisely. I don't see any enjoyment in any Mall in Aspen right now. I
drive down Main Street with big chuck holes in it. It doesntt make sense to me.
Mayor Standley then closed the Public Hearing.
Mayor Standley then began to read the letters submitted previous to the Public Hearing.
A letter from John and Mary Faulkner, strongly supporting the mall.
Gus Hall~m of Deep Powder Ski, Inc., strongly supporting the mall.
Gary Plumley, Of Grape & Grain, supporting the mall.
There was a comment that one protest from Richard Gilstrap, Glenwood Springs, Colo., was
not read. It was stated that this was never received by either the City Clerk's office or
the City Attorney. It was requested that a copy of this letter be submitted for certifica-
tion, but was not actually submitted.
Mayor Standley then called on City Attorney Stuller to give the alternate courses of action.
The first alternative is to postpone the mall closure proceedings and submit the question
to special election on the question on the earliest date, April 19, 1976. Second is to
terminate the proceedings period an~ not proceed further, this would allow construction on
the present mall as you see fit. One problem with termination is that another resolution
cannot be entertained for these same two streets for the period of one year from the date
of the termination. A Resolution can be adopted, as the third course, determining to pro-
ceed with the street closure under the 1970 Mall Act, and schedule for first reading an
ordinance closing the streets. The first reading date would be February 23, 1976 because
legislation mus~ be introduced only at regular meetings of the City Council. This would be
subject to referendum if a petition were submitted thirty days after adoption.
Councilman De Gregorio asked that if it was decided to follow alternative ~1, which is a
special election, might it be possible to also choose alternative 42, which includes the
further improvement of the existing mall, if the electorate decides they do not want
further expansion. City Attorney Stulter replied that if the decision were a negative
vote against expansion then you could go ahead with improvements on the existing mall.
Councilman Johnson further questioned on the improvement on the existing mall without any
kind of an election, then the whole procedure must be started over again? She further
explained that by doing this, it might eliminate some of the opposition, which states that
the Mall is not adequately maintained or governed. Stuller replied that the problem with
this procedure would be that the Ordinance for Street closure must be considered within 180
days of this Public Hearing. It could not be postponed indefinitely, but could be postponed
for a while. Councilman Johnson inquired about the Council timetable, and what an election
would do to it. The deadline date was repeated as April 19, 1976, and there would still
have to be scheduled for first reading of the Ordinance for Street Closure prior to the
election, if one is held. No financial contracts or obligations may be entered into with-
out satisfying these legal requirements. An election would knock out the proposed spring
construction by delaying the ordering of materials, etc. It was the general consensus by
the councilmembers that probably a mall proposal would win at the polls, and if the spring
construction is deferred because of the election, this would have an incredible impac~ on
the income of the businesses and upon the City. The spring business is not of an enormous
impact, however, the fall business is much more important. Councilman Behrendt feels very
strongly that postponing due to an election the development of the mall will be very costly
business wise. by throwing the construction into the fall.
Citizen Skip Ela stated that in working with a utility company he finds it very difficult
to find adequate parking to do his ]ob. Mayor Standley stated that this discussion was
not relevant and therefore should be discontinued.
Councilman Johnson questioned whether it would be possible to go ahead and improve the
existing malls and hold the election next year, s~nce it is apparent to her that it's cominc
to an election, either by Council's choice or referrendum. Councilman Parry related to
Councilman Behrendt's statement on having the construction during the spring and how the
weather during the spring is so unpredictible and there is no guarantee that the constructi
could be done in time for the summer season. It would be better to come to a vote, and let
the citizens be able to say something about it and do whatever construction possikle that
fall. Councilman Wishart co~mented that the problem of the mall has been going on for over
five years and putting it off isn't going to solve any of the problems no make the decision
any easier. He did no~ advocate putting the question to a vote, and if Kiefer Mendenhall
and the opposing groups can bring it to a referrendum vote, that is due process and only
right. Councilman Parry related that the only way the mall can work is with citizen and
governmental cooperation, working together. The only way ~o get rid of the turmoil is to
bring the question to a vote. Councilman Johnson stated her agreement with this, but she
did express confidence in the plan that has been shown as the current mall proposal.
Councilman De Gregorio made a motion that a combination of alternatives ~1, the election
and ~2, improving the existing mall to read: Postpone proceedings and put the question to
a special election with the stipulation that a defeat of the expansion question would not
in any way disallow improvements on the existing mall.
Nina Johnson thereby seconded the motion made by DeGregorio.
Mayor Standley interjected at this point his feeling that the general consensus of the public
has been to ~'show us what you can do". He strongly advocated going ahead with the mall
and show them what can be done.
De Gregorio modified the motion to read the alternative ~1, and postponing the closing of
the new streets until we go to an election. Nina did not feel this was complete, because
it does not state when the election is taking place. It makes a great deal of difference
whether the election takes place immediately or after something is done with the present
mall. De Gregorlo further amended the motion to read: The election to take place at the
earliest possible date, April 19, 1976. Jenifer Pedersen thereby seconded this amended
motion. Councilman Wishart related that he felt this was all reactive city government.
Councilman Behrendt stated that he thought that possibly the Councils thoughts were not
the thoughts of the electorate.
City Attorney Stuller related that if Council followed Mayor Standley's suggestion and
held the election after the other three blocks were malled off, then the benefit of all
the proceedings to date will be lost. She suggested that the proceedings be ~erminated
to date and a new resolution of intention be introuduced next year. Mayor Standley relate~
that there was still 180 days to have the election and he felt the mall and the proposed
three klocks could be done in that time. Sixty days before the election is held, it must
be announced and the issue defined. Councilman Behrendt was very strongly opposed to
delaying any further than really necessary. This will just throw construction that much
further behind schedule. He strongly advocated the April 19th date as previously stated.
Planner Bill Kane at this time interjected his comments as to some time schedules he felt
Council should know about. The project ~s not in the working drawing stage right now.
The construction documents have not been prepared. This project is not ready to be sub-
mitted to a contractor. Should Council decide to postpone an election until mid-summer,
there would be additional time delays or Ordinance reading, and another Ordinance complete
prior to authcrization for contract documents. All this considered, he advocates the
April 19th date for an election and then go with the fall construction.
Councilman De Gregorlo asked that the motion be re-read by the City Clerk. It was read
as: a motion to accept alternative #1, to subject the question on expansion to the
electorate and postpone proceedings, with the election to take place at the earliest
possible date, which is April 19, 1976. There ~s some question as to whether this motion
itself prohibits further construction on the existing mall, or if it prohibits the workin¢
drawings and other paper work to be continued. Mayor Standley stated that because there
has been no money appropriated to complete the working drawings, it would become a App-
ropriation Ordinance that Council could direct City Attorney Stuller to draw up on the
existing three blocks. This was scheduled to come from a Bond issue, and Mayor Standley
stated that the bond ~ssue can be on the three blocks. Councilman Behrendt questioned
the City Attorney as to whether the question to be put to the voter must be contained in
the motion a~ this time. Ms. Stuller explained that if the election is to be held on
April 19th, the election must be set by Resolution and it must state the general terms of
the election question. The Resolution is not being entertained at this point, just the
motion to put the expansion of two streets to the electorate on April 19th. If that vote
passes, then the Resolution can be discussed. City Attorney explained to Councilman
Behrendt that this would not prohibit any Appropriation Ordinance for the working drawings
it would only prohibit actually closing the streets until these proceedings are completed.
Mayor Standley brought the meeting to question. All in favor of putting the question on
the proposed street closure to an election answer aye. As follows: Councilmembers;
Pedersen, aye; Wishart, aye; DeGregorio, aye; Behrendt, aye, Mayor Standley, aye.
Councilmembers Parry and Johnson opposed. The motion carries 5-2.
Mayor Standley then called on City Attorney Stuller for the discussion of the appropriate
Resolution setting the election date. She related that for the election to take place on
the April 19th date, it must be set by Resolution and must state the date, and the purpose
of the election. She read a proposed statement of the question to be contained and this
was motioned to be accepted by the Councilmembers. All in favor. The motion carried.
There was a motion by Councilman De Gregorio to read Resolution ~5, Series of 1976
into the Record. City Attorney Stuller proceeded to read the Resolution.
RESOLUTION #5
(Series of 1976)
WHEREAS, a public hearing has been conducted on February 16, 1976
to determine whether or not the Aspen Pedestrian Mall shall be extended
all as proposed in Resolution ~39, Series of 1975, and
WHEREAS, the Aspen City Council, after considering the record of
proceedings, and (oral and) written presentations from abutting property
owners and the public at large in favor of, or opposing, objecting to,
or protesting the proposed pedestrian mall, has determined that:
1. All notice requirements prerequisite to said hearing des-
cribed in C.R.S. 1973, Section 31-25-405, The Colorado Public
Mall Act of 1970, have been satisfied and the public hearing
properly conducted, and
2. Written objections and written protests to the establishment
of the proposed pedestrian mall have been filed by owners of
lands abutting the proposed mall, representing not more than
45% of the frontage of the proposed mall, which protest con-
stitutes less than a majority of the frontage.effected and
1963
' ~pecial Meeting/Public Hearing Aspen City Council February 16, 1976 ·
the question of the proposed mall extension need not be sub-
mitted to the electorate for approval.
3. However, the City Council has determined that proceedings shall
be continued, and that the desirability of the mall extension
shall be submitted to the electorate for their approval at the
earliest possible date.
THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ASPEN, COLOP~ADO:
That it does hereby postpone and continue the proceedings of the 1970 Public
Mall Act, and that it does determine that there shall be held a special
election on April 20, 1976, at which the electorate will be asked to consider
the desirability of the proposed mall extensions as they are described in
Resolution 939, Series of 1975.
Councilman DeGregorio motioned to adopt Resolution 95, seconded by Councilman Parry.
All in favor, motion carried.
Motion to adjourn by Councilman Wishart, seconded by Councilman Behrendt.
The meeting adjourned at 10:10.
Kathryn ~. Hauter, City Clerk